Gab_
I agree
- 6 April 2009
It's not about PES vs FIFA, it's about FIFA being crap regardless what PES does. Only fanboys take sides.
FIFA 12 Discussion Thread
- Thread starter danyjr
- Start date
MadbaLL
Interista per sempre!
hater no2, ha?
fifa is not crap, from 2008 is better than pes.
sorry that you guys cannot handle it. opposite to you, i don't live in era of pes 5 and pes 6 anymore. those two games are pc football legends. but konami never managed to make another good pes since then. fifa did.
It's not about this era or that era, its the Fifa thread and people are entitled to mention both its positives and faults. If we do like you then we're turning a blind eye to all its faults, which is just wrong. We all want the best for our games and try to point out faults, hoping someone out there reads our posts and fixes what needs fixing. Sadly though, cash rules. But we as consumers who look for a better product, have nothing but to keep on trying and hoping.
Gab_
I agree
- 6 April 2009
Sim heads like me and Rob went to FIFA with FIFA 08 because it was going in the right direction. However, PES 2010 was going more in the right direction than FIFA 10 so that's when the sim heads switched back.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Pretty much this. FIFA 08 showed huge potential, and was a sign that EA were looking to change their approach to a more sim-orientated product. Since then EA have delivered nothing on that front. If they had then I probably wouldn't be playing PES today.
a) lol
b) i think all he's highlighting is that this is what Fifa rewards you for - these are their goals of the day after all. There's not one goal there that happens to be due to decent team work or a well worked counter attack. It's ALL about one player doing tricks round the opposition and that's a great goal apparently (side note - there's no counter for tricks really unless the guy doing them happens to run into you, that in itself is a major issue). There's a reason Mr Woo isn't a professional footballer afterall.YouTube - Mr woo and his magic skills
b) i think all he's highlighting is that this is what Fifa rewards you for - these are their goals of the day after all. There's not one goal there that happens to be due to decent team work or a well worked counter attack. It's ALL about one player doing tricks round the opposition and that's a great goal apparently (side note - there's no counter for tricks really unless the guy doing them happens to run into you, that in itself is a major issue). There's a reason Mr Woo isn't a professional footballer afterall.YouTube - Mr woo and his magic skills
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Rob92
Guest
As Gab said, I'm not taking sides...
From my point of view as a fan of simulation football games, there is only one choice - PES. This is not me taking a side, this is my opinion.
Despite PES' obvious limitations, it's made clear that Konami understand football, and EA Sports do not.
I get how FIFA could look better and be more accessible to very casual football fans (glory supporters) or people not really interested in football (rather looking for a good "video game"), but if you've been a football fan for years and know the tactical side of the game well, it's gameplay should stick out as being horribly unrealistic... No matter how responsive the controls, amount of game modes or online features, if when you get on the pitch it's just an insult to football, I'm afraid I'm just not interested.
It's not even like FIFA's lack of realism is balanced out by a fun factor - hardcore motor-racing fans can still enjoy Mario Kart even though it's got unrealistic physics, no damage, fictional drivers etc. because it's just light-hearted fun... FIFA actually takes itself seriously.
Oh and regarding the FIFA hater comment - I was actually very pro-FIFA during the time of FIFA 08-09 whilst finding PES a laughable mess in those years, only becoming disillusioned by the poor FIFA 10, even more so recently with the even worse FIFA 11.
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mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
Some sim heads switched back. For others, like myself, PES still has too many inexcusable shortcomings to be worthwhile. Going in the "right" direction is not enough for many of us; execution is just as important, if not more so.
While loads of PES fans, again like myself, switched over to FIFA with 08, many of us have yet to be convinced of PES on the current gen hardware, even if we believe more in Konami's approach to the game than EA's.
On the other hand, FIFA's quality (and CM's) being what it is this year, I'm not really playing either game anymore. FIFA 12 and PES 2012 can't come soon enough for me.
Vieirinha
League 2
- 18 February 2011
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Rob92
Guest
Recent posting history will make me look like a "FIFA hater", but we havn't exactly been given much reason to expect much from future editions of it, have we?
Just search Robs posting history... Thats all that Ill tell you.
I'd be more than happy to be proved wrong with my views on the FIFA series.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
Rob has every right to post what he does and he's not alone in doing so. There are a hell of a lot of people who would definitely herald FIFA as the second coming if it actually was as good as that. It is actually a good video game, or at least would be if it wasn't FUBAR as far as bugs go. But for those of us who want a football game that has longevity as well as depth, FIFA just hasn't been what we are looking for. PES is a lot closer, and though the execution is currently pretty iffy, there is still something that excites all the right parts of the brain.
Do not waste any more time with this fanboy nonsense. Take that to the official forums or to PESFan, or wherever. But if accusations are going to be the extent of your contribution to this site, then we're all better off without you.
Do not waste any more time with this fanboy nonsense. Take that to the official forums or to PESFan, or wherever. But if accusations are going to be the extent of your contribution to this site, then we're all better off without you.
nerf
Forming triangles
What he said!
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It's just as simple as what your priorities are.
It all comes down to what you think simulation is, specially if we are in this forum.
I personally would rather support the team that has the right vision of football, despite not having as much money as the other to develop said vision.
While some might prefer the team that has the money and the ability to implement any vision and you are trying convince them your vision is the best, or maybe you already like the direction, which is not simulation, but a great Arcade game that takes itself too seriously.
PES 2008 and 2009 were horrible, and FIFA was the better sim in those times. I spent countless hours in MM with Cagliari in 08, great memories. 2010 was a horrible year, because EA decided 'lets open this to casual football fans aka gamers' and Konami had not gotten their things together, but at least decided on a vision. EA could have gone for the kill that year. This year, PES is by a mile the best simulation and it has technical short comings that must be addressed (AI intelligence, keepers, some ball physics and the collision detection) but the idea is there, you can see what Konami are aiming for, a simulation.
FIFA ironically could accomplish that vision in a heartbeat if they wanted to. Considering the technology they have, but the won't change the winning formula (by winning I mean sales) and we have all told them what they need to become a sim, and they won't do it. So screw EA until they see the light.
The day FIFA comes out with a simulation, I will be playing it. If they decide for the Arcadey game, its fine, I will also play, but don't sell it as a simulation of football. That is just morally wrong.
It all comes down to what you think simulation is, specially if we are in this forum.
I personally would rather support the team that has the right vision of football, despite not having as much money as the other to develop said vision.
While some might prefer the team that has the money and the ability to implement any vision and you are trying convince them your vision is the best, or maybe you already like the direction, which is not simulation, but a great Arcade game that takes itself too seriously.
PES 2008 and 2009 were horrible, and FIFA was the better sim in those times. I spent countless hours in MM with Cagliari in 08, great memories. 2010 was a horrible year, because EA decided 'lets open this to casual football fans aka gamers' and Konami had not gotten their things together, but at least decided on a vision. EA could have gone for the kill that year. This year, PES is by a mile the best simulation and it has technical short comings that must be addressed (AI intelligence, keepers, some ball physics and the collision detection) but the idea is there, you can see what Konami are aiming for, a simulation.
FIFA ironically could accomplish that vision in a heartbeat if they wanted to. Considering the technology they have, but the won't change the winning formula (by winning I mean sales) and we have all told them what they need to become a sim, and they won't do it. So screw EA until they see the light.
The day FIFA comes out with a simulation, I will be playing it. If they decide for the Arcadey game, its fine, I will also play, but don't sell it as a simulation of football. That is just morally wrong.
dannyfc2
Premier League
- 9 June 2009
^^^^^ This. This. This.
I championed FIFA 09 to some extent since all my mates wouldn't give it the time of day. Then when they finally did FIFA 10 & 11 were out and I'm left trying to drag them back over to PES.
I was completely taken in by the FIFA 11 hype. All those promises of individuality and PP+ and passing inaccuracies really made me think they were actually tailoring a game to the sim crowd. What a mug.
I championed FIFA 09 to some extent since all my mates wouldn't give it the time of day. Then when they finally did FIFA 10 & 11 were out and I'm left trying to drag them back over to PES.
I was completely taken in by the FIFA 11 hype. All those promises of individuality and PP+ and passing inaccuracies really made me think they were actually tailoring a game to the sim crowd. What a mug.
tc811
Resident Evo-Web Retard
Can any FIFA 08/ Euro 2008 experts remind us why those two games were getting such good remarks from the sim community? I had a great time with FIFA 09 but I know the 2008 versions were considered EA's best work before the developer behind that series left the team. Or something along those lines.
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Rob92
Guest
I'm in the same situation, my mates used to play PES, then I convinced them to get FIFA 09 and they've stuck with the series despite it's decline... Only one returning to PES this year.
The way EA marketed Pro Passing and Personality+, it almost seemed as if they were aiming it at sim-heads, it's not like either of those issues were ones complained about by the casuals... Strange.
I can see why people may think PES isn't executed particularly well and has a long way to go, but is FIFA's execution even any better? Overall, I think not.
I still play it from time to time. Imo first touch in Fifa 08, while not perfect, is much better. Because of this, the pace of the game feels better, as its not all that easy to trap and move in an instant like Fifa 11.
I'm not sure if its foot-planting or a better collision detection system, but the players feel like they have weight and connect with the ball better.
I believe if these 2 things were in Fifa 11, We would've had one hell of a game.
P.S. Even though movements are restricted and nothing to do with 360, it's still ok, well for me that is.
EDIT: Joe Booth was Fifa 08's producer. I'm not sure if he's the one responsible for Fifa 08's revolutionary gameplay, I'm talking Fifa-wise here, but if he was I hope at some point he joins Konami Europe or some other company willing to produce a football game to see what he can add.
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Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
FIFA 08 represented change more than anything, helped along at a time when Konami was at it's lowest ebb with the disgraceful PES2008. Looking back on it FIFA 08 is probably an inferior product to it's successors in most ways. It was sluggish with poor response times, and lacked the depth of animation that FIFA 09 had only a year later, but it was a pivotal game for the series that offered a slower, more considered approach to football compared to the fast, arcadey nature of all previous FIFA games.
Euro 2008 built on FIFA 08 with better response times and tighter gameplay, the best of the bunch if you ask me.
I was singing the praises of FIFA 08 at the time and converted a couple of my football gaming friends who were PES die-hards. Neither has come back to PES. I guess it's easy to get hooked in by the pretty animations, fluidity and licenses.
It would be interesting to know how different FIFA would be today (if at all) had Joe Booth remained the lead developer. As much as I dislike the smug, self-satisfied Rutter, I doubt he has much influence on the path FIFA takes. The game costs big money to make and needs to sell in big numbers as a result. It has to appeal to the widest audience possible in order to do so. This has always been EA's modus operandi and both Rutter and Booth probably had to toe the line in order to produce a game that appeals to the huge casual audience.
At least Seabass is very much in control of PES and can shape it how he sees fit. I think we've seen the best and worst of this over the last decade.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
I think the examples of hardcore fans converting all their mates to FIFA shows why we can’t be completely ignored. There tends to be one or two people in every group of 5-10 that can actually influence which way the group swings in these two horse races. Sometimes that will have a domino effect as other members of that group try and sway others. It’s why things like Clubs or PES’s community features are potentially very powerful – you can form cliques with mates and become a solid unit, locked in to one franchise or the other for more than one year.
As for how much influence Rutter and Booth really have on the way the game moves – not nearly as much as people think, IMO. I don’t think that the game would necessarily be vastly different had Booth stayed – I just think that a lot of people complained about how rigid FIFA 08 was (and it really was unresponsive as hell), and finding the solution to this over the next couple of years was approached in the wrong way. The most apparent problems with FIFA 08 also supplied a slower, more thought out game because they balanced out other problems. A bit like how Monty Burns had practically every illness and disease going, but there were so many that they crowded each other out and stopped any of them from killing him.
“So, what you’re saying is I’m indestructible.”
“Oh no no no, even a slight breeze could – “
“indestructible…”
When FIFA 09 came along (and FIFA 10 built on that), the problems with responsiveness were eliminated, but in doing so they upset the balance. I’m not convinced Booth would have stayed on top of things in that respect – I’m sure he’d have been somewhere between FIFA 08’s balance and where Rutter is now, but how close to either end of the spectrum I couldn’t say.
As for how much influence Rutter and Booth really have on the way the game moves – not nearly as much as people think, IMO. I don’t think that the game would necessarily be vastly different had Booth stayed – I just think that a lot of people complained about how rigid FIFA 08 was (and it really was unresponsive as hell), and finding the solution to this over the next couple of years was approached in the wrong way. The most apparent problems with FIFA 08 also supplied a slower, more thought out game because they balanced out other problems. A bit like how Monty Burns had practically every illness and disease going, but there were so many that they crowded each other out and stopped any of them from killing him.
“So, what you’re saying is I’m indestructible.”
“Oh no no no, even a slight breeze could – “
“indestructible…”
When FIFA 09 came along (and FIFA 10 built on that), the problems with responsiveness were eliminated, but in doing so they upset the balance. I’m not convinced Booth would have stayed on top of things in that respect – I’m sure he’d have been somewhere between FIFA 08’s balance and where Rutter is now, but how close to either end of the spectrum I couldn’t say.
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TikTikTikTikTik
*****
- 7 August 2004
- Liverpool
Can't the FSB blog track him down and do an interview? Would be an interesting read imo. Just his insights and goals, not necessarily a whinge about the newer FIFA's (although it wouldn't harm).
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
Well he still works for EA doesn't he? So he's only going to give answers that toe the company line so pretty pointless.
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Rob92
Guest
If FIFA 08 were more responsive and had less bugs, I don't necessarily think it would have been a great game... It was it's sluggishness and shortcomings that forced you to play a more considered game of football than it's successors rather than it's successful approach to the fundamentals of football.
Player individuality, variations in first touch, passing error etc. were all still pretty much non-existant.
PES5 was probably a better simulation in terms of the basics of football, although FIFA 08 was a welcome fresh approach with it's manual passing and more advanced physics.
Player individuality, variations in first touch, passing error etc. were all still pretty much non-existant.
PES5 was probably a better simulation in terms of the basics of football, although FIFA 08 was a welcome fresh approach with it's manual passing and more advanced physics.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
Yup. What they needed to do was take out the problems leading to unresponsiveness, AND replace those problems with deliberate, stat-based limitations. PES's dribbling setup is so much more sophisticated than FIFA because you can improvise so many little touches and feints without the player still having to adhere to limitations based on his stats. So, within its' own attack vs defence environment, it is responsive AND limited in the right balance.
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
Interesting...
nerf
Forming triangles
Who would pay for that 
I think it's only a matter of time before we see more of the video game industry moving over to subscription based content rather than one-off transactions, both in the software and hardware sectors. But preferably a service worth paying for, not a bunch of nothing like the above.
I think it's only a matter of time before we see more of the video game industry moving over to subscription based content rather than one-off transactions, both in the software and hardware sectors. But preferably a service worth paying for, not a bunch of nothing like the above.
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
I'd pay for it if the bonus content was a career mode that works and has some depth...
sincover
Championship
- 16 August 2010
Isn't that something you'd expect from the retail release?