PES 2011 Demo impressions

[martynneale]

Actually an epic fail here, as our national past time, and 1/3 or our major sports is baseball. One would be hard pressed to call that an action sport.

It really helps no one to tell everyone what game was the 'purists' game. Loads of Pro-Evo junkies switched to Fifa (including myself) because they consider freedom of movement and manual controls to be just as important to pure football as everything else. And most of us will come back based on what game is best this year. I happen to love the demo, and am looking forward to the Fifa demo as well. What's the point of insulting Fifa fans as 'non-purists' when both games clearly had their problems last year?

Baseball is an action sport if ever there was one! How does it compare to cricket then? Three strikes and you are out? You could easily leave a hundred balls in cricket no problem!

The problems which Fifa had were mainly culturally caused - the problems which pes had were down to programming faults rather than creative issues imho.

The argument which I have developed at great length on the fifa forums is that there are philosophical differences at EA between the European and American schools of thought and the American school has won out - hence the similarity of fifa 10 to ice hockey to my eyes. Don't believe me play some nhl games of the mid 1990s (legally) on an emulator then play fifa 10. Also check out the rantings of UDlawman on the forum - he is the statistical embodiment of the difference between the US and European/British mentalities of sports.

Look let me tell you there is a Phd in this one!

 

[klashman69]

The argument which I have developed at great length on the fifa forums is that there are philosophical differences at EA between the European and American schools of thought and the American school has won out - hence the similarity of fifa 10 to ice hockey to my eyes. Don't belive me play some nhl games of the mid 1990s (legally) on an emulator then play fifa 10. Also check out the rantings of UDlawman on the forum - he is the statistical embodiment of the difference between the US and European/British mentalities of sports. !

It's not that deep Marty . It's just EA dub the game down to make it action packed for casuals that's all. Most of the EA teams are from Europe and other football mad countries!

You don't have to know about ice skating to know that fast football is great for casuals That's obvious man . The top men at EA (higher than rutter) etc..) Only think with their wallets and not about the quality of their game. They see the casual market as far more profitable that the hardcore market (manual vs assisted!). So they dub it down and make it faster for casuals.

I agree with your technical criticisms of FIFA, they are pretty much spot on but this Ice skating thing, really WTF!

 

[martynneale]

It's not that deep Marty . It's just EA dub the game down to make it action packed for casuals that's all. Most of the EA teams are from Europe and other football mad countries!

You don't have to know about ice skating to know that fast football is great for casuals That's obvious man . The top men at EA (higher than rutter) etc..) Only think with their wallets and not about the quality of their game. They see the casual market as far more profitable that the hardcore market (manual vs assisted!). So they dub it down and make it faster for casuals.

I agree with your technical criticisms of FIFA, they are pretty much spot on but this Ice skating thing, really WTF!

nice one klash. This one could go deep to the heart of EA - secret midnight rendezvous between the fifa and nhl teams then a clandestine code swap on a secret server lol.

No you are right I agree with you the technical problems with fifa are massive and I think they are hidden by fanboys who try to brainwash casual gamers.

 

[mfmaxpower]

Recognising cultural influences and being a racist are two different things my friend - you need to be able to distinguish the two.

I have spent the last year making constructive criticisms and insightful observations about fifa but unfortunately sensible voices are drowned out on the fifa forums by the heavily biased and intolerant people who post on those forums. My 20 years worth of gaming experience tells me that pes is a better simulation of football than fifa - and most of the knowledgeable gamers on the forums say the same.

Yes they are different, but it's a fine line, and it's quite easy to disguise racism with intellectual cultural observations. Frequently, what matters most is intent - without facts or evidence to support your statements, both of you casually derided aspects of a game, or in your case an entire game, because of a company's nationality, with little intent on helping progress the discussion.

Again, 20 years of experience doesn't make you right. Yes, PES is a better sim of football than FIFA, but that was never the issue. The issue is how you go about making your point. What is more likely, that FIFA misses the fundamentals of football because EA is an American company, or because it makes more money by targeting casual gamers? We can't stop EA from being an American company, or even from being influenced by America, but we can help EA realize they can make a quality football game and not turn off casual gamers.

I agree, you have made insightful observations and done well pointing-out many of FIFA's shortcomings, but your criticisms on the FIFA forums were far from constructive, and that's why you got banned. Blaming a game on EA's cultural background isn't constructive, especially when you offer little in way of realistic remedies, because EA will always be American. Constantly creating threads and posts hammering on about how FIFA is just hockey on grass, is also not constructive when you've posted the same thing over and over again, and know nothing is going to come of it other than irrational arguments and flame fests.

It's not that deep Marty . It's just EA dub the game down to make it action packed for casuals that's all. Most of the EA teams are from Europe and other football mad countries!

You don't have to know about ice skating to know that fast football is great for casuals That's obvious man . The top men at EA (higher than rutter) etc..) Only think with their wallets and not about the quality of their game. They see the casual market as far more profitable that the hardcore market (manual vs assisted!). So they dub it down and make it faster for casuals.

I agree with your technical criticisms of FIFA, they are pretty much spot on but this Ice skating thing, really WTF!

Exactly. And the sooner you realize this the sooner you can actually be helpful in providing feedback.

 

[Morientes]

I have spent the last year making constructive criticisms and insightful observations about fifa but unfortunately sensible voices are drowned out on the fifa forums by the heavily biased and intolerant people who post on those forums. My 20 years worth of gaming experience tells me that pes is a better simulation of football than fifa - and most of the knowledgeable gamers on the forums say the same.

ORLY! Heh. You may very well have a point in what you say about FIFA, but your posts on the FIFA forum were beyond ridiculous. You were trolling BIG TIME. And it was very deserved that you got banned. In fact, I am shocked to see you post so rather intelligently in here. Why did you not do that on the FIFA forum? Because, by god, that forum needs intelligence. I think the average IQ in there is about 70.

On topic, though: I am really looking forward to try the demos of both PES and FIFA this coming week.
I feel the FIFA WC game is actually quite good, but it does suffer from the FIFA curse which is mainly INSANE goal-to-goal action, completely ridiculous barging players, auto tackling defenders and absolutely no player individuality.
So it will be exciting to see if FIFA 11 fixes (some of) these. I am not particularly optimistic, though, based on the gameplay videos.

I would like PES to REALLY make a comeback, because I am SO SICK of EA and the way they treat their customers. Manager Mode in FIFA 10 was an outrage - so many bugs that it was unbelievable. Yet almost none of them were fixed. And FIFA 10 was very unbalanced and the fix for that was the world cup game. The gameplay received NO TWEAKING at all through patches.
And the world cup game did not receive a single patch. Even though it, for instance, contains a bug which causes the wrong team to progress from the group stage...

Luckily, I am unemployed at the moment, so I have some time to make up my mind about which game to get.
I have the problem that all my friends play FIFA, though, and I highly doubt that they will switch.

 

[theCRO]

I don't like in this video keeper animantion. The same issue was last year. The keeper used bad hand in this intervention.

If the ball is going right of you and higher than your head, it's easiest to use your left hand as you dive in a effort to palm the ball to safety. That animation is spot on.

 

[Lons]

If the ball is going right of you and higher than your head, it's easiest to use your left hand as you dive in a effort to palm the ball to safety. That animation is spot on.

I don't agree... You have to check FIFA's keepers animations. They use hands when they diving no whole body. Do you know what i mean?

 

[DuduBR9]

Martyneale

I respect this guy and his opinion. For me it makes sense It's an honor to have him on my psn list friends.

Too bad I don't see him online for a long time (I'm also off from psn for 4 days now or more).

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

If the ball is going right of you and higher than your head, it's easiest to use your left hand as you dive in a effort to palm the ball to safety. That animation is spot on.

Exactly.

 

[Lami]

...

Ok. I think you've taken this a bit too far now. This is the impressions topic and you guys can take it to PM. Any more of the same posts will be deleted. Please keep this on topic.

 

[danyjr]

On topic, though: I am really looking forward to try the demos of both PES and FIFA this coming week.
I feel the FIFA WC game is actually quite good, but it does suffer from the FIFA curse which is mainly INSANE goal-to-goal action, completely ridiculous barging players, auto tackling defenders and absolutely no player individuality.
So it will be exciting to see if FIFA 11 fixes (some of) these. I am not particularly optimistic, though, based on the gameplay videos.

I have played FIFA 11 on a few occasions, the latest build being the one in Gamerbase London. I have to say I am very disappointed with EA this year, it feels like all they did since FIFA 10 was drinking all the money they got with FIFA 10. Personality+ is pretty useless, there is still almost no player individuality, compared to PES you can say it is non-existent. Pro-passing is also another failure which won't effect ping-pong passing, as is the new stamina model which will have negligible effect on pressure abusers. All in all, nothing has changed except graphics and a few bug fixes...and probably tons of new bugs that we haven't discovered yet. Konami have done a much better job this year compared to EA, and correctly so because I couldn't see PES even touching FIFA after last year's failure. All in all, EA did Konami good by playing lazy, and I hope they get hit hard to be honest. This year, EA is the one that will get a wake up call just like Konami got it last year.

I would like PES to REALLY make a comeback, because I am SO SICK of EA and the way they treat their customers. Manager Mode in FIFA 10 was an outrage - so many bugs that it was unbelievable. Yet almost none of them were fixed. And FIFA 10 was very unbalanced and the fix for that was the world cup game. The gameplay received NO TWEAKING at all through patches.

I have to say Manager Mode last year was way too bad in terms of the number of bugs. I played a single season and gave up.

And the world cup game did not receive a single patch. Even though it, for instance, contains a bug which causes the wrong team to progress from the group stage...

Yeah, apart from a squad update and 'Story of Qualification' scenarios (which were also bugged, what a surprise!), no updates.

 

[dach]

hopefully someone can answer me this

example

playing as barca.. 23min of the game I press start (the ball hasnt gone out) I change Messi position from Right winger to a Left winger

will the happen immediately or will it be just like pes2010 I most have 2 wait till the ball goes out and then the change will happen


Can somebody test this out on the pes2011 demo

thanks in advance

 

[Schmari]

i've posted s... sorry^^

 

[Jimmy G-Force]

hopefully someone can answer me this

example

playing as barca.. 23min of the game I press start (the ball hasnt gone out) I change Messi position from Right winger to a Left winger

will the happen immediately or will it be just like pes2010 I most have 2 wait till the ball goes out and then the change will happen


Can somebody test this out on the pes2011 demo

thanks in advance

He will change position as soon as play stops.

 

[dach]

He will change position as soon as play stops.

hopefully I will get fixed in pes2012

 

[tobi]

I remember back in the day on the PS2 when you could see your two wide players swapping wings during a throw in, always made me smile.

 

[Kaiser]

I remember back in the day on the PS2 when you could see your two wide players swapping wings during a throw in, always made me smile.

1+

Don't forget the forwards too when the oposition was taking a goal kick! Especially when it was human v human.

 

[bramley]

few questions before i get the chance to hammer the demo

skills right thumb stick?

stand off defence is it back and x? what does it do delay a tackle

how do i switch from attack to all out defense is it select and another button?

also is it easy to set up skills and how many can you assaign?

cheers

 

[drekkard]

I haven't had the time to write a proper review of the demo. I've played mainly full manual fifa those 2 last years. I tried Pes2010 and played a full ML with it, only to find too many shortocmings in the technical department that made the game fall down to me.

But after trying this demo extensively these last days, I really must say I'm amazed at how they've changed this game for good.

Individuality, as Jimmy, Romagnoly and others say, is VERY impressive, but also the tactical depth that now, with a decent gameplay, shines.

So, there are LOTS of things I don't like of the demo, and the game still has many technical shortcomings, specially in the animation blending and some unbalanced things and odd ball physics here and there. Not to mention the terrible terrible aerial play in midfield, with players totally static waiting for the ball and then bang, a binary outcome.

There are a LOT of things that are not polished and won't be in the final game, and lots of things that are "restrictive" and would be easy to fix: 360º passing from goal kick, 360º passing for any foul kick, abbility to have 2 men when kicking any foul anywhere in the pitch (to play always the short pass), there's some ballooning now and then in shots, the BLOODY AWFUL crossing animation with the toe, and a lot fo things like that....

But these flaws can't detract me from playing again and trying new tactics and things. I'll say it once and for all, the gameplay IS brilliant, even with those blatant technical shortcomings.

I still think passing should be much more "manual" and much more difficult, specially the through passes that in my oppinion are too easy to perform (also because deffensive AI do strange things or have very low awareness sometimes) and may be an online gamebreaker. Let's see.

But really, I'll definitely will buy and play the game gladly, and I know I'll be a tactical bitch. With all it's glaring shortcomings, the gameplay is so great and the fundamentals work so well, that I'm even thinking if I'll buy Fifa or not. I know Fifa will have lots of minor improvements, but what I want is decent positioning, decent tactics, decent tackling system, a lot of fouls when pressuring like a bull... the basic things that make football what it is. I want the MINDS to be over the athletes, and PES allows me to play like that, while FIFA maybe won't.

I was so happy when I watch the bayern players unable to barge Xavi off the ball... or having Messi storming defenders by simply moving and shifting weight at a brutal pace. And then I can take Bayern and foul a lot in the midfield to break Barcelona's passing game. And then trying the lower teams battling for possession and for having one single shot on goal. Individuality is there for greatness.

I hope I'll have time to write some more things later on or tomorrow, now I'm just too busy at work, but thinking on these past days with the demo made me smile. Good for PES after some very deceiving years.

PS: And if Konami can improve the technical bed for pes12, I can see a masterpiece finally arriving to the ps3. The technical problems may put pes2011 as a good and solid effort, but there's an inch missing to make it. The difference is now I'm confident they can pull it out.

 

[Putuco Malo]

Great review drekkard. Coming from you, being a harsh critic of last PES efforts, and now praising the game without forgetting to mention the problems (some of them already mentioned here) makes me want so bad to try the demo.

Roll on the 15th!

 

[Simcut]

Re: few questions before i get the chance to hammer the demo

skills right thumb stick?

stand off defence is it back and x? what does it do delay a tackle

how do i switch from attack to all out defense is it select and another button?

also is it easy to set up skills and how many can you assaign?

cheers

Cant you wait till Wednesday?

look at the command list on wednesday

 

[prabz]

Heres my impressions

I totally ripped PES 2010 last year through frustration and annoyance.I once again had high hopes for konami to improve the game but they didnt deliver in the gameplay department.
So i switched to FIFA which was superior and better. By a long shot.

So i finally managed to play PES 2011 last week on psn plus.
I had alot of expectations considering the amount of hype and work it went through. WAS there really freedom and NEW gameplay ?
OR was it tweaked pes 2010 with improved graphics ?

heres my views

- passing system ,
5 secs in and i was like WOW , this feels soo different from PES 2010 . ANd it felt good. Better than EAs aswell. Measuring the passing and , the ball would go everywhere.

-FREEDOM
this is one aspect of the game that really impressed me , i was astonished with the amount of freedom to pass . I felt soo much more in control , a feeling that ive not had since pes 5 . Seriously felt great .

-SHOOTING
it took time to get use to but after 10 games , i finally got the hang of it . Its all about timing and composure . Worked after some time.

-defense
again after practice , it all came natural . no problems

ANIMATIOns
this is where PES has suffered , and im glad to say there fixed , i love them , it plays better and looks much more realistic.

GKs
alot of complaint from people .. i may be the rare few. But ive not had a problem with them . The animations are good. and they perfrom much better than last year. Of course they can be improved. But no way do they spoil the fun.

REFS
much better than last year ! , serious improvment. but again can be tweaked. But nothing major.

OVERALL

one thing that stands out soooo well in this game , that has in PES.
is individiuality. Never in FIFA did i have soo much FUN. Individuality kept me with PES and this year i just felt like it was 2004 , where we had PES 4 . I was alomost emotional . players felt sooo realistic .

THe more i play the more i become addictive and the more i love it.
This year i can say that no blind loyalty or anything makes me say positive things about this game. ITS GREAT.

Videos dont do the game justice.
response times and fluidity are great.

I HAD DOUBTS ... THERE ALL GONE.

PES 2010 looks PS2 compared to this.
thos who are not satisified by the demo , i dont think you will ever be happy. I think you are picky . and a fan like me who went over to FIFA. I just love this game .

and the guy who write that DAFT god awful comment about blind loyalty. Ive never heard sooo much trollop.

I love this game , after 20 plus matches. Its got a leanring curve , its harder than FIFA . its much more enjoyable.
I have been waiting for Konami to do this for 4 years. A game which has INDVIDUALITY LIKE NO OTHER , FREEDOM , GREAT PASSING SYSTEM.
I played the way i wanted to !

So for all thos who are dispointed a rare few , because most of the guys i showed this game and played with all loved it.

Im sorry you guys can play something else , il gladly be buying PES 2011 , becasue it deserves my cash . Because it has satisifed me thats why.

Im not taking any swipes at FIFA , both games have strong points , FIFA has developed well . But for me individuality on PES feels so satisfying that i simply want to play PES.

This year i dont care what everyone else plays , il play PES. because i enojoyed.

more importantly .. YOU NEED TO GIVE THE GAME TIME.

 

[blanka797]

Heres my impressions

I totally ripped PES 2010 last year through frustration and annoyance.I once again had high hopes for konami to improve the game but they didnt deliver in the gameplay department.
So i switched to FIFA which was superior and better. By a long shot.

So i finally managed to play PES 2011 last week on psn plus.
I had alot of expectations considering the amount of hype and work it went through. WAS there really freedom and NEW gameplay ?
OR was it tweaked pes 2010 with improved graphics ?

heres my views

- passing system ,
5 secs in and i was like WOW , this feels soo different from PES 2010 . ANd it felt good. Better than EAs aswell. Measuring the passing and , the ball would go everywhere.

-FREEDOM
this is one aspect of the game that really impressed me , i was astonished with the amount of freedom to pass . I felt soo much more in control , a feeling that ive not had since pes 5 . Seriously felt great .

-SHOOTING
it took time to get use to but after 10 games , i finally got the hang of it . Its all about timing and composure . Worked after some time.

-defense
again after practice , it all came natural . no problems

ANIMATIOns
this is where PES has suffered , and im glad to say there fixed , i love them , it plays better and looks much more realistic.

GKs
alot of complaint from people .. i may be the rare few. But ive not had a problem with them . The animations are good. and they perfrom much better than last year. Of course they can be improved. But no way do they spoil the fun.

REFS
much better than last year ! , serious improvment. but again can be tweaked. But nothing major.

OVERALL

one thing that stands out soooo well in this game , that has in PES.
is individiuality. Never in FIFA did i have soo much FUN. Individuality kept me with PES and this year i just felt like it was 2004 , where we had PES 4 . I was alomost emotional . players felt sooo realistic .

THe more i play the more i become addictive and the more i love it.
This year i can say that no blind loyalty or anything makes me say positive things about this game. ITS GREAT.

Videos dont do the game justice.
response times and fluidity are great.

I HAD DOUBTS ... THERE ALL GONE.

PES 2010 looks PS2 compared to this.
thos who are not satisified by the demo , i dont think you will ever be happy. I think you are picky . and a fan like me who went over to FIFA. I just love this game .

and the guy who write that DAFT god awful comment about blind loyalty. Ive never heard sooo much trollop.

I love this game , after 20 plus matches. Its got a leanring curve , its harder than FIFA . its much more enjoyable.
I have been waiting for Konami to do this for 4 years. A game which has INDVIDUALITY LIKE NO OTHER , FREEDOM , GREAT PASSING SYSTEM.
I played the way i wanted to !

So for all thos who are dispointed a rare few , because most of the guys i showed this game and played with all loved it.

Im sorry you guys can play something else , il gladly be buying PES 2011 , becasue it deserves my cash . Because it has satisifed me thats why.

Im not taking any swipes at FIFA , both games have strong points , FIFA has developed well . But for me individuality on PES feels so satisfying that i simply want to play PES.

This year i dont care what everyone else plays , il play PES. because i enojoyed.

more importantly .. YOU NEED TO GIVE THE GAME TIME.

OK .. I will thanks for the report

 

[jflores]

Can someone please tell me how to do a quick restart after a foul. Also, how do you shield an opponent with the ball. In past games, I would just hold R1 for my player to stop and he would automatically shield the ball if an opponent was behind him. This doesn't seem to work in this new version.

 

[wabak]

So does anyone know if us xbox 360 guys are getting it on the wednesday? I still haven't seen no 100% confirmation

 

[Granddevil]

I just got a 'high kick' foul from the ref. Me and the CPU was fighting for a bouncing ball and the CPU raised his feet to control the ball while my Robben was trying to head the ball. Guess what.. the ref gave me a freekick which is a sweet additional detail there... Sorry that I did not have any video of it. Is anyone getting it as well?

 

[AlaaEG]

Great review drekkard. Coming from you, being a harsh critic of last PES efforts, and now praising the game without forgetting to mention the problems (some of them already mentioned here) makes me want so bad to try the demo.

Roll on the 15th!

It was well deserved IMO. Can't wait to try the demo myself tomorrow.

 

[mjp]

Long time ISS/PES player here who moved to EA for FIFA08 through to FIFA10 and WC.

Well, downloaded the demo last night and think it's safe to say, I'm back to PES again.

Love it!

Some animations are a little iffy but overall, it's exactly what I want in a football game and that is, to be able to play football, freely and as I want to.

Playing the Barca/Bayern fixture feels totally different to the South American game.

Biggest problem I have is with the tactics screen but I'm sure that's just due to my brain being attuned to EA the last 3 years.

It's good to be back in the PES family :-)

 

[spursrule]

Definately the best footy sim this gen and I doubt Fifa can top it tbh, especially if it still have the floaty controls.

 

[Steekbal]

Player individuality wins it for me. FIFA still looks to be a quality game this year but I just can't take players like Xavi and Fabregas being next to useless anymore. In this game Xavi is my main player when using Barca, the way it's supposed to be. Olic' insane workrate is very useful and keeps Klose on the bench, unless he has a poor form arrow. In FIFA you just play the strongest and fastest players, in PES you play your best players.

People already discussed the difference D'Alessandro makes whether you have him in your team or are playing against him, and I agree 100%. Every player feels different, every player has his own role in the team.