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FIFA/FC vs PES/eFootball

Got to say that the Ai in PES2019 is a huge let down for me. Apart from the occasional fake shot The player individuality from the Ai is almost non-existant compared to FIFA 19. Players like Neymar and Messi just don't stand out when controlled by the Ai on PES but in FIFA the CPU will often use skilled dribbling.
 
Paynekiller said:
Got to say that the Ai in PES2019 is a huge let down for me. Apart from the occasional fake shot The player individuality from the Ai is almost non-existant compared to FIFA 19. Players like Neymar and Messi just don't stand out when controlled by the Ai on PES but in FIFA the CPU will often use skilled dribbling.
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Fake-Shot in FIFA 19 is something incredible.
Something PES should definitely take note of and be re-worked.
 
Chuny said:
Fake-Shot in FIFA 19 is something incredible.
Something PES should definitely take note of and be re-worked.
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incredible what!? overpowered? awesome looking? ;)
the PES standard fake shot is not that good, i agree! the PES super cancel fake shot is another story (not worse than FIFA's).
or what did i miss?
 
PRO_TOO said:
incredible what!? overpowered? awesome looking? ;)
the PES standard fake shot is not that good, i agree! the PES super cancel fake shot is another story (not worse than FIFA's).
or what did i miss?
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Incredible meaning very useful, lifelike and good-looking.
Kind of what PES' fake shot used to be in PES 2013. Then they changed it and they ruined it.
 
Rodchenko said:
This looks fairly good to me, speed-wise.



Turned running speed down to 30 for both, passing speed and acceleration slightly under 50 and passing error to 55 and this is immense fun at the moment as Newcastle on Legendary career.

I've given up on PES pretty much for the exact reasons you mentioned. There is lots of crappy stuff in FIFA, but unlike PES, I always feel in control of what's happening on the pitch.

Edit: this is not my video. I found it on youtube when looking for slider settings and it made me give FIFA a second chance
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why does it look (and feel) like they are kicking a medicine ball at times. The ball is just too heavy and isnt free it enough. This is what kills FIFA for me. How the ball moves in PES is miles ahead of FIFA which makes it play a better game. Really disappointment with FIFA this year and gutted i bought it on digital. Sliders dont really help as you address one thing and break another
 
hitmanuk said:
why does it look (and feel) like they are kicking a medicine ball at times. The ball is just too heavy and isnt free it enough. This is what kills FIFA for me. How the ball moves in PES is miles ahead of FIFA which makes it play a better game. Really disappointment with FIFA this year and gutted i bought it on digital. Sliders dont really help as you address one thing and break another
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I agree PES's ball physics are superior (though I'm not sure I'd say it's more free, as I remember a sense of feeling like things were predetermined quite a bit) but I'm surprised that you'd find it such a problem in FIFA to make the game unplayable. I would stay away from PES for a while and just play FIFA, and then see if you acclimate. Worked for me.
 
hitmanuk said:
why does it look (and feel) like they are kicking a medicine ball at times. The ball is just too heavy and isnt free it enough. This is what kills FIFA for me. How the ball moves in PES is miles ahead of FIFA which makes it play a better game. Really disappointment with FIFA this year and gutted i bought it on digital. Sliders dont really help as you address one thing and break another
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This must be at least the 25th time you’ve complained about the ball physics in Fifa since release. I don’t mean to have a dig but, c’mon man, we heard you the first time.

FWIW, the ball physics to me are just fine and seem to represent what I’d expect from a football as each passage of play is rendered.
 
Rodchenko said:
This looks fairly good to me, speed-wise.



Turned running speed down to 30 for both, passing speed and acceleration slightly under 50 and passing error to 55 and this is immense fun at the moment as Newcastle on Legendary career.

I've given up on PES pretty much for the exact reasons you mentioned. There is lots of crappy stuff in FIFA, but unlike PES, I always feel in control of what's happening on the pitch.

Edit: this is not my video. I found it on youtube when looking for slider settings and it made me give FIFA a second chance
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Great camera setting. Can you tell me which camera do you use?
 
bluewomble88 said:
This must be at least the 25th time you’ve complained about the ball physics in Fifa since release. I don’t mean to have a dig but, c’mon man, we heard you the first time.

FWIW, the ball physics to me are just fine and seem to represent what I’d expect from a football as each passage of play is rendered.
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To be fair if people are going to keep posting videos then surely I can comment on them. If it was positive stuff can I say that.more than once.
 
hitmanuk said:
To be fair if people are going to keep posting videos then surely I can comment on them. If it was positive stuff can I say that.more than once.
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Just understand that the game always looks worse in gameplay videos than how it actually plays. I'd be careful making judgements based on vids alone.
 
hitmanuk said:
To be fair if people are going to keep posting videos then surely I can comment on them. If it was positive stuff can I say that.more than once.
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The video was a reply to Chris' concern about the game speed, not a comment on the ball physics in FIFA.

I agree that the they are better in PES, mainly because loose balls don't have the "wet pitch" effect they have in FIFA.

We all have our personal "zero tolerance" aspects. I for one can live with the ball slowing down in FIFA unnaturally, because it's basically only the case with through balls which you have to overpower a bit to compensate. You get used to it pretty quickly. But I can't deal with the shallowness and repetitiveness of PESs AI, nor the lack of variety in attacking and scoring, nor with the idiotic replays of standing tackles and offsides, nor with the uninspired and cheesy way ML is handled. Sadly there is no way to compensate. You can either get used to it or not.

Currently, I can't. Doesn't make FIFA play the better game (let alone by "miles"). It's only the game I currently prefer.
 
Yup.. looks much more like pes.. but there arr moments when they jump againts the las of gravity and law of physics.. for example they jump straight from standing position, no leg pump. :D

Btw the thing pes needs from fifa is the vast amount of direction and physic ball can go to acccording to your stick and the point where player foots kick especially in shooting. Nonetheless. Fifa pass ball physic looks crap though :BORED:.
 
I have read this
Gunslinger said:
There's the odd bit of inspiration in there but in general they're poor for a game produced in 2018. Very off-putting.
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And either i am blind or i can't understand how can someone say Fifa animations are less skaty or floaty than Pes animations.

I mean, look at this



Marcela is literally skating along the flank at 2:00 minute. That's just one example of many i can find in that match. That is Fifa 19 Pc 60 fps updated to the latest patch.

I mean animations variety in Pes is lower, especially on shots, headers, but Pes 2019 animations are smooth and look more life like than Fifa's that's for sure.
 
Ameppe said:
I have read this
And either i am blind or i can't understand how can someone say Fifa animations are less skaty or floaty than Pes animations.

I mean, look at this
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That's fair enough, and I think you're right - two wrongs don't make a right though, would be my first point.

But perhaps more importantly - when it happens in PES, a lot of the time it's in order to aid programming shortcuts (which, against the AI, I would label as AI cheating - a tool the game wields to try and force the result it considers to be realistic, it's not at all related to attributes). It's the game going "I can't let that run/pass happen, so I'm going to stretch this animation out and make you virtually jog on the spot for a second".

In FIFA, it's the result of Frostbite being pretty crap for a football game - in the example you mention, there is no advantage (or disadvantage) that comes out of the crap animation. Maybe those events happen, but I'm yet to see one of my players fail to beat a man or score a goal because of a clear animation "cheat", whereas in PES, it's literally every single game (the video I uploaded in the PES thread was my first match of the night).
 
Ameppe said:
I have read this


And either i am blind or i can't understand how can someone say Fifa animations are less skaty or floaty than Pes animations.

I mean, look at this



Marcela is literally skating along the flank at 2:00 minute. That's just one example of many i can find in that match. That is Fifa 19 Pc 60 fps updated to the latest patch.

I mean animations variety in Pes is lower, especially on shots, headers, but Pes 2019 animations are smooth and look more life like than Fifa's that's for sure.
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I read on Twitter this morning that someone said PES had skatey animations and i was wondering what game they were playing. I think PES has weight spot on. I also don't get this shooting has no feeling in PES. Admittedly FIFA has more shooting animations but PES still has the better feeling when you score. FIFA is getting better though with the right sliders(not tried latest patch yet) out of the box though its shocking.
 
Chris Davies said:
That's fair enough, and I think you're right - two wrongs don't make a right though, would be my first point.

But perhaps more importantly - when it happens in PES, a lot of the time it's in order to aid programming shortcuts (which, against the AI, I would label as AI cheating - a tool the game wields to try and force the result it considers to be realistic, it's not at all related to attributes). It's the game going "I can't let that run/pass happen, so I'm going to stretch this animation out and make you virtually jog on the spot for a second".

In FIFA, it's the result of Frostbite being pretty crap for a football game - in the example you mention, there is no advantage (or disadvantage) that comes out of the crap animation. Maybe those events happen, but I'm yet to see one of my players fail to beat a man or score a goal because of a clear animation "cheat", whereas in PES, it's literally every single game (the video I uploaded in the PES thread was my first match of the night).
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That's a different matter though. I am just commenting about the quality of animations. They could be more and better in Pes, that's for sure but they are simply better looking in Pes in my opinion.
 
hitmanuk said:
I read on Twitter this morning that someone said PES had skatey animations and i was wondering what game they were playing.
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That was me, and as I said at the time, I was posting a video of it happening so I don't really understand how you can say that! The answer to "what game are you playing" is literally "PES 2019, watch the video and you'll see it"! :LOL:

I wasn't saying "hey guys, PES is skatier than FIFA, look at this", because it's not. But when PES does it, it's to get an unfair advantage, because it has to, to force the result.

The ridiculous thing is, if it was all taken away (and I'm sure it's "team spirit" that does it), I'm sure the game would be challenging enough to win anyway. If only we could disable it!

EDIT: Hang on, just had a thought - if you play PES on PC, could you mod it so that your team (and every team) permanently has 99 "team spirit" (I've read that the AI all permanently have 99 anyway)?

Is it way too easy then, or is it a level playing field (like exhibition matches)?

Or is this a massive oversimplification of a deeper problem...?
 
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For me, the whole animation and ball physics discussion gets to its critical point when it it comes to the relation of things - and this is where FIFA fails so badly to reach the minimal standards of simulation. The movement speed of body or leg actions doesn´t match the speed of the surrouding elements, especially the ball. It feels like they took several elements from different games and put it together somehow. This is much more than a cosmetical thing to me, as it invites you to perform unnatural actions and at the same time you have to deal with them against CPU and human players.

As mentioned in the FIFA thread, a tackling player getting up faster than the other player needs to touch the ground is a perversion of realism, and FIFA is currently dominated by such extraterrestial phenomena.
 
Chris Davies said:
That was me, and as I said at the time, I was posting a video of it happening so I don't really understand how you can say that! The answer to "what game are you playing" is literally "PES 2019, watch the video and you'll see it"! :LOL:

I wasn't saying "hey guys, PES is skatier than FIFA, look at this", because it's not. But when PES does it, it's to get an unfair advantage, because it has to, to force the result.

The ridiculous thing is, if it was all taken away (and I'm sure it's "team spirit" that does it), I'm sure the game would be challenging enough to win anyway. If only we could disable it!

EDIT: Hang on, just had a thought - if you play PES on PC, could you mod it so that your team (and every team) permanently has 99 "team spirit" (I've read that the AI all permanently have 99 anyway)?

Is it way too easy then, or is it a level playing field (like exhibition matches)?

Or is this a massive oversimplification of a deeper problem...?
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I think @juce or @nesa24 could probably find an answer to that when they have time.
I don't think it's impossible.
Disabling Team Spirit or locking all teams to 99 from the start.
And since we're shooting stars,there's another small addition that could be great: Having some sort of module or edit that treats all teams to as Rivals.

You know that in Edit Mode you can set a team to have up to 3 Rival teams?. And when you play against one of those 3 teams, games are a lot more intense, aggressive, and gameplay suddenly becomes more realistic?Well, wouldn't it be nice if that was actually the game's default behaviour?.
 
philla said:
For me, the whole animation and ball physics discussion gets to its critical point when it it comes to the relation of things - and this is where FIFA fails so badly to reach the minimal standards of simulation. The movement speed of body or leg actions doesn´t match the speed of the surrouding elements, especially the ball. It feels like they took several elements from different games and put it together somehow. This is much more than a cosmetical thing to me, as it invites you to perform unnatural actions and at the same time you have to deal with them against CPU and human players.

As mentioned in the FIFA thread, a tackling player getting up faster than the other player needs to touch the ground is a perversion of realism, and FIFA is currently dominated by such extraterrestial phenomena.
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I'd say that's true for both games, though FIFA is probably the worst of the two. For me, while playing FIFA the animations can feel and look a little sped up, playing PES I feel like there's animations that are the opposite, as if the game is playing in slow motion at times. It's better than it once was but there's still a good number of sluggish or too slow animations.
 
philla said:
For me, the whole animation and ball physics discussion gets to its critical point when it it comes to the relation of things - and this is where FIFA fails so badly to reach the minimal standards of simulation. The movement speed of body or leg actions doesn´t match the speed of the surrouding elements, especially the ball. It feels like they took several elements from different games and put it together somehow. This is much more than a cosmetical thing to me, as it invites you to perform unnatural actions and at the same time you have to deal with them against CPU and human players.

As mentioned in the FIFA thread, a tackling player getting up faster than the other player needs to touch the ground is a perversion of realism, and FIFA is currently dominated by such extraterrestial phenomena.
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I appreciate that there has probably been patches since this (looks like the demo), but how could defensive headers be allowed to go that far... Obviously there is no actual physics, with the result coming from a proper calculation of the collision between ball and head/foot. Most of the game seems to just rely on numerical variables (like power/spin/error) trying to produce something that tries to visually look convincing, instead of being built from the ground up to naturally produce anything convincing with proper physics. Only on tackles/deflections does it seem to actually use physics.

I'm not saying PES does this much/any better... I'm fed up with both games still using such simplistic mechanics that feel so artificial. Developments in hardware capability only seem to have brought improvements to the style and none to the substance.
 
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Even though I'm enjoying Fifa,the players skate around way to much.
Plus when switching players sometimes it looks and feels like they have a bungy cord up their ass,and someone is pulling it back and the players try to run forward
Looks horrible,but I know that's down to sprint/Acc values.
 
FIFA player skating animations have definitely gotten worse in the frostbite engine but PES skating issues have existed since atleast when it started using the Fox engine. I tend to only notice skating issues on FIFA when viewing replays but appear more noticeable in PES during gameplay. Foot planting issues are always going to exist in both games, unfortunately.
 
Interesting news.

Long story short, someone has figured out a method to extrapolate the number of players to have played PS4 games using the videos I mentioned in the PS4 thread (these are NOT SALES, i.e. more than one user account can play one purchased copy of a game, HOWEVER it does provide an insight of sorts into how many copies are out there).

Here are FIFA's numbers. Remember, this is exclusively on PS4. Numbers are accurate as of mid-November (so don't include things like copies bought for Christmas):

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Even taking the Christmas copies and sale copies into account... Wowzers.

So, I wanted to find out how PES's numbers compared. There is a database of these figures at Gamstat.com, but not every game is featured. Only two PES games are on there at the minute - but if you can find a screenshot of the trophies, you can extrapolate the figures.

In the Reddit thread about this, someone posted a ZIP file full of screenshots from thousands of videos.

Guess what - all the PES games are in there and can be accounted for.

So here we go...

PES 2015 - 1,380,000 (EUR/AUS/ASIA)
PES 2016 - 2,680,000 (WORLDWIDE)
PES 2017 - 2,055,000 (WORLDWIDE)
PES 2018 - 2,080,000 (WORLDWIDE)
PES 2019 - 660,000 (WORLDWIDE)

Here's the working for those who have to verify...

PES 2015 & PES 2016 already exist in the Gamstat.com database.
To get the total, you multiply the amount who have unlocked the trophy by 100, then divide that number by the percentage who have unlocked that trophy, as confirmed on PlayStation.com.

PES 2017 (NPWR11028_00) TROPHY:
Have A Try Online (166,514), 8.1%
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PES 2018 (NPWR13106_00) TROPHY:
Won in AFC Champions League (70,819), 3.4%
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PES 2019 (NPWR14946_00) TROPHY:
One Of Our Own (78,638), 11.9%
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