FIFA 23 Discussion Thread (Console Versions)

Chris Davies said:
Also, this stuff is important to me. I don't know how anyone accepts FIFA's Hypermotion system as "progress" - or indeed how EA can defend it, even from a "playability" point of view. And Hypermotion will be with us forever.

It's not even about how silly it looks - it's how fast, impossibly responsive and unrealistic it feels. It boggles my mind that anyone can live with this - the days of Sensi Soccer are supposed to be over.

Click to expand...
I don’t know another sports game where the basic mechanics are so laughable. Even games with 5% of EA’s budget get the basics rIght.
 
Many of the game's problems can be ignored. But foot-planting problem is really an endless torment. This problem has questioned all the strengths of the game and caused serious damage to the visual gameplay of the game from the viewpoint of the gameplay camera. Ice skating problems! Sinking the ball in the foot! And in the same way, poor quality foot to ball animations have really dealt a fatal blow to the overall image.

Watch the video! It's a real shame that this is a 9th generation sports football game. See the player's first touch :​
  • You mess up the anatomy of the player's body!​
  • The player's knee twists!​
  • The animation is messed up!​

View attachment Film - PROJECT - 2022_12_31_16_33_47_(1).mp4

With the importance of online games in the game industry, the design and development of football games underwent great changes. Due to the command from the controller to the in-game animations and creating a fast response time, many parts fell victim to this issue. Animations and physics are both victims of online game design and development.

Animators must pay attention to two basic principles when adding any animation to the game. Physics, gravity, and inertia of any animation on the surface on which the animation moves. The development, design, and integration of such work requires a suitable graphics engine, a powerful physics engine, and professional designers.The coordination of these three principles makes the problems of foot planting in the game to the lowest level and we see stable animations in the game.

View attachment FIFA 23_20230114210109(1).mp4

Response time is one of the biggest problems in designing animations. This problem and challenge is increased when the development team has to divide the way of transferring data from the controller to the animation for the offline and online part.

Likewise, each animation has its own response time, and if the response time in some animations is faster, that animation will be pushed towards a fast and unnatural animation. Here, the development team must decide whether to design a natural and realistic animation or an arcade animation for competitive online games.

View attachment FIFA 23_20230208023154.mp4

In simple words, developers design three types of animation based on the style and context of the game while developing their games:
​
  • Realistic animations (simulator )​
  • Arcade animations that are something between a realistic and semi-realistic animation​
  • Competitive animations: which are designed for online games, and these types of animations are designed very artificially, and the response time of the controller to the animation is designed as fast as possible, and for the developer to be natural and realistic. It doesn't matter and the physics is also sacrificed and only the fast response time to run the animation as quickly as possible is important for the developer and is a priority.​

Precisely, the foot-to-ball animations in FIFA in recent years have been completely designed in a competitive manner, and by executing the controller's command, the foot-to-ball animation is executed quickly and was realistic, and the laws of physics are easily victimized by the fast response time. . This is the reason that during the gameplay, the whole game looks very artificial and ugly from the view of the camera.

View attachment FIFA 23_20230114205422(1).mp4

Finally, the more natural the animations are, the slower the response time of the corresponding animation will be. It takes a few seconds for the player to suddenly turn and move backwards. And here is the animation that is being designed. It is important. Does this rotation have to be very fast? Or similar to reality? It's up to the development team to decide whether to design a competitive, arcade, fast-paced animation, or one that resembles the movements of a human in the real world. or something in between.

One of the things that will reduce the footplanting problem is the physics and weight calculations in every animation that is added to the game. The animation designer should calculate the appropriate physics and weight of the animation based on the designed animation with the ground surface to reduce foot planting problems.

View attachment FIFA 23_20230208022710.mp4

One of the best sports games that has managed to strike a perfect balance of creating realistic animations with excellent response time is the NBA 2K series. The development team with the exclusive Eco-Motion engine have been able to create realistic animations with excellent response time to satisfy both offline and online gamers.

View attachment NBA 2K23 PS5 JORDAN CHALLENGE OFFICIAL GAMEPLAY (FULL GAMES) - Segment1(00_04_59.299-00_05_11....mp4

Is there anyone here who is close to the FIFA development team, to send this feedback to them to fix these problems ??!!

I have no hope for EAFC 24. I know that the priority of the development team is the open online gamers, especially the ultimate section, and the development team listens to their feedback first, to those of us who are fans of simulation football games!

Unfortunately, this was the bitter fate of football games for us fans of simulation games. The PES series that was killed forever by Konami and buried by their own hands. This is the FIFA game that we have to endure with all its good and bad. There is no other way. Complete deadlock!​
 
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Chris Davies said:
Also, this stuff is important to me. I don't know how anyone accepts FIFA's Hypermotion system as "progress" - or indeed how EA can defend it, even from a "playability" point of view. And Hypermotion will be with us forever.

It's not even about how silly it looks - it's how fast, impossibly responsive and unrealistic it feels. It boggles my mind that anyone can live with this - the days of Sensi Soccer are supposed to be over.

Click to expand...
I'd argue the Fifa 23 clip is slightly sped up, judging by the defending player in the background. Not to say this type of weird quick dribbling isn't in the game ofc.

I feel I am liking this Fifa because I am lucky to not be able to see those deep things that the likes of yourself and TTB see. I say the same for music. I can enjoy it for how it sounds to my ears, but an audiophile who focuses on composition, tone, highs and mids etc., all that knowledge ruins the experience for them I'd guess. I guess it's a literal meaning of "ignorance is bliss"
 
Chris Davies said:
Hard disagree. The beauty of opinions...

I've been playing it this week, quite a lot. I'm desperate to love it. Desperate. And I nearly do.

In the Career Mode, some of the training drills feel really, really good. I'm almost convinced they use different rules and/or physics, especially the ones that force a version of the "trainer" graphics on, which shows you the path of your passes/shots.

Some of the things I've seen in those drills are incredible. The weight of passes, of shots, the variety of outcomes, the lack of magic magnets and ball-through-chest moments. Keepers tipping the ball onto the crossbar and flapping to get it away... Beautiful.

But then I play a match and no matter what I do, the AI just hits three passes from defence to attack over and over, and it's so PAINFULLY boring. IMO. (Almost as boring as this post if you happen to like the game, granted.)

If the AI (for both teams) just defended like it knew what defending was, if the AI JUST marked properly and covered passing lanes so either side had to actually think about anything they did... It'd be amazing.

As it is, the "marking" slider only seems to affect the chosen 1v1 player and nobody else, meaning braindead mannequins everywhere else - and the only thing that keeps the score down for me is the shot error (last game, 12 shots to 22 in a five-minute-halves match). Really horrible and unsalvageable experience. In my experience. (Just saying, for discussion purposes. No trolling. Hence why I'm explaining myself...)
Click to expand...
Maybe its because im a simple man :D

I don't play career mode, its quick 5 minute half matches with random teams that take my fancy. No slider tweaks, just basically a highlights package. Its the most Fifa ive played in years.

Definitely, for someone looking for a slower, sim based approach I totally get it, but I gave that ghost up years ago. What makes the game for me is the SHEER VARIETY. Ive got hundreds of goals and action clips saved on my Series X. The keepers are magnificent, the variety of shots and passes is off the scale, never scored or saw the same goal twice. Then theres the hyper motion - its not perfect but its very, very good, lots of animations im still seeing that ive never seen, its a feat of design for a football game.

Then the pitches, stadiums, crowds (which are superb, they Mexican wave, duck when balls fly into them, react to everything on pitch even offside goals.

Never thought Fifa would deliver for me, and their final iteration too. Hopefully they don't patch the goodness out of it before they stop supporting it because I think ill be playing this for years.
 
Datiss77 said:
Many of the game's problems can be ignored. But foot-planting problem is really an endless torment. This problem has questioned all the strengths of the game and caused serious damage to the visual gameplay of the game from the viewpoint of the gameplay camera. Ice skating problems! Sinking the ball in the foot! And in the same way, poor quality foot to ball animations have really dealt a fatal blow to the overall image.

Watch the video! It's a real shame that this is a 9th generation sports football game. See the player's first touch :
  • You mess up the anatomy of the player's body!
  • The player's knee twists!
  • The animation is messed up!

View attachment 201572

With the importance of online games in the game industry, the design and development of football games underwent great changes. Due to the command from the controller to the in-game animations and creating a fast response time, many parts fell victim to this issue. Animations and physics are both victims of online game design and development.

Animators must pay attention to two basic principles when adding any animation to the game. Physics, gravity, and inertia of any animation on the surface on which the animation moves. The development, design, and integration of such work requires a suitable graphics engine, a powerful physics engine, and professional designers.The coordination of these three principles makes the problems of foot planting in the game to the lowest level and we see stable animations in the game.

View attachment 201573

Response time is one of the biggest problems in designing animations. This problem and challenge is increased when the development team has to divide the way of transferring data from the controller to the animation for the offline and online part.

Likewise, each animation has its own response time, and if the response time in some animations is faster, that animation will be pushed towards a fast and unnatural animation. Here, the development team must decide whether to design a natural and realistic animation or an arcade animation for competitive online games.

View attachment 201576

In simple words, developers design three types of animation based on the style and context of the game while developing their games:

  • Realistic animations (simulator )
  • Arcade animations that are something between a realistic and semi-realistic animation
  • Competitive animations: which are designed for online games, and these types of animations are designed very artificially, and the response time of the controller to the animation is designed as fast as possible, and for the developer to be natural and realistic. It doesn't matter and the physics is also sacrificed and only the fast response time to run the animation as quickly as possible is important for the developer and is a priority.

Precisely, the foot-to-ball animations in FIFA in recent years have been completely designed in a competitive manner, and by executing the controller's command, the foot-to-ball animation is executed quickly and was realistic, and the laws of physics are easily victimized by the fast response time. . This is the reason that during the gameplay, the whole game looks very artificial and ugly from the view of the camera.

View attachment 201571

Finally, the more natural the animations are, the slower the response time of the corresponding animation will be. It takes a few seconds for the player to suddenly turn and move backwards. And here is the animation that is being designed. It is important. Does this rotation have to be very fast? Or similar to reality? It's up to the development team to decide whether to design a competitive, arcade, fast-paced animation, or one that resembles the movements of a human in the real world. or something in between.

One of the things that will reduce the footplanting problem is the physics and weight calculations in every animation that is added to the game. The animation designer should calculate the appropriate physics and weight of the animation based on the designed animation with the ground surface to reduce foot planting problems.

View attachment 201575

One of the best sports games that has managed to strike a perfect balance of creating realistic animations with excellent response time is the NBA 2K series. The development team with the exclusive Eco-Motion engine have been able to create realistic animations with excellent response time to satisfy both offline and online gamers.

View attachment 201577

Is there anyone here who is close to the FIFA development team, to send this feedback to them to fix these problems ??!!

I have no hope for EAFC 24. I know that the priority of the development team is the open online gamers, especially the ultimate section, and the development team listens to their feedback first, to those of us who are fans of simulation football games!

Unfortunately, this was the bitter fate of football games for us fans of simulation games. The PES series that was killed forever by Konami and buried by their own hands. This is the FIFA game that we have to endure with all its good and bad. There is no other way. Complete deadlock!
Click to expand...

Great, detailed post.

The animations and motion capture need to be reworked. I think everyone knows that. Even with multiple exposures from top Pro/FUT streamers, these animations haven't changed. I don't think they will change. Think about what type of investment EA has into Pro and FUT gamers. They don't like their game, filled with all the exploits, being messed with too much. Responsiveness and functionality are top priorities, and animations are really not - unless it directly affects them such as a keeper moving out of the way of a shot, etc.

From a simulation gamer's perspective, I just hope that whatever functionality they change doesn't affect the gameplay. I've chosen to be realistic about what we're given here. No one is changing the animations, no one is even thinking about it. There's no point in me dwelling about them. No point in exposing it - it serves no purpose. Not saying you did, but people like to blame developers for these type of things. Is anyone here a developer that has any type of autonomy over what you get to produce? I'm a software tester, do you think I get to pick and choose what I want to test? Nope.

If it doesn't serve a business need, and FUT + Pro are a monumental need, then there's no chance of these animations changing. Maybe we can hope that hypermotion 3.0 (made it up) can be a vehicle to introduce some new animations and maybe give them the opportunity to "fine-tune" animations - then call it a new feature.

For me, it's about the functionality of the game, and how gameplay customization can aid the parts that fall short. If EA decide they want to rework the animation and motion capture tomorrow, and we get 2K level motion, but then those central midfielders behave like they did in FIFA 21 - then what was the point?
 
shilts said:
I just think it’s so ironic that the whole world is talking about advances in AI (everybody heard about ChatGTP in the news lately?) and here we’ve got EA who are proudly keeping their game dumb AF 🤣
Click to expand...
Dumb AF AI generates 100s of millions of pounds. The online crowd who are the ones paying for the game and the only ones spending additional money, and a fucking lot of it, dictate the path. There is no or very little financial incentive for EA to make a "simulator" nor does it make any business sense pissing off the people who generate them the most income. If 60% of online player stopped playing and stopped spending and demanded on social media for a more realistic game 80-90% of it would be fixed and implemented in the next patch
 
Datiss77 said:
Many of the game's problems can be ignored. But foot-planting problem is really an endless torment. This problem has questioned all the strengths of the game and caused serious damage to the visual gameplay of the game from the viewpoint of the gameplay camera. Ice skating problems! Sinking the ball in the foot! And in the same way, poor quality foot to ball animations have really dealt a fatal blow to the overall image.

Watch the video! It's a real shame that this is a 9th generation sports football game. See the player's first touch :
  • You mess up the anatomy of the player's body!
  • The player's knee twists!
  • The animation is messed up!

View attachment 201572

With the importance of online games in the game industry, the design and development of football games underwent great changes. Due to the command from the controller to the in-game animations and creating a fast response time, many parts fell victim to this issue. Animations and physics are both victims of online game design and development.

Animators must pay attention to two basic principles when adding any animation to the game. Physics, gravity, and inertia of any animation on the surface on which the animation moves. The development, design, and integration of such work requires a suitable graphics engine, a powerful physics engine, and professional designers.The coordination of these three principles makes the problems of foot planting in the game to the lowest level and we see stable animations in the game.

View attachment 201573

Response time is one of the biggest problems in designing animations. This problem and challenge is increased when the development team has to divide the way of transferring data from the controller to the animation for the offline and online part.

Likewise, each animation has its own response time, and if the response time in some animations is faster, that animation will be pushed towards a fast and unnatural animation. Here, the development team must decide whether to design a natural and realistic animation or an arcade animation for competitive online games.

View attachment 201576

In simple words, developers design three types of animation based on the style and context of the game while developing their games:

  • Realistic animations (simulator )
  • Arcade animations that are something between a realistic and semi-realistic animation
  • Competitive animations: which are designed for online games, and these types of animations are designed very artificially, and the response time of the controller to the animation is designed as fast as possible, and for the developer to be natural and realistic. It doesn't matter and the physics is also sacrificed and only the fast response time to run the animation as quickly as possible is important for the developer and is a priority.

Precisely, the foot-to-ball animations in FIFA in recent years have been completely designed in a competitive manner, and by executing the controller's command, the foot-to-ball animation is executed quickly and was realistic, and the laws of physics are easily victimized by the fast response time. . This is the reason that during the gameplay, the whole game looks very artificial and ugly from the view of the camera.

View attachment 201571

Finally, the more natural the animations are, the slower the response time of the corresponding animation will be. It takes a few seconds for the player to suddenly turn and move backwards. And here is the animation that is being designed. It is important. Does this rotation have to be very fast? Or similar to reality? It's up to the development team to decide whether to design a competitive, arcade, fast-paced animation, or one that resembles the movements of a human in the real world. or something in between.

One of the things that will reduce the footplanting problem is the physics and weight calculations in every animation that is added to the game. The animation designer should calculate the appropriate physics and weight of the animation based on the designed animation with the ground surface to reduce foot planting problems.

View attachment 201575

One of the best sports games that has managed to strike a perfect balance of creating realistic animations with excellent response time is the NBA 2K series. The development team with the exclusive Eco-Motion engine have been able to create realistic animations with excellent response time to satisfy both offline and online gamers.

View attachment 201577

Is there anyone here who is close to the FIFA development team, to send this feedback to them to fix these problems ??!!

I have no hope for EAFC 24. I know that the priority of the development team is the open online gamers, especially the ultimate section, and the development team listens to their feedback first, to those of us who are fans of simulation football games!

Unfortunately, this was the bitter fate of football games for us fans of simulation games. The PES series that was killed forever by Konami and buried by their own hands. This is the FIFA game that we have to endure with all its good and bad. There is no other way. Complete deadlock!
Click to expand...
Summary: Design choice.

FIFA: Responsive.
eFootball: animations with transition, but loses in responsiveness. EA needs to balance responsiveness with visual motion.
 
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Mathgamer said:
Summary: Design choice.
Click to expand...
For an ordinary game, this is fair enough. If it was a racing game (e.g. Need for Speed) you wouldn't even bother signing up to a forum to say you didn't like it, because you'd just buy one of the wealth of other racing games instead.

With a football game, we have nowhere else to go - and even the upcoming releases, like UFL and Goals, are just clones of what we already have.

That one core design choice - to create instant responsiveness and 1v1 gameplay - has now fully removed all semblance of humanity and all team defensive AI. :(

So here we are, (some) gamers without an option to play the game. But not enough of us to care about.

Sliders would be the saviour if they could truly fix the above, but they can't - they can only "make the best of it", and personally I'd rather play FIFA 16 and miss out on the great new stuff than play a game that doesn't behave like (or even look like) football for the most part.
 
Mathgamer said:
Summary: Design choice.

FIFA: Responsive.
eFootball: animations with transition, but loses in responsiveness. EA needs to balance responsiveness with visual motion.
Click to expand...
I say ok, it's the policy of the development team to balance responsiveness and visual movement.

I'm going to assume that the development team's policy is what you said and I mentioned in my article.

But at least the development team should fix the foot planting problems and design better competitive animations. At least they can do this.

In many scenes, we really feel like we are skating on ice.

FIFA gameplay is good. It has many strengths. But the problems that I mentioned have had a negative impact on the overall structure of the game.

I hope you will send feedback to the development team.

This is a short scene from PES 6 - The animations designed for this game at that time were designed between the animations of a sports simulator and an arcade game. And let's pay attention to this point, hardware and graphic engines, physics engine and motion capture technologies were not as advanced as they are today.

View attachment PESUNITED_OG-1599524020390572033-20221205_013018-vid1 - Segment1(00_01_08.451-00_01_25.468).mp4

The minimum requirement is that if the development team of FIFA even plans to design competition animations, we will not see any more bugs and the ball sinking into the foot and the force planting problem. It is the ninth generation of the game industry. Graphics engines, physics engine and animation technologies have advanced greatly, and the minimum requirement is that the game does not have such basic problems and does not have this much weakness in the Foot movements to the ball.
 
Datiss77 said:
I say ok, it's the policy of the development team to balance responsiveness and visual movement.

I'm going to assume that the development team's policy is what you said and I mentioned in my article.

But at least the development team should fix the foot planting problems and design better competitive animations. At least they can do this.

In many scenes, we really feel like we are skating on ice.

FIFA gameplay is good. It has many strengths. But the problems that I mentioned have had a negative impact on the overall structure of the game.

I hope you will send feedback to the development team.

This is a short scene from PES 6 - The animations designed for this game at that time were designed between the animations of a sports simulator and an arcade game. And let's pay attention to this point, hardware and graphic engines, physics engine and motion capture technologies were not as advanced as they are today.

View attachment 201809

The minimum requirement is that if the development team of FIFA even plans to design competition animations, we will not see any more bugs and the ball sinking into the foot and the force planting problem. It is the ninth generation of the game industry. Graphics engines, physics engine and animation technologies have advanced greatly, and the minimum requirement is that the game does not have such basic problems and does not have this much weakness in the Foot movements to the ball.
Click to expand...
That video also makes the point that more realistic (and less "instant") responsiveness also leads to other bonuses, such as providing more opportunities for physical interactions (and fouls), adding another element to the strategy of the game.

Right now, teammate AI is so passive and attacking play is so hugely overpowered (with their pace and instant dribbling/kicking responsiveness), players barely come into contact with each other.

Hence why EA patched in the AI just randomly tackling you from behind and getting sent off, in order to "fix" how few fouls there are...

...which just shows what little respect they have for offline players. IMO.

Less insta-responsiveness and more realism can only provide more depth to the game.
 
I talk to them about ball conduction, foot planting, more option in the Sliders, domains with more frames in the transition. Power Shot has longer animations, but the game ends up prioritizing the short animations and usually the animation system selects an animation that doesn't make sense with the previous movement.
 
Talking about animation.

ENHANCED ANIMATION GENERATION BASED ON MOTION MATCHING USING LOCAL BONE PHASES


Electronic games are increasingly becoming more realistic due to an increase in available processing resources. This increase in realism may allow for more realistic gameplay experiences. For example, elements that form an in-game world, such as characters, may be more realistically presented. In this example, the elements may be increasingly rendered at higher resolutions, with more detailed textures, with more detailed underlying meshes, and so on. While this added realism may be beneficial to an end-user of an electronic game, it may place a substantial burden on electronic game developers. As an example, electronic game developers may be required to create very rich, and detailed, models of characters. As another example, electronic game designers may be required to create fluid, lifelike, movements of the characters.
With respect to the example of movement, characters may be designed to realistically adjust their arms, legs, and so on, while traversing an in-game world. In this way, the characters may walk, run, jump, and so on, in a lifelike manner. With respect to a sports electronic game, substantial time may be spent ensuring that the characters appear to mimic real-world sports players. For example, electronic game designers may spend substantial time fine-tuning movements of an underlying character model. Movement of a character model may be, at least in part, implemented based on movement of an underlying skeleton. For example, a skeleton may include a multitude of objects (e.g., bones or joints) which may represent a portion of the character model. As an example, a first object may be a finger while a second object may correspond to a wrist. The skeleton may therefore represent an underlying form on which the character model is built. In this way, movement of the skeleton may cause a corresponding adjustment of the character model.
To create realistic movement, an electronic game designer may therefore adjust positions of the above-described objects included in the skeleton. For example, the electronic game designer may create realistic running via adjustment of specific objects which form a character model's legs. This manual tuning technique to enable movement of a character can result in substantial complexity and significant expenditure of time by developers.

Link: https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/pt/detail.jsf?docId=US390101976&_cid=P20-LDZYJD-29289-1
 
What I find annoying is the lack of imagination at EA. Have pride in your product. With all the profit they make, it would be easy for them to add a “sim mode”.
 
shilts said:
What I find annoying is the lack of imagination at EA. Have pride in your product. With all the profit they make, it would be easy for them to add a “sim mode”.
Click to expand...
One word: greed.

Making a sim mode would mean they’d have to hire a small team of people to produce something which isn’t related to FUT. The suits at their comfy EA Sports offices aren’t going to authorise something which would be made for, what, a few people who want slower and more realistic gameplay?

How many people play FIFA Career Mode compared to FUT, for example? I literally don’t know but I would imagine it’s like 80% of buyers playing the card swapping game and the rest of us trying to enjoy Career? Again, I’ve plucked that statistic out of my backside but it wouldn’t surprise me.

FIFA isn’t a game which is made with love like something such as The Last of Us or a Hideo Kojima game.

FIFA is a soulless game which is churned out every single year with little thought and lots of buzz words.
 
Peter Withe said:
One word: greed.
Click to expand...
I think "greed" is harsh. I'm as sad as anyone that I can't enjoy FIFA any more, but the fact is, EA aren't trying to make masterpieces of art, or unbelievably complex simulations - they exist to make money, just like every other business...

...and in any other business (where you're the market leader), you make products for the majority, not the minority. McDonald's aren't branching out into fine dining any time soon - because they don't need to.

The only hope is an indie developer seeing a gap in the market, but to make a game even as good as the old PES titles, they'd need to be A) brilliant and B) well-funded...

...and that's where it falls down, because the money you'd need to invest to get it feeling like a good simulation, let alone get licensed to feature real footballers and make it marketable, would be twice as much as you'd make from the small number of people who'd buy it (because the vast, vast majority are happy to keep buying FIFA, because they simply don't care that much about the gameplay).

I've said it before but there really is no hope.

I still sincerely believe if EA decided to rip up the rulebook and make a completely different game (more of a sim, more manual but with much deeper AI leading to way more variation in every match) then the reaction would be hugely positive, because it'd be such a huge breath of fresh air for all players. But they're not going to listen to me when the money is rolling in while they keep doing what they're doing.
 
Peter Withe said:
Making a sim mode would mean they’d have to hire a small team of people to produce something which isn’t related to FUT
Click to expand...
I dont think thats the case to be honest.
They dont have to produce anything. All the fundamentals are there, in the code.
They dont produce anything with different patches, just tweaking the code.
Response time, animations, transitions, accuracy, ball speed..
They could easily introduce a "sim" mode at low or no cost, with the people they have.
I work for a huge international company and if someone came to me and asked me - would I be interested in a project on the side, to make something different, that would have a potential to bring a lot of players and potentially evolve in the future (provided the response is good) - id jump on it with both legs. As part of my job. On the side.
Call me naive, but I wont believe for a second that all EA employees dont care about football and dont have the ambition to create a trully realistic mode (not just this marketing talk that we hear every year).
They wouldnt have to change the entire game, which brings them so much money, just add a sim mode to play offline. Sim mode that would be an option. Sim mode that they already had in the past. Its doable. And I dare to say its reasonably easy to implement.
 
Emroth said:
I dont think thats the case to be honest.
They dont have to produce anything. All the fundamentals are there, in the code.
They dont produce anything with different patches, just tweaking the code.
Response time, animations, transitions, accuracy, ball speed..
They could easily introduce a "sim" mode at low or no cost, with the people they have.
I work for a huge international company and if someone came to me and asked me - would I be interested in a project on the side, to make something different, that would have a potential to bring a lot of players and potentially evolve in the future (provided the response is good) - id jump on it with both legs. As part of my job. On the side.
Call me naive, but I wont believe for a second that all EA employees dont care about football and dont have the ambition to create a trully realistic mode (not just this marketing talk that we hear every year).
They wouldnt have to change the entire game, which brings them so much money, just add a sim mode to play offline. Sim mode that would be an option. Sim mode that they already had in the past. Its doable. And I dare to say its reasonably easy to implement.
Click to expand...
I don't believe for a second there isn't an internal modified version that is as realistic as you can make it , of you like football and have the tools and skills to make it why wouldn't you
 
hitmanuk said:
I don't believe for a second there isn't an internal modified version that is as realistic as you can make it , of you like football and have the tools and skills to make it why wouldn't you
Click to expand...
Could be that as well. Modified or UNmodified.
Would even make sense to have a proper version as a starting point and then gradually dumb everything down.
Kinda like:
- how is it, Tom?
- still takes too long to do a first touch and turn. FUT wont like it. Cut few more animations out.
- and this defender right there?
- yea - way too eager. Zombify him a bit.

Its probably true tho! :LOL:
 
Antoine said:
Maybe its because im a simple man :D

I don't play career mode, its quick 5 minute half matches with random teams that take my fancy. No slider tweaks, just basically a highlights package. Its the most Fifa ive played in years.

Definitely, for someone looking for a slower, sim based approach I totally get it, but I gave that ghost up years ago. What makes the game for me is the SHEER VARIETY. Ive got hundreds of goals and action clips saved on my Series X. The keepers are magnificent, the variety of shots and passes is off the scale, never scored or saw the same goal twice. Then theres the hyper motion - its not perfect but its very, very good, lots of animations im still seeing that ive never seen, its a feat of design for a football game.

Then the pitches, stadiums, crowds (which are superb, they Mexican wave, duck when balls fly into them, react to everything on pitch even offside goals.

Never thought Fifa would deliver for me, and their final iteration too. Hopefully they don't patch the goodness out of it before they stop supporting it because I think ill be playing this for years.
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It sounds like you're dating a really hot girl who's also an absolute mental case who could turn on you any given moment :RSCARF:
 
I even feel depress when i read some post here. Not about the game, but ALL you've got to do for rectify the issues.
It's looking impossible, and there's no "issues" for them. It's gameplay choices :(
 
Peter Withe said:
One word: greed.

Making a sim mode would mean they’d have to hire a small team of people to produce something which isn’t related to FUT. The suits at their comfy EA Sports offices aren’t going to authorise something which would be made for, what, a few people who want slower and more realistic gameplay?

How many people play FIFA Career Mode compared to FUT, for example? I literally don’t know but I would imagine it’s like 80% of buyers playing the card swapping game and the rest of us trying to enjoy Career? Again, I’ve plucked that statistic out of my backside but it wouldn’t surprise me.

FIFA isn’t a game which is made with love like something such as The Last of Us or a Hideo Kojima game.

FIFA is a soulless game which is churned out every single year with little thought and lots of buzz words.
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Exactly, Seabass and co made PES with passion and LOVE for football, it was so obvious and clear to see in every aspect of the game. It was what made the little details of retro PES so great.

eFootball and FIFA are the POLAR OPPOSITE, a game with NO LOVE, the whole mentality is how can we make this game more frantic and addictive, so more people buy FUT cards and increase revenue.
 
Chris Davies said:
I think "greed" is harsh. I'm as sad as anyone that I can't enjoy FIFA any more, but the fact is, EA aren't trying to make masterpieces of art, or unbelievably complex simulations - they exist to make money, just like every other business...

...and in any other business (where you're the market leader), you make products for the majority, not the minority. McDonald's aren't branching out into fine dining any time soon - because they don't need to.

The only hope is an indie developer seeing a gap in the market, but to make a game even as good as the old PES titles, they'd need to be A) brilliant and B) well-funded...

...and that's where it falls down, because the money you'd need to invest to get it feeling like a good simulation, let alone get licensed to feature real footballers and make it marketable, would be twice as much as you'd make from the small number of people who'd buy it (because the vast, vast majority are happy to keep buying FIFA, because they simply don't care that much about the gameplay).

I've said it before but there really is no hope.

I still sincerely believe if EA decided to rip up the rulebook and make a completely different game (more of a sim, more manual but with much deeper AI leading to way more variation in every match) then the reaction would be hugely positive, because it'd be such a huge breath of fresh air for all players. But they're not going to listen to me when the money is rolling in while they keep doing what they're doing.
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That's the main problem, even if FIFA is crap then people will think well I'll get the new FIFA, as the last one is crap, so new one will be better. Plus the new FIFA has updated players and all my friends have the new one and there's NO COMPETITION. They near enough have a monopoly and the game is literally a licence to print money and exploit impressionable kids. Thar's the beautiful modern world we live in though, as all the YouTubers are doing exactly the same thing, exploiting and often scamming their fans to make millions. As Coffeezilla has exposed.
 
I'm in the more positive camp. There's a progression from FIFA 21 as shown in FIFA 22 and FIFA 23. When a game isn't designed for you, that's all you can hope for - slight progression. For me, it was the midfielders. Do you think FIFA 23 midfielders are passive? Go play FIFA 21 and realize just how bad it could have been.

Someone in FIFA land said this was important, or noticed how glaring it was, and fixed it. Did they fix it to the sim standard? Absolutely not. But what little they did made it playable, and further enhanced with customizations. Even then it's not the sim standard, but I'd rather live through FIFA 23 than another second of FIFA 21.
 
I’m sorry @Matt10 but I don’t see any progression in the fundamentals. And that’s what is truly important. And what I mean by fundamentals is the way in which a player can zig-zag, float over the turf, bend legs in stupid ways, not lift their leg backwards before kicking the ball. If you can’t get the basic laws of physics right, what does anything else matter?

Like the poster above said, NBA 2K is a popular game and that doesn’t bend the law of physics.

It’s just laziness on EA’s part. When some people moan about speed in their game, EA speed everything up, no matter what. Football can be a fast game at times. But instead of the producers working out how they can speed up areas of the game without breaking the laws of physics, they just cut the animation if it’s taking a certain amount of time.

It’s just shite. But like others have said, EA pretty much has a monopoly now, so they’re not going to do anything differently.
 
shilts said:
I’m sorry @Matt10 but I don’t see any progression in the fundamentals. And that’s what is truly important. And what I mean by fundamentals is the way in which a player can zig-zag, float over the turf, bend legs in stupid ways, not lift their leg backwards before kicking the ball. If you can’t get the basic laws of physics right, what does anything else matter?

Like the poster above said, NBA 2K is a popular game and that doesn’t bend the law of physics.

It’s just laziness on EA’s part. When some people moan about speed in their game, EA speed everything up, no matter what. Football can be a fast game at times. But instead of the producers working out how they can speed up areas of the game without breaking the laws of physics, they just cut the animation if it’s taking a certain amount of time.

It’s just shite. But like others have said, EA pretty much has a monopoly now, so they’re not going to do anything differently.
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Well, that's what is important for you. I already accepted all that. But it wasn't gamebreaking from a gameplay perspective enough. That's not denying it's existence. It's prioritizing the severity.

You're dreaming up a new design, new animation and remaking the game. I'm staying in the "FIFA lane" and picking out what exists, and how with only slight tweaks in their programming, the gamebreaking issue of ultra passive midfield for FIFA 21 could be improved. They did that in FIFA 22 and FIFA 23. Did they address it? Not directly. But that's what you have to hope for in FIFA, you have to hope that something gets fixed along the way because they implemented a new feature, or enhanced an existing feature. I believe the midfield improved because they had aimed to enhance hypermotion, and whatever data trickled through, allowed the midfield to be much less passive than in FIFA 21.
 
The midfield may be less passive but the back line tends to go ridiculously high even when the tactics / attacking levels are set so that doesn't happen.

Extremely frustrating but that's FIFA in general the last few years.
 
StriderX9 said:
The midfield may be less passive but the back line tends to go ridiculously high even when the tactics / attacking levels are set so that doesn't happen.

Extremely frustrating but that's FIFA in general the last few years.
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The defensive line is too high in the attack? As in they go to the midfield line? What tactic are you setting that controls the defensive line in the attack? I'm not sure what you're talking about.
 
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