PeterC10
Championship
Yep, have watched Leeds quite a bit but you can never truly appreciate how they play until they do it against your team.
Defence for Leeds is a problem though.
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Liverpool Thread
- Thread starter Misfit
- Start date
Yep, have watched Leeds quite a bit but you can never truly appreciate how they play until they do it against your team.
Defence for Leeds is a problem though.
- Staff
- #42,032
I've heard this three times tonight, and every time I just think "if Liverpool concede three to Leeds, how many will they concede to Man City, Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham"...
I'm a bit worried for them! Van Dijk wasn't at his best...
PeterC10
Championship
Yeah Liverpool's defence has been bad since the restart to be honest. Van Dijk has made a couple of really bad mistake but the real problem has been Gomez, who's been dreadful more often than not. Also need to get another centre back in with Matip made of glass and no other senior centre backs.
Andy
Evoweb Jester/Stadboardmaker.
Well played Leeds, if they play like that against the majority of prem teams they will do ok this season. We look a bit out of sorts at the back, but lets hope it gets back on track. I dont expect us to have a season like the last one, so i suppose we're going to be more fallable from time to time this season.
I think Liverpool being poor post Covid break has more to do with just mentality than form, they did take an absolute rogering from Chelsea the bloody second they won the title, and after that they could sort of cruise their way to the end of the season. That mistake from Van Dijk was absurd, he made a howler this spring as well, I barely remember any mistakes from him at all prior to that, the lads have to remember it's a new season, time to get back to work.
Andy
Evoweb Jester/Stadboardmaker.
Anybody notice how so far this season when a ref is called to watch the screen by VAR they overturn their own decision. Will be interesting to see who is the first one to stick to their guns.
Yesterday at chelsea though all i can say is the chelsea def (name escapes me) who got sent off, should really have known better, risking it in the first place, and with mane's size he just pounced on him
so from then on in it was going to be an uphill struggle.
Back to the VAR tho Man utd had a good case to be pissed off in their game, after the ref altered/bottled his decision. No way was that a penalty (and we dont like em
) It baffles me how they get it wrong with multi angled replays. All i can think is they are busy on their phones &
and sometimes forget what they are there for. 
Yesterday at chelsea though all i can say is the chelsea def (name escapes me) who got sent off, should really have known better, risking it in the first place, and with mane's size he just pounced on him
so from then on in it was going to be an uphill struggle.Back to the VAR tho Man utd had a good case to be pissed off in their game, after the ref altered/bottled his decision. No way was that a penalty (and we dont like em
) It baffles me how they get it wrong with multi angled replays. All i can think is they are busy on their phones &and sometimes forget what they are there for. Shocking to tonight , I thought everyone but Salah looked off . The GK situation is going to cause some issues
bsmaff
World Cup Winner
Breaking News:-
Everton have called the police, to report their neighbours for letting in more than 6!
Everton have called the police, to report their neighbours for letting in more than 6!
Here in Germany I can't watch EPL because of the TV rights. But if I see the squad in UCL or FA Cup, Carabao Cup I qiut the broadcast.
And I tought they are all injured...
Seems that a new CB not coming in is not Klopps fault, but rather the owners. Maybe they are in FM/Master League mode and saving up for Mbappé. Liverpool are still in dire need for a defender and without one coming in I don't see the trophy cabinet being opened this year except for dusting.
Still, I am a bit more optimistic after last night's game, there was at least a spark there which has been missing lately.
Still, I am a bit more optimistic after last night's game, there was at least a spark there which has been missing lately.
- Staff
- #42,045
It's a bit weird - isn't Klopp essentially saying he doesn't want any new players? Yes, it's probably for the benefit of the existing team but... The situation is getting pretty dire.
PeterC10
Championship
Klopp has said he would want a centre back, but he doesn't get final say. He also said he won't complain if Liverpool fail to sign a centre back.
https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...liverpool-fail-to-sign-centre-back-in-january
The situation is as dire as it gets though. Unless it's a rare game where Matip can play, we're mostly playing two midfielders at centre back. Sometimes a kid instead of one of the two midfielders. Also the fact Fabinho, who has been amazing as a DM for us, is going to spend an entire season out of position frustrates me no end.
Bizarre thing is that we knew we were going into the season with just 3 senior centre backs, 2 of which are injury prone. To be honest I was happy with the gamble considering we got Thiago and Jota in and backup for the left back position in Tsimikas (all of who have missed large chunks of the season with injury, naturally) but it has backfired spectacularly.
Until the West Brom game I was surprised how well we had coped, and the run of fixture coming up looked like a real chance to get some momentum going. Instead it's just shown how our situation wasn't maintainable.
As soon Gomez's season ending injury occurred we should have had a centre back lined up. Obviously January is hard enough without covid, but we needed a 4th choice CB in the summer anyway. No one can tell me that we can't find a player above the level of Henderson or one of the kids at centre back.
It's a huge gamble by FSG, back in the summer it was unthinkable that Liverpool wouldn't get top 4, right now it looks like an uphill struggle.
Obviously Klopp is not blameless with the loss of form, but considering what he has delivered over the past few years he should be backed here.
I never understand managers constantly playing player's out of position to cover injuries. A game here and there, sure no problem but as a solution, no. A player might well be a better footballer than another but it doesn't mean he's better playing out of position than the so called weaker player is at playing in his natural position.
Fabinho is a good CB of course but as Peter says, he's also the best DM and has been very good there. This isn't dissimilar from Guardiola playing Fernandinho at CB a lot last season and weakening his midfield in the process by his absence. Why weaken two positions instead of just one? I swear some managers try to see how many square pegs they can get in round holes. It's as if their mindset is these are my best 11 players, now how can I shoehorn them all into the team, rather than what's the best team I can play.
They do this with subs as well. Bring off a player, let's say a winger for example and bring on a midfielder. Then one of the midfielder's on the pitch goes into the winger's position while the sub goes in his. 5-10 minutes later he'll take off the midfielder that moved position and bring on a winger for him and you think well why didn't you just change them both at the same time?
Fabinho is a good CB of course but as Peter says, he's also the best DM and has been very good there. This isn't dissimilar from Guardiola playing Fernandinho at CB a lot last season and weakening his midfield in the process by his absence. Why weaken two positions instead of just one? I swear some managers try to see how many square pegs they can get in round holes. It's as if their mindset is these are my best 11 players, now how can I shoehorn them all into the team, rather than what's the best team I can play.
They do this with subs as well. Bring off a player, let's say a winger for example and bring on a midfielder. Then one of the midfielder's on the pitch goes into the winger's position while the sub goes in his. 5-10 minutes later he'll take off the midfielder that moved position and bring on a winger for him and you think well why didn't you just change them both at the same time?
Well, they got a couple of defenders in. Turns out they absolutely had to, as Matip is out for the rest of the season. It will be interesting to see how well those new guys get into the team, but this week and weekend's games will hardly be the place to start, apart from maybe a late sub tomorrow night for Kabak. Fully expecting Henderson and Phillips to start that one, and then Hendo and Fabinho against City.
Titch
Premier League
- 4 October 2004
Third worst title defence of Premier League champions I read yesterday 😱
Andy
Evoweb Jester/Stadboardmaker.
And we've still got 13 games to go. We could end up worse.
What's going on Kloppo? The loosing one...?
Dennis_87
Physics n' Animations Fan
- 27 September 2017
This team has some overrated mediocre players and the fact that he has won titles with them is big enough on it's own.But now the problems are showing...you can't hide them for ever...I mean,having Firmino for your main striker..?Really..?
Also the players he got in January like Philips and that other young guy from Schalke are just not good enough for a top team.
Just take a look at Man City's bench alone and the quality they have...They would be first team starters for most other teams worldwide..
The difference in quality is very big..Liverpool need to spend serious money if they want to compete for the next years..Especially if City signs Messi in the summer which i think it is very likely to happen.
Also the players he got in January like Philips and that other young guy from Schalke are just not good enough for a top team.
Just take a look at Man City's bench alone and the quality they have...They would be first team starters for most other teams worldwide..
The difference in quality is very big..Liverpool need to spend serious money if they want to compete for the next years..Especially if City signs Messi in the summer which i think it is very likely to happen.
I also think he will come back to Anfield.
But hopefully he will be better than Lampard with chelsea.
Six loss in a row at home...
Steven, when?
Steven, when?
Seems to be something seriously wrong here. Maybe it's also highlighting the weakness of the squad? After all they were 99% injury free all last season.
I also think it's highlighting that over the last two seasons so many of the so called top teams are incredibly inconsistent. Last season Liverpool were ultra consistent (I think they won 14 games by a single goal?). This season it's been Man City. And that together with every other team having no consistency at all is leading to relatively easy title wins for both. You just have to take Man Utd, draw at Palace, lose to Sheffield Utd, go to the Etihad and win 2-0? Crazy.
I also think it's highlighting that over the last two seasons so many of the so called top teams are incredibly inconsistent. Last season Liverpool were ultra consistent (I think they won 14 games by a single goal?). This season it's been Man City. And that together with every other team having no consistency at all is leading to relatively easy title wins for both. You just have to take Man Utd, draw at Palace, lose to Sheffield Utd, go to the Etihad and win 2-0? Crazy.
Much depends on the midweek game in the Champions League. RB Leipzig will be rubbing their hands together in anticipation, having seen the mess of things that Liverpool have been making at home. If Livepool can get through that, I think this season can be somewhat salvaged still. Klopp is going nowhere. The dude made Liverpool champions for the first time in 30 years, and European Champions for the first time since 2005, he would have to take a bulldozer to the Shankly statue at Anfield before anyone would consider sacking him.
PeterC10
Championship
Hard to know where to start with this mess. 
First of all, I don't want Klopp sacked by any means. And that's not out of sentimentality, I honestly think he is the best man for the job long term.
This season has been crazy, I don't want to go over injuries too much because it's been done to death but honestly this is unprecedented. I do feel if we go into next season with a healthy squad a lot of these issues will go away.
There is plenty of blame to go around. We haven't really invested enough since winning the Champions League. We let Moreno and Sturridge go but didn't get in a replacement. The smaller squad goes on to win the league (and to be honest we were incredibly unlucky to not win the league before with 97 points...) but too few players were playing too many minutes in a pretty intense system. I actually thought our business last summer was decent, but it is unacceptable that we went into the season with just 3 senior centre backs, two of which were known to be injury prone. Whether that was the decision of the board, Klopp or both, it was really poor and completely avoidable.
With our relatively small squad (compares to the likes of City, Chelsea etc) playing this way, we've always tended to have a pretty big drop off after mid-week games in Europe for example, but this season has been extra compact for obvious reasons and I think that has exacerbated the issue. We've had these issues pretty much since the start of the season, yet somehow we were top at Christmas.
Despite a good start Klopp has had a pretty awful season it has to be said. He has often bemoaned the lack of 5 subs rule in the Premier League. After the Brighton game in November he said we needed the extra substitutions just to protect his players. Then days later in the Champions League, where 5 subs are allowed, I think he only makes 2 changes?! Lost the argument there and then. To add to this, he also played far too strong a team against Midtjylland which was a literal dead rubber. Players who would have greatly benefited from some rare rest were played for no gain (plus also lost Jota to a 3 month injury...). Similar against Villa's kids in the FA Cup, the likes of Wijnaldum and Fabinho deserved a break more than anyone in the team yet they played. I just can't get my head around that.
And tactically the insistence to stick with a high line in defence, even when our centre back pairing consists of Rhys Williams and Nat Phillips who have done well but are not fast by any means, is extremely confusing. Last season teams could play the game of their lives against us yet we'd still find a way to get the three points. This season, teams just need to sit back and then look for the long ball over the top, guaranteed success pretty much. It doesn't explain why suddenly we can barely create any chances going forwards but I'm sure it plays a part.
It is a huge failure of the club that we didn't have a centre back signed on the 1st January this year. We knew Van Dijk and Gomez were out for the season weeks before the transfer window opened. Yet we did nothing, and mostly likely if Matip didn't get a season ending injury just before the window closed, we'd probably not have signed anyone on the cheap and somehow be in an even worse situation than we are now.
There are so many circumstances that have come together to make this a really difficult situation for Klopp, but he really should be doing better. With the teams we've put out the last couple of months we should at least be challenging for the top 4. But having said that, Klopp has made us English, European and World Champions in a process of a few years without the same financial backing of City, Chelsea, United etc. The club's value has absolutely soared in his time here, and he is the biggest reason for that. He deserves proper backing to try and fix this, but I don't think we need such a huge overhaul of the squad as has been suggested elsewhere.
Actually this whole situation would make a good scenario in Football Manager.
First of all, I don't want Klopp sacked by any means. And that's not out of sentimentality, I honestly think he is the best man for the job long term.
This season has been crazy, I don't want to go over injuries too much because it's been done to death but honestly this is unprecedented. I do feel if we go into next season with a healthy squad a lot of these issues will go away.
There is plenty of blame to go around. We haven't really invested enough since winning the Champions League. We let Moreno and Sturridge go but didn't get in a replacement. The smaller squad goes on to win the league (and to be honest we were incredibly unlucky to not win the league before with 97 points...) but too few players were playing too many minutes in a pretty intense system. I actually thought our business last summer was decent, but it is unacceptable that we went into the season with just 3 senior centre backs, two of which were known to be injury prone. Whether that was the decision of the board, Klopp or both, it was really poor and completely avoidable.
With our relatively small squad (compares to the likes of City, Chelsea etc) playing this way, we've always tended to have a pretty big drop off after mid-week games in Europe for example, but this season has been extra compact for obvious reasons and I think that has exacerbated the issue. We've had these issues pretty much since the start of the season, yet somehow we were top at Christmas.
Despite a good start Klopp has had a pretty awful season it has to be said. He has often bemoaned the lack of 5 subs rule in the Premier League. After the Brighton game in November he said we needed the extra substitutions just to protect his players. Then days later in the Champions League, where 5 subs are allowed, I think he only makes 2 changes?! Lost the argument there and then. To add to this, he also played far too strong a team against Midtjylland which was a literal dead rubber. Players who would have greatly benefited from some rare rest were played for no gain (plus also lost Jota to a 3 month injury...). Similar against Villa's kids in the FA Cup, the likes of Wijnaldum and Fabinho deserved a break more than anyone in the team yet they played. I just can't get my head around that.
And tactically the insistence to stick with a high line in defence, even when our centre back pairing consists of Rhys Williams and Nat Phillips who have done well but are not fast by any means, is extremely confusing. Last season teams could play the game of their lives against us yet we'd still find a way to get the three points. This season, teams just need to sit back and then look for the long ball over the top, guaranteed success pretty much. It doesn't explain why suddenly we can barely create any chances going forwards but I'm sure it plays a part.
It is a huge failure of the club that we didn't have a centre back signed on the 1st January this year. We knew Van Dijk and Gomez were out for the season weeks before the transfer window opened. Yet we did nothing, and mostly likely if Matip didn't get a season ending injury just before the window closed, we'd probably not have signed anyone on the cheap and somehow be in an even worse situation than we are now.
There are so many circumstances that have come together to make this a really difficult situation for Klopp, but he really should be doing better. With the teams we've put out the last couple of months we should at least be challenging for the top 4. But having said that, Klopp has made us English, European and World Champions in a process of a few years without the same financial backing of City, Chelsea, United etc. The club's value has absolutely soared in his time here, and he is the biggest reason for that. He deserves proper backing to try and fix this, but I don't think we need such a huge overhaul of the squad as has been suggested elsewhere.
Actually this whole situation would make a good scenario in Football Manager.