Manchester United Thread

Herrera is not similiar to Carrick in anyway. Carrick is a DMF.

Utd should go for William Carvalho, even if it needs to overpay a bit. He's great, will be one of the best DMF in a couple of years. Plus he will not command too much wages, which will make the deal more reasonable.
 
andy18cruz said:
Herrera is not similiar to Carrick in anyway. Carrick is a DMF.

Utd should go for William Carvalho, even if it needs to overpay a bit. He's great, will be one of the best DMF in a couple of years. Plus he will not command too much wages, which will make the deal more reasonable.
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Carrick isn't a DMF, he's a deep-lying playmaker. If Carrick is a DMF, then so are Pirlo, Xavi and Fabregas.
 
Things we knew before the match:

1. Fletcher had one truly great 12 months, which was almost 5 years and one debilitating illness ago. Before that he was mediocre, and now he's worse. Not good enough for a United team. Sad, but true.

2. Cleverley has no balls, and will never make it at United.

3. Everyone hates Ashley Young, mostly United fans.

4. A backline of Michael Keane, Tyler Blackett and Phil Jones might well concede.

5. RVP will take a bit of time to get firing again.

6. Our midfield is f*cked.

I was going to throw in how poor our record is in matches with Martin Atkinson, but can't even blame him much (though there was a pen no one will talk about on RVP seconds before Young dove, guess that's karma). Listen, this isn't Manchester United's first team. Barring injuries, I'd make a case that all 3 of the defenders and both midfielders wouldn't play for us.

Bottom line for me is that things aren't working yet, and that our squad is broken. I'm not convinced the 352 is going to work, I don't like that Rooney is captain and I'm disappointed seeing Ashley Young out there, but I think we need to at least let LVG have a few matches with something resembling a first team.

Obviously it's very worrying that RVP/Mata/Rooney looks as bad as ever, but when both strikers are basically having to plya in midfield due to the utter sh*tstorm we fielded there, I still reserve judgement.
 
What are managers seeing in the 5-2-1-2 formation ? Last year, we played a few matches with that tactic as well and were by far the worst matches we played.
It 's a horrible tactic. You are forcing players to do all the flank which is extremely difficult and then you are either making attacking minded players defend every play or defensive minded players provide width and attack every play.
 
I think Van Gaal believes he has to play the front 3 of RVP/Roon/Mata and this is the only way he can come up with. Hopefully after seeing them today, he'll change his mind!

Rooney had 1 pass to RVP in the entire 90, RVP had 0 to Rooney. That's not a partnership, whatever his philosophy.

If we spend 60m on Di Maria and 0 on central midfield, we're just plain bonkers.
 
beachryan said:
Things we knew before the match:

1. Fletcher had one truly great 12 months, which was almost 5 years and one debilitating illness ago. Before that he was mediocre, and now he's worse. Not good enough for a United team. Sad, but true.

2. Cleverley has no balls, and will never make it at United.

3. Everyone hates Ashley Young, mostly United fans.

4. A backline of Michael Keane, Tyler Blackett and Phil Jones might well concede.

5. RVP will take a bit of time to get firing again.

6. Our midfield is f*cked.

I was going to throw in how poor our record is in matches with Martin Atkinson, but can't even blame him much (though there was a pen no one will talk about on RVP seconds before Young dove, guess that's karma). Listen, this isn't Manchester United's first team. Barring injuries, I'd make a case that all 3 of the defenders and both midfielders wouldn't play for us.

Bottom line for me is that things aren't working yet, and that our squad is broken. I'm not convinced the 352 is going to work, I don't like that Rooney is captain and I'm disappointed seeing Ashley Young out there, but I think we need to at least let LVG have a few matches with something resembling a first team.

Obviously it's very worrying that RVP/Mata/Rooney looks as bad as ever, but when both strikers are basically having to plya in midfield due to the utter sh*tstorm we fielded there, I still reserve judgement.
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True it's a tad easy forget but when you look at everyone MIA today it is a tad disheartening:
Carrick
Rafael
Shaw
Evans
Herrera
Rojo
Kagawa
RvP (yes he played but clearly isn't match fit yet)
Fellaini (at this pt rather him than Cleverley or Fletcher)

That's a lot of experience/skill to miss. Commentary said our back 3 combined were younger than two of Sunderland s back line.

I ve been in denial about this one but I made a complete 180 today on needing someone like De Jong. It might be a stop gap solution but we can't f around too long.
 
Yeah, between Young, Fletcher, Cleverley, Blackett and Keane (half the team!) they only had 40 combined appearances last season.

Not time to panic, but I do worry about top 4 given how strong Pool/Everton/Spurs/Arsenal are. Can't see it at the moment.
 
Damjan said:
Carrick isn't a DMF, he's a deep-lying playmaker. If Carrick is a DMF, then so are Pirlo, Xavi and Fabregas.
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Carrick is not a deep-lying playmaker. He has nothing of a playmaker in him. He's long pass is marginal, cannot set the tempo, his short dribble is rudimental (for a top team), his technique is normal.

He's a DMF. He lacks both pace and stamina to be a CMF, a box-to-box player. He's not a destroyer, he's more a positional DMF, works on anticipation, awareness, etc. Although he's a "big" and "large", he's not very physical imposing.

Herrera is a completely different player. A more creative one, a Latin CMF (less of a box-to-box), in the footsteps of what's asked of that type of player in La Liga. More like the players you mentioned. Last season he even played as an AMF, on a "free-role" on front of Mikel Rico and Iturraspe. Never saw Carrick doing that.
 
andy18cruz said:
Carrick is not a deep-lying playmaker. He has nothing of a playmaker in him. He's long pass is marginal, cannot set the tempo, his short dribble is rudimental (for a top team), his technique is normal.

He's a DMF. He lacks both pace and stamina to be a CMF, a box-to-box player. He's not a destroyer, he's more a positional DMF, works on anticipation, awareness, etc. Although he's a "big" and "large", he's not very physical imposing.

Herrera is a completely different player. A more creative one, a Latin CMF (less of a box-to-box), in the footsteps of what's asked of that type of player in La Liga. More like the players you mentioned. Last season he even played as an AMF, on a "free-role" on front of Mikel Rico and Iturraspe. Never saw Carrick doing that.
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Not wanting to go far down this road, but Michael Carrick has basically been our only central midfielder for 5 years, and we won a hell of a lot in that time. And that was playing with 40 year olds and Tom f*cking Cleverley.

So methinks despite being hard to quantify, he's rather good at being a central midfielder.
 
bebo said:
It's a long season....early days!
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Yep, that's the crucial bit.

All I want is to see us try something different in midfield. Fletc/Cleverley does not, has not and will not ever work. So screw it, stick Mata/Kagawa in there. Or bring in Pearson or Rothwell. Can't be worse than this, it just can't.
 
beachryan said:
Not wanting to go far down this road, but Michael Carrick has basically been our only central midfielder for 5 years, and we won a hell of a lot in that time. And that was playing with 40 year olds and Tom f*cking Cleverley.

So methinks despite being hard to quantify, he's rather good at being a central midfielder.
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Well, he play in a CMF Role, but that's not his true characteristics. He's there, but outside the short passing, what have been his contributions to the offense? Very Marginal. He rarely appears outside the area, behind the strikers or on the flanks. He's an effort guy on that role. A true CMF has a different value on offensive side of the game.

I like Carrick, just feel that you can get the best of him on front of the CB's.
 
relax, you're not in Europe so you'll probably finish second, that's how liverpool done it, isn't it?
seriously united needs to get two decent central midfielders or this is going to be moyes part 2.
 
Thierry14 said:
relax, you're not in Europe so you'll probably finish second, that's how liverpool done it, isn't it?
seriously united needs to get two decent central midfielders or this is going to be moyes part 2.
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Personally, I think if we get Di Maria and play him centrally alongside Herrera then their work rate and defensive ability combined will suffice in a midfield behind Mata, a lot can be achieved simply by pressing the ball and making teams give it to you. Of course I am holding a candle in hope that Vidal does come to the club, but I'm not stupid enough to believe it will happen - If there is any truth to the De Jong rumours then I will be happy, I like him as a solid DM. Blind I haven't seen enough of to judge but the little bit's I have seen give me some hope that he can be a good signing. Either way give or take them I am not worried about the state of the midfield, once everyone is fit (and we no longer have to field that pillock Cleverley).

Get Rojo in at LCB (even though I don't rate him highly) and one more experienced - and more in the mould of Vidic - CB in there and we will be fine in that department. Benatia rumours are exactly the kind of player I think we need, but without paying a premium for their services I'm not sure where we are going to find someone like him. Jones still looks like an accident waiting to happen, though there is a lot of improvement in his overall ability while Blackett impressed me today - my MOTM if I'm honest, yet there is the obvious fact that we can not rely on youth players to get us through big games or grind results out when it matters.

A lot of the instant reactions I've seen via social media and Reddit indicates a lack of enthusiasm for this new formation.

A lot of us seem to be forgetting that the two players most suited to those Wingback/Widemidfield roles are injured in Rafael and Shaw, when they are back fit and firing alongside the midfield, it will definitely sure up the wide areas where we saw that for all he has done in the last few years Valencia just no longer looks bothered by playing football, his positioning today was abysmal as well as his inability to even jump for headers let alone win any and we will no longer have to see Young (for his good pre-season form) even attempt to defend, bar Cleverley, I don't think I have ever seen a worse tackler in recent memory - Going forward he looked more dangerous, though except maybe Valencia and Milner, he is the most predictable player in the league these days. This means that our only real issue is depth in these positions, which brings we back to Rojo who can cover and if we do indeed capture Blind then his ability to play LB could be useful - though I do not believe it to be his strongest role (again, I haven't seen enough to judge so could be wrong) which leaves just the wide right exposed when Rafa is out, personally Valencia just doesn't cut it for me - I would prefer to see someone else signed or even Varela given a shot, as a dedicated right back he can't do much worse than Toni.

Personally, I would prefer to see us play a 433 but that isn't possible without dropping one or more of our stars at any one time and I have to believe that LvG can make this system work.

Coming up are 4 games that we should win without question, and if we do so could go along long way to fixing the "confidence issues" we supposedly have, and then we can judge just how we are doing when we come up against a usually tough WHU - a team that we look like we would probably struggle to beat if we faced them next weekend.


Sorry for the wall of text, and I rambled!
 
Will be interesting to see what team LVG picks against MK Dons

-You have injuries
-You don't want to risk any more (both for the league and the transfer window - fringe players being sold)
-and, obviously, getting beat would not exactly be good given the start to the season you've had nvm the loss of a potential trophy
 
Funny reading some of the comments here about Di Maria, you English lads have a very different view on football and players.

Regarding Di Maria, he was Madrids most important player last season along with Ronaldo. His absence has already been felt as they lost to Atlético on friday.

Real will regret selling him.
 
yeah Di María is amazing, will be awesome to see him in PL, but i wonder how he will gel in to United and if he will be so productive here...

+ i read United are buying him, together with his sallary for a record in world football...

United realy overpriced the last signings considering how much they say they don´t spend enough...

for last three windows it is net spend of £245m.

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that is without Di María...

but maybe United will profit from this transfer and pusch for places they want.
 
You payed way too much for players like Luke Shaw, Fellaini and Herrera, even Rojo.

Di Maria will face problems because he was in a team full of superstars, and usually had some space to create. Now at United I'm sure opponents will mark him and double on him a lot more than at Madrid.

But he is a tireless end to end worker and your first proper signing since Van Persie.
 
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gerd said:
That is a compensation for not playing CL football.
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Even before that, we spent more than necessary on Fellaini, Bebe etc.

The Hernandez transfer was probably the last time we unearthed a promising player, at a reasonable price and got the deal done in good time, before the World Cup.

The Scouting system needs some serious revamping and Woodward has yet to convince anyone he's suitably skilled enough to succeed in his current role.

Spending a lot of money on established players like RvP, Mata and Di Maria is just papering over the cracks.
 
As others have pointed out, United spending a ton in the last few windows is notable because:

1. We've overpaid a lot (though some prices are just wrong - Zaha for example was 7m with a potential additional 7m performance/results bonuses - obviously didn't pay a penny of those!) because Ed Woodward is not a football man, and has no idea what he's doing.

2. Our spend to construct the current squad is still significantly less than City and Chelsea, and the squads reflect that. We basically didn't have net transfer spend for 5 seasons under the Glazers, and we're now paying the price, literally.

3. If you read the United share prospectuses, you'll see that Ed is way more about a marquee signing than he is about actually improving the team. He wants to pay a British record fee just to say he has, not because it's necessary.

4. There is no stability at the club at the moment. We need to bring in a director of football and (gasp) start behaving more like City - having a long term goal for the squad and acquiring players over time to reach that. It's obviously easier when you have unlimited funds, but the concept remains the same.
 
:LOL:

Makes sense tho. If the club always plays pretty much the same way and picks its managers based on that then there isn't massive upheaval every time a new man comes in.
For instance, I don't really doubt that Guardiola has already been offered the job of managing City in 2 or 3 years time.
 
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