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Liverpool Thread

Re: Liverpool Thread

Haven't we been over this before?

http://www.liverpoolfc.tv/news/drilldown/NG163483090304-1429.htm

And that link you gave, YG, is clearly rubbish anyway. They've got their own table on there to show "Rapha's" spending since he arrived, but that doesn't take into account the likes of Ferdinand costing Utd £30m before "Rapha" even arrived. Pretty sloppy site and "facts".

This is pretty boring now, we've had this conversation before and Utd fans are never going to see it any other way than they do so trying to bring out figures isn't going to convert anyones opinion.

At the end of the day, we've had a very good year and we've improved hugely since Rafa has arrived. Some United fans will admit to that (already have) while some others are just too obsessed to look at the reality of it all and keep going on and on and on.

It'll be interesting when Fergie retires and another manager comes in, what if United aren't as successful? I wonder how the obsessive United fans will react then?

They'll probably be supporting Man City by then though ;)
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

Why would Ferguson congratulate Rafa for winning the FA Cup against West Ham? It's different. All those quotes were from the manager's that came 2nd.

And as I said a couple of pages back, that terrible, dreadful team Rafa inherited, was the one he won the CL with, no?? Can't have been that bad.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Jumbo_ said:
Why would Ferguson congratulate Rafa for winning the FA Cup against West Ham? It's different. All those quotes were from the manager's that came 2nd.

And as I said a couple of pages back, that terrible, dreadful team Rafa inherited, was the one he won the CL with, no?? Can't have been that bad.
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Winning a cup is very different to challenging for a league title, right? That's what we kept getting told by United fans whenever we won cups and kept finishing fourth anyway ...

Yep, Porto won the CL as well. I wonder how they'd have faired in the Premier League with that team, I doubt they'd have won it.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Why should Rafa congratulate Ferguson?

I see that Rafa Benítez is being criticised for not congratulating Alex Ferguson upon United’s success.

After the West Brom game, Rafa said:

"I prefer just to say well done to the club, a big club, a good club. Normally you have to be polite and respect the other manager but during the season we have seen a lot of things that I didn't like, so that's it. I say congratulations to United because they have won. And that's it."

Surely that’s more than enough? After all, Ferguson is hardly noted for his grace in defeat, is he? When Liverpool had humped his team 4-1 at Old Trafford, Ferguson said United had been the better side. That’s the mark of the man’s generosity. Very humble, Sir Alex.

The fact is Ferguson dislikes anyone who has the temerity to put up a challenge to his side. Arsene Wenger is now his best pal, given that Arsenal are a distant 4th. Years ago he despised him.

And anyway, why should Rafa congratulate a man who, in conjunction with his fat-headed best pal, launched a hugely personal attack on him, calling his actions ‘beyond the pale’ over some innocent gestures that only two men in the whole world took offence to, and only did so six days after the event? (Not that they discussed and planned it during their regular phone chats.)

Rafa’s ‘rant’ may have been badly timed, but it was an open and honest assessment – at least from his point of view. Ill-advised it might have been, but there was no deceit involved. He told the watching world what he thought, for better or worse.

What Allardyce and Ferguson conspired to do was dirty, underhand, personal and pathetic. It involved managers of two different Premiership clubs trying to discredit another.

But it’s been wiped under the carpet, as has Ferguson’s laughable pre-match press conference for the Fulham game, when he bizarrely listed a load of inaccurate figures about Liverpool’s spending. You’d think Rafa’s ‘rant’ was the only thing that took place this season.

United won the league, so congratulations to them. Yes, they benefitted from the worst refereeing decision of the season when they appeared to be choking big-time against Spurs, but their extra experience and depth to their squad saw them over the line, Howard Webb’s inexplicable intervention notwithstanding.

But next season could be when it gets really interesting.
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:LOL: Yep!
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I dont really know what you mean mate?

About Porto, they won their domestic league the same year they won the CL as well as the season before and they also won the UEFA Cup too. They had a good team and Mourinho was the manager so I dont see what you meant there?

RE: the second post, that article lost all credibility with the sentence "Yes, they benefitted from the worst refereeing decision of the season when they appeared to be choking big-time against Spurs, but their extra experience and depth to their squad saw them over the line, Howard Webb’s inexplicable intervention notwithstanding.".
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

Jumbo_ said:
I dont really know what you mean mate?

About Porto, they won their domestic league the same year they won the CL as well as the season before and they also won the UEFA Cup too. They had a good team and Mourinho was the manager so I dont see what you meant there?
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By your reasoning a team that wins the CL is a team that can't be that bad ... you're implying we had a good team as we won the CL?

Put the CL-winning Porto team into the Premier League and see where they'd have finished, I doubt they'd have challenged for the title then too.

On the same note, United have had some cracking teams over the years and haven't won the CL as much as they could've/should've. Winning the league and winning the CL don't necessarily go hand in hand and mean you're good enough to win the other.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

What if it's actually down to you, Rafa?

What if Ole Gunnar Solskjaer had flicked out a right boot only to lift the ball high over the bar against Bayern Munich in injury time?

What if Leeds United had refused to sell Eric Cantona on that fateful day in November 1992?

What if Mark Robins had failed to save his manager's job by scoring in a third-round FA Cup tie at Nottingham Forest 19 years ago?
Rafa Benitez

Liverpool boss Rafa Benitez: he's wrong to shift the blame

The answer in each case is that Sir Alex Ferguson would not be where he is today, preparing to collect his third successive title before heading to Rome, while he looks proudly down from his managerial throne on Rafa Benitez and the rest.

Life is full of 'what ifs?' Everyone can write an alternative history of how things could have been very different, if only.

Never more so than in sport, where fractions can be the difference between everlasting glory and enduring ignominy.

But Benitez, perhaps feeling a sudden twinge from his stigmata again, decided to play the martyr as he declared a malign fate had somehow conspired against his club this season.

Anfield's boss claimed he could have won the Premier League ahead of Manchester United if only Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres had been fit on a few more occasions this season.

He argued that this was the real reason Liverpool now find themselves heading towards their 20th year without the title they so desperately crave.

It's a seductive thought and one that will even seem valid to many of the Kop faithful. Gerrard is a powerhouse and a true matchwinner. Torres is a sublime striker.

There is no doubting their worth and the absence of the duo has clearly had some effect on the season.

But so what? By that logic, my aunt would have been my uncle had she been born with a different set of genitalia.

Like many managers, Benitez often comes out with these pet theories to distract from his own shortcomings, dressing up excuses and peddling them as the 'facts' he professes to live by.

Every season is a maze of twists and turns, of good and bad luck, of wise decisions and errors. Every manager is beset by injury problems.

Rather than ask what might have happened if Gerrard and Torres were fit, Benitez would have been better served addressing other questions, although I suspect he might not like the answers.

Questions like: What if he'd been braver and played more positive football when Liverpool had a lead at the top of the table and United were away in Japan?

What if he hadn't drawn 11 games and allowed United to seize back control?

What if he'd actually used Robbie Keane properly during Torres's absence, instead of shunting him out the door?

What if he'd kept his counsel instead of launching that distracting attack on Ferguson?

What if he had played key players more often instead of leaving them on the bench?

What if he had bought more wisely and gathered together a squad better equipped for the challenges of a long season

I'd imagine his rivals could easily ask pertinent questions of their own.

What if United had started the season with a completely fit Cristiano Ronaldo and Wayne Rooney? Would the title race have been over long ago?
Rafa Benitez

Rafa Benitez has argued that Liverpool would have won the title had Steven Gerrard and Fernando Torres been fit all season

What if Owen Hargreaves had been available and running the midfield? What if Liverpool's squad players had taken on the responsibility presented to them in the way Jonny Evans, Darren Fletcher and Ji-sung Park have at Old Trafford?

What if Guus Hiddink had been Chelsea manager from the kick-off? What if Michael Essien had been fit all season?

What if Didier Drogba had been of sound body and mind throughout the entire campaign (OK, just body). Or Joe Cole, for that matter? Would Benitez still be in the runners-up spot?

What if Arsenal had not lost William Gallas, Tomas Rosicky, Eduardo, Gael Clichy, Robin van Persie, Cesc Fabregas, Theo Walcott and others at various points of the season, do you think that might have made a difference?

Benitez's argument is too simplistic. United disappeared to the Far East in mid-season to compete for the Club World Cup and Liverpool singularly failed to press home the advantage they had been given.

Remember, too, United went all the way to Wembley to win the Carling Cup final and reached the FA Cup semi-final. They did not flop out of both domestic cup competitions in the fourth round and have the luxury of some slack in their fixture list like Benitez.

The difference was Ferguson had a squad in place that was able to cope with the widespread demands and imponderables of a season. And rather than ask 'what if?' perhaps it's time to ask Benitez 'why?'

Why is he blaming injuries when his expensive collection of players has been amassed over five years? Why doesn't he have a squad deep enough to cope?

Why is Benitez blaming a lack of 'financial power' when he spent £7million on a third-choice left back and £40m last summer?

Destiny is often said to be a fool's excuse for failure. Yes, Liverpool are undoubtedly closer to United and Benitez is right to insist they are genuine contenders.

But it's not going to be any easier next time and the uncomfortable truth is they had an enormous opportunity to win the league this season and they blew it.

Posing irrelevant, hypothetical questions is not going to provide meaningful answers as to why that happened.
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[url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-1182871/DES-KELLY-What-Liverpools-failure-actually-Rafa.html[/URL]
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

What if Gerrard and Torres (our two best, and most influential, players started more than 1/3 of our games this season?

:YAWN:
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Well Porto's team was very good, but how would we ever know if it would do well in the Premiership? That's stupid! They had Deco, Carvalho, Victor Baia, Jorge Costa, Costinha, Maniche and more plus Mourinho in charge so it was by no means a poor team.

I'm not talking about whether I think you had a good team or not. Winning the CL is an impressive achievement with any team, I'm sure you'll agree. All I'm saying is that the excuse or defence or whatever it is that Rafa inherited a crap team is overstated and inaccurate because of the fact he won it with them, something he hasnt managed since for whatever reason.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

And as I said a couple of pages back, that terrible, dreadful team Rafa inherited, was the one he won the CL with, no?? Can't have been that bad.
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DJIMI TRAORE! I think he's a cleaner now at the age of 26..........Or IGOR BISCAN, so bad he was amusing even to Pool fans.

The discussion has gone back down to sh$%e now that Manu have wrapped up the title.

The spending argument is nonsense either way. Manu's spending (since Benitez has arrived) has been to complement the already top squad in place, Benitez has needed to replace the whole squad. Spending 200mil on 6 or 7 players compared to spending it on 25/25 players is a big difference. You can argue that he should have spunked it on one 30mil player per season but which top players will move to a 2nd rate team. Which we were back then. You only have to look at the effect Robinho has had on ManCity to see that that is not the way to build a squad/team, especially when you have no idea whether you can sustain the tranfers.

Sick of coming in here now, a few years ago Liverpool weren't anything as they weren't challenging for the league, now they aren't anything as they didn't win a cup (which meant nothing when not challenging for the league). 1st the team that won the CL was a fluke and pure luck and now it's a sign of how the team hasn't gone forward because they must have been good back then to win the CL.

Honestly, if you don't have anything worthwhile to say but talk the team down, just f#$k off! The loss of any humility now the league is wrapped up and you aren't shitting yourself (I seem to remember quite a few "giving" the league away a few weeks ago) just goes to highlight how pathetic and a bunch of WUM you are. I'll come back next season.........as even if you lose the CL final I will have the decency not to troll.

EDIT

And before you get the wrong idea, as I quoted your comment, it's not a personal attack at you Jumbo, just a general one at the Manu fans in here.
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

Gerrard's played more league games than Rooney (our equivilent player), he's only missed 7 games.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

PetrovLFC said:
can i just remind people of our squad when Rafa arrived:

Dudek, Kirkland, Finnan, Riise, Traore, Hyypia, Henchoz, Ostemobor, Hamann, Diao, Biscan, Gerrard, Kewell, Smicer, Le Tallec, Welsh, Cheyrou, Mellor, Pongolle, Cisse, Baros & Diouf.
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So Jumbo, you think those are good players? Title-winning players?

Henchoz? Diao? Biscan? Smicer? Le Tallec? Cheyrou? Pongolle? Cisse? Baros? Diouf?
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

TikTikTikTikTik said:
DJIMI TRAORE! I think he's a cleaner now at the age of 26..........Or IGOR BISCAN, so bad he was amusing even to Pool fans.

The discussion has gone back down to sh$%e now that Manu have wrapped up the title.

The spending argument is nonsense either way. Manu's spending (since Benitez has arrived) has been to complement the already top squad in place, Benitez has needed to replace the whole squad. Spending 200mil on 6 or 7 players compared to spending it on 25/25 players is a big difference. You can argue that he should have spunked it on one 30mil player per season but which top players will move to a 2nd rate team. Which we were back then. You only have to look at the effect Robinho has had on ManCity to see that that is not the way to build a squad/team, especially when you have no idea whether you can sustain the tranfers.

Sick of coming in here now, a few years ago Liverpool weren't anything as they weren't challenging for the league, now they aren't anything as they didn't win a cup (which meant nothing when not challenging for the league). 1st the team that won the CL was a fluke and pure luck and now it's a sign of how the team hasn't gone forward because they must have been good back then to win the CL.

Honestly, if you don't have anything worthwhile to say but talk the team down, just f#$k off! The loss of any humility now the league is wrapped up and you aren't shitting yourself (I seem to remember quite a few "giving" the league away a few weeks ago) just goes to highlight how pathetic and a bunch of WUM you are. I'll come back next season.........as even if you lose the CL final I will have the decency not to troll.
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Excellent post, really well said :APPLAUD:
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

It doesnt matter what I think, I'm not trying to have a fucking argument, I'm just saying you cant constantly say Rafa had a shit team because you won the CL with that team. It's just another excuse, which that article Abou posted shows Benitez likes to make to cover his own ineptitude.

Right, lets just get this straight. I think Rafa's a good manager, I think that Liverpool have had a great season and have a good team.

It just gets me that he and Pool fans constantly blame various different things for the fact he hasn't won the league yet, and then make out they are hard done by. Your fans were calling for his head not long ago, now he is the greatest manager of all time who is conspired against by one and all.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

It's the Liverpool thread, what do you expect?! And if any of us starts whinging in the Manu thread tell us to f#$k off. :D
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Just to put the title win into perspective:

Late winners (last 10 minutes):
Liverpool: seven (five in injury time)
(Torres '83 vs. Sunderland... Pogatetz '85 & Gerrard '90 vs. Boro... Kuyt '90 vs. City... Kuyt '85 vs. Wigan... Torres '89 & '90 vs. Chelsea... Torres '90 vs. Portsmouth... Benayoun '90 vs. Fulham)

Man Utd: five (three in injury time)
(Vidic '90 vs. Sunderland... Tevez '83 vs. Stoke... Berbatov '90 vs. Bolton... Macheda '90 vs. Villa... Carrick '86 vs. Wigan)

Red cards for:
Liverpool: ten
(Vidic x2, Tim Cahill, Dunne, A. Valencia, Adebayor, Friedel, Folan, Barton, Lampard)
Man Utd: two
(Andy Wilkinson of Stoke... Paul Robinson of West Brom)

Red cards against:
Liverpool: zero. Not a single one.
Man Utd: five
(Vidic x2... Ronaldo... Scholes... Rooney)

Penalties for:
Liverpool: five
(vs. Portsmouth... vs. Man Utd... vs. Villa (x2)... vs. West Ham)
Man Utd: four
(Ronaldo vs. Bolton... vs. Everton... vs. Liverpool... vs. Spurs)

Penalties against:
Liverpool: two
(Ronaldo... Mido)
Man Utd: three
(Giovanni... Gerrard... D. Murphy)

You guys were given more penalties than us (and more at home), had less penalties given against you than us (and none at home, compared to our 3 for, 2 against at Old Trafford). They also had five times the amount of opposition players get sent off against them than we did (10 vs 2), were not given one red card all season whereas we had five to deal with, had less fixture congestion and less matches due to getting knocked out of every single cup competition before we did... and still we had it all wrapped up when you guys had 2 games left to play!
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Fucking hell Abou, give it a rest? Good to see you lot showing your humility eh? You've won the league and you're still pulling out all these stats and going on and on :BRICK: Why would a title-winning team still be obsessed with trying to prove points? Very humble lot ...

Beyond the pale.

TikTikTikTikTik said:
Honestly, if you don't have anything worthwhile to say but talk the team down, just f#$k off! The loss of any humility now the league is wrapped up and you aren't shitting yourself (I seem to remember quite a few "giving" the league away a few weeks ago) just goes to highlight how pathetic and a bunch of WUM you are. I'll come back next season.........as even if you lose the CL final I will have the decency not to troll
Click to expand...
 
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Re: Liverpool Thread

DagsJT said:
Fucking hell Abou, give it a rest? Good to see you lot showing your humility eh? You've won the league and you're still pulling out all these stats and going on and on :BRICK: Why would a title-winning team still be obsessed with trying to prove points? Very humble lot ...

Beyond the pale.
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:LMAO:

Btw, they're not stats, they're FACHTS! :SMUG:
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I think some of you are taking thinks to personally? Its a football forum what are we meant to discuess? Might aswell not bother otherwise then. Im going to leave it at that as it seems it hits a nerve to discuss Liverpool.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

FFS We've won the league, we don't need to be arguing in here and end up looking petty, let's enjoy our success and look forward to Rome and then next season.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Thanks for a great year lads. Was really nice having a team with some history pushing us, rather than the Belgravia FM XI.

Unlike some of the other United fans on here, I think Rafa's done a stirling job. He's taken Liverpool and cemented them firmly in the top 3 squads in the premiership, hardly a position he started in. And its cost lots of money no matter what source you use, but fooball costs a lot of money. United spend a lot, Chelsea spend a lot, Liverpool spend a lot and Spurs spend a lot. ;)

Next year should be very interesting. As the stats above point out, I think your having a (hopefully) fitter Torres will be somewhat balanced by not playing against 10 men in a quarter of matches (not saying its your fault or anything, just that I have to imaginei that's a record in a 38 game campaign) and also having a run in the cups. By next week United will have played 11 (or 12?) games more than you this season, and I think that has shown in their performances. Look how much better Liverpool have played when they've only had 1 game a week. It's no coincidence.

I think Rafa has gotten too much into some imaginary feud with Fergie. He should look back over the last 20 years at hte fact that Fergie spouts sh*t at anyone that could damage his chances of victory. The best coaches are hte ones who just brush it aside, instead of obsessing over it. As someone pointed out, when you're on the pitch you're enemies, fighting for every ball, thundering into each tackle. But when the final whistle goes, you're two grown men doing what you both love, and you shake hands and say well done. To not do so just shows that you've let it get to you too much. And by the way,I think the same for Fergie and his ridiculous no-shows on Sky. I understand his BBC policy, but the same isn't true of Sky and he needs to put his face in front of the camera.

Anyway, I bet you're going to get some big boys in over the summer, so Rafa will have more than enough to do putting them all into an effective first XI. Should be fun days ahead!
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

yeah likewise, congratulations on a good year. maybe rafa should have congratulated ferguson but in the end its just him it looks bad on.

although i will say that using torres and gerrard not playing together every game as an excuse isnt very fair, you could say the same about chelsea with essien and joe cole who along with lampard are their two most important players. the same with arsenal and half of their starting 11 being out.

its better this way anyways, at least no one can tell you you're a two man team. with the addition of a few more players this summer and a fully fit torres next season everythings in place for a good year.
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

I agree as well. I think you've had a good season, although I think you could have done better in the domestic cups. It will be interesting to see what happens next season as I can see Arsenal and Chelsea improving and you lot carrying this season's form into next season. Has all the making of being a very competitive title race!
 
Re: Liverpool Thread

Should we rename this the Man U thread and start a new Liverpool thread?
 
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