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FIFA/FC vs PES/eFootball

angus said:
61 is the "I'm just here to relax and have fun" age. And what fun means exactly, is different for everyone. I was a game-editing nerd back in the early 90s, working on games like Links and Hardball. Every player and team had to be statistically perfect, and the game play tweaked to be a perfect replica of the sport. That was my version of fun back then.

Times change. I did something crazy this year with FIFA 17. I - not sure if I dare share this! - lowered the difficulty and cranked up the speed and accel sliders (CPU with a 10 point advantage - try it). No more pokey snore-inducing game play, now players sprint and run with purpose just like real footballers. I honestly haven't had this much pure joy (and excitement) playing a sports video game since NFL 2K4. Is it simulation or arcade? Who cares about labels when FUN IT IS!
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Hardball, eh? I remember that game. I was terrible at it. Do you remember the American Football game called 4th & Inches, and no I'm not talking about Final Pass's penis! The running back in the blue team was called Rilly Quick and I am sure it was a wide receiver who was called R U Thayer. Brilliant game.
 
4th and inches ..that's showing your age :)
curdstar said:
Hardball, eh? I remember that game. I was terrible at it. Do you remember the American Football game called 4th & Inches, and no I'm not talking about Final Pass's penis! The running back in the blue team was called Rilly Quick and I am sure it was a wide receiver who was called R U Thayer. Brilliant game.
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..class game
 
Matt10 said:
I've said it before, but:



PES = better ball physics and physics in general

When I see the CPU in PES instant retreat the second they lose the ball, I can't help but shut it off. That's also not realistic, and it's definitely not sim.
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It's not any better when the cpu gets possession - just instant all out attack. And it's the same 2 or 3 attacking moves over and over that all the cpu teams use. Becomes very repetitive and boring very quickly. And of course, the cpu is immune to fatigue.

PES definitely feels more natural than FIFA when you're controlling players but the way the CPU plays in PES ruins the game. I can barely last until half time in a PES match without getting fed up with the AI robots and turning off.

Konami should get in some new blood with new ideas about how to program AI. The game has great potential that isn't being realised.
 
AI robots using the same attacking move again:



So robotic. I've seen them score that goal 967 times*

Nah, mate. And that example is not an exception either in my experience. Totally agree there is still a need for more variety, but to say the same 2 or 3 (or even 7 or 8, 9 or 10) moves is all the AI has in its locker is a tad hyperbolic.

*have I fuck
 
curdstar said:
AI robots using the same attacking move again:



So robotic. I've seen them score that goal 967 times*

Nah, mate. And that example is not an exception either in my experience. Totally agree there is still a need for more variety, but to say the same 2 or 3 (or even 7 or 8, 9 or 10) moves is all the AI has in its locker is a tad hyperbolic.

*have I fuck
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Nice goal.its not about the types of goals scored. It's about the fundamentals of football attacking. They are freaking out with the ball. Their attack intensity rarely goes to a more calmer approach. Possession football in PES is basically multiple passes forward, to whatever attacking style their switched on to.
 
Matt10 said:
Nice goal.its not about the types of goals scored. It's about the fundamentals of football attacking. They are freaking out with the ball. Their attack intensity rarely goes to a more calmer approach. Possession football in PES is basically multiple passes forward, to whatever attacking style their switched on to.
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The default out-of-the-box tactics do lean the way you suggest, but I played an edited tactics Barca last night and they passed the ball backwards frequently. They built attacks more patiently but I do think there needs to be a slight AI tweak in their decision making when playing like that. Best games I have played in Versus (not ML, which is a different kettle of fish for me) was against a custom tactics Juve last week. Direct at 0-0, but not charging forward like maniacs, and when they took the lead they sprayed the ball about for simulated minutes.

I actually agree with your observations regards PES this year on the positioning/formation adherence side of things, but... ach, in the midst of a match in Serie B those things just fade into the background. I am okay with that, and I am certainly not disrespecting your findings. I actually take some encouragement from thos findings because that could be an easy fix with a little tweaking. I am always a tad reticent to say "easy fix" as there is always the possibility of a negative trickle down when something gets changed. Any plans for gameplay patches will prove interesting for PES, but I remain hopeful they will make a superb (not perfect) football game even better.

PS - I tried that accel/sprint boost in FIFA angus was talking about, using your slider settings as the base for other slider settings. It has improved the game for me, but realise that everyone has different tastes there when it comes to sliders in FIFA. Honestly? I am a bit concerned for the single player FIFA experience moving forward. My concern is they won't do enough to AI and just hope the features they bring in stick and work some wonders. I just don't think EA are that interested in single player beyond building a detailed career mode and having all the glitz in place. I hope to be proved wrong there, though. PES just seems in better shape moving forward for me.
 
I just can't get on with FIFA anymore, not after getting used to Penis again.

FIFA 17 looks gorgeous but it's so mind numbing both online and offline.

All the sliders in the world won't make a big enough difference to the core gameplay. Thank god Konami sorted their s**t out because there is no way I could stomach FIFA 17 for a year. It's brainless. I can weave the same move over and over again yet can't play the way I WANT to play. PES allows me to play how I want. Sometimes I fancy being direct, sometimes I want to play a posesssion game and sometimes I want to press the hell out of the opposition. It allows me to play how I want.

FIFA only allows me to play how the game wants.

I am watching Marseille on BT Sport now and it's amazing how Konami have got it bang on this year. The way it flows, the pace of it, the way the teams play on defensive and offensive transitions.

FIFA 17 just isn't organic. It's a game aimed at young adults who want to bang in crosses and score from them 9 times out of 10.

I have been stuck in a FIFA rut(ter) for years because PES has been so crap. But it's amazing how used to slogging it in that pile of unrealistic crap I have been accepting as the go-to football game.

EA won't get another penny from me - not that they'll miss it - until huge improvements and changes are made.
 
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Ok this may put some people to sleep, it may be an interesting read who knows. My take on all of this with FIFA.

The game to me feels Dumbed down and Fast Paced. As if EA are trying to entice the FUT Kids into playing all the other modes. What it means is grumpy old men like some of us here that like slower paced more realistic games won't like it but the main demographic that buy FIFA every release without fail will still LOVE that fast paced Ronaldo jerking off action.

What I think EA SHOULD do is have FUT running on a more ARCADEY style setting so that it will appease the casuals that enjoy FUT as well as the kids. BUT crucially they should have a Simulation setting for those of us grumpy old gits that prefer our slower paced more tactical football. The Simulation setting will affect the game in the following ways:

A) The pace of the game will be realistic (GO AND WATCH SOME FUCKING FOOTBALL MATCHES EA FOR CHRIST SAKE!)
B) The physics of the game will be realistic too instead of dumbed down like they feel like in 17
C) The AI will know its players strengths and weaknesses. Plus it will know the style that the team it is playing as and will actually play like that.... It will also do its upmost with the XI and Subs to cope with whatever you do when you play. NOT just every team plays the same fucking way regardless of whether they are Barcelona or New York City.

I felt like this with FIFA 15. It felt too fast and frantic, defending was out of the window as if EA forgot that Defending is as important in Football as Attacking is and the game was BADLY balanced... e.g. there was an over emphasis on attacking play as well as Strength and Pace. How many of us here played FIFA 15 online and dreaded seeing some kid play as Real Madrid and choose use Ronaldo and Bale sprint,sprint,sprint, trick, sprint, through ball GOAL....? Or Out to the wing with Bale, Sprint, Sprint, Sprint, Cross, Header by Ronaldo... GOAL....? It used to PISS me the fuck off!

FIFA doesn't reward you for playing good football.... In fact it shits in your face when you come up against some kid who thinks football is all about his star players.... FIFA 17 reminds me of 15 in so many ways and not good ones.

PES for me plays a FAR better game in general. In Superstar difficulty in Exhibition matches it plays fantastic as Final Pass has said (before talking about PEniSes?). BUT PES still does have annoying little niggles that needs sorting (that fucking stumble forward animation needs to DO ONE!). The big problem I have with PES is that Superstar AI in Master League mode is like playing a game of Frustration Nation.... it pisses me off BIG STYLE to get cheated out of 3 points and sometimes even 1 point when the CPU scores a last minute cheap goal that you can do nothing about.

Oh and forget playing PES online. Its like NBA Jam... end to end.. back and fourth.. a GOAL Fest at times! Not really what I want to be playing. If I want to play NBA Jam? Ill play the On Fire Edition on Xbox 360!

Those are my final words on FIFA v PES. See you next season!
 
After playing both I have come to the conclusion I don't really like either...again.
I'll still play but I still think these games come up short and have done for a while.
How did they get it so right 10 years ago but not now?
 
TroyDeeneyScoredAPenal! said:
PES for me plays a FAR better game in general. In Superstar difficulty in Exhibition matches it plays fantastic as Final Pass has said (before talking about PEniSes?). BUT PES still does have annoying little niggles that needs sorting (that fucking stumble forward animation needs to DO ONE!). The big problem I have with PES is that Superstar AI in Master League mode is like playing a game of Frustration Nation.... it pisses me off BIG STYLE to get cheated out of 3 points and sometimes even 1 point when the CPU scores a last minute cheap goal that you can do nothing about.

Oh and forget playing PES online. Its like NBA Jam... end to end.. back and fourth.. a GOAL Fest at times! Not really what I want to be playing. If I want to play NBA Jam? Ill play the On Fire Edition on Xbox 360!

Those are my final words on FIFA v PES. See you next season!
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There is an incredibly ironic truth on those paragraphs of conclusion because essentially what usually being bashed about fifa is exactly there on pes by admission from pes fanboys.

The real gameplay on these games lies on what people can do online, seeing how people often admit that pes online is terrible in the core should tell us the truth, whatever offline pleasantries you enjoyed against the cpu are all faked, scripted and staged by artificial limitation that is called AI, it just like battlefield or cod games that have single player components that are so inherently different than what the game is actually about, a brainless mp shooter.
 
I bought both games this year. (Pc)
First i bought PES cause im convinced that it is the best PES ever.
Then i gave a real try on FIFA 17. My conclusions:

FIFA wins at:
-Ball physics. The ball rolls, spins, retains its spin, almost perfect. I would like it to have more weight but compared to PES is supreme. PES ball has right feel on weight, but its very basic on spin, and rolling physics are not convincing.

-Player animations. Tons of animations for every situation. Passing, shooting, controlling the ball. Pes is very basic in this sector, although it has progress this year.

-Footplanting. In FIFA dribbling with a player feels very natural. Especially in turns and stops. Feet are placed on the pitch right, adding to the realism. In PES there is TOO MUCH glide, ice skating, especially with top players. No inertia, poor footplanting

-Shooting. In FIFA, tons of shooting animations combined with advanced ball physics,produce a realistic variety and unpredictability. In PES this year shooting has more error compared to last year's PES, but still lacks in variety due to shortage in animations and basic ball physics.

-Graphics. Ok i don't have to expain much here. Every stadium in FIFA with different conditions and time, is a different experience, with almost perfect photorealism. Turf color, shading, ambient occlusion are spot on. PES on PC is very plain and feels old gen.

-Net - kits - hair physics. Very improved this year in FIFA. PES had awesome kit physics in 2014, but since then the plysics are gone. Also for nets, last PES with good net physics was 2011, since then it become generic and rigid.

-Goal scoring feeling. Shooting animations, ball physics+net physics combined is the reason. In PES, there is a slow motion feeling, especially inside the box and penaltied where everything looks like slow motion

-Sound coverage. Commentary and crowd in FIFA are top. Pes has better ball sound though.

-Authenticity/Licences. Nothing to explain.




PES Wins at:

-Players feel more "heavy" on the pitch. Althougth ice skating, gliding and bad footplanting kills it.

-Animation smoothness. In PES animations feel more natural and better stitched together. FIFA has issues in stitching animations giving a strange "trembling" feeling like puppets.

-Collisions. Feels more natural, and the balancing animations give an extra immersion point.

-Lobbed passing. Feels better in PES and more consistent.

-Skills/tricks mechanics. I prefer the skill system in PES because using two sticks makes it more difficult and thus rewarding. Also animations in skills/trick are better and smoother.


FIFA and PES are equal regarding:

-Passing. In FIFA passes feel more natural due to advanced ball physics and player control. But there is an unexplained inconsistency, especially in lobbed passes. In PES passing is very consistend, but they are to linear and straightforward.

-Overall gameplay. FIFA tries to be more sim, whereas PES provides more fun and randomness. It's a matter of taste.

-Goalkeepers:Both very good and consistend, but in FIFA are too quick in reactions, in the contrary of PES where they diving in slowmotion.

FINAL WORDS

I prefer FIFA for the reasons explained above. Its looks more next gen game almost in every aspect. But PES this year is the best PES since PES5/6 providing fun and unpredictability.
 
napo_rz said:
There is an incredibly ironic truth on those paragraphs of conclusion because essentially what usually being bashed about fifa is exactly there on pes by admission from pes fanboys.

The real gameplay on these games lies on what people can do online, seeing how people often admit that pes online is terrible in the core should tell us the truth, whatever offline pleasantries you enjoyed against the cpu are all faked, scripted and staged by artificial limitation that is called AI, it just like battlefield or cod games that have single player components that are so inherently different than what the game is actually about, a brainless mp shooter.
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I am not a fanboy of either game BTW.
 
If anyone over the age of 15 is a fanboy of anything then they need their heads testing :LOL:

When I was a kid, I always bought Spectrum over C64, Nintendo over SEGA (or rather my parents did for me) but I've never affiliated myself with a console or specific game/brand.

Fanboys are weird.
 
Just in case we have an outbreak of fanboy trolling crap as napo_rz used the term disparagingly,

Dont do it.
 
I have fifa 17 demo....I dont know I prefer pes version of the game it just feels fun and feel like I can score anytype of goal and play any way possible...Fifa you have to play one certain way to score which made me very mad at it

that being said fifa graphics are IMMENSE and I hope pes focuses on graphics next year
 
You see I disagree. I scored a few stunners on FIFA the full game before I sold it. You don't have to play a "Certain" way but the game was too lifeless and dull for me to carry on with it. Hopefully it found a good home after going into CEX and someone else is enjoying it.
 
Well I sold my Fifa today - it looks amazing and I cant knock presentation but Evo (after adding Klashmans tactics) has the game play (for me) this year. I just get no joy from Fifa, never really have and it feels like a bit of chore to play.
Yes in PES there are things that still annoy me and always will (like keepers for example - much improved but still see some ISS animations happening when it comes to diving for high shots) and Konami need to do some serious presentation, menu and font upgrades for PES18 but the game play is key.
 
P34SEMM said:
Well I sold my Fifa today - it looks amazing and I cant knock presentation but Evo (after adding Klashmans tactics) has the game play (for me) this year. I just get no joy from Fifa, never really have and it feels like a bit of chore to play.
Yes in PES there are things that still annoy me and always will (like keepers for example - much improved but still see some ISS animations happening when it comes to diving for high shots) and Konami need to do some serious presentation, menu and font upgrades for PES18 but the game play is key.
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They have to reduce the Scripting for one thing in PES 18. I still see far too many CPU 90th minute equalisers or winners against me in Master League on Superstar Difficulty.... Too many to be a coincidence.
 
Just watched a FIFA 17, no fouls?
And the running motion is the most hilarious I've ever seen,stunning graphics and presentation being a plus.
But no fouls?
And it didn't look intense,the video I saw was Liverpool vs UTD,should be a bit feisty shouldn't it?
I'm glad,despise some people's reaction tw PES,that it has the key elements of the game,a good solid gameplay with some minor adjustments,and playing a derby feels like it should,hard,nasty and plenty of fouls in it.
 
Just played a game because I thought I would give it another chance. I was Spurs v Arsenal, it went to extra time and Arsenal won 0-2. Didn't enjoy the match at all, I couldn't work out why until I noticed that the CPU very rarely plays the ball back. It's just forward or side ways. Does anybody else notice this?
 
hozes said:
so, what's there?
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The guy won the league with 15 points to space using Middlesbrough in his 3rd season on legendary.

He was bored so he decided to do a 1 center back formation with every other player an attacking winger or striker.

He won the game 1-0, and the AI had no shots on goal whatsoever on goal.

The last game h flipped the formation so he put a 5'7 winger in goal, his strikers and wingers as a back 4 and put two goalkeepers upfront.

got a 1-1 draw.

He did the same thing last year btw:

 
P34SEMM said:
Well I sold my Fifa today - it looks amazing and I cant knock presentation but Evo (after adding Klashmans tactics) has the game play (for me) this year. I just get no joy from Fifa, never really have and it feels like a bit of chore to play.
Yes in PES there are things that still annoy me and always will (like keepers for example - much improved but still see some ISS animations happening when it comes to diving for high shots) and Konami need to do some serious presentation, menu and font upgrades for PES18 but the game play is key.
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do you have the link to Klashmans tactics?
 
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