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@Flipper the Priest Genuine question and no dig at Scottish football meant in any way at all, but what sort of level would you say the Scottish Premier is? It's just we've had some players that haven't been regulars with us and now play up there. Kabamba and Haunstrup at Kilmarnock for example. We also had Barton who moved to Partick when they were in the Premier and played that rarely for us that I can't recall his first name off the top of my head. We had Jayden Stockley on loan in Lge 2, who did pretty well with us before later going to you at Aberdeen, now in the Championship I think isn't he? I remember Rangers signing a couple of Accrington players too when they were in League 2, maybe 2-3 yrs back. It seems quite a mixed bag of levels of ability?
 
It's a tough one. I don't watch much English football but at guess I'd put Celtic and Rangers upper Championship, Aberdeen and Hibs lower Championship/upper League One, and the rest scattered further down League One and League Two.

It's hard to compare given there's little head to head. Man City dismantled Celtic a few years ago but that was an excellent Man City and an idiotically naïve Brendan Rodgers. Using players is a reasonable barometer but it's horses for courses. Take Aberdeen target men. Stockley was dreadful for Aberdeen, one lovely chip against Partick Thistle aside. He crosses the border and he's prolific. But then Sam Cosgrove barely kicks a ball for Wigan, and after a rocky start he's our best striker by a distance.

Top players seem to slot well enough into the Premier League. Van Dijk, Tierney, Armstrong in recent years as examples. Our top players move to better Championship teams (McLean to Norwich, Shinnie to Derby) and seem to do okay. But coming the other way it's all about risk-taking, given the budgets.

Ultimately Scotland's a nation of five million people, the league's got little global appeal and money is tight. Aberdeen's average wage is about £3k, which is League One/Two level (I think) but with some pretty handsome sign on fees and bonuses. But Hamilton pay about £800 a week. That's Conference level money. It's tough to take because football's left Scotland behind as it became a global business. Coupled with dreadful decision-making up here, chasing TV money.

For those reasons I can't fathom the English obsession with belittling Scottish football. It is what it is. But it does get my goat when English fans forget there are plenty of false positions and overspending in England. Whenever there's talk of Celtic and Rangers in England - yes they'd struggle now but they'd thrive with the increased income. They have the support to sustain it. But then you could say that of Newcastle, Leeds, Sunderland, the list goes on. But then there's the likes of Bournemouth. Aberdeen, Hearts and Hibs are "bigger" clubs than Bournemouth. I'll die on that hill. Bigger cities, bigger supports, history. With similar investment and income, what's to say they couldn't punch above their weight and dine at that table?

Lack of competition does hamper Scottish football's imagine. It seems completely implausible that any other team will get near Celtic and Rangers... Ever. The governance of the game here in appalling though, in terms of attracting and distributing income. Doesn't help. Although at the end of the game, how many teams will realistically contest the EPL title?

We're victims of geography and petty rivalry up here, as well as sharing many major news outlets. I can't imagine that Germans and Italians take digs at Austrian and Slovenian football with any regularity. I certainly don't want Scottish football to aspire to be like England. More the Scandinavian leagues which are comparable.
 
Further to this, looking at this weekend's pathetic TV schedule (seriously, there's too much football on TV), neutrals to do a lot worse than watch the rearranged cup semi finals. Edinburgh derby today and Aberdeen vs Celtic tomorrow.

The final is arranged for 20th December. I genuinely don't think I've ever wanted anything more for Christmas.
 
I completely agree about too much football on tv and I would never have thought I would say that 10-15 years ago. I struggle to find any enthusiasm to watch group stage European football these days and I find half the Premier games I don't bother with either. You couldn't pay me £15 to watch Palace as a neutral.

Interesting stuff about the Scottish Leagues, it really is some mix of talent then. One the one hand you have the likes of a Van Dijk, Tierney (very impressed with what I've seen of him in Arsenal games by the way) and at the other you have a Kabamba who we picked up from non league and with the best will in the world looked like Bambi on ice in the few games he had for us. Ends up at Kilmarnock, via Hartlepool (!) and scores in his first game against Celtic.

When you look at some of the teams who have been in the Premier and done pretty well, like Bournemouth as you say, then there's no reason an Aberdeen, Hibs, Hearts couldn't do that in the same situation.
 
A tweet reminded me of a GIF I made from the official 1990 World Cup film when I binged on them earlier in the year:


FIFA should insist that every full time whistle be blown like that. Sunday league to World Cup level.
 
@Flipper the Priest Just that sentence alone. He had spells at Real Madrid, Barcelona and Portsmouth :LOL: Just totally mad that it even happened. Despite the Premier years that followed after this, still to this day the best player I've ever seen live. An absolute privilege to watch him play and memories I will never forget.

Oh and did you spot who passed to him in that clip?
 
mattmid said:
@Flipper the Priest Just that sentence alone. He had spells at Real Madrid, Barcelona and Portsmouth :LOL: Just totally mad that it even happened. Despite the Premier years that followed after this, still to this day the best player I've ever seen live. An absolute privilege to watch him play and memories I will never forget.

Oh and did you spot who passed to him in that clip?
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Cmon dude with this Prosinecki. You had the privilege to admire Skopelitis and Chalkias!!! :) :P :BOP: :BOP: :APPLAUD::APPLAUD:

As for the pass I am not sure, I checked transfermarkt.. I won't make spoiler..
 
The Trojan Horse would have been a more welcome gift from Greece than those two. :D

Skopelitis ran around a lot and was enthusiastic. I'm struggling to find any more positives. :D Chalkias was I'm afraid absolutely awful for us. I seem to remember he had a fairly decent reputation but he was honestly shockingly bad in the few appearances he made.

Found this online, which sums it up...

The Greek was brought to England by Portsmouth in 2005. He had been Greece’s reserve keeper during their triumph at the 2004 European Championships just six months before and many thought it was a decent piece of business.

However, it was clear from the first game that Chalkias was not up to the standard required. His debut against fierce rivals Southampton saw him flap at a number of crosses, and in subsequent matches, he made a whole host of mistakes. After just six appearances, he was allowed to leave by mutual consent a year after arriving.


We did very briefly have Basinas too, he looked good even though it was the tail end of his career, but didn't get much of a look in and wasn't there very long.

We had Gekas on loan too but I think he only played one game.

We had another Greek guy too I'm sure, ah can't think of his name at the moment. Think the surname began with K, Kazaridis maybe? Aha Nikolais Kyzeridis it would seem having just searched. That must be him. Seems he only played 4 times in 1998. I remember being quite impressed with his first couple of games, think he must have got injured and evidently didn't play any more.

I think @Flipper the Priest will know the passer as he's Scottish.

I bet Prosinecki shudders when he thinks of the quality (or lack there of!) that he played with that season :LOL: However we did have a 19yr old Peter Crouch who scored I think 20 goals that season, just about all made by Prosinecki.
 
@mattmid - Kevin Harper! Genuinely would've gotten it without the hint! Great player on his day.

Portsmouth had quite a few 'Scots' over a period. Harper, Quashie, Burchill, Hughes... [checks for missed ones] Paul Ritchie, Scott Wilson and Garry Brady too! I had either forgotten or never known of those three. Paul Ritchie was a wasted talent.
 
Flipper the Priest said:
@mattmid - Kevin Harper! Genuinely would've gotten it without the hint! Great player on his day.

Portsmouth had quite a few 'Scots' over a period. Harper, Quashie, Burchill, Hughes... [checks for missed ones] Paul Ritchie, Scott Wilson and Garry Brady too! I had either forgotten or never known of those three. Paul Ritchie was a wasted talent.
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Thought you would get him. :))

Mark Burchill was a sad one, started the season on fire after signing for us but then did his cruciate ligaments and that was his season done and never really got another crack at it. Think he then had some off field problems.

We also had Kenny Black from Hearts and Gerry Creaney from Celtic - another wasted talent. I seem to recall he got a fractured cheekbone on a night out in Portsmouth after allegedly sleeping with the wrong person's girlfriend! Good player but a bit of a big time charlie apparently as he'd been at Celtic before us.
 
mattmid said:
The Trojan Horse would have been a more welcome gift from Greece than those two. :D

Skopelitis ran around a lot and was enthusiastic. I'm struggling to find any more positives. :D Chalkias was I'm afraid absolutely awful for us. I seem to remember he had a fairly decent reputation but he was honestly shockingly bad in the few appearances he made.

Found this online, which sums it up...

The Greek was brought to England by Portsmouth in 2005. He had been Greece’s reserve keeper during their triumph at the 2004 European Championships just six months before and many thought it was a decent piece of business.

However, it was clear from the first game that Chalkias was not up to the standard required. His debut against fierce rivals Southampton saw him flap at a number of crosses, and in subsequent matches, he made a whole host of mistakes. After just six appearances, he was allowed to leave by mutual consent a year after arriving.


We did very briefly have Basinas too, he looked good even though it was the tail end of his career, but didn't get much of a look in and wasn't there very long.

We had Gekas on loan too but I think he only played one game.

We had another Greek guy too I'm sure, ah can't think of his name at the moment. Think the surname began with K, Kazaridis maybe? Aha Nikolais Kyzeridis it would seem having just searched. That must be him. Seems he only played 4 times in 1998. I remember being quite impressed with his first couple of games, think he must have got injured and evidently didn't play any more.

I think @Flipper the Priest will know the passer as he's Scottish.

I bet Prosinecki shudders when he thinks of the quality (or lack there of!) that he played with that season :LOL: However we did have a 19yr old Peter Crouch who scored I think 20 goals that season, just about all made by Prosinecki.
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Yeah seems a lot Greeks passed Portsmouth, I've even forgotten some. Tavlaridis was also a CB as I check

About Skopelitis & Chalkias I am pretty sure Velimir Zajec was pushing for their moves, as he was general manager in Panathinaikos before Portsmouth.

Chalkias was very strange GK. He started as a super hot prospect in the late 90s and in early 00s, I think 2001 in a CL match Panathinaikos VS Super Deportivo la Coruna of that era, he did a triple 1on1 save and injured badly his shoulder. Got subbed, lost both the season and his position as No1 from Nikopolidis, and was never again the same good GK for the rest of his career, really strange!
Even after 2008 when he started again playing top class, he was very inconsistent. He could save the impossible and concede the most ridiculous.

Now by Skopelitis, I always remember an other crazy dramatic story of that non-intermet dar era. The season 2004-05 or 2005-06, there was another player in Skopelitis ex Greek team, a Striker named Anestis Agritis. I am really curious to ask you @mattmid as a Portsmouth fan if you have ever heard of that name, as a rumored transfer.

This Player, Agritis, had a good half season, and suddenly his team stopped playing him, because it was heavily rumored by the press that he had a pre-contract with Portsmouth. The drama became gigantic, as everyone was asking where is Agritis???
TV was not reshowimg old matches, youtube was not a thing as today, so we got in a situation of rumors where almost nobody could remember if Agritis was a good player or not.. And people on newspapers and sport radio broadcasts had gone mad.
Why he is not movimg to Portsmouth, why he is not playing with his team, why Otto Rehhagel does not summon him to Greece NT.?

Then a rumor was spread that Dynamo Kiev!!!! Was trying to sneak sign him and Portsmouth demanded him no to play, in order for the transfer to be completed.
Right before the summer of Wc 2006, someone revealed that Portsmouth was a camouflage and the real transfer was worked undercover to be to Real Madrid!!!! He was also totally absent and did not made any statements to the press for that whole year!! As they were hiding him!

Finally he moved to Kickers Offenbach!!!! not even Bundesliga Club :P

Nowadays I suppose this story was some managerial BS of that time, but I really wonder if even Portsmouth ever knew this player existed!!! :)

https://www.transfermarkt.com/anestis-agritis/profil/spieler/13849
 
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That name doesn't ring a bell at all for me. But then I seem to remember that Skopelitis appeared out of nowhere. It makes sense that Zajec may have had something to do with those transfers then. All that talk of other clubs including Madrid and then he ends up at Offenbach :LOL: It's kind of sad these types of things can't happen any more with the global information we have now.

We had quite a few foreign players come and go over that late 90's, early 00's period. I remember one young guy we got from Roma, who I believe started at Lazio, maybe @Madmac79 may remember him? Alessandro Zamperini was his name. He was 19 when we signed him, nobody had ever heard of him. He was actually pretty decent (we were in the Championship at the time) and he played quite a few games that season but went back to Italy the following season. I remember looking him up years later to find he had been suspended for two years for match fixing.
 
@mattmid I remember the guy only from the match fixing scandal you mentioned, I totally forgot he played for both Lazio and roma at youth level! I'm afraid the suspension is the only thing he's "famous" for here, after the Porthsmouth stint he just had a very mediocre career here in Italy.
 
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