ITALY thread

[Lami]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Congrats, your boys were very tired today. It was obvious. Prandelli managed a little miracle with those players( very unfit people everywhere).

Yep. That was obvious. Spain had much more energy. Probably all the passing about in the tourney paid off now. Add to that Balzaretti not starting, then coming in early in the game after a goal was scored, sub wasted. Then Motta's sub ending up playing with 10 men, another one wasted. The goals that weren't happening. And Spain's ability didn't help at all.

What I don't understand is, why did Motta come in when they were 2 goals down? At that time they had nothing to lose, and I would've thrown in an energetic and quick player instead, maybe help up the team spirits.

 

[Milanista]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

It was an 'injusticia' after the good italian EURO, the team was humiliated by spanish, the match could end 6-0 if it lasted 10 minutes more. I saw too many big teams completely burned in this tournament (in order: Netherlands, France, Germany and Italy), fixtures needs to be changed.

Balzaretti was one of the best left back of tournament, while Abate was the worst. Like lo zio said, coach had to start with 2 sidebacks like Balzaretti and Maggio, since he had a good match against Alba in the first match.
It will be interesting to see the future of this team, since half squad will be over 30 in 2014.

Don't fully agree about Abate. Thought he came on and did his job well throughout. Chiellini was awful tonight and was too slow. Burn out is definitely an issue, but Spain were completely fine and most of their players are from Barca/Real who played a million games a year.

I think using the word humiliated is a bit strong - I think everyone accepted Spain's superiority after 2-0, and from then on it was a case of waiting for the game to end.

 

[Milanista]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Yep. That was obvious. Spain had much more energy. Probably all the passing about in the tourney paid off now. Add to that Balzaretti not starting, then coming in early in the game after a goal was scored, sub wasted. Then Motta's sub ending up playing with 10 men, another one wasted. The goals that weren't happening. And Spain's ability didn't help at all.

What I don't understand is, why did Motta come in when they were 2 goals down? At that time they had nothing to lose, and I would've thrown in an energetic and quick player instead, maybe help up the team spirits.

I think the idea behind Motta was to have someone who can stop Spain's counter attacks whilst we push up, but also adding an extra man when we do attack. Thiago Motta is pretty box-to-boxy and has pretty good finishing and heading abilities.

Personally I would've brought on Nocerino as his runs would've opened up space to create chances.

 

[Baxter]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Don't fully agree about Abate. Thought he came on and did his job well throughout. Chiellini was awful tonight and was too slow. Burn out is definitely an issue, but Spain were completely fine and most of their players are from Barca/Real who played a million games a year.

I think using the word humiliated is a bit strong - I think everyone accepted Spain's superiority after 2-0, and from then on it was a case of waiting for the game to end.

Yeah, probably I exagerated, that's because I prefer Maggio and, after first game, I expected a better future for him.
Maybe humiliated is not the correct word, but I believe nobody expected 4 goals (it's the first time in an EURO final, according to statistics). The team was burned and I agree with you about the fact that the team felt satisfied after match against Germany (so they should learn from Spain: never be satisfied).
However, congratulation to Italy for final, I believe nobody expected such a final placement.

 

[YoungGun_UK]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Congrats to Italy for making it to the final in the first place, not many expected much but you played some entertaining football and surprised a lot of people by beating Germany to get their.

Hopefully in 2 years time Italy can produce similar results.

 

[bebo]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Heads held high, nothing but respect ! harsh scoreline no doubt. The experience for the new blood is instrumental for the WC not that you lots care atm. I did feel for the players tearing they won`t forget and will do all not to feel that again. Mario on the positive has matured a lot and the way he went off after the match he went to his family to be consoled was heart felt.

Best Italian moment was from the start seeing Gigi singing national anthem w/ passion while he closed, his eyes.

 

[gerd]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Italian people should be proud of their national team. The way Spain altered their playing style can be seen as a tribute to this Italian team. It is obvious that Spain were the better team, but Italy had bad luck yesterday: the injury of Chiellini (his impact is exagerated in this thread by the way), the immediate injury of Thiago Motta and Casillas's crucial save at the beginning of the second half.

IMO Prandelli was great for Italy, but he made mistakes in the final. Why not play with both Balzaretti and Maggio? In the first match against Spain, the Spanish team struggled against an Italy playing 3-5-2. Why nota adapt the same playing style and formation?

But in the end: just think about the good things. Italy was amazing in this tournament and they lost against what is probably the best national team ever (oh and i was 8 when Italy lost the 1970 WC final against that Brazilian team). Grazie Italia.

 

[Milanista]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Best Italian moment was from the start seeing Gigi singing national anthem w/ passion while he closed, his eyes.

Classic Gigi. You can always hear him through the mics.

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

I think he took a bit of gamble playing Chiellini, he looked shaky in the Germany game and seemed totally unfit from the start last night, to have to use a sub after 20 mins is a disaster. Balzaretti looked very good whenever he's played in this tournament, so why not just start with him? Prandelli took off Cassano for Di Natale, but I would have maybe waited for 60 mins then taken off Montolivo for Di Natale and just played with one less midfielder. Obviously Motta's injury ended the game for Italy, it was impossible with 10 men and no subs left.

 

[henrys hand]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Prandelli's mistakes were bitter yesterday, as well as Balotellis clunkiness and slowness.

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

I dont think there can be that much blame for Balotelli. He didn't get that much service, the Italian full backs weren't doing the overlapping runs they made against Germany, there weren't too many balls into the box - although actually in the first half De Rossi nearly scored with a header. Balotelli did a lot of running trying to close down the Spanish defenders, he generally kept the ball well even if surrounded by 2-3 Spanish players, he didn't have that much support, there was often no ball on for him towards the end of the match as the other 8 Italian outfield players were too tired. Also I think for some reason it just doesnt click with him and Di Natale. It seems Balotelli can play well with Cassano, and vice versa, but once Di Natale comes on there isnt the same level of connection between the strikers - they dont know where each other is running as instinctivly, so they cant do the quick one touch passing.

 

[Milanista]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

I agree Edmundo. I don't have much blame for Balo. I think he really tried hard last night and was the only player really up for the game for 90 minutes.

He also cried like a huge baby at the end of the game

 

[lo zio]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

yep, i also agree with edmundo.
it was really sad to see the players crying. i wasn't feeling sad up until that moment. infact i was absolutely happy with what the guys did in this tournament.
but then i saw them crying and i suddenly realised that this still wasn't enough for them (wich is actually something i admire them for, as we should always expect the best from ourselves).
http://www.corrieredellosport.it/foto/calcio/euro_2012/italia/2012/07/02-47708_0/Da+Balotelli+a+Pirlo%3A+l%26apos%3BItalia+in+lacrime+dopo+la+sconfitta
i hope the fans will give em a warm wellcome as soon as they make it back to roma's airport. they deserve it.

 

[Milanista]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

The saddest thing is that it could be Gigi and Pirlo's last tournaments for Italy.....

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

I can see why the players were upset, because even if you are the best team in the world you still need an element of chance to get to finals. Even if Italy play as well as this in Brazil 2014, France 2016 and Russia 2018, it will be very difficult to make the final, let alone win it. For instance Germany has been one of the strongest teams in the last 15 years but they've only made 2 finals (WC 2002, Euro 2008) - that's the danger with tournament football - it only happens every 2 years and so a slight mistake, or a moment of tiredness in say a quarter final or semi final, and the match is lost. Maybe some of these players, even the young ones, will fear "Will I ever reach a (international team) final again in my career?"

I do feel sorry for the Italians, yes Spain played great, but this Italy team showed a huge amount of character. We know there was controversy only days before the tournament with Criscito leaving and all this "fixing" stuff, the friendly matches against Uruguay, USA and especially Russia, were worrying, but instead of folding the team really grew and played collectivly above themselves. They did really well against Spain in the first match and on another day could have won it, for me the match against Croatia (a very underrated side) was a superb performance to dig out and cling on for the draw. Croatia were, in my opinion, in the top 8 (of the 16 teams) and their passing, crossing and heading ability was superb but the Italians were able to get the draw they needed. The game against Germany was also a fantastic performance and in some ways was perhaps the "result" of the tournament given how well the Germans had performed prior to the semi final. Unfortunately small margins sometimes seem to haunt Italy sometimes in knockout games. The shoot out in Napoli with Donadoni and Serena missing, allowing Maradona to score the winning penalty, in Napoli of all places! Baggio's penalty in 1994, Albertini and Di Biagio's penalties against France, the golden goal in Euro 2000, the Byron Moreno* guy in 2002, the 2-2 between Denmark and Sweden in 2004, the shoot-out in Vienna. And last night the injury situation (Chiellini and Motta), going down to 10 men, and big chances falling to the wrong players (double chance for Di Natale), it seemed Italy got all it's bad luck in one game.

*Do you know what happend to this guy last January?

 

[Baxter]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

*Do you know what happend to this guy last January?

Nope, did someone film him in a fetish orgy with Al-Ghandour and korean guys?

Spoiler

 

[lo zio]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

i seem to recall he got pinched by US authorities smuggling drugs at an american airport, is that right?
i also heard that before the airport incident there were some serious match fixing allegations on him (apparently after that italy-korea game he took his talent to his domestic league in ecuador).
if u ask me, he shouldn't have expanded his interests to drug dealing... if u're good at something, why change your job and waste your "talents"

btw how is he doing right now? is he still in prison?

good post btw edmundo i always enjoy reading your opinions.

 

[PLF]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Prandelli messed up in the final! No doubt about it!

Anyway it doesn't matter, we all love him and he's a hero! Italy exceeded all expectations anyway! wEll done!

Poor Bonucci couldn't stop CRYING!

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Yeah he went to JFK Airport with illegal stuff hidden in his pants. I think he's still in jail it was a 2.5 year sentence. The Ecuadorian FA had already banned him for doing stuff like sending off 4 players from one team (for nothing incidents) and awarding 13 mins of injury time (when it should have been 6), he seemed like a very shady ref.

 

[drekkard]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

A bit late, but...

Congrats to Italy! You were brave against Spain.

Italy has played in the best 3 matches of this tournament in my oppinion, that's something to be very proud of.

This team has a great future even after Pirlo. Prandelli made some mistakes, apparently, but my respect for his work is huge. This kind of coaches are the future for football. Let tem work!

Ci vediamo alla finale di Brasil? I hope so!

 

[lo zio]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Yeah he went to JFK Airport with illegal stuff hidden in his pants. I think he's still in jail it was a 2.5 year sentence. The Ecuadorian FA had already banned him for doing stuff like sending off 4 players from one team (for nothing incidents) and awarding 13 mins of injury time (when it should have been 6), he seemed like a very shady ref.

LOL! he's always been a bit too obvious

A bit late, but...

Congrats to Italy! You were brave against Spain.

Italy has played in the best 3 matches of this tournament in my oppinion, that's something to be very proud of.

This team has a great future even after Pirlo. Prandelli made some mistakes, apparently, but my respect for his work is huge. This kind of coaches are the future for football. Let tem work!

Ci vediamo alla finale di Brasil? I hope so!

thanks alexis. it was a very nice tournament indeed, and i'm absolutely happy about the result.
as for the final, the better team won (obviously!) and i have no regrets at all. it was great to have achance to play in a final against the best national team on the planet...and i think this tournament was a very good start for this new italian team.
congrats mate

 

[beachryan]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Not the senior team, but Italy's U21's have just given an absolutely world class lesson in the dark arts of football.

Cannot believe how much time wasting, acting, feigning injury and niggling fouling they just displayed to 'beat' Holland. Remarkable. They had 5 'injuries' in the last 10 minutes, ball must have been in play for about 2 of them. Kick the ball away every free kick, lots of chat to players to try and wind them up, and just overall snide little f*ckers.

Some of the worst sportsmanship I've ever seen at that level. Normally the U21's are refreshing in that most players are there to play. Not the Italians.

 

[dplane]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Not the senior team, but Italy's U21's have just given an absolutely world class lesson in the dark arts of football.

Cannot believe how much time wasting, acting, feigning injury and niggling fouling they just displayed to 'beat' Holland. Remarkable. They had 5 'injuries' in the last 10 minutes, ball must have been in play for about 2 of them. Kick the ball away every free kick, lots of chat to players to try and wind them up, and just overall snide little f*ckers.

Some of the worst sportsmanship I've ever seen at that level. Normally the U21's are refreshing in that most players are there to play. Not the Italians.

I ve always been of the opinion that that's the reason why northern European teams are going to be at a disadvantage against the Southern European teams. Short fuses and physicality of the Dutch when faced with theatrics from the opposing team means they will often lose mentally before stepping foot on the pitch.

 

[lo zio]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Not the senior team, but Italy's U21's have just given an absolutely world class lesson in the dark arts of football.

Cannot believe how much time wasting, acting, feigning injury and niggling fouling they just displayed to 'beat' Holland. Remarkable. They had 5 'injuries' in the last 10 minutes, ball must have been in play for about 2 of them. Kick the ball away every free kick, lots of chat to players to try and wind them up, and just overall snide little f*ckers.

Some of the worst sportsmanship I've ever seen at that level. Normally the U21's are refreshing in that most players are there to play. Not the Italians.

sad to hear this. i haven't watched the game, so i can't very well comment on this, but of all the theatrics displayed by football players, those time-wasting acts (when the final whistle is near and your team is winning) are among those which annoy me the most.

then again (and let me repeat, i didn't even watch the game, so that's a generic statement), holland had an entire game to score a goal... and they didn't, whereas the italians did.
all the theatrics in this world can't score u a goal.... nor can stop the opponents from scoring (if u consider an entire match, i mean).
why am i saying this? coz u said "the theatrics they displayed to beat the opponent". and i can tell u this statement is uncorrect, even without having watched the game.
football isn't simple, but it's pretty straightforward: there's just one way to win... and that is to score and to prevent your opponent from doing the same. everything else is marginal (if not redundant).

as for the confederations cup, i just saw on tv the lineup for tonight.... a xmas tree formation with balotelli alone upfront and marchisio and giaccherini behind him!?!?! what's up with that!!!
they said it's an "emergency formation". what sort of emergency are we facing exactly? injured players? poor form? i haven't watched much tv lately, so i might need some catching up on any news concerning the azzurri.

anyway i'm really looking forward to see mexico. haven't seen them playing in ages, but i've always liked them.

 

[gerd]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Lo Zio, both the reactions of beach and dplane are culturally biased.
Let's start with criticising one of my own favourite players. Last time i heard Gareth Bale wasn't Italian, but Welsh. The moment one of those specialists in the dark arts of football signs a contract for Man Utd both beach and dplane will stop pointing out the fact that he is a time waster or a diver...

People forget that players like Bale, Busquets and other diving players (Ronaldo when playing for United and his manager doing the same thing over and over again) are first of all briljant football players.

I haven't seen the match but the fact is that the Italian team did score, so they must have played at least once "proper" football.

I don't like time wasting, diving and related things but it isn't true that only "Southern" players do it...

I can assure you that the German national team between roughly 76 and 1998 were masters in the dark arts of football...

 

[lo zio]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Lo Zio, both the reactions of beach and dplane are culturally biased.

of course they are.... as am i. i wasn't having a go at them, nor i felt insulted in any way by their posts (that would be ridiculous).

i think that's a very cool thing about this forum. i like to chat about football with some italian friends, but, since our cultural background is the same, we also share the same perspective (if not the same opinions).
here instead, u have people from different countries sharing their views, wich is a constant challenge to our prejudices and narrowed perspectives.

for instance, i absolutely can't stand the whole "they didn't deserve to win" approach to football talk, as i believe that denies the very essence of sport. that seems to be a very common habit in some countries.
then again cynism too can lead to an unhealthy approach to sport, if u take it too far (and perhaps that is our limit, here in italy).
facing our prejudices can be a great way to erode them, as it allows us realise our limits.

this "holier than thou" approach to football bores me to death and i think such logic has no place in sports.... but reading such posts also makes me realise that "if u go too far the other way", then cynism might not be an healty approach either.

that was the spirit of my post. to let them see things my way, just as they let me see things their way. we're kinda educating each others here.
but i certainly wouldn't feel insulted if someone were to say italians are more prone to theatrics than north-europeans. whether this is right or not, it's not like i had any part in that. the only thing i share with the azzurri is that i was born in the same region. and such a weak bond is certainly not enough to make me feel obligated to "take their defence"

 

[dplane]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Class responses lo zio. And yes i freely admit I am biased, anyone telling others they are not is lying to themselves. Regardless of theatrics, we can probably at least agree that there is a different approach to the game in different parts of the world.

And Gerd, i respect you but it does bother me you often put yourself on that moral high ground lo zio is talking about. I highly encourage you to find any post i made where i condone diving, United player or not.

 

[Aboutreika18]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

I don't see it as a big deal.

At the Euros, both Spain and Italy reached the final but there was never any real display of the "dark arts" whether in both Spain/Italy games, throughout the tournament or by other teams. It was a refreshingly open and entertaining tournament with some excellent football.

Ironically, if any team stunk up the Euros it was England with their mind numbingly dull attempts to park the bus and scrape through the competition a la Chelsea circa 2012.

Watching England employ catenaccio-esque tactics in the quarter-final against Italy was a surreal experience.

 

[beachryan]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

Yeah, there is a lot of cultural bias on my part. I'm from North America - where 'cheating' in any form is viewed as about the worst thing you can do in sports. If a player cheated in the way every soccer player does in an NFL match, his own teammates would disown him. There's far more honor in other sports.

But, seriously, that U21 display was something else. There's a difference between sensible time-wasting (walking to take throw-ins, substitutions, playing into the corner) and what the U21 team did.

In about the 84th minute, a high ball went into Italy's box, the keeper punched it away from an attacker - they did collide - but the keeper jumped up to his feet, stayed big til after Holland hit a shot wide. Then it started.

He crumbles to the ground. Initially holding his chest like he can't breathe. Lays flat out. Medics rush on. He closes his eyes for a bit. About a minute later, the medics are applying ice to his head. His head. At no point had he touched his head in any way. That took another minute. Then he gets hauled to his feet, and he fakes being groggy as he eeeks out every second getting to his feet (again, his head had never been touched). At about the 88th minute, the ref has finally had enough - and the keeper grabs the ball, spins it into the corner of his box, runs back and belts it up the pitch, completely fine. He was of course fine for the remaining few minutes.

That kind of sh*t I can't stand. That's not 'going to ground easy in the heat of the moment'. That's premeditated faking. That's a professional athlete, laying on the ground, pretending to be seriously hurt (same reason I will never ever respect Drogba, after he faked having a fit on the pitch).

I can understand Bale going to ground easily at speed, or a player crumbling when they've been touched. But when that 20-something year old Italian goal keeper decided to fake a serious injury for 5 minutes, and then have the balls to just play on as he was obviously fine - that would do it for me. I wouldn't be able to deal with that.

Oh and despite that single injury (one of about 5 in the last 10 minutes) taking a full 5 mins of gametime, the ref added 4, as always.

Should note I saw the Italian full side today and they were great, wasn't tryin to make out it was an italian thing.

 

[gerd]

Re: The Italy Thread - Forza Azzurri! - "Il sogno è appena cominciato"

It was never my intention to take the moral high ground. I merely wanted to sat that we (me too) almost never see our own team's diving as very disturbing...whereas it rankles more with certain other teams people with a penchant for English football see it as typically Southern-European...which it isn't.