Lost - The Final Season

DagsJT said:
Not to mention that the storm was pissing down with rain, then the next scene it was sunny as anything with pretty much no indication that there was a storm not long before.

I do wonder when they actually came up with the finish. Has Desmond always been immune to the electromagnetism then?

I don't know. I mean, I see what you're saying Tuta about character development. And that was superb, the emotion felt during the flashes in this episode was up there with any entertainment I've seen and it made me realise just how much has happened in Lost and it shows you how attached you've become to the characters.

But if they always wanted it about the characters, did they really need to put in a smoke monster, a special light of life, Dharma, the Others, Dogen, the statues etc. It felt to me that they made Lost as this really well engineered drama based on clever puzzles and theories. And in the end, the only theory that actually counted for anything was the one people suggested in the first couple of episodes six years ago.

I feel a bit cheated that they put in so many pieces to create theories and created so much excitement and mystery around the island, only to take a cheap and easy way out.

Oh, what's the deal with Richard? He was made immortal, I guess like Ben was by Hurley (incidently why Ben, who's hardly trustworth, and not Desmond?) but he wanted to get off the island as well. So where did he go once he gets off Lapidus' plane? He had no life to go to, as such.

Why wasn't Miles, Lapidus and Richard in the church? It can't be because everyone in the church was on 815 because Penny was there.

I guess the purgatory ending was clear once the "joke" was made about Christian Shephard's name. I spotted that as soon as his name was first mentioned in Lost and thought it was an interesting name. But with the writers dismissing purgatory, I didn't think much more of it.
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I guess some people weren't in the church due to either not being dead, or going to another place.

As for the name, yes it was clever - BUT, again, for the life of me, back when they were writing Lost before it even aired, I bet they didnt think - "we'll have a character called Christian Shepherd who will gather his flock of dead characters and guide them into the afterlife'! I'm thinking lucky coincidence, but I'd happily be wrong and bow to them!
 
pboreham said:
I guess some people weren't in the church due to either not being dead, or going to another place.

As for the name, yes it was clever - BUT, again, for the life of me, back when they were writing Lost before it even aired, I bet they didnt think - "we'll have a character called Christian Shepherd who will gather his flock of dead characters and guide them into the afterlife'! I'm thinking lucky coincidence, but I'd happily be wrong and bow to them!
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"Everybody dies at some point." - Christian Sherphard.

Hurley outlived Jack, he looked after the island with Ben. But Hurley was still at the Church to be with Jack. As Christian said, the Church isn't in any particular time, it's just now. So I don't think that people not being dead is a reason for them not being in the church.

I mean, really, are you telling me that they had this ending planned? They originally wrote Lost for three seasons, then ABC renewed it for another three (or so I believe). So when was this purgatory ending actually created? Six years of story and this was the best way to end it?

I'm pretty bitter myself it seems :LOL:

What about Alex (Ben's daughter), Rousseau, Widmore, Alvar Hanso? All of these people were in the alt timeline with very different lives.

And the flashes that we've been seeing since Lost started. I take it these are flashes of the alt timeline, which we all thought was their past before they crashed? It's actually a flash of what? We saw flashes of Locke being paralysed by his father, but then flashes showing him getting on with his father.

So were all of the flashes prior to this season what actually happened? And then is the alt timeline the characters living a different life where they made good decisions. Such as Locke getting on with his father, and Jack having a good relationship with his his ex-wife (Juliet) where in the old flashes he was with Sarah and the divorce was messy. What about the flashes where Jack was living with Kate?

Is the island actually REAL, or imagination? Is Jacob real? He managed to "leave the island" as such to go into the candidates lives' and bring them to the island. Can someone explain that at all?

The ending has created far more questions than there were beforehand :(
 
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DagsJT said:
"Everybody dies at some point." - Christian Sherphard.

Hurley outlived Jack, he looked after the island with Ben. But Hurley was still at the Church to be with Jack. As Christian said, the Church isn't in any particular time, it's just now. So I don't think that people not being dead is a reason for them not being in the church.

I mean, really, are you telling me that they had this ending planned? They originally wrote Lost for three seasons, then ABC renewed it for another three (or so I believe). So when was this purgatory ending actually created? Six years of story and this was the best way to end it?

I'm pretty bitter myself it seems :LOL:

What about Alex (Ben's daughter), Rousseau, Widmore, Alvar Hanso? All of these people were in the alt timeline with very different lives.

And the flashes that we've been seeing since Lost started. I take it these are flashes of the alt timeline, which we all thought was their past before they crashed? It's actually a flash of what? We saw flashes of Locke being paralysed by his father, but then flashes showing him getting on with his father.

So were all of the flashes prior to this season what actually happened? And then is the alt timeline the characters living a different life where they made good decisions. Such as Locke getting on with his father, and Jack having a good relationship with his his ex-wife (Juliet) where in the old flashes he was with Sarah and the divorce was messy. What about the flashes where Jack was living with Kate?

The ending has created far more questions than there were beforehand :(
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Yup - not even 'good' questions either. Just ones where we can pick the plot apart completely and realise its all been a bit shite. I mean, another one I've thought of...

In the end, what was the fuss about Focke wanting to 'get off the island' - he had no plan and in the end just wanted to sink the island. He could have left any time.... actually.... I wonder. Just thought of something...

When Des 'uncorked' the light, Focke took a solid human form again, so he could have swam to the boat - and he couldnt uncork the light himself. So perhaps the plan was for Des to do that and release Focke from the smoke.... BUT... that wasnt Fockes plan as he both tossed Des down a well to kill him and when that didnt work, sent Sayid to kill him.

Bah, its all bollocks - they didnt know what they were writing :(


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Oh bugger, meant to say in my last post about Christian too - about the name being a 'lucky' fit - they aren't all Christians. There were Hebrews, Buddhists etc as denoted on the stained glass window. So 'Christian' Shepherd doesnt really work.
 
Fuck, I'm so confused. I feel like I do when I think about the big bang, or why we're here. DAMN YOU LOST MY HEAD HURTS.

So..

If I'm understanding this correctly, they didn't all die when the plane crashed, right? And this sideways-flash / flash-forward / alt-timeline was purgatory for people who hadn't accepted they had died?

So how did Kate die? How did Hurley die? For example, if Kate did get off the island on the plane and lived till she was old and grey, why in this alt-timeline had she 'not accepted' death?

That goes for Hurley, Ben and all the other characters too.

Or am I getting it totally mixed up?
 
pboreham said:
Yup - not even 'good' questions either. Just ones where we can pick the plot apart completely and realise its all been a bit shite. I mean, another one I've thought of...

In the end, what was the fuss about Focke wanting to 'get off the island' - he had no plan and in the end just wanted to sink the island. He could have left any time.... actually.... I wonder. Just thought of something...

When Des 'uncorked' the light, Focke took a solid human form again, so he could have swam to the boat - and he couldnt uncork the light himself. So perhaps the plan was for Des to do that and release Focke from the smoke.... BUT... that wasnt Fockes plan as he both tossed Des down a well to kill him and when that didnt work, sent Sayid to kill him.

Bah, its all bollocks - they didnt know what they were writing :(


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Oh bugger, meant to say in my last post about Christian too - about the name being a 'lucky' fit - they aren't all Christians. There were Hebrews, Buddhists etc as denoted on the stained glass window. So 'Christian' Shepherd doesnt really work.
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If MiB just wanted to leave the island, and he could've just taken his boat and sailed off, why didn't he? There's been a few boats and ships (including a submarine) that he could've used to leave. The only way I can think is that because the light took away his ... smokeness and made him "human" and physical again, maybe he was fine to leave somehow then?

I think Christian Shephard was probably fine back when Lost started, but the world has gone crazy with religion now and if the did use a Christian church, I'm sure some people would take offense.
 
FlawlessCowboy said:
Fuck, I'm so confused. I feel like I do when I think about the big bang, or why we're here. DAMN YOU LOST MY HEAD HURTS.

So..

If I'm understanding this correctly, they didn't all die when the plane crashed, right? And this sideways-flash / flash-forward / alt-timeline was purgatory for people who hadn't accepted they had died?

So how did Kate die? How did Hurley die? For example, if Kate did get off the island on the plane and lived till she was old and grey, why in this alt-timeline had she 'not accepted' death?

That goes for Hurley, Ben and all the other characters too.

Or am I getting it totally mixed up?
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Nope, you're on the right tracks I believe.

And I know what you're saying about the alt as well. Assuming the people on the plane did leave and live happy, why did they have to wait for Jack? Maybe they all couldn't pass to Heaven because they all had to go as a group?

That would make sense apart from Penny not being on the island and not in their gang.
 
DagsJT said:
If MiB just wanted to leave the island, and he could've just taken his boat and sailed off, why didn't he? There's been a few boats and ships (including a submarine) that he could've used to leave. The only way I can think is that because the light took away his ... smokeness and made him "human" and physical again, maybe he was fine to leave somehow then?

I think Christian Shephard was probably fine back when Lost started, but the world has gone crazy with religion now and if the did use a Christian church, I'm sure some people would take offense.
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Yea, what I meant about smokey was that (it was explained in a recent ep), he doesnt like water - although Jack pushed him in near the sub and nothing happened, but I digress.

So I wonder if his 'plan' was to retake his human form by Des turning the light off and then he can swim to the boat across the water and leave.

But like I explained, that doesnt really hold up as a theory for many reasons.

Which leaves another gaping hole of the whole "i just want to get off the island" one minute, to "i'm going to sink the island using Desmond (who I tried hard to kill)" the next.

The more and more i think about it, the worse it gets and this is shown up as actually a TERRIBLE ending.

It was good to get closure for the characters sake - however lame, but what its done is actually render the show's story a crock of shit.

What is Whidmores involvement? Why did he come back in the first place this season, but even in doing so, why bring Des? What did he know of the light and how Des would help etc.

Its all so rushed and as my mate has emailed me, feels like someone pressed the panic button.
 
pboreham said:
Yea, what I meant about smokey was that (it was explained in a recent ep), he doesnt like water - although Jack pushed him in near the sub and nothing happened, but I digress.

So I wonder if his 'plan' was to retake his human form by Des turning the light off and then he can swim to the boat across the water and leave.

But like I explained, that doesnt really hold up as a theory for many reasons.

Which leaves another gaping hole of the whole "i just want to get off the island" one minute, to "i'm going to sink the island using Desmond (who I tried hard to kill)" the next.

The more and more i think about it, the worse it gets and this is shown up as actually a TERRIBLE ending.

It was good to get closure for the characters sake - however lame, but what its done is actually render the show's story a crock of shit.

What is Whidmores involvement? Why did he come back in the first place this season, but even in doing so, why bring Des? What did he know of the light and how Des would help etc.

Its all so rushed and as my mate has emailed me, feels like someone pressed the panic button.
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I'm inclined to agree with your mate. Widmore has been a major player recently, but he just gets shot and that's that? What did he even tell MiB?

Panic button indeed.
 
Basically, I just want to know what to tell people who haven't watched the show when they ask me, 'So.. what happened?'

If the ending was decent and not a fucking mess, I SHOULD be able to tell them. But as it stands, I wouldn't know what to say. To me, that says alot about the show, as much as I adore it.
 
DagsJT said:
I'm inclined to agree with your mate. Widmore has been a major player recently, but he just gets shot and that's that? What did he even tell MiB?

Panic button indeed.
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I was worried at the start of this season when they introduced the temple story etc (now completely unnecessary really in the grand scheme of the story), as to they should have been winding the story down this season and explaining lots of things (not all, but there IS a lot to explain) - but they introduced more new characters and back story.

Its almost as if they were writing with another season in mind and then the plug got pulled and they had to wrap it up and find a conclusion in 6 episodes.

I still think they have enough content and momentum for at least 1 more season, maybe more.
 
FlawlessCowboy said:
Basically, I just want to know what to tell people who haven't watched the show when they ask me, 'So.. what happened?'

If the ending was decent and not a fucking mess, I SHOULD be able to tell them. But as it stands, I wouldn't know what to say. To me, that says alot about the show, as much as I adore it.
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Here's what I'd say:

They crashed on the island, they either died on the island or managed to leave but couldn't go to Heaven until they accepted they'd died. Some people needed to stay on the island to accept it.

And that's it, in a nutshell. Six years of Lost, and the explanation is that the island was just a place for them to accept they had died and came to terms with it.

Lame :(
 
I hope when the writers get interviewed over the next few days (as hopefully they will), then they'll explain some of what went on.

Trouble is, by ending it like this makes it virtually impossible to do another series if they got the chance, which is another bad thing.

People moaned about the end of the Soprano's, but I thought it was superb. It left a lot open, but also allowed you to have closure if you wanted - and the story COULD continue if they wanted.

But this has pretty much been brought to a sloppy mess of an ending.
 
DagsJT said:
Here's what I'd say:

They crashed on the island, they either died on the island or managed to leave but couldn't go to Heaven until they accepted they'd died. Some people needed to stay on the island to accept it.

And that's it, in a nutshell. Six years of Lost, and the explanation is that the island was just a place for them to accept they had died and came to terms with it.

Lame :(
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Yep, thats what I was going to say. 6 years that can be (literally) summed up in one sentance.
 
pboreham said:
I was worried at the start of this season when they introduced the temple story etc (now completely unnecessary really in the grand scheme of the story), as to they should have been winding the story down this season and explaining lots of things (not all, but there IS a lot to explain) - but they introduced more new characters and back story.

Its almost as if they were writing with another season in mind and then the plug got pulled and they had to wrap it up and find a conclusion in 6 episodes.

I still think they have enough content and momentum for at least 1 more season, maybe more.
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I'd agree with that, although they knew it was ending so they've had this finish planned for a while now.

That's the annoying thing. The writing has been excellent constantly during Lost for six years. But they can't finish it off to the same standard it seems. It really comes across as they wanted to do more with the story but couldn't.

Who knows, maybe they hoped to get another season before this ended? A last-minute thing? That would've been good as another season would've been enough to answer all of the questions we've asked this morning, as well as the questions we've been asking since the show started. As it happens now, we've been fed an ending which could've been used to finish season one and close the show off then. Seasons 2-6 haven't really been needed, have they?
 
FlawlessCowboy said:
So they DID die when the plane crashed? Cause otherwise that doesn't make sense - the island couldn't have been a place to 'wait around on' for them to accept death, if they hadn't died!
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Sorry, I meant either people died in the crash or they survived and lived on the island.

I'm pretty sure they didn't die when it crashed and they actually survived and did experience the island in reality.

The island wasn't the place to hang around, the "waiting room" was the alternate reality. The island was the way to get to the alt for most people, although the people who left at the end would've died back home and still met up in the alt once they died.
 
DagsJT said:
I'd agree with that, although they knew it was ending so they've had this finish planned for a while now.

That's the annoying thing. The writing has been excellent constantly during Lost for six years. But they can't finish it off to the same standard it seems. It really comes across as they wanted to do more with the story but couldn't.

Who knows, maybe they hoped to get another season before this ended? A last-minute thing? That would've been good as another season would've been enough to answer all of the questions we've asked this morning, as well as the questions we've been asking since the show started. As it happens now, we've been fed an ending which could've been used to finish season one and close the show off then. Seasons 2-6 haven't really been needed, have they?
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Nope, absolutely spot on. 2-6 has been pointless now in the grand scheme of things. What I was going on about originally in the emotional investment the writers wanted from the audience - remember how you felt when you first saw the 'others', or when Dharma got revealed, the smoke monster, the sad story of Locke and his Dad, the drama of 'pressing the button', Jack being captured etc etc.

Now, all for nothing - all pointless and as you say, could have wrapped it up in 1 season.

Worryingly ended - plus the way FlashForward has panned out too (from the same creator), think I'll give Abrams a wide berth in future.... oops, seems he has nothing to do with FF... but still! :LOL:
 
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pboreham said:
Nope, absolutely spot on. 2-6 has been pointless now in the grand scheme of things. What I was going on about originally in the emotional investment the writers wanted from the audience - remember how you felt when you first saw the 'others', or when Dharma got revealed, the smoke monster, the sad story of Locke and his Dad, the drama of 'pressing the button', Jack being captured etc etc.

Now, all for nothing - all pointless and as you say, could have wrapped it up in 1 season.

Worryingly ended - plus the way FlashForward has panned out too (from the same creator), think I'll give Abrams a wide berth in future.
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See that's the annoying thing! The numbers! They had the world going crazy! Everyone got caught up in that hysteria, it was brilliant writing and very clever. That doesn't mean anything now.

Dharma and the Others, those tapes that were created by Hanso, the food drops. Good storylines which had us gripped and again wasted and pointless in the end.

When the Losties got transported back to the old village and some of them worked for Dharma. Pointless.

All these opportunities wasted, really interesting storylines glazed over and forgotten about, because a purgatory finish was the best way to end it? Behave.

In saying all of this though, have they actually got it spot on? I mean, look how much discussion this has created already and it hasn't long finished. Lots of people haven't seen it yet and there'll be more discussion then.

As my Dad says, when we see a crap TV advert, he'll always come out with the same thing. "It might be crap, but at least you're talking about it and it's got your attention."

As crap as the ending was, it's definately carried on the Lost tradition of keeping people talking about it and it'll likely be spoken about for a lot longer than if they just wrapped it up well and answered a lot of questions.

It could actually be a very clever finish.
 
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Something someone has posted on another forum which I quite like:

I didn't think it was meant to be if you hadn't accepted death, i just interpreted it as a place where they all went after they died outside of time, so they could have all died at any time of any cause and to enter into the 'next life' heaven or whatever they had to all meet up 1 last time for 'closure' because they played such integral parts in each others lives and maybe didn't have a chance to say goodbye to each other properly. For instance it was implied that Hurley and Ben had looked after the island for a while before dying that's why he said Ben was a great number 2 and Hurley was a great number 1, but alot of them were already dead at the end of where we stopped watching the regular timeline. That was my interpretation of it anyway.
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But that STILL doesn't explain why certain people who had died in this alt-timeline didn't know one another and had to 'remember'
 
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DagsJT said:
See that's the annoying thing! The numbers! They had the world going crazy! Everyone got caught up in that hysteria, it was brilliant writing and very clever. That doesn't mean anything now.

Dharma and the Others, those tapes that were created by Hanso, the food drops. Good storylines which had us gripped and again wasted and pointless in the end.

When the Losties got transported back to the old village and some of them worked for Dharma. Pointless.

All these opportunities wasted, really interesting storylines glazed over and forgotten about, because a purgatory finish was the best way to end it? Behave.

In saying all of this though, have they actually got it spot on? I mean, look how much discussion this has created already and it hasn't long finished. Lots of people haven't seen it yet and there'll be more discussion then.

As my Dad says, when we see a crap TV advert, he'll always come out with the same thing. "It might be crap, but at least you're talking about it and it's got your attention."

As crap as the ending was, it's definately carried on the Lost tradition of keeping people talking about it and it'll likely be spoken about for a lot longer than if they just wrapped it up well and answered a lot of questions.

It could actually be a very clever finish.
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Hmmm... as I said earlier, they could have had a finish and left us discussing loads of questions in a better way - about how clever, or how great it was.

All we are discussing are the flaws and holes in the plot and characters now, surely not the way the writers want to be remembered?

FlawlessCowboy said:
Something someone has posted on another forum which I quite like:

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Yea, think that was assumed - Christian saying that 'there is no now' or something and that 'some people died before, some long after you Jack' - saying that this was way into the future.
 
So then... Jacob!

When he touched the Losties, was it in real life, or in the alt life - and if in the real life, how did he get off the island when old smokey couldnt...

This show has more holes than a warehouse full of Polos...
 
pboreham said:
So then... Jacob!

When he touched the Losties, was it in real life, or in the alt life - and if in the real life, how did he get off the island when old smokey couldnt...

This show has more holes than a warehouse full of Polos...
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Yep, I mentioned that before. These flashes, when and where are they?

I think maybe MiB couldn't leave the island due to it not liking water as mentioned earlier, and not like electricity fields either. Jacob was a real person so he'd have had no problems jumping on a ship and boating off. MiB was smoke essentially, it didn't have the same capabilities as Jacob/a human.
 
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DagsJT said:
Yep, I mentioned that before. These flashes, when and where are they?
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The only thing that makes sense are the flash backs. Then they got clever and did the flash forwards, which on the whole worked well and we thought that made sense. I.e. some of them got off the island and this is what happened to them.

Then came all the time travelling and the 'we have to go back' etc and now fuck knows what way is up with it all as the forwards dont make sense now (as they never happened??) and the sideways dont make sense (as they arent even real), so its a right mess IMO!
 
I'm finally coming to terms with it, and I think, that none of these holes matter. The only thing to know, is that Lost was all about the characters. The island, the numbers, Dharma, everything that happened on that island, happened and took these characters on this amazing journey and allowed us as the viewer to connect with them in ways deeper than any TV show I have ever watched before has allowed me to do so.

Then, when they all eventually died one way or another, they 'forgot' about their lives and what had happened and had to reunite with one another in the afterlife / purgatory to remember what had happened, allowing them to pass on into heaven or whatever.

Reading that back, makes me happy and gives me at least a little bit of closure. Obviously we can all guess and hypothesise about things on the island and plot holes until the cows come home, but essentially, none of it matters.




At least, I think...
 
pboreham said:
the forwards dont make sense now (as they never happened??) and the sideways dont make sense (as they arent even real), so its a right mess IMO!
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Pretty much :CONF:

So I think it's agreed, most of Lost didn't really matter much with regards to the story. The flashes were pretty pointless and the characters like Jacob (who's been this all-powerful, wonderful, mysterious character since the start) actually didn't turn out to be much use to the end anyway.

Basically it's a bunch of people who got on well and wanted to meet for a piss-up before heading off to Heaven. All the rest is just fluff to pad it out. Maybe a bit harsh as the episodes have been superb but I'm just disappointed that this is the end-game and all of the fun during the show doesn't really do much to the end.
 
FlawlessCowboy said:
I'm finally coming to terms with it, and I think, that none of these holes matter. The only thing to know, is that Lost was all about the characters. The island, the numbers, Dharma, everything that happened on that island, happened and took these characters on this amazing journey and allowed us as the viewer to connect with them in ways deeper than any TV show I have ever watched before has allowed me to do so.

Then, when they all eventually died one way or another, they 'forgot' about their lives and what had happened and had to reunite with one another in the afterlife / purgatory to remember what had happened, allowing them to pass on into heaven or whatever.

Reading that back, makes me happy and gives me at least a little bit of closure. Obviously we can all guess and hypothesise about things on the island and plot holes until the cows come home, but essentially, none of it matters.




At least, I think...
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Your right in that sense, and that's what the writers intended. We all got attatched to the characters and the sense of emotion during the last episode was brilliant.

But what's the reason you watched Lost and became glued to it? For me it wasn't as much the characters as it was about the numbers, Dharma, the mythical Jacob and what it all means.

It's nice to have character closure but I wanted storyline closure.

I guess it depends what you took from the show. If the characters were the main draw, it's a superb ending. If the mysteries, puzzles and theories were the main draw, then it's very disappointing.

That's my summary anyway.
 
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FlawlessCowboy said:
I'm finally coming to terms with it, and I think, that none of these holes matter. The only thing to know, is that Lost was all about the characters. The island, the numbers, Dharma, everything that happened on that island, happened and took these characters on this amazing journey and allowed us as the viewer to connect with them in ways deeper than any TV show I have ever watched before has allowed me to do so.

Then, when they all eventually died one way or another, they 'forgot' about their lives and what had happened and had to reunite with one another in the afterlife / purgatory to remember what had happened, allowing them to pass on into heaven or whatever.

Reading that back, makes me happy and gives me at least a little bit of closure. Obviously we can all guess and hypothesise about things on the island and plot holes until the cows come home, but essentially, none of it matters.




At least, I think...
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I think it 'matters' to the viewer? We were asked to accept these things as part of the story and were happy/sad etc depending on were the story went.

Only now after religiously watching it, to find out...

...nothing really - nothing mattered and thats the end of it. Thats a cop-out IMO and not a good way to pay homage to the series.

Like what I was saying about the Sopranos - like it or not, you at least could have closure if you wanted. I dont think there is any closure here on the Lost 'story', just that all the characters we loved are dead and that they are moving on now and thats that. I know that sounds like 'closure' in a way - but all the questions unanswered or brushed under the carpet are relevent to the story?
 
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