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FIFA/FC vs PES/eFootball

craney91 said:
My point is if you use sliders FINE. But the core game, the foundations, need to be better or else sliders wont actually fix core issues. They'll tweak things around those issues, but those issues are still there.
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None of the people here using them claimed something else.
Tbh you sound like a broken record.
Every post of yours is the same thing over and over again.
I guess we got it.
 
I ended up selling FIFA 17 to CEX yesterday. Got £32 which isn't too much of a loss after buying it for £39 from ShopTo. Wasn't for me in the end, too fast and frantic and that shielding of the ball bollocks was over done and exploited like shit online!
 
TroyDeeneyScoredAPenal! said:
I ended up selling FIFA 17 to CEX yesterday. Got £32 which isn't too much of a loss after buying it for £39 from ShopTo. Wasn't for me in the end, too fast and frantic and that shielding of the ball bollocks was over done and exploited like shit online!
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"OHHH I DO NOT BELIEVE THIS!!! ORRRRRHHH HE'S DOWN!! TROY DEENEY HAS GONE DOWN!!! TROY DEENEY HAS GONE DOWN AND IS OUT FOR THE SEASON!!!!"

;)
 
TroyDeeneyScoredAPenal! said:
I ended up selling FIFA 17 to CEX yesterday. Got £32 which isn't too much of a loss after buying it for £39 from ShopTo. Wasn't for me in the end, too fast and frantic and that shielding of the ball bollocks was over done and exploited like shit online!
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I saw so many players doing that shielding thing in my Career Mode - looked so unnatural.
 
Final Pass said:
I saw so many players doing that shielding thing in my Career Mode - looked so unnatural.
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Seems to depend on the difficulty level. After I switched to a lower difficulty, I stopped seeing the CPU shielding. Gotta be 15 or more games now since I've seen it happen in a game. Great part as well is I'm now able to slide tackle and dispossess the CPU of the ball. I wasn't able to do that at all on the higher levels, the CPU would psychically anticipate the tackle and turn away in the other direction.
 
angus said:
Seems to depend on the difficulty level. After I switched to a lower difficulty, I stopped seeing the CPU shielding. Gotta be 15 or more games now since I've seen it happen in a game. Great part as well is I'm now able to slide tackle and dispossess the CPU of the ball. I wasn't able to do that at all on the higher levels, the CPU would psychically anticipate the tackle and turn away in the other direction.
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My issue was that FIFA was too easy unless in Legendary (for me anyway).
 
My offline impressions on my issues with both games:

Fifa:

-No fouls
- Negative repetitive AI
- No individualism
- Overpowered headers
- Goalies stuck to their lines
- Very linear gameplay even on full manual
- End to end games with the 90 minute goal being replaced by the 87 obligatory minute AI goal.
- No midfield battle, Like a basketball game
- Sliders are mostly a cosmetic, They don't address core issues like positioning,Players running away from the ball or defences opening up for no reason. (Matts work is impressive though)


PES:

-AI needs tweaking, their tactical choices are weird and on higher difficulties they just seem un interested.

- Ping pong passing passages, Unless you're playing on full manual, You could wait for 20 minutes to make a sub as the ball doesn't go out of play and fouls sometimes disappear!

-Repetitive AI goals, gk parrying it conveniently to their striker,side foot into the lower far corner from the six yard box, limp header or that scripted volley of a cleared ball outside the box.

-Played ML for two seasons and only needed to change 2 players for suspensions after picking up yellow cards. No injuries,No fatigue so no need to manage anything tbh

- gk stuck to their lines, most of the attacking happens inside the box or top of the six yard box, This is not futsal

- Crossing is OP + limp headers and it's really something that can be exploited easily.

- Standing tackle is OP as well, Doesn't need a lot of skill to win the ball back

- Stumbling animation is poor and unfair.

Both games have a lot of positives that I like, but for an offline gamer like myself, These issues are unacceptable at this day and age and put me off playing these games, I hope they are addressed in some way or another.

Football is a beautiful game not a scripted repetitive robotic chore!
 
I enjoyed the PES demo so got it. I absolutely love it and all my free time on my PS4 is Master League. The gameplay is tremendous, and that's from a FIFA player who has hated Pro Evo since the glory days. I didn't get FIFA as I didn't want to stop playing PES, and not go back and had in my mind the idea of buying the PS Pro and FIFA at the same time, so something to look forward to after a good 2/3 months of PES.

Now with what everyone says about FIFA and how PES is getting even better for me, I'm not sure I'll bother.
 
In the interest of balance i feel the need to vent on the Pes vs Fifa debate. I went back to Pes the last few days and gave FIFA a rest, i just dont think you can play the two games together as it jars for some reason. Those that say that Pes A.I is realitic, well i feel they are barking up the wrong tree.

I can't consider it realistic unless i see variation. Sure, sometimes they attack through the middle, or maybe use the wings, and some teams use long balls and short passing. But in every instance the CPU just wants to attack. They immediately just want to go forward. Theres no build up, or working the ball into space to break me down. their first thought is always forwards which leads to repetitive long balls, or a ping pong style one touch passage of play where they work their way up to your box in 5 passes (and thats with teams who are mid to low tier at best).

Its just pace, pace , pace. Its like the Liverpol -Dortmund second leg last year, which yes, does happen. But the trouble with Pes is that it happens every game. I also dont want to have to spend 30 minutes on a match to see a supposedly slower tempo game. I just dont have the time for that.

Ive seen lots levelled at Fifa and yeah it needs work in places, but at least the games are not frenetic every time. Ive had dull 0-0's and i've had games that finished 4-2 and 3-3. Theres variation there for sure.

Pes is a good game, theres no denying it and its definitely got something going on but for goodness sakes i hope they patch it. Knocking game speed down is not an answer. The ball doesnt move as well, the fluidity is kind of off. It needs it's natural pace altering. If i try and play a slower more considered game the cpu just pressurises me into playing a fast game, where i constantly need to give the ball to the next man to avoid being robbed of possesion.
 
Antoine said:
Its just pace, pace , pace. Its like the Liverpol -Dortmund second leg last year, which yes, does happen. But the trouble with Pes is that it happens every game. I also dont want to have to spend 30 minutes on a match to see a supposedly slower tempo game. I just dont have the time for that.
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That's a fair shout, and guys like Matt were saying from release day that PES is incredibly end-to-end this year (and for the record, I bumped match time up to 20 minutes last night and ended a half with twice the number of shots as normal - i.e. I didn't experience the AI playing any differently, but, I know other people are sure that happens).

I was thinking this myself last night - I've finally put together a set of FIFA sliders I'm happy with (with the main game-changers for me being "slow" speed, 49 pace, 49 accel and 43 pass speed with even less for the AI). With them, I don't see any of the weird ball physics, and it feels closer to last year's (more stable) engine.

But I played three games, as Hull against Leicester, Middlesbrough and Liverpool, and A) they were all 0-0, and B) I never had to change my approach - pass to Huddlestone, run forward in a straight line, use his strength to fend people off, and play the ball to the striker who's running between the centre-backs who can then shoot (I'm ashamed that I didn't score any, but I'm playing around with semi shooting) - if that doesn't work, the wingers will always get themselves space on the wing, and will always be able to run past any wing-backs.

In PES I find myself trying those same things out of habit, and sometimes they work. Most times, they don't, and I have to pass it around and make an opportunity first - even though, I concede, the AI never seems to have to do this itself.

The more I play FIFA, the more I begrudgingly like it (I say that because I'll always miss the tactical elements they don't seem to include, and the individuality that PES has). I'm sort of glad I'm having a ball with the player career mode in FIFA - I find I can play that on the Be A Pro camera and then play PES immediately afterwards without feeling like I'm missing out on anything.
 
Chris Davies said:
That's a fair shout, and guys like Matt were saying from release day that PES is incredibly end-to-end this year (and for the record, I bumped match time up to 20 minutes last night and ended a half with twice the number of shots as normal - i.e. I didn't experience the AI playing any differently, but, I know other people are sure that happens).

I was thinking this myself last night - I've finally put together a set of FIFA sliders I'm happy with (with the main game-changers for me being "slow" speed, 49 pace, 49 accel and 43 pass speed with even less for the AI). With them, I don't see any of the weird ball physics, and it feels closer to last year's (more stable) engine.

But I played three games, as Hull against Leicester, Middlesbrough and Liverpool, and A) they were all 0-0, and B) I never had to change my approach - pass to Huddlestone, run forward in a straight line, use his strength to fend people off, and play the ball to the striker who's running between the centre-backs who can then shoot (I'm ashamed that I didn't score any, but I'm playing around with semi shooting) - if that doesn't work, the wingers will always get themselves space on the wing, and will always be able to run past any wing-backs.

In PES I find myself trying those same things out of habit, and sometimes they work. Most times, they don't, and I have to pass it around and make an opportunity first - even though, I concede, the AI never seems to have to do this itself.

The more I play FIFA, the more I begrudgingly like it (I say that because I'll always miss the tactical elements they don't seem to include, and the individuality that PES has). I'm sort of glad I'm having a ball with the player career mode in FIFA - I find I can play that on the Be A Pro camera and then play PES immediately afterwards without feeling like I'm missing out on anything.
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How do you like the player career mode this year?
I got bored on 16 after a few season,there's very little variation on were you could go.
Have they changed the contracts,so that you can go free agent?
I remember simming a whole season and not playing one game,yet my player went up in value from €7 mil to €12 mil.
Very strange
And being in a team that I wanted,they started selling all their good players.
Would be realistic,if they had changes in management aswell.
Always enjoy that mode,but only to a point,after that it gets stale,same teams offering contracts,never ending ones to.
If they'd change that,I'll probably jump onboard 17 to.

A nice thing would be if you could start at your local lower league side,have a career,then play there again for your final seasons.

Not touching PES version of it,since I like controlling the whole team
 
rockstrongo said:
How do you like the player career mode this year?
I got bored on 16 after a few season,there's very little variation on were you could go.
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I don't think any of the mechanics have changed Rock, in terms of being able to become a free agent etc... But the gameplay really suits being a single player, I think (especially on World Class). I want to be a player for 15 years so I can become a manager and see if it makes you choose an avatar that looks nothing like your player did (it's a feature that's been in FIFA for years now but I've never played for long enough to test it out)!

I think the value going up despite not playing for a season is because the value goes up (or down) depending on age, but not the number of games. You get more value as you approach the "perfect age" for the position you play, from personal experience, but a lack of games doesn't change your value (only bad games).

I agree with the "local side" stuff - I was only saying yesterday, in a different thread, that This is Football let you start off playing for a school team, which became a Sunday League team, which you could try to make into a professional league team. There was something magical about playing on a schoolyard, and then a park, and then an actual stadium. No other football game has tried to be as deep as that.

Even PES used to make you fight for recognition before your teammates would trust you enough to pass to you, and your assistant manager would tell you what was expected of you pre-game. We've lost all that. The PES control-a-single-player experience is pretty rubbish this year (although you can complain about being played out of position). The FIFA one is pretty good, so far. Repetitive but somehow exciting. I just wish the players didn't always do what I ask like I'm a God.
 
Chris I find that anything other than Legendary made FIFA's since FIFA 09 far too easy. I was working out how the AI played and was able to score the same goal time and time again.
 
I'm such a causal gamer these days that FIFA with a good set of sliders is my game of choice.
I'll still play pes of course but not as much
 
Chris Davies said:
I don't think any of the mechanics have changed Rock, in terms of being able to become a free agent etc... But the gameplay really suits being a single player, I think (especially on World Class). I want to be a player for 15 years so I can become a manager and see if it makes you choose an avatar that looks nothing like your player did (it's a feature that's been in FIFA for years now but I've never played for long enough to test it out)!

I think the value going up despite not playing for a season is because the value goes up (or down) depending on age, but not the number of games. You get more value as you approach the "perfect age" for the position you play, from personal experience, but a lack of games doesn't change your value (only bad games).

I agree with the "local side" stuff - I was only saying yesterday, in a different thread, that This is Football let you start off playing for a school team, which became a Sunday League team, which you could try to make into a professional league team. There was something magical about playing on a schoolyard, and then a park, and then an actual stadium. No other football game has tried to be as deep as that.

Even PES used to make you fight for recognition before your teammates would trust you enough to pass to you, and your assistant manager would tell you what was expected of you pre-game. We've lost all that. The PES control-a-single-player experience is pretty rubbish this year (although you can complain about being played out of position). The FIFA one is pretty good, so far. Repetitive but somehow exciting. I just wish the players didn't always do what I ask like I'm a God.
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Had tons of fun playing that mode,restarted one a few weeks ago on FIFA 16, don't do much training so my player doesn't sky rocket in ratings.
Haven't played it in a while though,started at Pompey.
Yeah I used your way on both 15 and 16 when they arrived, 10-15 seasons as a player,then manager.
Have fun Chris
 
For those that have both games... A buddy of mine is willing to sell me his copy of fifa for cheap. I dont do the "one game is good then the other game must be sh*t!". Enjoying my time with PES this year (hated it last year), right now playing a ML and a Season. I enjoyed FIFA 16 a lot too (Im actually happy that im hearing that both games are fun this year).

How has fifa been playing with sliders lately? Is it realistic (again, im having a good time with PES and have no problem owning both games).
 
So seeing as I like playing football games and have paid for FIFA17 and actually think it is quite playable I stick it on tonight for a couple of hours...

I am not usually one for hyperbole but FIFA17 is up there as one of the least realistic football games ever created. It is up there with Sensible Soccer if we want to make a comparison, and of course I am not talking about pace, nor am I claiming it is an "arcade" game. Seriously, fuck all that arcade/sim talk shite.

No, FIFA is one of the least realistic football games (to play) because it is an over-engineered mess of a product out on the pitch. It is a game that truly now suffers from feature creep in the extreme. It is a game that is physics, animation (both all over the shop, by the way) and broadcast simulator first, gameplay and designed in control to try replicate actual football, from something as basic as having a ball at your feet, second. It might actually be third, because we have to remember the glorified sticker collecting game that is Ultimate Team too.

It feels like a game designed by folks who have never kicked a ball in their lives, nevermind slowly walk with one at their feet. If they have, then it must have been one of the most difficult, traumatic experiences of their lives, such is their interpretation of how ball control works. I am flabbergasted at just how complex they appear to believe it all is.

It looks like 22 football players out there on that lovely turf, but they control like boats and have the reactions of sloths. It's laughable just how lacking in athleticism and speed of thought players are. Nothing at all screams professional football player when I have them under control, at all, unless I start to perform finger dances on the controller. There is very little in the way of contextual movements that are not skills, but incredibly natural touches of control regards the players the game is trying to represent. Jesus! Football is fucking simple EA! Ball control is so fucking simple EA! Map your controls to replicate that basic simplicity in movement and control first, then build from there.

Inevitably there will be the counterpoint by someone or other who suggests "Yeah, but it is more SIMULATION!"...

BALLS IT IS! And if you do honestly think that then I am sorry football is proving such a bloody chore for you to play in real life. Honestly, the sport is a lot of fun when you don't think over every move and you have complete awareness of your physical ability and skill, that it is instinctive in nature. Finger dancing on a controller and doing multiple combos and memorising dribble speeds, no matter how good you get at it, simply doesn't replicate that raw simplicity of the sport itself, nor will it ever mirror the instincts and execution of a real player. PES doesn't get it spot on either, but it does it sooooo much better than FIFA does.

I've said this so many times but do you honestly think Lionel Messi or even fucking Stuart Bannigan think in "dribble speeds" and "stances"? Aye, okay then.

I say all that above as someone who was legitimately good at the sport (I'm 41 now, and my pace has left me but my touch hasn't) but that is no boast, as I grew in a time and in an environment where every third dude you came across in the street was good at football. It was all just luck and other diversions after that for us all.

I'm not done with FIFA yet, as I do think there is videogame fun to be had with it, but a replication of football at its most simple, beautiful level? No, not in the slightest.

PS - "videogame fun" does not mean "arcade fun"
 
I've said it before, but:

FIFA = better positioning

PES = better ball physics and physics in general

Both have their faults, and both have their gamebreakers, relative to who is at the controls. When I see the CPU in PES instant retreat the second they lose the ball, I can't help but shut it off. That's also not realistic, and it's definitely not sim.

FIFA has been littered with bugs such as bursting throughout an entire midfield. It has wonky physics and the players sprinting looks like there is a third leg growing through the animation.

Neither game is a perfect representation.
 
el niche said:
For those that have both games... A buddy of mine is willing to sell me his copy of fifa for cheap. I dont do the "one game is good then the other game must be sh*t!". Enjoying my time with PES this year (hated it last year), right now playing a ML and a Season. I enjoyed FIFA 16 a lot too (Im actually happy that im hearing that both games are fun this year).

How has fifa been playing with sliders lately? Is it realistic (again, im having a good time with PES and have no problem owning both games).
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ask him does he want to swap for pes ..I'll trade or £30
 
curdstar said:
one of the least realistic football games ever... an over-engineered mess... I am flabbergasted... BALLS IT IS! And if you do honestly think that then I am sorry football is proving such a bloody chore for you to play in real life. (I'm 41 now, and my pace has left me but my touch... Jesus! Football is fucking simple... so fucking simple...

PS - "videogame fun" does not mean "arcade fun"
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61 is the "I'm just here to relax and have fun" age. And what fun means exactly, is different for everyone. I was a game-editing nerd back in the early 90s, working on games like Links and Hardball. Every player and team had to be statistically perfect, and the game play tweaked to be a perfect replica of the sport. That was my version of fun back then.

Times change. I did something crazy this year with FIFA 17. I - not sure if I dare share this! - lowered the difficulty and cranked up the speed and accel sliders (CPU with a 10 point advantage - try it). No more pokey snore-inducing game play, now players sprint and run with purpose just like real footballers. I honestly haven't had this much pure joy (and excitement) playing a sports video game since NFL 2K4. Is it simulation or arcade? Who cares about labels when FUN IT IS!
 
After playing a lot of both Penis and FIFA last few weeks I am glad we have two very good football games out there.

Both have faults but both are a million miles ahead of where they were 10 years ago.
 
Final Pass said:
Both have faults but both are a million miles ahead of where they were 10 years ago.
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Funny you say that, it reminded me of PES 2008, another game I had tons of fun with. It was my first PES game. I played with the locked player cam, maybe touched the ball 10 times all game. Nothing in video sports come close to the excitement of scoring a goal in that mode lol. For me it's not about progression so much as what a particular game does well. I still play Tiger Woods 08 on the PC for example because it does so much so well, better than any golf game in the last 8 years.
 
angus said:
Funny you say that, it reminded me of PES 2008, another game I had tons of fun with. It was my first PES game. I played with the locked player cam, maybe touched the ball 10 times all game. Nothing in video sports come close to the excitement of scoring a goal in that mode lol. For me it's not about progression so much as what a particular game does well. I still play Tiger Woods 08 on the PC for example because it does so much so well, better than any golf game in the last 8 years.
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I hated Penis 08. In fact, it was because of that game that I started FIFA and went right off the Penis series.

Konami definitely have the game moving in the right direction again though.
 
Spent all morning on FIFA and then put PES back on.

I am sorry but PES poos all over FIFA gameplay wise. It really is that simple.

I always come away from FIFA with a headache.
 
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