Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
I only ever use slow with Paul's or anyone's.
FIFA 20 Discussion (PC Version)
- Thread starter bsmaff
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #152
bsmaff
International
The game is played on SLOW, with no sliders - As I personally really hate the game on normal and fast, as feels like ping pong.
I was unaware he has stated to never play on SLOW as it allows for slower inputs.
Overall I do find FIFA 20 the easiest FIFA I have ever played, I am winning most games by 2/3 goals and have even knocked up a couple of 7-0 wins.
On my Arsenal saved game a while back, I stopped playing it as I beat Watford 9-0.
Slow gameplay does have it's bugs, as I believe the AI defending on slow isn't as good as normal, and the GK bug where they never come out is occasionally game breaking.
Unfortunately this year FIFA 20 is just an absolute terrible game, but Paul 2K4 has at least made it playable.
I have read the majority of your posts from the FIFA forums, and we pretty much feel exactly the same way about the game this year.
This is how EA are going though, their aim is to turn FIFA into a full on e-sport and make the game according to how they want it.
Thespeedster84
Champions League
- 4 October 2010
That look fast..
- Staff
- #154
Has anybody seen Paulv2k4's gameplay editor? Check it out here...
This has the power to really change the game (as he's doing with his gameplay mods) - @Matt10, I'd love to see what you could achieve with this tool. Look at this stuff...
All of those physics sliders (turning speed being the one that sticks out MASSIVELY to me) can surely help tone down the slideyness. Surely...
I really hope someone with more time (and knowledge) than me has the time to play with it!
This has the power to really change the game (as he's doing with his gameplay mods) - @Matt10, I'd love to see what you could achieve with this tool. Look at this stuff...
All of those physics sliders (turning speed being the one that sticks out MASSIVELY to me) can surely help tone down the slideyness. Surely...
I really hope someone with more time (and knowledge) than me has the time to play with it!
- Thread starter
- #155
bsmaff
International
I have now been trying the game with both Slow and Normal game speeds.
Normal:-
The game actually feels more balanced, and slightly more difficult.
You have to change the way you play slightly though, as it seems the CPU can close you down quicker making playing a full on possession game much more difficult.
Also alot of the game play glitches do not appear when playing at this level - The ultra static defenders do not seem so apparent in this mode and you can't sprint past defenders with relative ease.
SLOW:-
Much prefer the actual speed of the game and allows you to pass the ball around waiting to create a perfect chance.
Game is not so much end to end, and there are alot more fouls commited by both myself and the CPU at this level - It seems the running into people doesn't win the ball as much as in Normal.
Although the game feels to play better on SLOW, it has some big issues.
Static defenders for both you and CPU, where if you got a decent striker you can pass the ball or through ball to a striker and he can get a 1 on 1 pretty much every attack.
Goalkeepers are pretty much always glued to the six yard box and never close you down, this happens on Normal.
After trying both, TBH I am slightly more inclined this year to say I enjoy 'Normal' the most - Which I never thought I would.
The balance of the game is just better, and the game breaking issues with SLOW have me leaning towards prefering NORMAL.
- Staff
- #156
Interesting - this is my biggest problem at the minute, and I play on "slow", because I just can't bear the pace on "normal". Especially the AI's absolutely ridiculous perfect first-time tiki-taka no matter their body or foot positioning.
But if I play on "normal" with slower sliders, the ball physics become faster than the gameplay (even if you reduce the pass/shot speed, the physics are off), and my main issue is that player energy barely reduces through the match when you turn down "acceleration" (the main driver of floatiness and ridiculous AI moves/tiki-takas, in my opinion).
With that gameplay editor that's been released (see my previous posts in this thread), it will be possible to reduce all speed elements of "normal" so that it plays at the same speed as "slow" (if not slower), and maybe reduce the floaty feeling.
I wish I had the time to dedicate to it, but I just don't.
- Staff
- #157
...okay, I did have a little play with the editor last night. I mean, the difference is clear, and instant. It even made "normal" speed bearable for me.
I turned AI attacking intelligence down a few notches, to reduce tiki-taka, and turned the AI defending intelligence up to almost maximum, to give you a defence that's tougher to break down.
On top of that, I lowered "hip speed" and "ankle speed" to reduce floatiness and pass speed respectively. Suddenly, the AI players pass the ball around more. No just surging through space.
It's still floaty, it's still FIFA. But I was just conducting a few experiments and within 20 minutes of tuning different editor variables, I was enjoying the game literally twice as much.
If someone with a simulation mindset dedicated a few hours to this editor (which is just a UI that spits out a new "locale.ini" file at the moment)... Oh man. I hope someone steps up to the plate.
(I know Paulv2k4 makes his gameplay mods but I'm not a fan - I see the value in his work and what he's achieving, but it remains ridiculously fast and with the silliest AI tiki-taka, because he's willing to accept that for the pay-off of making the game more difficult. Different strokes and all that!)
I turned AI attacking intelligence down a few notches, to reduce tiki-taka, and turned the AI defending intelligence up to almost maximum, to give you a defence that's tougher to break down.
On top of that, I lowered "hip speed" and "ankle speed" to reduce floatiness and pass speed respectively. Suddenly, the AI players pass the ball around more. No just surging through space.
It's still floaty, it's still FIFA. But I was just conducting a few experiments and within 20 minutes of tuning different editor variables, I was enjoying the game literally twice as much.
If someone with a simulation mindset dedicated a few hours to this editor (which is just a UI that spits out a new "locale.ini" file at the moment)... Oh man. I hope someone steps up to the plate.
(I know Paulv2k4 makes his gameplay mods but I'm not a fan - I see the value in his work and what he's achieving, but it remains ridiculously fast and with the silliest AI tiki-taka, because he's willing to accept that for the pay-off of making the game more difficult. Different strokes and all that!)
This is interesting to me as I was going to try pauls mod and changed everything but then went to sleep. Then, the next day i loaded up the game without frosty and played a bunch of games. I was getting walloped in Legendary. AI was playing tougher... lowered to WC and the same thing (again, I'm not the best player, ashamed to even say I play on a bunch of assisted settings).
Figured out I hadn't changed the config from Paul.... I was playing with it but without the frosty mod...
So could it be that someone can tweak the AI via the editor and post the locale.ini for the community to try out... similar to the "dt18" files in PES thread?
- Staff
- #160
Yep, exactly that. All you need to do is backup your old locale.ini, replace it with a modder's version, and you've got modded gameplay. No need for anything else, including Frosty and the editor. (You don't even need the editor to make changes to the file, if you know what each line affects.)
All I know is, if I set the AI's attacking ability to 0.5+, with the defending ability at 0.75+, and turn down all of the speed and turning related sliders, I get a game with a midfield again. It's not perfect - I still don't prefer it to modded PES 2020 - but it's playable, and challenging without being "silly".
Bear in mind that (as far as I know) changing AI att/def ability overrides difficulty level. My in-game difficulty is set to "Professional" but with modded AI ability values it plays like a hybrid of Legendary and Ultimate (without the silly attribute boosts).
I just haven't got the time to sit down and test each individual values' impact right now. But I'd love to test what other modders with similar thoughts to myself (e.g. "SLOW IT DOWN") could come up with.
That's something that had me puzzled as I once again used Paul's file this time in Pro and even though I felt some of the reactions were slower (could have been coincidence), some AI games were pretty hard. Sliders shouldnt be overriden, correct?
- Thread starter
- #162
bsmaff
International
New Paul2K4 version.
Seems to produce a few more fouls than before.
Seems to produce a few more fouls than before.
- Thread starter
- #163
bsmaff
International
Only problem with FIFA this year, is I can't believe how easy the game is on Legendary and WC.
I normally struggle and have some very good games on Legendary and really struggle to win consecutive games.
This season nearly finished January and lost just 2 games all season and won every other game.
Lost on pens to Spurs in the Caraboa Cup and to Mansfield in the League 2-1 when I rested my star striker.
This years FIFA really is all about pace, there isn't a single other stat that matters in the whole game.
I signed another striker in Jan with again loads of pace and my first game with both fast strikers playing, I won 10-0 on Legendary.
Apart from the West Ham game which ended 3-1, I have been winning most games by over 5 goals.
I normally struggle and have some very good games on Legendary and really struggle to win consecutive games.
This season nearly finished January and lost just 2 games all season and won every other game.
Lost on pens to Spurs in the Caraboa Cup and to Mansfield in the League 2-1 when I rested my star striker.
This years FIFA really is all about pace, there isn't a single other stat that matters in the whole game.
I signed another striker in Jan with again loads of pace and my first game with both fast strikers playing, I won 10-0 on Legendary.
Apart from the West Ham game which ended 3-1, I have been winning most games by over 5 goals.
- Staff
- #164
Since @paulv2k4 was kind enough to give me some advice on his Discord channel for his FIFA patches, I've opened the gameplay files, and my God. It's insane, just how complex the engine is - and how much of it is clearly tuned AWAY from realism, for online "fun" (there are ~20 ball physics settings, and more for the field itself, all labelled and originally based on real physics, but now sped up so that passes are faster and games finish with 20 shots a side instead of 5).
Excuse the awful photo, I was sending these to poor @Emroth and ranting last night:
("Imagine if you care about this stuff, imagine how shit it must feel to code all these real-world physics and then have to dilute it all because little Johnny thinks it's boring" etc...)
Luckily the girlfriend has a degree in physics, and helped me to (very loosely) understand a lot of the formulas here - and adding more friction etc. immediately made my game more playable, let alone reducing the top end of power that can be transferred to the ball.
Anyway, point being... Through this tool you can limit the top speed of players - I'm sure turning the "top speed" slider down a lot will impact this too. As far as I know, turning that down reduces the difference between the slowest and fastest players.
Yes, we shouldn't have to do 1% of this shit to get a decent, realistic game out of it - but, and I can't emphasise this enough, they are not making the game for us, they're making a game for FUTters and we're getting the dregs of it in Career Mode etc. because we don't give them any microtransaction money (and they've broken all their previous revenue records this year through FUT, so tell me it's gonna change any time soon). If we want a decent football game, we don't have a choice here but to pull it to bits and rebuild it.
papinho81
Champions League
@Chris Davies I tried to dive into this a couple of month ago to try to improve the overall game physics. First thing I did was to increase the ball weight and slightly the ball size. It actually improved the ball physics to fit better my liking BUT the ball was behaving strangely with the net, sometime going though it, like if the ball was now too heavy for the nets. I am sure I could have fix that by editing the net physics in accordance (yes you can do that), but I would have had to do it for every types of net the game have (different tension ect...). In frosty if you search for "physics" you will get so many files (each file exists in double because Volta has is specific physics files which are in different folders (it means you can make the normal game physic identical to volta if you want to)) and each file has many variables that probably interacts between each others. If you think sliders editing is a rabbit hole, this is a GIGANTIC rabbit hole. I personally decided not to jump that gigantic rabbit hole because I was not sure I could ever fix the thing that annoys me the most with this game, AKA the new exclusive user selected player defensive system (Instead I decided to stick with FIFA16 but I am currently trapped in the LUT making rabbit hole 
).
At some point I though to open a thread in the edit section to share exploration/knowledge between members. I have started an excel sheet to record the results of my early tests that you can find here if it is to anyone interest:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/3tlk5gvzr4nylpc/Gameplay_editst.xls/file
(not so many things in this as I only started playing with that before I realized the amount of the work that would imply).
EDIT: Actually two other things discouraged me into the dive. 1) Updates probably requiring fine tuning. 2) I changed the air density value (was it viscosity?) to a ridiculous value that made the ball behave like a balloon. While every trajectory was unexpected for me, the cpu just played like if nothing had changed.
).At some point I though to open a thread in the edit section to share exploration/knowledge between members. I have started an excel sheet to record the results of my early tests that you can find here if it is to anyone interest:
http://www.mediafire.com/file/3tlk5gvzr4nylpc/Gameplay_editst.xls/file
(not so many things in this as I only started playing with that before I realized the amount of the work that would imply).
EDIT: Actually two other things discouraged me into the dive. 1) Updates probably requiring fine tuning. 2) I changed the air density value (was it viscosity?) to a ridiculous value that made the ball behave like a balloon. While every trajectory was unexpected for me, the cpu just played like if nothing had changed.
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Difficulty is an interesting one for me. I've never won a FIFA 20 match 10-0 on Legendary, but I also play with manual/semi controls, broadcast camera, and with another person. Sometimes we tank the opposition, other times, not so much. We certainly don't walk the league with Paul's career mod because the likes of Liverpool and City rarely lose a match. We won the Europa in our first season in our most recent save and lost a Carabao Cup final, but came 6th or 7th in the league.
Pace, like always, is a very important attribute. Granted, Lewandowski scored 35 goals for us in his first season (he's one of the best strikers on the planet, so I'd hope so). I found switching to a 4-5-1 (ATTACK) to be the difference maker from a defensive standpoint. The CPU loves to make sweeping diagonals and spam the wings, but having the added protection of both a fullback and wingback nullifies most threats in those areas.
Pace, like always, is a very important attribute. Granted, Lewandowski scored 35 goals for us in his first season (he's one of the best strikers on the planet, so I'd hope so). I found switching to a 4-5-1 (ATTACK) to be the difference maker from a defensive standpoint. The CPU loves to make sweeping diagonals and spam the wings, but having the added protection of both a fullback and wingback nullifies most threats in those areas.
- Thread starter
- #167
bsmaff
International
I tried a career a long time ago with Arsenal again on Legendary.
I was top of the table P9 W8 D1, then I hammered Watford by 7 goals, so turned it off.
League 2 was much more difficult to win, until I signed a pacey striker, and was winning most games 3/4-0, then in Jan bought a fast winger and another fast striker and now destroying teams.
I haven't won a game by less than 5 goals since January, and flying in the cups beating Prem teams.
I normally play on Semi Passing, Crossing and Shooting, with Auto through balls.
Personally I don't like playing with manual, as passes are always too wayward and with auto shooting all you have to do is press the shoot button and it goes in the net.
I know I am screwed, I want a simulation and I get an arcadey fast paced mess of a game.
Where there are exactly the same bugs year after year, and really lazy programming where EA can't be arsed to do proper competition rules.
Being a supporter of a League 2 club, it really sticks out and bugs me that competition rules are not correct, and maybe I notice it more as I play Football Manager which can get competition rules correct for 500+ league and cup competitions..
Although admitedly it is difficult to get the Johnsons Paint Trophy correct with there now being u23 teams involved.
FIFA is only going to get worse now, as it seems both the FUT want this type of game and EA themselves just want the game to be an eSport.
I get the feeling that with the new power of the consoles, we will now just see EA adding a few more stadiums and more skill moves.
PES is just NO..
I get the feeling, that soon I will be going back and playing modded versions of FIFA 16.
Or SWOS, as that still has the best career mode of any football game.
manmachine
Premiership
- 22 June 2008
Whoa! I didn't even buy 20, but now I'm curious if I can tweak the ball size in other frostbite games. 17 has a tiny ball but otherwise it's a much better game. Not better than 16, but still, I could re-install it and give it another shot. Any pointers to the file/parameter that controls the ball size?
papinho81
Champions League
I think the last version of frosty is compatible with older games so you can probably do that. I think @Bendit did it for 19.
Pointers: search for Physics and/ or Ball in the frosty editor search bar. In 20 the file to edit is called "gp_physics_soccerball_runtime" you just need to be sure you are editing the one for the standard game, not the one for volta (no volta in olders title so there is probably only one file).
The parameter is called Soccerball_Radius
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- Staff
- #170
All I know is that I'm using Frosty Editor to access everything, then searching for "gp_" for these parameters.
Just had a look at the Frosty Editor wiki and it turns out FIFA 17 is indeed supported, so it should be the same deal. You download Frosty Editor, install into its own folder, run it, point it towards the 17 EXE, it may ask you to run the game in the background so that it can build an SDK, and that should be it (18, 19 and 20 require a decryption key but apparently 17 doesn't need one).
If you do it, I'd be really interested if you could post the physics figures used in 17... Then they could theoretically be ported into 20, although the engine changes mean it probably isn't as easy as that. Still worth a try...
manmachine
Premiership
- 22 June 2008
Thank you both. It may take me some time/days (need to start from scratch as I've uninstalled 17, but I'll post again. I've tried to make the ball size bigger in 17 before (last summer) without getting anywhere. I remember I asked for help in the discord as well but no one seemed to know back then. The ball physics in 17 are perhaps the best of any fifa game, the ball weight and small bounces are very satisfying so it will be interesting to see if the values can be copied/pasted. It just *looks* crap because of the tiny ball size!
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
DS4windows and the controller has to be in exclusive mode. https://github.com/Ryochan7/DS4Windows/releases
Ok i will try it thanks
manmachine
Premiership
- 22 June 2008
Well it didn't take long. To find out that these files/parameters do not exist in older titles (or are hidden elsewhere, perhaps even in the executable). Oh well, It's probably a new addition in 20. Now if only fifa 21 is a better base for a football game, it could be interesting to see what can be done with this stuff. But for now I'll go back to my cave and fifa 16. 😆
- Staff
- #176
That's really interesting, I wouldn't have thought they were hard-coded. Did you try searching for "gp_", and "ball", and "physics"? The search function is a bit tricky to find in the UI (it's not the one on the right, there's one to search each entry in the left panel, at the root).
manmachine
Premiership
- 22 June 2008
Yeah, I'm quite certain I'm not missing anything, I even reinstalled fifa 20 (I did not use the full 10 hours of my trial so origin still lets me download it even though I didn't buy it!). I found all the "gp" stuff easily in 20, but they're missing in fifa 17 & 18. Didn't try to search in fifa 19. It seems they change/add things little by little with every game.
papinho81
Champions League
@manmachine you can may be try to open the exe with a hex editor and search for radius and see if it returns any interesting string in the results. If any, add the line to the locale.ini and try extreme values. You might get lucky.
manmachine
Premiership
- 22 June 2008
I thought of that but used cheatengine to scan the memory instead. Even in fifa 20 all you can find in memory is a reference to the file (soccerball_runtime I think) and all the parameters follow as a series of floating point numbers and no variable names. The exe scans the configuration files and just creates a block of variables/numbers in memory. So it's a bit like a lottery finding a similar sequence of floating point numbers in fifa 17 with no filename or variable names for reference. Maybe I'll give it a shot when I'm bored though and get lucky. There's a small chance, if some values are exactly the same (def. not the radius/size though, ha) and kept in the same order in memory.
Edit: I'll try the locale.ini thing though, didn't think that!
Edit 2: Well, the SOCCERBALL_RADIUS variable is not a thing in 17 / doesn't have any effect when placed in locale.ini.
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Thanks now It works