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PES 2011 Discussion thread

Ronaldinho_23 said:
the bicycle kick is real yes, but

4-5 bicycle kick for match?????

oh my god, tsuaba only make 1 for match...


a lot of videos about bicyclekicks in pes2011...



and another thing:

1,2,3,4 rainbows continues????? for god's love.....
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No such thing as 4/5 bicycle kicks a match. They are rare, just because you've seen it 4/5 times doesn't mean anything, since some people have played more than 300 matches.
 
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Jimmy G-Force said:
Not really, think how many games have been played. Also, I'd much prefer it executed the correct animation in-line with the situation. Rather than trying to head a ball that was waist high like PES 2010. Players need a high level of technique for the most part for this type of shot to be attempted. It's no coincidence most of these attempts have been by world class player's, or players with high technique.
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and why don't they try to do a normal volley? Always the bycicle -.-

>> unrealistic...

if there is nobody with me I would do a volley cause it has more precision than a bycicle


SO how many volley goals have you seen?! There are more bycicles than volley!!!
 
Thypari said:
and why don't they try to do a normal volley? Always the bycicle -.-

>> unrealistic...

if there is nobody with me I would do a volley cause it has more precision than a bycicle


SO how many volley goals have you seen?! There are more bycicles than volley!!!
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I haven't scored or suffered any bicycle kick goal. Played 100+ matches.

The only volley'ish goal I scored was one similar to the Villa one in the trailer.
 
JimboPL said:
Is it me or the bicycle kicks on all these 2011 vids are performed too quickly? The animations of it are too quick. I have to watch the replay to see what he's actually done. It doesn't look like this in real football. You see player preparing and kicking the ball.
YouTube - Van Basten - bicycle kick
Click to expand...

thanks for posting this goal! I clearly remember seeing it for the first time when i was still young....and still had hair.
 
PATe.Arminia said:
You know this is not the problem here. The problem is that those bugged tricks can destroy the whole online mode, if idiots use them to beat you this must be fucking frustrating.
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Online will always be destroyed by people who exploit weaknesses in the game. That's where the buddy list comes in.
Find a group of people that you like playing....its all you need.
That is, if you are not interested in rankings.
 
Thypari said:
and why don't they try to do a normal volley? Always the bycicle -.-

>> unrealistic...

if there is nobody with me I would do a volley cause it has more precision than a bycicle


SO how many volley goals have you seen?! There are more bycicles than volley!!!
Click to expand...

You have nothing to worry about, honestly. I have never seen a proper Bycycle Kick in over 130 games. It's situation based, for the most part you must have your back towards goal in order to attempt it. The fact people are posting these goals is because it is a rarity.
 
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Expander said:
Do me a favour please,take a good look at fifa10 were the goal frame and net isnt proportionate to the size of the pitch or the players,and the ball is deliberatly oversized because of the default camera view and angle.

I dont know why you guys make such a fuss about keepers its almost like a obsession.Its all about game balance,with fifa being a example of were there intentionally superhumanised otherwise most games would turn into a goal fest with cricket score lines.Ive played alot of fifa this year and the keepers make daft mistakes and blunders much like pes,its just not highlighted as much as it is in pes.

This is a BETA,and i stress beta which is probably as old as the month of june and i bet my bottom dollar(im not american)the version sitting in the laps of the game journos out there currently is on a completely different plain.

Your talking about a collective group of developers that have experience that pans 20 years of making football games,do you not think even pes productions can see the bugs,flaws and how the keepers are prone to not picking up the ocassional loose ball or flapping behind the sticks because they can.

Ive played a lot of pes2010 and blue samuri and i really get the impression a lot of the points directed towards goal keeping are quite hysterical.There much better then pes6 were they never came off there line and were the defence was like a teabag and clumbersome so the keeper ai was deliberatly notched up.

If it isnt tricks its goalkeepers,am im pretty sure once everyone gets some time with the covering and tracking defensive system those trick whores will be either bundled off the ball or dispensed with a well timed crunching slide tackle.

Weve all been burned a bit over the last three years but lets not start throwing the water out of the bath because the babys crying,im sure pes2011 in its finished state will be fine.

Some of you really make me laugh,if actually you understood how difficult and hard it is to make a video game and how much work goes into games like pes and fifa and how hard it is to simulate the sport but also adhere to the fact thats its a game and has to have good gameplay you would be a little bit more open minded.

Pes6 was good but it had issues,its funny how rose tinted nostalgia and the fact that playing the game for long periods(years)starts to make the mind paper over the cracks because you have a comfort zone with the game and the brain knows the right patterns and how to avoid the problematic areas.

Ive been very critical of pes over the course of the last three years and ive also played alot of fifa this gen but that hasnt stopped me from realising theres still a genius in pes(even in this generation of consoles)that fifa will always lack however good the animation,goal keepers and control mechanics become.

Pes6 is a world away from the football games of today,its been superseeded.

I couldnt give a rats arse about goal net depth,the size of the ball,or what shape the nets are,i just want a solid balanced game with great gameplay to boot,that looks reasonably fluid and requires skill to play and were you have to use your brain to actually score and defend,with clever off the ball ai,free control mechanics with a little bit of that pes productions alchemy thrown in,and for me pes2011 fits the bill.

Lets not forget fifa has awful free-kicks,some of the worst replays ive ever seen in a game(that clip and are choppy at best),is only good on the xbox360 because the ps3 version is vastly inferior and the pc versions null and void,the in-ability to save replays,a horrible heading system thats almost non existent,to many cut scenes,a menu interface thats like reading a jjr tolkien novel,planet no gravity physics with players that skate and bounce around the pitch.
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Sorry for having an opinion. :OOOH:

You don't need to point out Fifa's flaws to me. I hate Fifa 10.

The point i made about PES6 isn't blinkered nostalgia. I play PES 6 regularly on the PC (patched) and i play PES10 regularly on the PC so i think i'm in a good enough position to make a judgement on the goalkeepers. The actual goalkeeping animations on PES6 are more realistic in the sense that they replicate what an actual goalkeepers does. The nets feel the right size, and it just feels right.

PES feels right in parts, but it also feels wrong. Scoring isn't that satisfying because of the reasons i have already stated. Like it or not, it's an important part of the game, as scoring should be the very best feeling in the game. It isn't, mainly because the keepers are poor.

I understand how difficult it is for developers to get everything right, but that shouldn't mean we are forbidden from talking about where they could improve.

Hysterically outraging at anybody who does this is frankly laughable. Anyway, as you were...
 
ono5985 said:
Sorry for having an opinion. :OOOH:

You don't need to point out Fifa's flaws to me. I hate Fifa 10.

The point i made about PES6 isn't blinkered nostalgia. I play PES 6 regularly on the PC (patched) and i play PES10 regularly on the PC so i think i'm in a good enough position to make a judgement on the goalkeepers. The actual goalkeeping animations on PES6 are more realistic in the sense that they replicate what an actual goalkeepers does. The nets feel the right size, and it just feels right.

PES feels right in parts, but it also feels wrong. Scoring isn't that satisfying because of the reasons i have already stated. Like it or not, it's an important part of the game, as scoring should be the very best feeling in the game. It isn't, mainly because the keepers are poor.

I understand how difficult it is for developers to get everything right, but that shouldn't mean we are forbidden from talking about where they could improve.

Hysterically outraging at anybody who does this is frankly laughable. Anyway, as you were...
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Apologies i was on my 28 day shaving cycle yesterday and stirred up quite a hornets nest.

I personally always felt the player models on the ps2 looked like dwarfs or school boys,the nets where like hockey nets and the ball like a beach ball,i guess its a question of taste.

For me the satisfaction of scoring comes from good build up play,hitting someone on the counter or skinning a defender,not how much the net reacts to the ball or the animation of the man behind the sticks but we are all different.

Im old school so prefer gameplay over cosmetics.

As for keepers for me Iss got the balance perfect.
 
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Expander said:
Is the full defensive system in the beta then rom?i dont know i wasnt choosen and theres conflicting reports on this.

Just trying to get people to look at things with more of a open mind rather then taking the standard negative outlook that the games broken,konami dont care and there trying to dupe everyone.

Its to easy to be a armchair pundit without looking at both sides of the coin.I know that both ea and konami both copy but fifa10 is a blatant rip off of the old iss/perfect striker series in my opinion,even dave ruttler has openely admitted how fond it was of that series.Nothing wrong with taking a template konami are unwilling to recycle,its worked,look how well regarded fifa now is.Maybe konami are taking some of that back and re-engineering those old concepts in pes2011.

Like youve said before theres always a bit of overlap because its football but i played the iss series for years,still do and the similarities are uncanny.The thing is if fifa was so amazing,why are so many converts checking the news stream daily,because how ever technically good fifa becomes theres something missing and its alchemy rom,something that pes at is best gives you,a secret ingredient that goes well beyond cosmetics and ea just cant capture it.
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Where did Dave Rutter talk about Perfect Striker? I talked to Gary Paterson about ISS/Perfect Striker and he needed a bit of memory jogging before saying something casually dismissive. Certainly he isn't influenced by it at all. I had to point out the WC penalty system was essentially in that, except with stick feathering.

More pertinently, while I agree with much of the sentiment of the armchair and alchemy paragraphs I don't know what they're addressing? Nobody is in here lauding FIFA over PES, nor has anyone ever implied that one company nicks things from the other without reply. It's a topic that has been done to death for years - if anything I was trying to counter the imbalance implied in saying EA nick things from Konami!

There are a lot of FIFA people in these threads, sure - a lot of them joined this PES forum because they/we were PES people to begin with and it looks like the series is coming good at last. It doesn't mean that they're approaching the game with confirmatory bias or are too short sighted to tell the difference between a beta an a full title; far from it. I've been on plenty of betas and I'm sure everyone here has either tried one or understands the nature of them. An open mind is one that reports any issues honestly and openly to double check that Konami are addressing them, rather than skirting around problems entirely and not reporting them or uderlining their potential significance because surely Konami will have already fixed them.
 
Expander said:
Apologies i was on my 28 day shaving cycle yesterday and stirred up quite a hornets nest.

I personally always felt the player models on the ps2 looked like dwarfs or school boys,the nets where like hockey nets and the ball like a beach ball,i guess its a question of taste.

For me the satisfaction of scoring comes from good build up play,hitting someone on the counter or skinning a defender,not how much the net reacts to the ball or the animation of the man behind the sticks but we are all different.

Im old school so prefer gameplay over cosmetics.

As for keepers for me Iss got the balance perfect.
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Fair do's mate :))

I agree, the most important aspect is the gameplay. I suppose if they nail this this year, we'll see other improvements next year. I can live with that.
 
Expander said:
Apologies i was on my 28 day shaving cycle yesterday and stirred up quite a hornets nest.

I personally always felt the player models on the ps2 looked like dwarfs or school boys,the nets where like hockey nets and the ball like a beach ball,i guess its a question of taste.

For me the satisfaction of scoring comes from good build up play,hitting someone on the counter or skinning a defender,not how much the net reacts to the ball or the animation of the man behind the sticks but we are all different.

Im old school so prefer gameplay over cosmetics.

As for keepers for me Iss got the balance perfect.
Click to expand...

gameplay always comes before cosmetics. With regards to the animations, when they are not done right they tend to lower the experience (to me at least). I just cant understand Konami, they used to have the animations spot on in the older versions, but got it all wrong in the current gen.

What can i say, i'm an animation freak
 
romagnoli said:
Where did Dave Rutter talk about Perfect Striker? I talked to Gary Paterson about ISS/Perfect Striker and he needed a bit of memory jogging before saying something casually dismissive. Certainly he isn't influenced by it at all. I had to point out the WC penalty system was essentially in that, except with stick feathering.

More pertinently, while I agree with much of the sentiment of the armchair and alchemy paragraphs I don't know what they're addressing? Nobody is in here lauding FIFA over PES, nor has anyone ever implied that one company nicks things from the other without reply. It's a topic that has been done to death for years - if anything I was trying to counter the imbalance implied in saying EA nick things from Konami!

There are a lot of FIFA people in these threads, sure - a lot of them joined this PES forum because they/we were PES people to begin with and it looks like the series is coming good at last. It doesn't mean that they're approaching the game with confirmatory bias or are too short sighted to tell the difference between a beta an a full title; far from it. I've been on plenty of betas and I'm sure everyone here has either tried one or understands the nature of them. An open mind is one that reports any issues honestly and openly to double check that Konami are addressing them, rather than skirting around problems entirely and not reporting them or uderlining their potential significance because surely Konami will have already fixed them.
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This is turning into a q and a session but i guess i brought it all on myself.

Dave ruttler did a interview with IGN in which he said he remembers how good the animation was in iss on the n64 and how it took his breath away for the time,he stated the gameplay was naff but hes not going to admit it openly is he.Iss on the n64 was the first football game to take advantage of analog control and the analog stick as nintendo pioneered it with the advent of the n64 on the home console market.It used a 360 degree analog dribbling system with player inertia that also encompassed semi-assisted 360 degree short passing,manual long passing,crossing and shooting that was power and pressure sensitive as well as directional,being both stat based and user defined.It was well ahead of its time and has only been bettered or matched with the advent of fifa10,the similarities of the two games passing and movement system is uncanny and fifa10 mirrors it heavily,although you had a greater degree of ball control and a manual aftertouch system in iss on the n64 as well as a better headering system.You could pull back on the stick to elevate crosses,long passes and shots,and if you pulled the stick back and pressed the shot button you could chip the keeper and hit a manual lofted chip pass,pulling forwards on the stick allowed you to hit over the ball and produce a lower cross,long pass or shot.

Perfect striker was the japanese counterpart of the western version of ISS by majorA and was more refined and simulated playing faster because of the differences of the pal and ntsc formats at the time.Pes or the iss games by we productions were different,although they shared the same tech and core,they were more d-pad orientated and 8 directional with the gameplay mechanics being more automated and having more of a focus on short passing.

Its a well documented mis-conception that the ISS series by majorA were more arcade based games,when in-fact they were relatively accessible but took weeks to really get a hold of,and months if not years to really master.The animation system,sheer variety of player reactions and the ability to not only have full and total control of the players and ball has never been bettered in my opinion,you could shoulder barge,push players over,block runs,underarm and overarm goalie throws along with hundreds of other fantastic touches.Iss also had continous play on throw-ins and set plays as well as visible linesman and referees.This series gave you total freedom and total control.

As for the beta maybe with hindsight i went about that the wrong way but like you rom i to play fifa to and enjoy its strengths.

When it comes to the alchemy of pes on the ps2 and Iss on the n64,im talking about a perfect equilibrium in the ai and phsycology of these games that meant things didnt happen in the same way twice,or crucially you didnt behave in the same way in the same situation twice.They were games that had broken free from there binery roots and came gloriously to life.

Fifa just doesnt have this its ai is to mechanical and maths sub routine.Forget anything majorA produced after perfect striker3 on the ps2 as Jikkyou world soccer 2002 and ISS3 on the ps2 and gamecube were rubbish,stripped of all there depth and control,when everything prior to these games was sublime.

Now im a pes man first and foremost but that doesnt blinker my take on the past or the reality that pes up until now has been very automated,d-pad orientated and largely stat based,when now im finally happy to see konami are bringing back alot of there own concepts of old back to the table with pes2011 and beyond.Thats not to say there exactly the same but that old DNA is finally back again and we will all benefit with a vastly superior game.
 
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Animation is what I think that need more improvement and based from the gameplay videos of Pro Evo 2011 it left me unimpressed. Need to play the demo though to get the better picture of the improvements made.
 
@Expander

My point with the alchemy bit wasn't that I disagree or don't understand what you mean - I do, and PES 2011 has it in abundance; just that it seemed like you were saying it in response to something that I didn't see crop up in this thread.

Sorry to be contrarian but why wouldn't Rutter admit ISS had non-naff gameplay? Didn't he say he played a lot of PES and didn't like FIFA? Certainly Gary Paterson has praised PES in interviews; ISS Pro Evo 2 almost screwed up his final year at uni! It was ISS that he wasn't so keen on.
 
thats the Ugliest bicycle kick animation ive ever seen... wow how hard is it to make a decent animation ? heck, take the one from pes 6 because its better than that.
 
JimboPL said:
Is it me or the bicycle kicks on all these 2011 vids are performed too quickly? The animations of it are too quick. I have to watch the replay to see what he's actually done. It doesn't look like this in real football. You see player preparing and kicking the ball.
YouTube - Van Basten - bicycle kick
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I think you've touched on a very important point here, and identified one of the major flaws with Pro Evo's animations.

They are too fast, so even when the animation is actually good (and when you look at them on replays they are miles better than FIFA's), they are let down by the speed at which they are carried out.

Also, thanks for posting such a beautiful goal in this thread. Van Basten, amazing.
 
both of it didn't look quite like him. PES make JT looks like he just wake up from his sleep. LOL. in FIFA he look lot younger though
 
Again there's a lack of shoulders on the players for the 3rd year running. The skin textures do look nice in FIFA though.
 
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I think the face in PES looks better but textures (hope I sad it right)in FIFA for me are much better, looks more like real skin.
 
wan_d7 said:
both of it didn't look quite like him. PES make JT looks like he just wake up from his sleep. LOL.
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Which is what John Terry looks like most of the time in real life.;)

@ all the people moaning about bicycle kicks and rainbow flicks. Here's my experience of the above after playing about 50 matches in the beta:

1 bicycle kick attempted (unsuccessful).
0 rainbow flicks attempted by me or the opposition.

Calm down, there's nothing to worry about.
 
I've not seen any bicycle kicks connect with the ball, so the frequency is not a problem (the animation is balls though, there's no winding up or sense of heft to the player as you can see in the bids). I have had a number of rainbows done against me now though - generally in pairs.

The most pressing issue for me based on today's play is how players can just pass through other players. It's so frustrating as someone who generally tries to build on solid defensive play to see a packed defence just get cut apart by the most basic forward passes. It's that general indifference to a loose ball that's responsible. I really hope that's one of the things they're fixing.

What does everyone have their pressing set to? I seem to be having no joy whether on 13 or 9.
 
Mine is set to 10, I like to stand off the opponent when they get closer to my penalty area and make them think twice about that pass if you get what I mean.
 
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