Let's FIFA 11/12/13: Making the perfect football game.

Proper AI needs a hard drive, so it can store long term memories rather than just adapting within a game and then forgetting as soon as the full time whistle blows. That's where the future of AI will lie - actual 'managers' who notice you keep using the same tactic and adapt their gameplan from the start. I remember reading something about this 3 or 4 years ago. EA also said they'd like the AI to be able to cover for you in Clubs when you're offline, by learning how you play.


Mentality does impact how high you play up the pitch (in terms of the midfield and attack), how many bodies you commit to going forward etc. It would be really helpful if we had a less opaque understanding of these things though.
 
Well all console's are now released with a HDD or enough flash memory so it should now longer be an issue to not do it. But that would be even better Rom, having "managers" review your matches/players as the season goes on and adjusting their tactics accordingly.
 
Seeing as they are going more and more to webbased editing (creationcentre / VirtualPro) why don't they let the gamediting also be completly online. So stadium names/assigments, custom tactics/formations, etc.
 
- Add different levels between defense and attack AI (semi-pro defense and legendary offense f.ex., if you find it very easy to defend but hard to attack)
- Swing and miss animations (f.ex. trying to volley with the weak foot or out of balance, and miss the ball)
 
lothario said:
- Add different levels between defense and attack AI (semi-pro defense and legendary offense f.ex., if you find it very easy to defend but hard to attack)
- Swing and miss animations (f.ex. trying to volley with the weak foot or out of balance, and miss the ball)
Click to expand...


Like both of those, there should be more errors in the game based on situation and ability...
 
romagnoli said:
Proper AI needs a hard drive, so it can store long term memories rather than just adapting within a game and then forgetting as soon as the full time whistle blows. That's where the future of AI will lie - actual 'managers' who notice you keep using the same tactic and adapt their gameplan from the start. I remember reading something about this 3 or 4 years ago. EA also said they'd like the AI to be able to cover for you in Clubs when you're offline, by learning how you play.


Mentality does impact how high you play up the pitch (in terms of the midfield and attack), how many bodies you commit to going forward etc. It would be really helpful if we had a less opaque understanding of these things though.
Click to expand...

I'd love something like this but for online play as well so you get to see how the player you've matched up with likes plays. Hot spots for dribbling/crossing/shots etc great idea I'd love implemented into the game. That's not necessarily changing the A.I but giving you visual information to work with on top of that.
 
Here's something for you to ponder.

I think Romagnoli has already complained about how unwieldy the squad/formation screens are, how everything takes so many button presses and how slow the menu transitions are. I also really dislike the way that even the most minor strategic tweak or substution has to be done via the pause menu in the first place.

Remember this? (click spoiler)


Sometimes I don't want to have to pause the game just to swap my starting striker with the striker on the bench... so sometimes I don't bother. It's near the end of the game and stamina is broken anyway, I'll just play it out. Sometimes I might think "the opposition is leaving gaps down their right flank, I'd like my left wingback to get forward a bit more", but can't raise the enthusiasm to plod through all the stages of the edit formation screens just to tweak one setting on a single player, be forced to save out the formation in a new slot, have that nagging doubt in the back of my mind over whether they actually fixed that bug where formation edits during a match didn't save properly (09), and return through the screens to get back to the match, by which point I've forgotten where the ball was and what I was doing.

I don't play online, but I would imagine that the hassle is exacerbated by the delays while one player makes changes and the other waits, or maybe they don't bother at all because neither of them wants to interrupt the game.

How much better would it be if people could make subs and tactical tweaks on the fly? Wouldn't it help to encourage a bit more strategic thinking, bring out the tactical side of football more, if the process was fluid and flexible?

So what would be the slickest way for FIFA to incorporate quick options for the above? I'm going to have a think and come back with something. Discuss :)
 
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I do believe quick substitutions is expected to be in for next year. Can't remember whether it was a dev or someone on here who spoke with EA, but it was mentioned recently this is a priority.

I know Rom has made a master post on the subject of menus so I'll just say I hope we get more change than just subs, not only in layout but also in options, like a deeper tactical system.
 
nerf said:
Here's something for you to ponder.

I think Romagnoli has already complained about how unwieldy the squad/formation screens are, how everything takes so many button presses and how slow the menu transitions are. I also really dislike the way that even the most minor strategic tweak or substution has to be done via the pause menu in the first place.

Remember this? (click spoiler)


Discuss :)
Click to expand...

Damn that takes me back, my Amiga was dying the last time I dug SWOS out, I dare not put it back on again as I know it will be toast...:CRY:
 
nerf said:
What do you think would constitute a deeper tactical system?
Click to expand...

I want greater control over how my team plays and as it is now, I don't think there's enough options in how we setup our team and I question whether they make all that great a difference. Part of this may in fact be due to an AI that is less than sufficient to truly allow for tactical play and greater variety in play styles.

To be honest I don't have any worthwhile suggestions to make though I think there was a great thread on this subject in the feedback forum over at EA. I haven't played PES since 2008 but I plan on buying it this year and I've heard good things about what they've done with tactics/strategy in the last couple years, so after I played that for a while hopefully I'll have a better feeling for what FIFA is missing.
 
mfmaxpower said:
I want greater control over how my team plays and as it is now, I don't think there's enough options in how we setup our team and I question whether they make all that great a difference. Part of this may in fact be due to an AI that is less than sufficient to truly allow for tactical play and greater variety in play styles.

To be honest I don't have any worthwhile suggestions to make though I think there was a great thread on this subject in the feedback forum over at EA. I haven't played PES since 2008 but I plan on buying it this year and I've heard good things about what they've done with tactics/strategy in the last couple years, so after I played that for a while hopefully I'll have a better feeling for what FIFA is missing.
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I disagree that the formation system isn't deep enough or is incapable of allowing players to play realistic formations (I concede that there are many unrealistic formations that are blocked by FIFA10...), I think the real problem with the tactics/formation screens is the nearly complete lack of instruction as to how they work.

Because I spend nearly all my time in Manager Mode (now career mode) and I like fiddling with formations, I've spent plenty of time in the tactics/formation menus of FIFA 10. And while the tactical editing menu instruction is pretty good, the formation editing options are terrible.

So there is a definite need for some overhaul of the formation settings, adding some instructions is a must. I'd also love to see some menu tweaks that can make making changes more efficient.

Quick substitutions would be fantastic. I'd also love a way to make some quick lineup changes when simming games as well.
 
EatonTJ said:
I disagree that the formation system isn't deep enough or is incapable of allowing players to play realistic formations (I concede that there are many unrealistic formations that are blocked by FIFA10...), I think the real problem with the tactics/formation screens is the nearly complete lack of instruction as to how they work.

Because I spend nearly all my time in Manager Mode (now career mode) and I like fiddling with formations, I've spent plenty of time in the tactics/formation menus of FIFA 10. And while the tactical editing menu instruction is pretty good, the formation editing options are terrible.

So there is a definite need for some overhaul of the formation settings, adding some instructions is a must. I'd also love to see some menu tweaks that can make making changes more efficient.

Quick substitutions would be fantastic. I'd also love a way to make some quick lineup changes when simming games as well.
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I'll agree more instructions would be nice but if you consider FIFA's tactical and strategic options to be sufficient, well we'll have to agree to disagree. Just curious, what's your take on team management in PES?
 
Is 'adding more instructions' really necessary for a purpose, or just for the sake of having more instructions? In games I'm often of the belief that less can be more, if applied correctly. I'm all for depth, but at the same time let's not forget this is a football action game and not a management sim.

I'm still playing FM2009, but I've heard about the Tactics Creator in FM2010. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but from the sounds of it they boiled player instructions down to two things: a role (e.g. deep playmaker, inside forward etc) and a duty (attack/support/defend).

To me that sounds like a perfect system. It uses real-world terminology that any football fan can understand, makes it more like how a real manager would instruct players (he doesn't say: 'I want you to play with Mentality 12 today'), and streamlines the whole system. Sure, you can then go and fiddle with the underlying slider values if you want, but it is a management sim. It strikes me as a much more elegant system.

I think this is the way FIFA should head with their formation options. What 'more instructions' (purely formation based, not Custom Tactics) would you want?

(This discussion sort of overlaps one that happened in the other suggestion thread. I can never quite figure out which thread this topic belongs in.)
 
nerf said:

So what would be the slickest way for FIFA to incorporate quick options for the above? I'm going to have a think and come back with something. Discuss :)
Click to expand...
I'm going to take that screenshot in a literal way, and propose the return of the Sensible Soccer 'Dugout'. It's such a neat and real-world method of performing quick changes within the match environment (go away, pause menu).

Quick Subs are pretty much essential, but I'd like it to incorporate more than that. The most important thing, I think, is number of button presses. The system has to be slick and easy and - most of all - as unintrusive as possible to the flow of human-vs-human play.

I think that whenever you have control of a dead ball (your throw-in, your goal-kick etc), you should be able to press the 'Dugout' button. This would immediately bring up a pop-up list of your eleven players' names. It doesn't have to literally show the dugout, and I'd certainly prefer it if there were no cut-away cameras; it's just a name for the pop-up menu more than anything.

You should be able to make changes quickly and clearly, in as few button presses as possible. Like these examples below:

I want to... throw one of my centre-backs up front for the remaining minutes:
+ Press the 'Dugout' button
(move cursor to highlight my CB)
+ Press Button2 to bring up a list of positions
(move cursor to highlight ST)
+ Press Button2 to select ST
+ Press the 'Dugout' button again to resume play
(= Four button presses, plus cursor movement)

I want to... switch my team to a preset 4411 formation:
+ Press the 'Dugout' button
+ Press Button4 to bring up list of preset formations
(move cursor to highlight 4411)
+ Press Button4 to select 4411
+ Press the 'Dugout' button again to resume play
(= Four button presses, plus cursor movement)

I want to... make my right fullback overlap up the flank more aggressively:
+ Press the 'Dugout' button
(move cursor to highlight my RB)
+ Press Button3 to toggle his personal instruction to an 'Attack' setting
+ Press the 'Dugout' button again to resume play
(= Three button presses, plus cursor movement)

I want to... sub my tired striker off for some fresh legs:
+ Press the 'Dugout' button
(move cursor to highlight my ST)
+ Press Button1 to select my ST
(move cursor to highlight another player in my squad, with fatigue bars and position visible)
+ Press Button1 to complete the swap
+ Press the 'Dugout' button again to resume play
(= Four button presses, plus cursor movement)

All of these should be performable in a matter of seconds, getting you straight back to the resumption of play in an average of, what, ten to twenty seconds at most? You could even add a fixed time limit for online play, if necessary.

Thoughts?
 
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nerf said:
I'm going to take that screenshot in a literal way, and propose the return of the Sensible Soccer 'Dugout'. It's such a neat and real-world method of performing quick changes within the match environment (go away, pause menu).

Quick Subs are pretty much essential, but I'd like it to incorporate more than that. The most important thing, I think, is number of button presses. The system has to be slick and easy and - most of all - as unintrusive as possible to the flow of human-vs-human play.

I think that whenever you have control of a dead ball (your throw-in, your goal-kick etc), you should be able to press the 'Dugout' button. This would immediately bring up a pop-up list of your eleven players' names. It doesn't have to literally show the dugout, and I'd certainly prefer it if there were no cut-away cameras; it's just a name for the pop-up menu more than anything.

You should be able to make changes quickly and clearly, in as few button presses as possible. Like these examples below:

I want to... throw one of my centre-backs up front for the remaining minutes:
+ Press the 'Dugout' button
(move cursor to highlight my CB)
+ Press Button2 to bring up a list of positions
(move cursor to highlight ST)
+ Press Button2 to select ST
+ Press the 'Dugout' button again to resume play
(= Four button presses, plus cursor movement)

I want to... switch my team to a preset 4411 formation:
+ Press the 'Dugout' button
+ Press Button4 to bring up list of preset formations
(move cursor to highlight 4411)
+ Press Button4 to select 4411
+ Press the 'Dugout' button again to resume play
(= Four button presses, plus cursor movement)

I want to... make my right fullback overlap up the flank more aggressively:
+ Press the 'Dugout' button
(move cursor to highlight my RB)
+ Press Button3 to toggle his personal instruction to an 'Attack' setting
+ Press the 'Dugout' button again to resume play
(= Three button presses, plus cursor movement)

I want to... sub my tired striker off for some fresh legs:
+ Press the 'Dugout' button
(move cursor to highlight my ST)
+ Press Button1 to select my ST
(move cursor to highlight another player in my squad, with fatigue bars and position visible)
+ Press Button1 to complete the swap
+ Press the 'Dugout' button again to resume play
(= Four button presses, plus cursor movement)

All of these should be performable in a matter of seconds, getting you straight back to the resumption of play in an average of, what, ten to twenty seconds at most? You could even add a fixed time limit for online play, if necessary.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Love it. Great ideas.
 
mfmaxpower said:
I'll agree more instructions would be nice but if you consider FIFA's tactical and strategic options to be sufficient, well we'll have to agree to disagree. Just curious, what's your take on team management in PES?
Click to expand...

Haven't played PES beyond exhibition mode since the jump to next gen. Always play on a friends console, I've been FIFA only since FIFA 09 for my career mode play so I can't say.

But going back to PES 6, I'd say their tactic/formation options were good enough. You could put players in any position on the field, assign them position arrows for attacking/defending, give them various roles, and assign their work-rate. That pretty much covers all the options needed for this type of footy game in my opinion.

I'd like to see off-the-ball runs improved in both games, but that's more a gameplay programming issue than a tactical options issue. IMO.
 
Right. Any new thoughts now 11's been out almost two weeks?

Problems with fundamental changes they've made? Or that they haven't made? What needs radically overhauling (no smartarse answers please!)?

Remember to keep it gameplay, rather than Career Mode/Clubs etc.

Please do feel free to type up massive posts that cover everything you feel EA should be looking to do for the next year/two years. The more detail, the more replays/vids/real life clips you have etc, the better. Saves me having to fill in the blanks! Just try and keep it structured if possible rather than thinking aloud, just so it's easier to refer back to and is easier to take in.

If you've posted something big and wordy in the general FIFA 11 thread then please do copy and paste it into here, I won't be marking you down... I'll try and pick some stuff out of there but I don't know how much time I'll have and I want to compile feedback and suggestions to get something sent off in the next couple of weeks. I don't know if I'll be doing it as enthusiastically as last year when I typed up a biblically sized e-mail and brought most of the Western world to a halt for three minutes while it uploaded, but I'll certainly be putting them forward to EA and also asking the other GC's what they think.

I've got my own thoughts of course, but (a) I don't want to influence things too much and (b) I'm too knackered to make a start now when I have to be up in 6 hours... Let's just say I've been making them known to the other GC's over the past few weeks and have already had a couple of "why don't you go and play PES" or "you're trying to make an ultra hardcore sim that won't be fun" statements cunningly worded towards me!

Trance_Allstar, plant your feet under the desk and get to work. Drek, stop abusing Xavi and Iniesta and tell the world what is wrong with pressuring vs dribbling. Rod, you are legally obliged to post in here, not least to make up for the number of times you've said "straw man" on the official forums. Tik x 5, get passing speed vs player speed unfucked. Klash, get your skates on. Anybody else who I've now offended for not mentioning by name because I just want to go to bed, get typing or I'll come round your house and piss on your cat.

And... go.
 
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Are you going to push the fundamentals and PES debate when we are down there, I do think they could learn a lot from looking at addressing the basics as you have been saying.
It's good that there are differences of opinion within the clique but I fear there is a little bit of almost anti anything PES too...
 
I just want to say, regarding ultra sim, stat oriented games being boring and unsellable, NBA 2k11. That game is the best sports game out there, and that is a simulator of basketball. There is little to no arcade in that game. It is excellent. It is stat driven yet most people absolutely love it.

For FIFA 12, they have to go the sim route, or is not a go for me.
 
I will be, yes.

It's so frustrating when people say I'm trying to make an impossibly hard, unenjoyable game, when if anything I think FIFA 11 is a sluggish midfield slog precisely because it doesn't apply realism in the right areas, and personality plus will continue to refer to haircuts and physique rather than behaviour and ability until they get the core parts of football right. If a larger proportion of the GC team had genuine experience of both titles and the capacity to play PES without a confirmation-bias approach then I wouldn't even have to deal with these 'you're asking for the impossible' types of posts.
 
Fifa 12 NEEDS sliders.

People keep bringing up NBA2k11 and it's a perfect example of how a game can be catered to the casual and hardcore fans. The sliders allow the game to mimic real basketball and 2K Sports even has default casual and simulation presets for those who don't partake in a sim community.

Again, give us sliders for everything. Pressure, Jostling, Goalkeeper AI, Passing Error, Speed, Acceleration, etc. That way, EA can put out a game for casuals out of the box and also provide a default 'sim' setting to be used online. Those of us who like to play vs the CPU will have the wonderful resource of online communities to tweak the game to our vision.

The thing is they need to make the sliders have a dramatic difference at the extremes. I know some Madden games had broken sliders or ones that hardly any effect which kills all the positive that could come from this. If you don't want to cater to hardcore fans out of the box, give us the opportunity to fix the game in the way we see fit. I see a place like evo-web coming up with decent sliders in ~5 days.

I know sliders have made my NBA 2k games MUCH more enjoyable.
 
I think FIFA 12 is almost guaranteed to have sliders, which is good news. What we need to do if anything is try and explain exactly what it is we want slider control over, and what the mimimum and maximum values should equate to. Personally I think the outer limits should overshoot in most cases - max running speed being too fast, slow being too slow, for example - so that we can definitely find the setting we want, rather than finding that things just aren't enough.
 
For me EA really have to rewrite the Team AI. It's not really changed in 3 years now, stupid 360 spins aside. Why can't we have a game where we can really feel the difference between teams. When I play Stoke, I want Delap launching long throws into the box at every opportunity. Every game just feels like a slog, a mini game almost of breaking down the AI defence. 90% of AI goals against me are from crosses. No variety at all. Very rarely do I see them crack one from distance. It simply has to change for FIFA 12.

Other things I need to see now is real time (ie no cutscenes) sending off sequences. Seeing the offender trudging off to a chorus of boos etc.

Injuries too. Wouldn't be cool to see physios coming on to the pitch and treating the player. Calling for stretchers if very serious. This would add immensely to the immersion.

Quick time throw ins. Like how they introduced quick free kicks.

And a complete overhaul of the graphics. It's looking stale.
 
romagnoli said:
I think FIFA 12 is almost guaranteed to have sliders, which is good news. What we need to do if anything is try and explain exactly what it is we want slider control over, and what the mimimum and maximum values should equate to. Personally I think the outer limits should overshoot in most cases - max running speed being too fast, slow being too slow, for example - so that we can definitely find the setting we want, rather than finding that things just aren't enough.
Click to expand...

I'm stunned that you're going to do this again. Thought your relative silence might have indicated you'd given up on FIFA (how's MLO treating ya?). Personally, the last few years purchasing FIFA was a certainty for me, but this year EA are actually going to have to work to sell me their game.

On the topic of sliders, as a mostly offline gamer that sounds great, but I don't see it being a great catch-all solution that many make it out to be. Let's be honest, FIFA is now an online game and I'd imagine sliders can't be implemented effectively online. Like it's been said, despite giving the visual illusion of realism FIFA still gets some of the basic fundamentals wrong, and that's where the emphasis needs to be.

I'll get around to typing up specific thoughts/suggestions soon. Props to you Rom for having the will to go through this again.
 
I can't believe fellow GC's are acting that way towards you. I think that some are probably so far up Rutters arse and they don't want to lose their free copies of FIFA every year and free nosh at preview events.
 
mfmaxpower said:
I'm stunned that you're going to do this again. Thought your relative silence might have indicated you'd given up on FIFA (how's MLO treating ya?). Personally, the last few years purchasing FIFA was a certainty for me, but this year EA are actually going to have to work to sell me their game.

On the topic of sliders, as a mostly offline gamer that sounds great, but I don't see it being a great catch-all solution that many make it out to be. Let's be honest, FIFA is now an online game and I'd imagine sliders can't be implemented effectively online. Like it's been said, despite giving the visual illusion of realism FIFA still gets some of the basic fundamentals wrong, and that's where the emphasis needs to be.

I'll get around to typing up specific thoughts/suggestions soon. Props to you Rom for having the will to go through this again.
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He want's and is determined for FIFA to hit it's potential!

He's a good man! Rom it's going to take a while for me to make videos etc..on the issues that grate me and send in problems about he skating etc.. very busy man, but I'll get them to you :)
 
Rating players.

You know what I don't like? Attribute numbers. Boring, white-fonted integers. 75 this, 62 that. An 86, ooh, exciting.

I don't think I'll go down to Villa Park on Saturday, turn to the guy in the seat next to mine, and have this conversation:
"You know what, Stephen Warnock is playing like his stand tackle is 93 today."
"Yep, but James Collins' tactical awareness is a bit 68 for my liking."
"You hear about that player we're supposed to be signing? Apparently his aggression is very 87."

These numbers are irrelevant and dull. Why must we automatically have lists and lists of these things? That's not football.

Yes, players are better at certain things than others, there has to be some way of rating and comparing. Surely it doesn't have to be so boring, so abstract... so gamey. Let's think outside this number box for once.

What I do like are the Specialities, the Traits. These little descriptions that tell me what this player can do, how this player behaves. They tell me what this player is... (when they've bothered to assign them, but that's another story).

Interesting and involving gameplay is about making meaningful strategic decisions.

Whether it's which platform to jump onto, which car setup to choose, which primary weapon to equip, which spell to cast, which upgrade to build... which player to select... it's all the same. And to make meaningful decisions, we need relevant, meaningful information on which to base our choices.

So... scenario. Let's say I want to pick my centre-back pairing for my next match. I look at my options. Richard Dunne, Carlos Cuellar, James Collins, Curtis Davies.

Overall? 80, 79, 78, 77. How neat. Basically all the same.
Marking? 79, 80, 79, 77. The same.
Tactical Awareness? 78, 77, 79, 75. The same.
Strength? 90, 88, 86, 83. Near enough the same.
Jumping? 85, 85, 88, 82. Same.
Stand Tackle? 83, 81, 80, 80. Same.

Excuse me while I get wrapped up in this decision. I can have this centre-back and this nearly identical centre-back, or this very similar centre-back, or that other one who's the same as the rest.

You get the picture. They're all about the same height, about the same speed. They are all just 'centre backs' of no particular style or definition. Isn't this pointless? So who cares if Dunne gets injured? I'll just put Curtis Davies in, it'll be no different. If I'm playing against Kevin Davies or Michael Owen next, it doesn't really matter.

Boring :YAWN:

Forget numbers. I don't want to see a player with a number unless it's on his shirt, his age, his height or his weight. Maybe, MAYBE retain an overall rating. Please lock the rest away in the depths of code where they belong.

Does James Collins have a tendency to hurl himself to block shots bravely? Maybe that's important to me, I'll pick him.
Does Carlos Cuellar read the game particularly well? I value that, so I'll pick him.
Does Richard Dunne bring leadership and organisation to the back line? I'll miss that if I drop him, so I'll keep him in the team.

These are the things I want to know. What does that player do unusually well? What are his notable strengths, what are his glaring weaknesses? What type of centre-back is he? A brave stopper? A tactical man-marker? What behavioural tendencies does he have? What distinguishes him from his peers?

Traits and Specialities are one miniscule step in the right direction, but we're still a train journey away from where we could be.

The new Virtual Pro position thing is interesting, in theory. A player of a certain style. A creative playmaker, a box-to-box dynamo. A target man, a poacher. Why couldn't all existing players be arranged under some similar scheme?

What if a player's bio was more along the lines of:

Carlos Cuellar. OVR 79.
Position: Defender, Centre.
Style: Tactical Defender.
Speciality: Interceptions.
Strengths: Marking, Stand Tackle, Strength.
Weaknesses: Acceleration, Long Passing.
Traits: Long Throw-In.
ATT Work-rate: Low.
DEF Work-rate: High.
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James Collins. OVR 78.
Position: Defender, Centre.
Style: Combative Stopper.
Speciality: Aggressive.
Strengths: Jumping, Shot Power, Strength.
Weaknesses: Sprint Speed.
Traits: Shot blocker. Power Free-Kicks.
ATT Work-rate: Low.
DEF Work-rate: High.
Click to expand...

Paints a more interesting picture, I think? It tells me what style of centre-back they are, and which of their abilities are most notably good/bad... much more in line with how you might really describe and think about a footballer. I can absorb that and know what sort of player I have on my hands, and then make a decision on who I'm going to pick, based on the style I prefer and who my opponent is.

On some level, way, way down, there will be numbers. These numbers should be generated as a fraction of the Overall, then be subsequently weighted based on Position and Style, then subsequently re-balanced according to Strength/Weaknesses, with particular weighting awarded to the Speciality. Blissfully, we should never need to see these digits.

(Of course, each style/speciality/strength/weakeness/trait will require a nice text description, like the current Specialities have.)

So... I can glance at the Overall, and know roughly what standard of player I'm dealing with.
Then I can look at the position Style, and know what type of [insert position] I'm dealing with.
Then I can look at what he does particularly well/bad, and weigh that against what I think I need.

The rest is all superfluous. It doesn't matter if Cuellar's dribbling is four points better/worse than Collins'. Neither of them are dribblers, full stop. I know that because they are both centre-backs of a similar OVR who don't have Dribbling as one of their strengths. That means they both have average dribbling for a 79/78-level CB. That's all I need, and it's all I'll be able to detect when in-game.

As a side bonus, this sort of system would surely make the data reviewers jobs easier. Instead of having to balance abstract numbers without a hard grasp on what those numbers really translate to, they can set a rough overall and then pick a description along with a handful of strengths/weaknesses. Could result in better, more varied data, I think.
 
Those are very interesting ideas, Nerf, but I think that it's a patch to hide what is obvious: all players do the same. While I like your ideas, there should be something in the other end (aka the engine) that makes that work real differences.

Fifa should watch at the Nba 2k series and borrow a lot of things. Player tendencies, for example, would be a great way to add personality to players. For instance, Messi should have the tendency to cut to the center or swap positions quite regularly, while Villa should have the tendency to go to the centre and try to receive through passes. Implementing long sets of tendencies like that would mean that the game is ready to perform them in a regular basis, then say goodbye to the flat experience we have now, where all strikers do the same things, I can't see a difference between Villa and a league 2 player, there's only speed and dribbling, but they do the same moves over and over. And are bad moves, most of the time...

Player tendencies should extend to things like "go to the far post when there's a chance of a cross", "roam the area waiting for a deflection when in a situation for a cross"... you know, things like that.

It would add a lot to the tactical side.

Oh, and by the way, have the defenders bloody mark the strikers when you're attacking, not only when I'm defending. That's the main reason why the game is a series of counter-attacks. When you cross or you shoot, if the opponent gathers the ball, their strikers are always unmarked near the halfline. A problem created in Fifa 09 and that has been carried to date. And my DMF should be near my defenders in that situations, to prevent counters. In real life, when a team has a lot of possession and domination of the pitch, clearances arenormally gathered by the attacking team, and counters are occasional, there's a huge positional advantage for the attackers. That exists in PES and don't in Fifa. Guess why I ended up playing PES now and then...
 
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