Formula1

What a Sport Mclaren done for spying makes the Constructors contest a joke, the new god that is Hamilton gets off a couple of discrepancies and then combusts in the last two races, Alonso takes his ball home coz nobody at the company that's paying him £10 million to drive, likes him and then Hamilton may still be crowned champ. I can just imagine Kimi' if they come knocking.... can we have the trophy back...
 
Peter Eyres said:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7055644.stm


this would really get the conspiracy theories going!
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theories, huh :-k
well, Peter, unless my english is more rusty than i thought, a "theory" is just a n hypothesis, an unproven construct, a possibility that is not supported by facts......

well well,...

we got this 800 pages dossier found in mike coughlan (maclaren engineer chief) offices. A dossier containing all the information data about ferraris cars; from the chassis to the brakes, from the suspensions to the deflectors, from the engine to the aerodynamic system... all infos elaborated by ferrari's research and develop laboratory).
fact.
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we got the logs of the phone calls between Nigel Stepney (former ferrari engineer) and Mike Coughlan (maclaren engineer chief), where they "negotiate" the "price" of that dossier.
fact.
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we got the logs of the several phone calls and sms stepney sent to coughlan, during this season races. Stepeny revealed to coughlan many vital infos, like the ammount of fuel in ferrari cars and when the ferrari should have stop for refueling.
fact.
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we got the emails that hamilton, alonso and de la rosa sent each others, discussing about ferrari's data.
Alonso to De la rosa: Pedro, are u sure those info about ferrari are reliable? they looked pretty surprising to me! If those data about the ferrari suspensions are correct, then it would be great! it would explain why we had so many problems with the tyres . did our engineers already analized those data?

De la rosa to alonso: all those infos are reliable, fernando. it was nigel stepney himself the one who revealed those infos to coughlan. he's the same person who told us when kimi's pit stops should have been last gran prix. our engineers are already working on those data to see what kind of adjustements we need to do.

Hamilton to De la rosa: Pedro, i need to know any info u can give me about ferrari's braking system. please contact asap.

facts. theese are just the ones i can recall at the moment...if u do a search on the web, u'll find all the other conversations for sure.
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we got a sentence wich established maclaren stole (and took advantages from) the whole ferrari car's technical reports.
fact.
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we got a pilot, hamilton, who violated the FIA rules 19 times this season (even montoya looks like an angel, compared to him)...... but how many times did hamilton get punishments? 3, just 3 times.
his last violation was just 3 days ago: hamilton used 2 sets of tyres for the pre-qualifying phase. u can't use more than 1 set of tyres. the sanction should be a 10 positions handicap on the starting grid. what did FIA do? just a 3000 dollars fine. :roll:
fact.
and the funniest thing is that when Massa was asked from a journalist about hamilton's umpteenth rules violation, he replied: "i'm sure FIA won't punish lewis... maybe they'll just establish a few dollar's fine... afterall i think everybody realised wich his FIA attitude concerning Hamilton".
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we got Stepney sabotating ferrari by putting a misterious substance in kimi's fuel tank (messing up the car and forcing kimi to retire from the race).
fact.
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we got alonso asking the FIA to be "protected" from his own team. he said he thought maclaren was sabotating him, to let hamilton win the title.... he said "just look at my "lap times"... since a couple of weeks my car became slower....:roll:
fact.
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now i'd like to ask u guys: are u happy about this shit? because each time u turn on your tv to watch a gran prix, it's like u were saying "ok, bernie, keep doing like this!"

as for me, i'm sick and tired of this disgusting situation.....

and shall we talk about this last ridiculous try to damage ferrari????
the max gap accepted between the air temperature and the fuel temperature is 10 degrees. sathurday williams noticed there was a difference between their own data and FIA's data, and according to FIA's data, the fuel temperature was beyond that limit by 2 degrees. So williams asked FIA "what do we have to do?" and FIA replied "no prob, since u told us, u won't be punished" this happpened sathurday, and williams was allowed to run.
then, once the race was over, after the result, FIA misteriously changed their mind and opened an inquiry about williams fuel temperature.
what a funny coincidence; if williams would have been disqualified, then hamilton would have won the title :roll:

pathetic!
 
They should all have to repaint their cars in Wacky Racers colours..... "and there goes Alonso in the Crazy coupe, closely followed by Raikkonen in the Crimson Haybailer, but coming up on the outside it's Hamilton in the Turbo terrific...." :lol:



wakygroup.jpg
 
Nick Cave said:
They should all have to repaint their cars in Wacky Racers colours..... "and there goes Alonso in the Crazy coupe, closely followed by Raikkonen in the Crimson Haybailer, but coming up on the outside it's Hamilton in the Turbo terrific...." :lol:



wakygroup.jpg
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:lol::lol:
nice one mate :)
but it would be unfair for ferrari who won with honour the title, with the greatest "comeback" in formula 1 history.

the team won despite maclaren's cheats, despite the ridiculously unfair sentence, despite the FIA (which changed the rules for the umpteenth time, just to damage ferrari and wich broke the rules they themselves wrote, each time hamilton did something he couldn't do).

Glory to ferrari. next year they obviously won't be able to repeat themselves, as it's almost impossible for them to win, with the rules ecclestone and mosley approved.......
.... but this year they gave a real lesson to everybody out there.
a lesson about class, about hard work, about ethic, about fairness. :applause::applause::applause::applause:



Ferrari won the first race of the season with an illegal device on board and escaped punishment btw.
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that's just wrong, mate. ferrari didn't anything illegal and that's why they weren't punished.
u should check your sources more carefully.
actually this episode is another demonstration of maclaren's disgusting attitude this season.

ferrari developed a revolutionary moveable chassis floor. this chassis was not illegal at all, there wasn't any rule about it, so i can't honestly see how can u say it was illegal.

Ron "the british moggi" Dennis, knew about that chassis even before melbourne gp.... of course he knew, that bastard knew ferrari aswell as ferrari engineers, coz he stole ferrari's confidential technical reports.

during the trial the lawyers showed a transcription about a phone call between dennis and coughlan. Coughlan told dennis it was too hard to copy, to rip that moveable floor, so dennis told him that they should have keep an eye on ferrari performance's at melbourne. "if that chassis won't work, then there's no prob, if it will work, then we might still inform ecclestone about that chassis..... i'm sure the board will make it illegal" he said.

and that's exactly what happened. when the FIA "created" that new rule, Montezemolo replied "there's no point in wasting our energies in research and develop, if u keep making illegal the results of our works. that's not a fair competition. u have a fair competition when the judge establishes the rules before the season starts..... it's unacceptable to rebuilt our chassis once again just because u decided it's illegal during the season. with this new rule the FIA is telling us that we don't have just to respect the rules they already approved.... we also have to respect some rules that don't even exist yet, because u never know what the FIA might make illegal tomorrow."
thenj jean todt asked "how the hell maclaren knew about our chassis btw" :roll:

once again, pathetic and disgusting.
 
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Peter Eyres said:
they've decided not to punish BMW:lol:

McClaren are appealing. Wouldn't you with so much at stake.

Ferrari won the first race of the season with an illegal device on board and escaped punishment btw.
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Wrong actually mate.

The device was deemed illegal after Maclaren complained. They won the race with a legal device until after the race. Big difference.
 
I do find it funny how Italians support Ferrari to the death despite them not actually having any Italian drivers in contention for the title.
 
Peter Eyres said:
I do find it funny how Italians support Ferrari to the death despite them not actually having any Italian drivers in contention for the title.
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really?? do you? i don't think so. i don't think u really find it funny at all. actually i think u perfectly understand..... otherwise it would be such an obvious and silly question (like your question, afterall) asking u why do u support liverpool....

..coz as far as i know xabi alonso wasn't really born along mersey's banks..... neither voronin or riise... and actually hyppia doesn't looks like a typical english surname :lol:

of course i won't ever ask u such a stupid question, coz i realize liverpool is not riise, neither xabi or voronin, i realize liverpool goes beyond those who wear the reds shirt....

in fact me too i support palermo despite palermo having just 3 players who were really born in Palermo.

but there's nothing to be surprised about, Peter. it's not really funny. Afterall we're not 2 idiot chauvinists....aren't we? :roll:. we don't need to see a "made in italy" logo (or a "made in england" logo) to appreciate something... don't we? :roll::roll:
because those idiots, they are really funny. those who became "formula 1 lovers" just because Hamilton's star started shining, those who think hamilton is "the greatest driver in the all circus", those who like to open their mouth, repeating those bullshits they read on some crappy newspaper, thinking they're saying something smart and true....... they are really funny :mrgreen:

anyway, Peter, if u would like and watch formula 1, u would know that formula 1 is not an individual sport. formula 1 wasn't born like an individual sport... it has never been like that. formula 1 is a team sport. actually is a competition between engines constructors. the drivers are just "intruments", "tools"; they are a part (and not the most important part) of a team.

but of course, like what is happening for football, most of tha fans nowadays are just little ignorant kids or guys, who don't know anything about this sport, and who are so stupid they don't even realize formula 1 (or football) is a team sport. an ocean of silly fanboys screaming "lewis, lewis", or "jenson", "jenson" :lol:

but we italians aren't like that, Peter. for an italian formula 1 (but i'd say all the "racing sports", like gt, moto gp....) is like litterature, like history, like football, like painting, like cycling, like opera, like wine, like music.....
it's culture mate. and we study it.... well maybe we don't study it at school, as it happens for litterature or history.... but still we study it, and we deeply know it, and we realise and respect the real soul, the spirit of the racing sport.

but Peter, if u think ferrari is "not italian", well u still have many things to learn about this sport.
ferrari is not kimi raikkonnen, neither felipe massa, ferrari is not montezemolo neither jean todt.
ferrari ARE 50 engineers and mechanics who "gifted themselves" to ferrari.
when the race is over and felipe and kimi fly back to home to have some rest, they stay there, disassembling the box, the car, cleaning the house.... then they take a flight for the next gran prix location and start it again, and again and again.
when kimi and felipe go to sleep the night before the gp (and also the nght before that night, and even the night before....) they don't, they are in the paddock working on the car, trying some adjustments.
now that the championship is over felipe and kimi will go on holydays. the team instead will come back here in maranello, italy, to creat the car for the next season. no rest, no holidays, no glory for them........ BUT THEY ARE FERRARI.

now u might think "well, afterall that's what every other team does".
wrong.
despite being the most important engines factory in this world, ferrari is far from being rich...... well, actually ferrari is rich, but not nearly as rich as mclaren-mercedes, or williams-bmw, or renault or toyota.
nobody would ever try to compare a "scaglietti" to a "slk" or a "bmw m3" or a "megane" or a "celica". But if take a look at liverpool roads, u will see 1 ferrari each 10 bmw, 12 slk, 100 celica, 200 megane. bmw, mercedes, toyota, renault, they all sell much more cars than ferrari, their annual incomes are 4 times, 7 times, 10 times bigger than ferrari annual incomes.
compared to the other constructors, we're the "poor ones".

this means that ferrari can't afford maclaren's, toyota's, renault's expenses.
maclaren's engineers and mechanics never work day and night. maclaren has 150 men who work for the team. 50 of them work during the day, 50 of them work during the night, 50 of them are in england doing some tests or working for the research and develop laboratories.

ferrari can count just on 50 men, and they have to the same things those 150 guys do in maclaren. and actually they do their work even better than maclaren's men, as ferrari won more titles than anybody else.

as usual i wrote a long, maybe boring post.... now i'm realising i could have been much more brief. just a simple statement would have been enough to let u understand why ferrari is different from all the others constructors:

do u wanna know where's this difference? do u wanna understand why we support ferrari, despite not having italian drivers?
then just look at a gran prix, look at the people on the circuit sides. u will see many hamilton's flags, many alonso's flags, but u won't see many raikkonen's flags neither massa's flags..... u will see many ferrari's flags... u will see many of theese.
PH0145.jpg


some people support hamilton, who drives a maclaren, some people support kubica, who drives a bmw..... when theese drivers will mmove to another team, theese people will just "follow" them.
some other people support ferrari, who is driven by massa and raikkonnen. when they will move to another team or retire, some other drivers will take their place, it doesn't matter...

the only thing that really matters is the "cavallino"
ferrari-550-maranello-011.jpg


:D


p.s. "supporting to the death", such an horrible expression, btw. i don't think anybody supports anything "to the death".... at least i hope. :roll:
 
I guess we have to thank dear Enzo, without who the great Ferruccio would not have produced some of the finest super cars to grace the planet, which now owned by a precision based German company, are now technically proficient too..

Congratulations to Kimi too, a true world champion wins more than one title so should be interesting for next season..
 
Nick Cave said:
I guess we have to thank dear Enzo, without who the great Ferruccio would not have produced some of the finest super cars to grace the planet, which now owned by a precision based German company, are now technically proficient too..

Congratulations to Kimi too, a true world champion wins more than one title so should be interesting for next season..
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:)
sorry mate, but i have to correct u. ferrari is still a 100% italian company. the great Enzo Ferrari left the company to Luca Cordero di Montezemolo, who used to follow the team and watch the gran prix with big Enzo since he was a child (he was some sort of a foster child to Enzo).
nowadays ferrari joined the FIAT company group, which is owned by the agnelli family and directed by Montezemolo himself.

Ferruccio Lamborghini instead was the father of Lamborghini, which joined the Wolkswagen group in '91 (but still remains an italian factory ;)).

anyway u're right, without Ferruccio, Enzo wouldn't have started producing cars (and without Enzo, Ferruccio wouldn't have started producing cars). When Enzo was young, he used to work for Ferruccio, in Lamborghini. Those days Lamborghini didn't use to produce cars yet... it was a farm tractor factory.

when both of them started producing cars (ferrari and lamborghini) a big rivalry rose between them. both of them were controversial men.... best friends in private.... enemies in pubblic. Enzo ferrari wasted a fortune buying fake passports on the black market to help jewish people escaping from the nazis.... even if he used to define himself a "fascist" (i guess his idea of "fascism" was pretty different from Mussolini's one :mrgreen:). When Ferruccio knew it he decided to do the same thing, just to show he neither was a "puppet" :lol:
crabbies, stubborn, hot-tempered, but still 2 hard workers with a great heart :)

Enzo always accused Ferruccio to produce bad engines.... he used to say "u won't ever change, u will always be nothing more than a simple farm-tractor producer, and your cars are nothing more than sophisticated farm-tractors. No matter how beautiful they are your cars will always sound like a tractor. ferrari's engines instead make music" :):mrgreen:
may them rest in peace :)


EDIT: sorry Nick, i didn't pay enough attention to your post before. reading your post again, i'm realising u were actually talking about Lamborghini.:mrgreen:
my bad ;) :)
 
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No problem, It was over a fault in Ferrucio's Ferrari gear box, so the story goes he complained and pointed out the fault in person to Enzo who told him to go away and make Tractors... He then found out the gearbox company was the same one that supplied his Tractor factory, so he got the part and fixed it. This inspired him to start making cars...
 
Blimey, I touched a nerve didn't I.

I think you'll find the Ferrari team isn't entirely Italian either.

Using Liverpool as an example is pretty poor don't you think.

Most people would consider our heartbeat to be Jamie Carragher and Steven Gerrard. Both English and both Liverpudlian.

The captain and the real captain behind the scenes.

The lure of Ferrari is surely the fact they are the most succesful and they have been there from the start. Mclaren have been chopping and changing their names, and their partnerships with other manufacturers. Ferrari is the biggest brand in the car industry. Thats why you have ferrari flags everywhere.
 
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Using Liverpool as an example is pretty poor don't you think.
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no, i don't... neither u were able to show me why this example should be poor...... actually reading your post, one might think that when gerrard and carragher won't be playing for liverpool anymore, u will quit to be a liverpool fan..... wich looks pretty funny to me :mrgreen:

Peter Eyres said:
I think you'll find the Ferrari team isn't entirely Italian either.
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and i think u didn't pay enough attention to my previous post...

....but there's nothing to be surprised about, Peter. it's not really funny. Afterall we're not 2 idiot chauvinists....aren't we? . we don't need to see a "made in italy" logo (or a "made in england" logo) to appreciate something... don't we?....
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i don't need to "find" what the ferrari team is, i know it.
ferrari is not a "brand" like u might think. ferrari is the name of a man, of a family, who went through many adversities and face them with class, with a sense of honour that touched the whole world. their soul is still impressed upon their cars, it's still impressed upon the people who work in ferrari today (no matter where they come from). And that's what make us be happy for ferrari's victories (not the fact that the team is entirely italian). that's why u see all those ferrari's flags.
it doesn't matter who will come in ferrari tomorrow, english spanish, french.... they will always produce cars and vie with the same spirit; enzo ferrari's spirit, luca montezemolo's spirit.

ferrari is not just a "brand", is much more. it might look like a brand to those like u, who don't know ferrari, or to those silly people who think ferrari is a "status symbol":lol:

i could even try to educate u about the ferrari's spirit, but i don't think u are really interested... neither i'm interested in wasting my time writing something for someone who's not interested in reading it....... afterall u're just looking for someone whose nerves can be touched by your mots.

but i'm not your man then, Peter, as my nerves don't get touched by this kind of conversations :)

...as u're not the interlocutor i'm looking for, Peter. Coz i was just looking for an interesting conversation (not a silly boring cockfighting), and clearely u're not able to say anything interesting about formula 1, as it's pretty evident u don't know what u're talking about.

so i guess it's better if we cut it here and stop wasting our time replying each others.
i'm sure there are a lot of guys in this forum who would love to "conversate" with u.... but i guess i'm not the right interlocutor for u, peter.



Nick Cave said:
No problem, It was over a fault in Ferrucio's Ferrari gear box, so the story goes he complained and pointed out the fault in person to Enzo who told him to go away and make Tractors... He then found out the gearbox company was the same one that supplied his Tractor factory, so he got the part and fixed it. This inspired him to start making cars...
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exact mate. that's how everything began.:)
and it's pretty conforting to see there's somebody who knows what i'm talking about;)
 
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what is your fucking problem honestly.

I haven't been confrontational (until now :D)

I simply couldn't understand how an Italian could post a thread in this very forum boasting about Kimi's acheivment and lauding it as some sort of Italian sporting triumph comparable to the WC and Milan Cl win.

Now you've put forward an extremely valid case for your passionate love for Ferrari, but with very arrogant and aggressive overtones. You've called me a chauvinist. Which I'm not. Honest ;)

Would I support Liverpool if Carra and Gerrard suddenly left? Yes i would, but I would be distraught that a club that built its history and traditions on legendary 'British' (note, NOT english) players and managers, and a thorougly British support base had decided that cheaper foreign imports were more effective. As a unionist (not the millitant kind) that was important for me.

I do think your seriously over-rate the impact that Ferrari has had on the world. Its not some sort of spiritual family filled with holiness comparable to that of the Vatican. It is a brand, thats the way things are going I'm afraid, and that includes Liverpool.

You'd be a great PR manager for Ferrari though ;)

Even after reading your posts I'm still not sure. Would you have the same affinity for Ferrari if you were not Italian? Would you frown upon Italians boasting about Kimmi and Massa's recent success and claiming it as an Italian sporting triumph?

I'd certainly be embarrased.

Respect where respect is due. These guys remind me of someone:

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chel_002_470x336.jpg
 
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Who here think we'll see Hamilton fighting for the title again next year?
I think we've seen he has a chink in his armour and unless Mclaren have the fastest car again, I can't see him making an also run car better than it is, in the same way Schummy or the likes did. I'd like to be proved wrong...
 
I think hes fecking quick though, he's certainly got more talent than someone like Damon Hill who went on to win the title.

His problem last season was inexperience and last seasons loss will spur him on. If McLaren can give him the same sort of competitve car he will be up there again.
 
Clockender said:
I think hes fecking quick though, he's certainly got more talent than someone like Damon Hill who went on to win the title.

His problem last season was inexperience and last seasons loss will spur him on. If McLaren can give him the same sort of competitve car he will be up there again.
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Agree Clockender, he's quick and better than DH was, and a few past champs and so called current British stars, I think he's more than capable given the tools. I'd also like to see how Alonso goes now he's back with a side fully committed to him and will be interesting to see how much pressure there is on Hamilton, who will clearly be the no1 at Mclaren..
 
Should be a good season. The new Ferrari is coming along nicely. Anyone see Schumacher testing it? He was still beating everyone apart from De La Rosa who JUST beat him.
 
The_Special_One said:
Fernando Alonso sign with Renault. Nelsinho Piquet second Renault's driver. Very good team this Renault next season!
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I will laugh my ass off if Piquet junior "does a Lewis" and shows up Alonso, I feel Heikki was very hard done by as he got better and better as the season went on.
 
I tip the red machine to be best out of the box... I'm hoping some other players like Toyota are going to make up some ground. And is it just me or have some of the teams gone front wing mad... look at the size of some of those things?
 
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