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Liverpool Thread

Re: Liverpool Thread

Don't care about money, wages, transfers etc. It's all an excuse really.

Rafa's to blame for this, and the players are to blame for this. Remember Gerrard speaking about how the team had meetings, and got things off their chest? Something seems wrong in the dressing room.

Positives though, Ngog looks like a star. Don't really need another striker, if he keeps going. And we've got one of the best keepers in the world.

Derby time, and form goes out of the window. Perfect opportunity to kick on from the win yesterday. One thing we do know is that once Rafa's teams get going, they're almost unstoppable.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

PetrovLFC said:
Basically everyone is being impatient. This craving for instant success is ridiculous. 5 Seasons of football is not a long time. All of a sudden Benitez is being judged on 3 months of bad results with yet another victory against the League Champions thrown in.

I know I sound like a really staunch Rafa fan. Guilty. So I'll do a bit of critisising now. Benayoun should not be played on the wing, it limits his creativity and he is not suited for that position because he isnt exactly quick, nor strong and he doesnt have a powerful shot. Dirk Kuyt should be rested, he couldnt trap a bag of cement last night. He plays non stop for club and country. Yes he probably has one of the best stanima levels in world football, but humans have limits.

And finally, we need to change the formation. The 4-2-3-1 that we switched to a while back worked well when we had the players to play in it. Lucas and Mascherano are solid, but too simlar, we aren't really conceeding too many from open play, they are doing a good defensive job, but this has placed more onus on the wide men in the 3, and they simply havent been upto scrath this season (kuyt) or we've had to constantly change our left sided player from Reira/Babel/Benayoun. And only one of those players can offer real width and balance. Every teams we've struggled against has pressed us, and it has thrown us off our game, amasingly the one team that didnt press us well enough was United and they were punished by Benayoun (playing centrally i might add)

Ngog has been a massive plus this season, but its asking alot of him to develop with confidence, playing upfront on his own in such high pressure games when he is still so raw. (its been mentioned here that every game seems to be a massive high pressure situation now)

I would actually consider using Gerrard in a wide positon if that means Aquilani can play further forward or that Benayoun gets more time in the middle. If Benayoun is in the middle if gives him more angles, more space, and he has more options with regards to supporting runs.
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Abhi what are you views on the system we are playing?
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I for 1 w`d be watching EUFA Cup with much more enthusiasm that Pool is in it! My boy support Pool and he`s happy and said "yes our club needs a Europa Cup then turns to me wouldn`t Wenger like one too Popz" :COAT: yeah he`s a teenager go figure lil cunt
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

@ Abishek - from what I saw of Everton over the weekend, you have absolutely nothing to worry about. They're a shadow of last year.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

PetrovLFC said:
Abhi what are you views on the system we are playing?
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Agree with your views there.

IMO, the 4-2-3-1 is fundamentally a rigid/restricted system. And it works when the players are doing specific jobs. And we had that last year. Especially with Xabi, he was so good, he'd make everyone else play better.

Without Xabi though, it's suddenly changed. You need Masch to do more than just press, and win the ball back. You need Gerrard to drop back more. You need Torres to hold the ball more. You need the wingers to be more involved in the build up. And then you need Lucas to not only pass the ball around, but win it back, as well as support the attack. And I'd say any of them aren't exactly doing their complete job.

Rafa might have wanted a more fluid style, but we're just not getting there, are we? I think if we look at ourselves, our best players play their best football, in the center of the field. And our best wide players are our full backs. And I just don't think this system utilises that. Just something we could come up with

Reina
Johnson Carra Agger Insua
Lucas Masch Aquilani
Gerrard Yossi
Torres

Similar to the Christmas tree formation. It's just an idea, but you could see, we can just flood the midfield with quality on the ball, as well as physical attributes, rather than simply a playmaker. Get Yossi and Gerrard behind Torres, and either of them can pull out wide to provide an outball. And let the full backs push forward. Anything really, just to provide a change. Because what we have, it's not working without Xabi.

Doubt anything will happen. Kuyt will keep running up and down that right wing forever.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I said before the season started that you'd need to change your formation without Xabi.

Arsenal lost Adebayor and changed to a 4-3-3.

We lost Ronaldo and changed to a 4-4-2.

You guys lost Alonso and...?
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

You lose width with the christmas tree formation. Something like that can only work when you have a Ashley Cole or a Evra in your team.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

just a thought for those who think we should sack rafa etc. etc.

in 2005/06 Man Utd finished bottom of their Champions League group, finished 2nd in the league 8 points behind Chelsea and finished the season with just the Carling Cup.

Since then they've won the league 3 times and won the European Cup because they stuck with the manager who did come in for a lot of stick that season and trusted him to strengthen and improve the team for the following season, which he did and they won the league that season.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

UJSupanova said:
just a thought for those who think we should sack rafa etc. etc.

in 2005/06 Man Utd finished bottom of their Champions League group, finished 2nd in the league 8 points behind Chelsea and finished the season with just the Carling Cup.

Since then they've won the league 3 times and won the European Cup because they stuck with the manager who did come in for a lot of stick that season and trusted him to strengthen and improve the team for the following season, which he did and they won the league that season.
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Yep, United fans seem to have conveniently forgotten that season it seems.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Funnily enough, the CL exit actually helped us cement 2nd place and have that Carling Cup run.

Although we hadn't already lost 8 times in the season when we were knocked out, as well as we were still in the title race.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

More to do with Saha returning from injury and keeping RvN on the bench with his consistent goalscoring in the second half of the season.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Lets not forget, we didnt win as much as expected because Chelsea had raised the bar under Mourinho and not because we had become a bad side. But Liverpool this year have been poor so comparing the two situations isnt right. And seeing how the season is only about a third of the way in, you guys are still on course to having a season worse than the one we had in 05/06 anyway. I know it sounds a little cocky but if you were 7th a few years ago in the league then I would have been quite sure you would have pulled yourelf back up (even though Everton once kept you out of the top 4 :P), but looking at the teams above you and how strong they've become, I wouldnt be surprised if you can't make the CL next year.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

DagsJT said:
Yep, United fans seem to have conveniently forgotten that season it seems.
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Haven't forgotten one bit. Chelsea were unstoppable in every area of the pitch, which is what you get when you outspend all of your rivals by multiples (and had the special one). That challenge is what kept Fergie going, he rose to it and, I'd like to think, proved a whole host of people wrong in the end.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - Rafa is your best bet. Lose him at your peril.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

by matching Chelsea spending and Ronaldo coming out of his shell that some proving :LOL: sometime you have to leave your principles and throw money at it to see what happens.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

beboq said:
by matching Chelsea spending and Ronaldo coming out of his shell that some proving :LOL: sometime you have to leave your principles and throw money at it to see what happens.
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Wow, revisionist much? We made the massive splurge of 1 Michael Carrick that offseason...broke the bank!

(it was the next season we got Hargreaves, Nani and Anderson)
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Thing is in 05/06 we already had the team, It was a very young side. Rooney 19, Ronaldo 20, Just had Evra and Vidic come into the side, The team just needed to mature and with Carrick and Scholes back from his eye injury that same side won the league, got to the final of the FA Cup and the semi's of the Champions League, We then improved the squad.

Currently you guys aren't a young side. Gerrard and Torres aren't going to get better in the same way Rooney/Ronaldo did. You have a good team but not one as good as Chelsea's and ours with not much scope for improvement in current players bar what Aquilani brings.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

YoungGun_UK said:
Thing is in 05/06 we already had the team, It was a very young side. Rooney 19, Ronaldo 20, Just had Evra and Vidic come into the side, The team just needed to mature and with Carrick and Scholes back from his eye injury that same side won the league, got to the final of the FA Cup and the semi's of the Champions League, We then improved the squad.

Currently you guys aren't a young side. Gerrard and Torres aren't going to get better in the same way Rooney/Ronaldo did. You have a good team but not one as good as Chelsea's and ours with not much scope for improvement in current players bar what Aquilani brings.
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the average age of the team that played against Debreceni was only 25, there's only Carragher, Gerrard and Kuyt who are over 27 in the normal team and normally we wouldn't have Aurelio (30) on the left wing.

We've got a good young squad with a load of players between 23 and 26. The back four for the next few years will probable by Johnson, Agger, Skrtel, Insua. They have an average age of 23. Then there's Mascherano, Lucas and Aquilani who are 25, 22 and 25 respectively, then up front there's Torres, N'Gog, Babel who are all young players.

We've got plenty of years left in this squad, N'Gog is getting better every time he plays, Lucas is also improving a lot and gets a lot of undeserved stick.

Take Kuyt out of the side and put Benayoun or Babel in and we'd have a lot more imagination going forward i thnk.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

We're not an old team, we probably lack a bit of experience more than anything.

its like the recent Liverpool v Arsenal cup tie.

The average age of the teams ended up with Arsenals being lower by a year or two. Yet the media seemed to imply only Arsenal played a young team with players like Almunia, Silvestre and Gallas playing.

And dont get me started on United's "kids" last night.

Neville, Brown, Vidic, Park :D
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

PetrovLFC said:
We're not an old team, we probably lack a bit of experience more than anything.

its like the recent Liverpool v Arsenal cup tie.

The average age of the teams ended up with Arsenals being lower by a year or two. Yet the media seemed to imply only Arsenal played a young team with players like Almunia, Silvestre and Gallas playing.

And dont get me started on United's "kids" last night.

Neville, Brown, Vidic, Park :D
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Erm, Rafael, Anderson, Gibson, Macheda, Obertan, Welbeck...highest age of 22...

But well chosen examples :)
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

DagsJT said:
There's a discussion on RAWK about Van Nistelrooy, and someone said

:LMAO:
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Hehe, yeah the guardian podcast made a similar one.

I'd like to think Ruud would never go to Pool. He was a United fan even while at Madrid. In fact, I'd be happy with us spending just to stop him going there ;)

Best natural goal scorer I've ever seen play the game. Probably my favourite player too.

And as you point out, he can heal himself!
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Brilliant player, not fussed if he moves to you.

Also on the youngster's, Im not certain about them all but I'd put money on Rafael, Fabio, Evans and Obertan all becoming at the minimum squad players and that's not including the likes of Macheda, Welbeck, Ljajic who could also do similar. Apart from Ngog and Insua I don't see anyone else breaking through for you guys.
 
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