Manchester United Thread

gerd said:
Januzaj is not a youth product of Man Utd, he was formed by FC Brussels and Anderlecht. He came to Man Utd when he was 15 (i.e. at the age football players can sign a contract). IMO that is not a youth product.

Messi came to Barcelona at the age of 12, even he is not a youth product imo.

I'm coaching youth players and from what i see 15 year olds are for at least 85% the finished product. At that age they have all the necessary football skills, what they lack is (for some of them) body and experience...Of course Januzaj learned a lot at Man Utd, but he wasn't formed there...

Of course it's good thing for Januzaj that he can play for United and what i wrote above this sentence isn't that important... In the end United did "find" Januzaj...good work.
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I usually agree with gerd, but to say a 15 year old is close to a finished product is ridiculous IMO. We can see way too many examples of footballers who were probably not that good at 15 and blossomed in there late teens to early 20's
 
Well my friendster of all the things i wroet on this forum, this must be the one that i'm most convinced about, because it' s the one that i see week in, week out. Like all other things Theo learn most at a young age. I don't think they learn a lot of football skills when they are onder than 15.
 
gomito#10 said:
I usually agree with gerd, but to say a 15 year old is close to a finished product is ridiculous IMO. We can see way too many examples of footballers who were probably not that good at 15 and blossomed in there late teens to early 20's
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Actually by 15 you will have learnt all the basic skills of being a footballer, and refined them so you're at the highest ability then can be.. from there on you are learning the tactical side of the game more than anything and when or when not to use the certain skills you have learned by 15/16.

That's ny opinion anyway
 
I don't think that's always true, Gareth Bale was a very different footballer at 15 than he is right now at 23.
 
Of course i didn't know Gareth Bale when he was 15 years old, but i'm quite sure everything was there already (i remember the outrage when Spurs bought him from Southampton, so Saints must have seen him as a huge talent by then too).
IMO when they are 15 years old they 85% or even 90% from what it takes to be a great football player. Of course it's the remaining 15 or 10 % that are detrimental: will a player with that raw talent be a good lower league football player, a top class player or a world class player.

Take the example of Cristiano Ronaldo: when he left Sporting Club he already was one of the most talented players, but Man United polished him so that he became one of the best players in the world. To give you one example, i have ssen footage of Ronaldo when he was playing for Sporting. At the time he was far from the physically imposong player he is now...but the raw talent (football skills was there).

This discussion started about Januzaj. Januzaj isn't a youth product of Man Utd, but he did make progress that will help him to grow with those detrimental 10 or 15%.

An even better example is Kevin De Bruyne. I saw him play when he was 9 or 10 years old (it was a coïncidence, i saw him at a youth tournament when i still lived in Gent and De Bruyne is from Gent, but local Jupiler League club AA Gent had their doubts about him and ended up never signing him). He was outstanding technically and had the vision that 99% of the kids of that age don't have...
At that age De Bruyne played fora local team and the football instinct was already there, he also had quite a lot of skills. Then he went to Racing Genk, wish is a club with a fantastic youth development and he became the best player in the Jupiler League. Chelsea bought him and loaned him to Werder Bremen. There he became the player he is now: beside the vision that he already had when i saw him as a child, and the technical skills who were polished and refined with Genk, he also had the physical strength, something he acquired in Bremen. Is he a youth product of Bremen ? Everybody will agree with me that he isn't.

Anyway this discussion is academical. Januzaj has everything to become something special. I hope he plays for our national team (i'm sorry Valon, i know you want him to play for Albania) at senior level.
 
Aboutreika18 said:
How do you pronounce his surname, gerd?
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Dificult question, i'm not good at all things phonetical, i will give it a try for English people:

Yanuzai

That is how we in Belgium pronounce his name. Maybe you should ask Valon (Albania FC), since he is Albanian and Januzaj is an Albanian name...
 
To be honest we were pretty good, this time against opposition who are clearly in better form than us (midway through their season).

Positives were:
- Zaha looks ready to play in our counter-attack style. He's fast, direct and makes things happen
- Kagawa, De Gea, Young and Smalling all came back in
- Lingard, Zaha and Janujaz all got minutes again

Negatives:
- Cleverley and Anderson continue to not offer enough defensive cover and we were punished for it
- Conceded on a corner with a free header
- Welbeck was back to bambi on ice
- We lost
 
Got hold of tickets to the match in Hong Kong, I hope RvP will be fine to play in that match.

I am getting the feeling more and more that we will not be bringing anyone else...I know, we're still a whole month away from the window being closed, but unless we are doing some decoy thing with Fabregas as a cover-up, i really don't think we will get Cesc. He wants to play and needs to play for the WC next year, but at the same time, I don't think he wants to leave Barca again...

What happened to the Fellaini or Baines rumours?
 
We'll see what happens. There's an excellent Beyond the Pitch podcast (which I highly recommend btw) where they're discussing the premier league and transfers. The summary is that if we don't sign anyone it's an abject failure on the business side, and a huge, huge 'let down' for David Moyes.

I didn't realise this, but you and I have signed the same number of players as Ed Woodward before he started in May (big fat 0) and I can't help but feel something is amiss.

I know the window isn't closed, but on all fronts it makes sense to have identified and sorted our business to coincide with Moyes joining.

The fact that so much of this is being done in public makes me wonder if it's not just all for the benefit of the stock price - which has noticeable shifts depending on the news.

One thing is for sure - City and Chelsea had better squads than us last year, and have added 100m and 50m of talent each and brought in very good managers to boot. So if last year we only made it across the line due to Fergie's brilliance - we're putting Moyes under a whole ton of pressure to not only match the 'Fergie factor' but exceed it.

All seems madness to me.
 
ManCity had a better squad ! you`re not a delusional loon :LOL: I think ManCity might have too many new players that might have a slow start ,but have a great finish.
 
Godotelli said:
Not counting the starting 11, Utd had more depth, esp. in defense.

Not many disagree with that.
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In defense? we had evans, jones, smalling, ferdinand, vidic, rafael, evra and buttner. City had Kompany, nastasic, lescott, k toure, clichy, kolarov, richards, zabaleta, maicon and bridge, by my maths, use had 2 more defenders than we did. also had more keepers than we did, also had more strikers, we only had more in midfield so i don't understand where this 'depth' we had over use comes in.
 
Godotelli said:
Not counting the starting 11, Utd had more depth, esp. in defense.

Not many disagree with that.
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The fact Maicon wasn't even starting when fit despite being one of the best RB's on paper says a lot about your defensive depth, and the squads again. You've got so many midfielders while united have so little its almost laughable, up top is where the squads a re a lot more equal, but at times it looked like RvP was our only striker who knew what he was doing.



Anyway, I think United should go all out to get someone like Xabi Alonso or Mascherano if this Fabregas deal falls through. In fact, we should go for Mascherano even if we get Cesc. I really like Javier as a player, even if he's a cheeky little shite.
 
jaygrim said:
Why did woodward come back early?
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To try and talk Rooney around I'd imagine, to stop Chelski from sinking their claws in while no big representation for United was around.

Unless we get Fellaini and Baines we are getting no one, our transfer business has been a forgone conclusion since Moyes was announced: them two or bust.
 
aitken said:
In defense? we had evans, jones, smalling, ferdinand, vidic, rafael, evra and buttner. City had Kompany, nastasic, lescott, k toure, clichy, kolarov, richards, zabaleta, maicon and bridge, by my maths, use had 2 more defenders than we did. also had more keepers than we did, also had more strikers, we only had more in midfield so i don't understand where this 'depth' we had over use comes in.
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I'm not just talking about numbers but also the quality of the reserve players.
We might have had more options at fullback but Richards and Maicon were out practically all season and Bridge wasn't even at the club. The heart of defense is where Utd had much better quality and more options. Rio, Vidic, Evans, Jones, Smalling is much better depthwise than Kompany, Nastasic, Lescott and a past it Kolo.
And even when Maicon was fit, which was hardly ever, Jones is much better and Smalling is certainly no worse at RB.
LB was pretty equal with Buttner and Kolarov. I don't know if you rate Buttner but I don't rate Kolarov, complete liability.
We couldn't really handle being without Kompany. Utd were better equipped to handle things without their best CB.

In CM we had Yaya, Barry and Garcia (utter tosh) and Rodwell but he was out all season.

AM our first choices are better but whilst Milner is pretty good the quality drops alarmingly with Sinclair. Utd had Kagawa, Valencia, Nani, Welbeck, Young to choose from, so more quality in depth

Upfront it's probably close either way. Both Dzeko and Chicharito score goals despite being quite poor in terms of linkup play. Balotelli was sold.

Whether you think City had a better squad as a whole really depends on how much more you rate our starting 11 over Utd's, imo. I think it's quite clear that Utd had better options outside of the first 11 overall.
 
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Keepers are similar
Full backs I'd give the edge to City
Centre Backs probably United but injuries hamper both teams
Central midfield is clearly City
Attacking midfield/wingers - I'd say a tie, United have better wingers and use them, City have better 'behind the striker' players and use them.
Up front United have better until Rooney is sold.

I guess if you're comparing full 25 man squads it's closer, but I still think City's best XI plus 7 subs (so the vast majority) is far stronger than United's. On paper, of course, which means so little in the end.

The only attacker in United's squad that would get into City's first choice XI is RVP. If I had to pick a 'Manchester' XI:
De Gea, Zabelta, Vidic, Kompany, Clichy, Carrick, Milner, Toure, Silva, Aguero, RVP
 
I kind of agree with your Manchester XI, so one might conclude that City has the better team/squad.
Team: definitely.
Squad: no.

An EPL isn't won with 11 players, but with good squad depth. Man Utd has much more quality in depth than City. In fact without either Touré or Kompany, Manchester City are very vulnerable...The fact that Silva was less good than the previous season was also a major factor, so one might argue that City is all about those 3 players... Take those 3 out of last season's squad and City would struggle for a top four place...

Anyway this is all speculative of course...
 
The media likes to focus on Yaya but for me the one player we miss most when it comes to attacking threat is Silva. We just don't look the same without him. Even if he doesn't get the assist he is usually the player that creates the conditions for the assist. He's our best player and the best player in the PL, imo.

As for a Manchester 11, I'd pick Hart but I'd agree with the rest. Tho I'd probably be tempted to put Rooney in over Milner and play him on the left, drifting in. Not his best position but he's a great player.

A Top 3 11 would be a cracking team...




-----------------Hart------------------

Zabaleta---Kompany--Vidic----Cole

-----------Toure-----Carrick-------

---Silva----------------------Mata

-----------RVP-----Aguero
 
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