FIFA 12 Discussion Thread

Rodelero said:
@LTFC

No, it's more complex than that. The defensive AI (I presume you're talking about the CPU AI here) do use the 'new' defensive system, but they are still enhanced by Jedi like reactions (ie, what feels like mind reading essentially). They aren't going to pressure you off the park but it is nigh on impossible to actually get past them.

In attack, the CPU AI goes the other way, and is capable of tearing you to shreds when dribbling. You'll be trying to hold a structured line, and then it will manage insane feats of twists and turns which you simply can't get close to keeping up with - it seems to 'know' which way you're moving to defend against them almost. The number of times I felt the AI should have been passing to work some space, and instead if then decided to take me on (and beat me with ease) was ridiculous.

Using the 'contain' function helps, but that is because the 'contain' function gives you a small bit of that super human reaction to use.

The situation now highlights better than ever the need for greater inertia, and an advanced dribbling model, as well as the need to finally rid ourselves of the AI's reaction pace. Have to say that the lot of us did press the reaction issue really-really hard with Rutter (he actually asked us specifically about CPU AI so we took him up on that question and then some)... hopefully we'll see some change in that area, but at the moment, it's a bit of a mess.



Exactly. It's equivalent to making 'sprint' double as a shot modifier. I always believed the reason they didn't use LT/RT/L2/R2 as modifiers was because you simply use those buttons constantly, but here we are.
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Thanks Rodelero for your reply on this :)

The issue of the game feeling like it reads your mind is a big problem I've had with the game for years. It's always too easy on the lower levels, ramp up the difficulty to Legendary or even World Class and yeah, it absolutely reads pad movements and calculates ball movement angles etc in a crudely mathmatical way so as to cut down angles, charge you down faster etc. The heat seeking defenders use this only too well. They charge at lightning speed and can change their trajectory and full on direction basically as you move the stick, rather than have to deal with reacting with your movement after you've done it.

So to hear this type of thing is still in the game, or worse even, is really disappointing. That, and the fact that the dribbling is so out of touch with real physics.

How odd, PES went downhill and FIFA stepped itself right up, now suddenly they seem content with going back the other way that the games were during the PS2 days. PES going for realism, FIFA going for flashy bells and whistles. Such a shame.
 
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kouroux said:
Sliders are needed to give a variety of options that will in theory satisfy casual and hardcore gamers.As long as PES keeps focusing on the hardcore fans and keep the same philosophy, I don't think there'll be a need for sliders.
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Sliders are not for casual gamers, casual gamers don´t even know that sliders exists in most of games. It really gives variaty of options, but these options are only to satisfy hardcore gamers to adjust the game to his taste. That´s why i believe that if PES had sliders would be a much better game, just like the 2K sport games.
 
Honome_WEC said:
Sliders are not for casual gamers, casual gamers don´t even know that sliders exists in most of games. It really gives variaty of options, but these options are only to satisfy hardcore gamers to adjust the game to his taste. That´s why i believe that if PES had sliders would be a much better game, just like the 2K sport games.
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You don't know how good or bad Fifa is until you have played with the sliders.
 
Nice CM write-up Nick, but no mention of either morale or form? Or did I miss it? These are the two features I'm most interested in hearing more about. As nice as much of the other stuff sounds, aside from the new injury system, it's all mostly fluff and will not have a great impact on your daily CM experience.

Yes the transfer deadline day feature sounds like fun but lets remember, it's a feature that'll be relevant only twice a season. So aside from injuries, which sounds great, form and morale are the only real additions to impact how me manage our squads week-in and week-out. I guess maybe you could add the Youth Academy to that list as well though it's hard to get an idea of how useful it'll be.

So when it comes to form and morale, could you go into more detail describing these systems? Hopefully they are much more in-depth than a silly email system.

Also, you mention that player growth is improved, and you mention the addition of Squad Ranking, but has there also been a revamp in the way that player ratings are done? As we all know, previously the player ratings system has been terrible, with a player scoring two goals sometimes receiving a 7 while defensive players easily scored 8 and above, etc., so has this system been upgraded? Form, morale, player growth, Squad Ranking... so much rests on logical player match performance ratings.

Also, I haven't seen any mentioning of changes to VPs in CM - any word on improvements with that aspect of CM?

Thanks again for your write-up and it looks like a positive and, possibly, a substantial step forward for CM. Only time will tell to what degree the improvements are window-dressing and how much really matters to the experience of managing a squad.
 
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LTFC said:
Thanks Rodelero for your reply on this :)

The issue of the game feeling like it reads your mind is a big problem I've had with the game for years. It's always too easy on the lower levels, ramp up the difficulty to Legendary or even World Class and yeah, it absolutely reads pad movements and calculates ball movement angles etc in a crudely mathmatical way so as to cut down angles, charge you down faster etc. The heat seeking defenders use this only too well. They charge at lightning speed and can change their trajectory and full on direction basically as you move the stick, rather than have to deal with reacting with your movement after you've done it.

So to hear this type of thing is still in the game, or worse even, is really disappointing. That, and the fact that the dribbling is so out of touch with real physics.

How odd, PES went downhill and FIFA stepped itself right up, now suddenly they seem content with going back the other way that the games were during the PS2 days. PES going for realism, FIFA going for flashy bells and whistles. Such a shame.
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My sentiments exactly. After viewing today's PES gameplay videos highlighting its AI, if solid improvements are also made to animations, controls, and responsiveness, PES could really be something special this year. And it goes to show how Konami are focusing on what matters to the hardcore and mature fans of the sport while EA seems to have fallen back into their traditional role of providing flashy window-dressing rather than depth. FIFA is certainly better than it was in the glory years of PES but it does seem to look like possibly a return to the old status quo. Hopefully Konami can deliver this year.
 
jaygrim said:
You don't know how good or bad Fifa is until you have played with the sliders.
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True, i have hope that the sliders make the game better vs AI, but from my experience on other EA games that hope can be useless since most of the sliders don´t work so well, and i can´t see how fifa will be different than other EA games in that matter.

First i would like to see a list of the sliders. My main concern is about passing accuracy of the AI teams because they have a rate of +80% for ANY team, even for 1 star team, that frustrates a lot offline manual players.

In NHL11, for exemple, there´s a CPU pass accuracy slider that is clearly broken, even in minimum the CPU still passes much better and much quicker than user players.
 
kouroux said:
Sliders are needed to give a variety of options that will in theory satisfy casual and hardcore gamers.As long as PES keeps focusing on the hardcore fans and keep the same philosophy, I don't think there'll be a need for sliders.
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+1

PES doesn't need sliders as it's not going for mass market appeal. They know what they want from the game and they stick to it.
 
mfmaxpower said:
Nice CM write-up Nick, but no mention of either morale or form? Or did I miss it? These are the two features I'm most interested in hearing more about. As nice as much of the other stuff sounds, aside from the new injury system, it's all mostly fluff and will not have a great impact on your daily CM experience.

Yes the transfer deadline day feature sounds like fun but lets remember, it's a feature that'll be relevant only twice a season. So aside from injuries, which sounds great, form and morale are the only real additions to impact how me manage our squads week-in and week-out. I guess maybe you could add the Youth Academy to that list as well though it's hard to get an idea of how useful it'll be.

So when it comes to form and morale, could you go into more detail describing these systems? Hopefully they are much more in-depth than a silly email system.

Also, you mention that player growth is improved, and you mention the addition of Squad Ranking, but has there also been a revamp in the way that player ratings are done? As we all know, previously the player ratings system has been terrible, with a player scoring two goals sometimes receiving a 7 while defensive players easily scored 8 and above, etc., so has this system been upgraded? Form, morale, player growth, Squad Ranking... so much rests on logical player match performance ratings.

Also, I haven't seen any mentioning of changes to VPs in CM - any word on improvements with that aspect of CM?

Thanks again for your write-up and it looks like a positive and, possibly, a substantial step forward for CM. Only time will tell to what degree the improvements are window-dressing and how much really matters to the experience of managing a squad.
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Ooopps just realised I have some how managed to lose some paragraphs, I have posted the couple I could find on an earlier save, the other two are gone into the ether.:P

Given the short time we had I never got to play with VP or Player or Player Manager mode, which is a shame...:((
 
Jamezinho said:
+1

PES doesn't need sliders as it's not going for mass market appeal. They know what they want from the game and they stick to it.
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For me PES would be miles better with good working sliders like 2K games have. Also the sliders have nothing to do with a game for mass market appeal, if it were tru Fifa would have sliders since 2007 and the 2K NHL series would not have sliders since they were cleary made for hardcore fans until 2K8.
 
airjoca said:
NBA 2K is made with the Basketball junkies in mind, and the sliders can make it even better.
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I've never used them.

Seriously I don't think PES would benefit from sliders is any way other than a basic game speed setting. Otherwise I'd much rather everyone plays the same game.

If the developers do their jobs properly and produce an accurate game, sliders aren't needed.
 
Get the gameplay right, get it so it's varied and the AI and individuality elements are all up to a top standard, then add sliders.

If the core gameplay is crap. Sliders will be pretty much useless.
 
klashman69 said:
Get the gameplay right, get it so it's varied and the AI and individuality elements are all up to a top standard, then add sliders.

If the core gameplay is crap. Sliders will be pretty much useless.
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Exactly.

That´s why sliders would be great in PES and will probably be shitty in Fifa. PES already have a great gameplay, AI and individuality; sliders would only contribute to make the game better.
 
I like the slider for "pass error". If you play against Barcelona you can set it to almost non, and when you play lesser sides you could bump it up. That could give us some variation maybe.
 
The value added by sliders may vary depending upon their implementation, but what is there to lose by adding them? I always say the more options given to us the better.

Core gameplay is always priority #1, but at least for offline and single player there is nothing to lose and much to gain by giving the gamer as many options for customization as possible, from controls, to gameplay variables, to audio and visuals, to CM, to player looks.

The sliders in FIFA may be of limited value this year but I for one am sure glad they've added them, at least to get the ball rolling. And just as I think it's awesome Konami have added manual passing options (essentially a slider), PES has nothing to lose by including further choices for customization.
 
mfmaxpower said:
The sliders in FIFA may be of limited value this year but I for one am sure glad they've added them, at least to get the ball rolling. And just as I think it's awesome Konami have added manual passing options (essentially a slider), PES has nothing to lose by including further choices for customization.
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When I was speaking to David Rutter on the 11th he actually told me that the sliders are what they're currently using to balance the game. He also went on to say that it was a big risk for EA to allow the user the same access as they could simply change all of the sliders to the lowest value and as he put it "make the game retarded only for people to post up the footage online and say FIFA was broken" so it sounds like they can make a significant difference. That said I didn't actually try them out for myself, I wanted to see how the game would play on default settings.
 
Just thinking about that, so would that mean that if I put defensive line at a very low setting in the slider it would mean that when I have a defensive formation and tactic the team won't push up to the halfwayline with every counter? Or will it just do that for every team with eveyr formation? Will be interesting to see how much of an effect it has, and whether it can help with the obvious flaws.
 
BigZombieMonkey said:
When I was speaking to David Rutter on the 11th he actually told me that the sliders are what they're currently using to balance the game. He also went on to say that it was a big risk for EA to allow the user the same access as they could simply change all of the sliders to the lowest value and as he put it "make the game retarded only for people to post up the footage online and say FIFA was broken" so it sounds like they can make a significant difference. That said I didn't actually try them out for myself, I wanted to see how the game would play on default settings.
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If the so called "balance" by him is what make all the teams in the game plays the same way sliders will be a bless.

I am curious to see how the sliders will change the behavior of 5 star teams. Fifa is almost enjoyable offline when playing with lower teams (4 star max) but playing with and against 5 star teams is boring as hell, maybe sliders can make it less painful and maybe even the game playable offline...
 
BigZombieMonkey said:
When I was speaking to David Rutter on the 11th he actually told me that the sliders are what they're currently using to balance the game. He also went on to say that it was a big risk for EA to allow the user the same access as they could simply change all of the sliders to the lowest value and as he put it "make the game retarded only for people to post up the footage online and say FIFA was broken" so it sounds like they can make a significant difference. That said I didn't actually try them out for myself, I wanted to see how the game would play on default settings.
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Hmm, well that's interesting because if they're only working with one slider to control the entirety of pass accuracy (unless I'm mistaken, I believe it was said there's only one slider for passing accuracy and all it affected was the amount of bouncing in a pass) then that's extremely limited and explains why passing isn't done well at the moment. Surely they have methods to control more variables than what they showed with the sliders?

I can understand his argument but I think it's a pretty weak one - I'm not sure I've heard of another game with sliders be negatively effected in such a way. NHL and NBA 2k are two sports titles that, last I checked, are doing pretty well.
 
To clarify, they wouldn't be using exactly the same sliders as us - they will have a hell of a lot more. But they will have a system that is analogous to what is being given to us. It'll be a grown up, not very user friendly version.

The flair passes are indeed buggy - just had it confirmed that they are meant to be restricted by player abilities, and that in the full game they should have significantly increased risk of error.
 
romagnoli said:
To clarify, they wouldn't be using exactly the same sliders as us - they will have a hell of a lot more. But they will have a system that is analogous to what is being given to us. It'll be a grown up, not very user friendly version.

The flair passes are indeed buggy - just had it confirmed that they are meant to be restricted by player abilities, and that in the full game they should have significantly increased risk of error.
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Yeah, that's what I figured. And hopefully someone has mentioned to them that it'd be nice to be able to influence passing directional error in addition to the bobbly-bounciness of passes?

I don't know how I feel about the flair feature but I'm not going to condemn it wholesale without seeing it first. I could see it having its usefulness, like for example in a volley/header situation like Rod said. It'd be great to be in control of when to volley. And if the passing part of it is limited, then it might not be a bad addition. Certainly not necessary, but that ship has likely sailed and I expect it'll be included.

Although, on the other hand, flair passing is just one more feature I'll probably never use since I play mostly with lower ranked teams in CM and player traits, unless changed this year, are rare for players ranked below 80. Any news on whether special traits and abilities will be more widely dispersed throughout the player database?
 
Spike asked - they hope to carry on improving things so that lower end players do have ability spikes where appropriate. It should be better this year, fingers crossed, and presumably it'll carry on improving over time.
 
I'd also like to see a modifier for when you want to volley instead of header as this is a basic decision that a player makes in real life and the CPU shouldn't always choose for you. The outcome of course won't always be right but at least you've had the choice of how to hit the ball.

The only slider I want to see in PES for now is to adjust camera angles like in FIFA.
 
daikirai said:
A volley modifier would be nice. So many times I want to just wait an extra second but if I do he'll chest the ball down and lose the ball immediately.
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Isn't it there, forgot where it gets mentioned by playtester.
I am curious of the output of volley modifier :

1. When the ball is exactly somewhere between head and chest close to a player, shoot + volley modifier button = overhead kick or there will be no response ?

2. When the ball is exactly somewhere between waist and foot close to a player, shoot only = diving header ?
 
mfmaxpower said:
Hmm, well that's interesting because if they're only working with one slider to control the entirety of pass accuracy (unless I'm mistaken, I believe it was said there's only one slider for passing accuracy and all it affected was the amount of bouncing in a pass) then that's extremely limited and explains why passing isn't done well at the moment. Surely they have methods to control more variables than what they showed with the sliders?

I can understand his argument but I think it's a pretty weak one - I'm not sure I've heard of another game with sliders be negatively effected in such a way. NHL and NBA 2k are two sports titles that, last I checked, are doing pretty well.
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What I meant by my post is that they announced they could change certain areas of the game via "live patching", that's what they're using for this, the sliders. In development they can obviously fine tune and so on and change a lot more variables but when the game is released I'm pretty certain the sliders are all they use for fine tuning unless they release a full patch.
 
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