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PES 2011 Discussion thread

DarthKebab said:
The beta for me looked quite dark in tone, not sure if this was the same for others, obviously the players look just like 2010 but it has some lovely little touches such as fat Ronaldo using a sarcastic gesture when a team mate did not pass to him and took the shot, players on their knees pleading with the ref for a foul, facial animatioms as well are excellent, seeing a close up of Mikel Arteta grimace then say something to himself made me laugh after he was fouled, you really get some stunning replays which you don't want to skip as it all moves so well.

Gameplay wise compared to the beta as I said, I didn't believe it was possible for it to be as polished as it was, on the beta when control you kind of have to plan ahead your movement as it is not as instant, on this the players keep the ball closer allowing tighter turns and you can feel as if the ball is a ball, there is no invisible barrier keeping the ball close to the player and when you see a nutmeg then you will understand this.



Like I said to Steve at the end of the playtest he just told me to write what I like and I said I would be slaughtered on the forums as there was almost nothing negative, luckily people will be playing on Wednesday though to see for themselves.
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this adds so much to the match atmosphere, i'm very happy :BOP:
 
Darth you should get a free copy from konami for helping them with such a fine review, and you have sure made it a must buy for me but i was sold on the beta so everything else is a much needed bonus for me. Thanks mate.
 
Looking forward to the variety on offer with Master League this year.

I'm especially looking forward to doing what on PES 2010 has offered in pretty much any football game (PES 5 had it to an extent i'd say)

Which is play HOOFBALL with teams like Stoke, Blackburn, Aston Villa and Sunderland etc.. :) :LOL: On pretty much every football game apart from PES 2010 you could get away with playing a nice, pass and move probing game. With the previous pes games stats make a difference, obviously but not enough to make you REALLY think about how you use the ball. Nowhere near enough to think.

"Fuck this, there's no way i can pass with this lot, I'm making like Stoke do and hoofing the ball up to Sidibe and Fuller upfront".

I'll still pick teams like Villarreal, Valencia etc.. if i want to play nice flowing football of course. Better still bring someone like Malaga to the top like i tried to do last year (or try and survive relegation :lol:) Or go to teams in Italy for the tactics. But like in F1 games where something which you would perceive as boring (watching cars go round a track 70 times) When you controlling the players hoofing the ball up field it just so fun :) .

Probably because it's realsitic and it makes a change from passing all the time :)
 
Jimmy G-Force said:
The ML since its revamp in PES 2010 is phenomenal. And trying to do it on a shoe-string budget, starting off in the Coca Cola Championship with a lesser team is a real challenge. Its all about trying to balance your budget, gaining sponsorships and trying to improve your set-up. But its a long hard road, which makes it the satisfying. It took my Boro team 2 seasons to get into the Premiership, and even then only on the last day. The season before I got a lucky FA Cup run and reached the final before Liverpool battered me. I then failed to win promotion on the last day, heartbreaking but typical Boro.

As the next season started, I couldnt believe it when I saw I'd qualified by the Europa Cup by finishing runner-up in the F.A. Cup, as Liverpool qualified for the Champs league finishing 2nd in the Premier League. It was an brilliant feeling. Even more so, in my last Europa Cup League game I needed to win. I was 2-1 at halftime, and decided to go 3-4-3 and brought on one of my kids from my Youth Academy. His stats were shocking, 54 rating overall, but he was 6 foot 9 and I gave him his pro contract based on his size and possible ariel threat. It was his debut, he scored after 5 minutes, very comical, his first touch was so poor a cross bounced straight off his shin and rolled in with the keeper wrong footed. He then won a header to set up an assist. We won, and on his debut he was the hero at Riverside, his parents were in the stadium and everything, even his Gran, oh was she proud. A debut for Boro, and in European football, a dream come true for the kid.

I played his again as sub in his next game as he deserved it. But he was shit, like his stats and never played for me again. But, nobody could take that magical European night away from him. :LOL:

The day Emnes learned his First Touch Player card was a day I'll never forget. Played Arsenal who battered me, but somehow the game was 1-1. Last minute Adam Johnson whipped in a low ball drilled into the box. Emnes showed his newly aquired First Touch by taking the ball in pure Bergkamp fashion, killing it dead with one foot, then rolling it into the bottom corner to seal a memorable win. I trained him on that Player Card, and with that win it was £1 million well spent.

Then on top of all that PES 2011 has a new revamped BAL. You can lose your life on that mode.
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Haha that reminds me of something i did on ML on PES10. I signed the big Brazilian defender 'Dante' from a team in Germany (game was patched) and ended up playing him upfront in my Catania team, as i lacked any form of physicality up front. He scored on his debut and i believe it was the winner.

PES is the only game where i will bother to change tactics in-game as i feel it's actually worth it. With Fifa, i'd just use the quick tactic and increase the slider to more attacking. I never felt like actually changing team shape or anything would have an effect on the game.

After that initial game, i think Dante made a few more emergency striker appearances, but he was a much better defender than he was striker. :P
 
ono5985 said:
Haha that reminds me of something i did on ML on PES10. I signed the big Brazilian defender 'Dante' from a team in Germany (game was patched) and ended up playing him upfront in my Catania team, as i lacked any form of physicality up front. He scored on his debut and i believe it was the winner.

PES is the only game where i will bother to change tactics in-game as i feel it's actually worth it. With Fifa, i'd just use the quick tactic and increase the slider to more attacking. I never felt like actually changing team shape or anything would have an effect on the game.

After that initial game, i think Dante made a few more emergency striker appearances, but he was a much better defender than he was striker. :P
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:LOL: He's not as good as Lacina Traoré from my Cluj team :WORSHIP: He's 6"8. He could barley move. But he was a MONSTER in the Air, I love target men on that game. Soren Larsen was a great option for my Villarreal side with all my small players needing a physical presence :)
 
Darth thxs 4 all ur responses man, appreciate it big time!!

1 quick question.. How was the game graphically? A slight step up from last year or quite a leap?
I know in the online beta wide cam was kinda jaggy and certainly not as good as pes 10.. I'm guessing they fixed that for the final code?
 
mr_man said:
I'm just gonna look over the fact that PES 10 had the most horrid animations ever seen in a footie game, barely any collision detection, and a few other niggles..

The passes felt unnaturally driven with no swerve and sometimes little control over where they went. Defending in that game consisted of 10 players huddled around the center portion of the penalty box waiting for the ball to land from a cross.

Konami responded to the abuse of fake shots by removing the animation itself all together; the shots themselves felt slow and heavy and not only were the keepers borderline mental but apart from parrying shots they also liked to stay behind the goal posts during shots in the worst of cases!

The defenders and unskilled players were handicapped by having an extra animation where they would do this weird foot drag with the ball every time they did a turn.

And the button delay what is up with that, I've had so many wasted opportunities when the player refused to hit the ball mid air.. maybe he was lacking the animation all together...

Go on, bring up one good thing about the game that ain't individuality..
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Bear with me as this is a mammoth post! But you asked me to give you reasons, here they are.

I'm not going to deny that PES 2010 has its flaws but you're going over the top and entering extreme territory, casting aside balance. It sounds to me like you're either not very good at the game or you haven't taken enough time to master it.

Here is an earlier post of mine that details the key reasons why PES is not only preferred by me over FIFA, but ones which make it a top game in its own right. And yes it does include player individuality, one of the key strengths of the game (and ANY sports game for that matter) that you do not seem to be taking seriously, something which is even more pronounced in 2010 than it is in the previous versions. Even FIFA fans acknowledge this, but you see it as part of an “abortion”. Even Darth in his response thought the game was ok but felt the animations spoilt it for him. Doesn't really sound like an “abortion” to me, and he's the one you that you directed the question towards!


Once people can manage to get past the outdated rigid animations, they'll see with extended play that PES is a far deeper, richly rewarding football game than FIFA; the latter's gloss and animations hide a deeply flawed game that doesn't play anything like real football.

AI and tactics - FIFA's AI is very poor, the movement of the players in general and the defense. There is no midfield. Pressing and physical jostling are overdone. Most games descend into through ball, 1 on 1 and score, whereas in PES I can score a million different types of goals, the satisfaction of scoring is unrivaled. PES' players position themselves better, make better runs and behave like football players should behave. Of course both games can be exploited but PES is better. I can set up my team to play anyway I want with all the tactical options in the menus, the sliders actually make a difference, the man marking and player index's all work and have an effect on the mentality and types of runs players make. FIFA has limited effect because the AI is so poor.

Player individuality and stat based gameplay - This is what PES is known for, I can hardly feel differences in FIFA players whether playing on assisted, semi or manual.

Ball physics - PES has heavy, weighted and realistic ball physics. FIFA feels like you are kicking a balloon.

Ball control, first touch, dribbling system - The combination of ball physics, player stats, the d-pad dribbling system introduced in PES 09 all make the ball control realistic. A lot of people think it's sluggish, its not. It's simulating how players would take touches to set themselves up for shots or to bring the ball under control. Even in 16 directions it is still better than FIFA's hurried style of dribbling, the 360 movement does not compensate for this. PES is more realistic in this sense.
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You mentioned that it has the worst animations ever in a football game. Again that is going to extremes, they are rigid yes, but they are not all bad. There are a lot of good animations in there if you look closely enough, which as I've already suspected you do not seem to be doing. As Klashman says a lot of it is to do with the transitions.

When you talk about response times and button delay and foot drag, here is how someone else put it, probably better than me:


Curdstar – moderator wenb

People talk about button lag but I have yet to truly experience any of note, apart from in that opening exchange woth the Canary Islands player I have already mentioned. If this is demo code I personally coud do without anything quicker regards response times. Y'see once you learn to appreciate that the game is no longer about lightning quick reflexes exclusively, you begin to understand the joy that appears to be PES2010.

R2 dribble is the key. I can't emphasise enough how important Seabass and co. have made this one mechanic. The game is no longer about long sprints into space, but instead it is about patience to the full, and R2 dribble buys you seconds you thought you never had and never did have before in a PES game. Where before we would see space and sprint towards it, PES2010 rewards the player who actually turns towards goal and tries to tempt your opposition into being rash in the challenge. Just like real football!
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The game is trying to simulate how a player would need to take touches to control the ball in a variety of situations, adjust his body position, incorporating player stats and balls physics into controlling the ball. It is not flawed, it is hardcore. I understand it may not be to everyone's tastes, but for those who have mastered it, it is a REVELATION. It is not terrible programming just because you cannot get used to it. You have to appreciate that it CAN be learnt and mastered. You say the game might have lacked an animation that prevented you from doing something, no offense but it was probably you that lacked the skill. It's contextually based, you and the ball need to be in the correct positions, to do certain things. Using super cancel can also help at times to “free” up the movement when it seems to be on the rails. The defenders and unskilled players understandably are more sluggish at controlling the ball, just like in real life! If you want defenders with good ball control, try Lucio and Chivu, they reflect their stats quite well (e.g. dribbling the ball out of defence and free kick accuracy)

The shooting is again a combination of player stats and ball physics. Scholes does not have a slow and heavy shot compared to say Gary Neville, but he will if the ball and his body are in certain positions. I admit the keepers can be faulty, but they can also be lifesavers.

The passes likewise incorporate the stats and the ball physics. You have some measure of control but a lot of it is stat driven. You can feel the crispness and accuracy of a pass-master like Xavi more than, say, Nigel de Jong, who has awful short passing stats. Collision detection can definitely be improved (and has in 2011 to a massive degree :)), but I can still feel the body balances working especially if you position your players well and time your tackling.

You need to play around with the deep tactical options, different types of man marking, using the different player indexes, tweaking the strategies and team style modifiers as well as learning to defend as a unit, when to press at the right times, when to back off, when to hold your position and simply use your body balance etc.. This is extremely useful when facing those who exploit the game online (any game can be exploited no matter how good it is, even 2011 as I've experienced in the MLO beta). Of course you need to have a good formation that suits your team and the players you select. It's a very sweeping statement to say that :

Defending in that game consisted of 10 players huddled around the center portion of the penalty box waiting for the ball to land from a cross.
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You probably have your team pressing and compactness set too high. Experiment. Again it suggests you haven't delved into the game deeply enough.

There are different types of fake shots, you need to experiment with the skills system, the R2/RT close control and dribble as well as the varied shimmies and jinks that you can do; some advanced ones only being available to certain skilled players.

A balanced view of the game would be that even if you didn't like it and it wasn't to your tastes, even if you HATED it, you'd at least be able to recognize a lot of its STRENGTHS; after all Konami were laying the foundation for 2011 as well. They didn't just develop 2011 overnight, a lot of good stuff is in 2010 (and to a lesser extent 2009) that makes it over, as well as the awesome new stuff in 2011.
 
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rickyricc said:
Darth thxs 4 all ur responses man, appreciate it big time!!

1 quick question.. How was the game graphically? A slight step up from last year or quite a leap?
I know in the online beta wide cam was kinda jaggy and certainly not as good as pes 10.. I'm guessing they fixed that for the final code?
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Just the same looking really, but the animations are what set it apart.

I was playing with Wide cam, I think I had the Beta camera set to normal long and it was the broadcast camera by defualt, it wasn't an issue at all in what I played because on the beta the ball seemed to move too fast for the camera at times, but its fixed now.
 
I played the PES Xbox-version last years ( and I will keep doing that ), but for an early demo I just dusted off my playstation 3 and connected it to the internet again to get a PSN-plus account.
So the demo for me as well on wednesday.

For people who are interested I will write my opinion about the demo overhere :)
 
For you guys that will be playing the demo on the 8th, FUCK YOU ALL!!




Kidding, please, go nuts. Please record some gameplay and let us the people who need to wait for the 15th see. I'm willing to kill to get to play the demo today.
 
I am looking forward to 2011. I picked up 2010 a few weeks ago and if they can get it so you have a bit more freedom of range with your players they will have a winner. I would like a bit more control when running with the ball. It does seem you can only move in 16 directions not a full 360. At any rate while I find the game a it more difficult to play than FIFA it is more fun. At least the switching between players makes more sense.
 
btw when you make an account on the PS3 can you transfer them from console to console via the internet like you can do witht he xbox 360

e.g. recover gamertag?
 
Klash, you make individual user accounts, I think, and then you can sign them in to the PSN accounts that you make online. I tried making a UK account via the XMB/PSN store, but I'm not sure if you can select the UK locale through that method if you don't live in the UK. Try this website instead:

Create new PSN account
 
tc811 said:
Klash, you make individual user accounts, I think, and then you can sign them in to the PSN accounts that you make online. I tried making a UK account via the XMB/PSN store, but I'm not sure if you can select the UK locale through that method if you don't live in the UK. Try this website instead:

Create new PSN account
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ok, i don't have a ps3 yet, if i make one now, do i simply download it when i get one?

if i put the PS+ on it, will it say with my account whatever PS3 i use?
 
You don't download anything, you just create your account and log on in the 'network' section of the XMB. So go ahead and make one now.

As for PS+, it's tied to an e-mail address that you'll need to provide, so it will be linked to that e-mail.

EDIT: Klash, my mistake, I wasn't exactly sure of the process. You'll also need to create a new user account if you're on a friend's console. You won't be able to login to PSN using that PS+ account using an existing PS3 user account unless it's a new user.
 
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tc811 said:
You don't download anything, you just create your account and log on in the 'network' section of the XMB. So go ahead and make one now.

As for PS+, it's tied to an e-mail address that you'll need to provide, so it will be linked to that e-mail.

EDIT: Klash, my mistake, I wasn't exactly sure of the process. You'll also need to create a new user account if you're on a friend's console. You won't be able to login to PSN using that PS+ account using an existing PS3 user account unless it's a new user.
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ok, well since i have nobody i can quickly borrow a PS3 off looks I'm spending 100/120 pound on one

Better fucking arrive by wednsday!
 
Do you remember the 'middle shooting' star that some players had back in the PS2 days of PES? That was the ability to hit a long range shot with no swerve or top/back-spin. Gerrard used to have it for one. That's pretty much what Ronaldo does in that video. It's nothing new.
 
I think "middle shooting" just made the player when AI controled more prone to risking long shots... nothing to do with swerve or power.
 
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