FIFA 12 Discussion Thread

Ok, all this talk about a 'tackle' button. No system in any game for me has got it right and there's a lot of room for improvement from both games.

People hold up PES 5 as the best system but i disagree. I came to this conclusion after the PES 2011 demo and I'm saying this since if someone advise this to put in fifa keep this in mind.

With PES5 tackling system and the one used on the PES 2011 demo. When you play against your mate who does know how to play football games but is very new to PES. When you want to beat him by dropping a shoulder or in general dribbling past him. There are far too many times when i beat 2-3 of his men then he just taps you, gives a free kick away and in a sense gets away with it, since if the player was able to go on, i probably would've scored.

Problems being, every time you mistimed a tackle you gave away a foul. Making the game very stop, start and too hard to get and fluid attacks going! That was PES 5 with a genuine 'tackle' button.

Auto pressure or auto anything isn't the way but finding a way to have a tackling system which puts the art into defending is what we need to drum down.

I think a system where you keep :x: and :o: which is interception button and :circle: as the slide tackle button BUT!

If you tap :x: You try a light challenge, and attempt to just nick the ball away. If you get it wrong most likely the player will just brush you out of the way or at worst conceded a foul at a certain angle/situation etc..

If you Press or hold :x: you try a strong interception, time it right you win the ball with considerable but fair force (according to stats etc..) Get it wrong not only will you probably conceded a foul but you can be booked depending on how you foul, situation, persistent fouling etc..

Same with the :circle: button with slide tackles. Tap circle for an interception but you go to ground. (good for manual blocking, or basically a light interception with a bigger radius.) again if you it it wrong the opponent will most likely brush by you.

As for just running into players using Super cancel, sprinting or jogging the direction button, the situation and force you carrying into the opponent should be taken into consideration but that should be about timing it so you sprint into the player you foul him, and persistently doing it gets you a yellow. but if you run at the ball and manage to knock it away. Well done.

That system will make you have to really think about your choices when tackling and will put the art into defending.
 
I wonder how come the EU commitee didnt challenge the EA for the "exclusive" licensing de-facto creating a monopoly which is illegal in EU?
Which is punishable is not the monopoly situation itself, but what is legally called "abuse of a dominant position".

I guess it would be possible to sue EA for abusing of their dominant position but it's not in Konami's interest to do so because it would cast doubt on exclusivity which is for both firms a commercial weapon. By the way, it would have tremendous repercussions for all the video game sector, and I don't think they want it.

Anyway, I repeat it, it would be possible to take legal actions about this problem of exclusivity.
 
Ok, all this talk about a 'tackle' button. No system in any game for me has got it right and there's a lot of room for improvement from both games.

People hold up PES 5 as the best system but i disagree. I came to this conclusion after the PES 2011 demo and I'm saying this since if someone advise this to put in fifa keep this in mind.

With PES5 tackling system and the one used on the PES 2011 demo. When you play against your mate who does know how to play football games but is very new to PES. When you want to beat him by dropping a shoulder or in general dribbling past him. There are far too many times when i beat 2-3 of his men then he just taps you, gives a free kick away and in a sense gets away with it, since if the player was able to go on, i probably would've scored.

Problems being, every time you mistimed a tackle you gave away a foul. Making the game very stop, start and too hard to get and fluid attacks going! That was PES 5 with a genuine 'tackle' button.

Auto pressure or auto anything isn't the way but finding a way to have a tackling system which puts the art into defending is what we need to drum down.

I think a system where you keep :x: and :o: which is interception button and :circle: as the slide tackle button BUT!

If you tap :x: You try a light challenge, and attempt to just nick the ball away. If you get it wrong most likely the player will just brush you out of the way or at worst conceded a foul at a certain angle/situation etc..

If you Press or hold :x: you try a strong interception, time it right you win the ball with considerable but fair force (according to stats etc..) Get it wrong not only will you probably conceded a foul but you can be booked depending on how you foul, situation, persistent fouling etc..

Same with the :circle: button with slide tackles. Tap circle for an interception but you go to ground. (good for manual blocking, or basically a light interception with a bigger radius.) again if you it it wrong the opponent will most likely brush by you.

As for just running into players using Super cancel, sprinting or jogging the direction button, the situation and force you carrying into the opponent should be taken into consideration but that should be about timing it so you sprint into the player you foul him, and persistently doing it gets you a yellow. but if you run at the ball and manage to knock it away. Well done.

That system will make you have to really think about your choices when tackling and will put the art into defending.

Excellent post from top to bottom.
 
Which is punishable is not the monopoly situation itself, but what is legally called "abuse of a dominant position".

I guess it would be possible to sue EA for abusing of their dominant position but it's not in Konami's interest to do so because it would cast doubt on exclusivity which is for both firms a commercial weapon. By the way, it would have tremendous repercussions for all the video game sector, and I don't think they want it.

Anyway, I repeat it, it would be possible to take legal actions about this problem of exclusivity.

Konami would jump at the chance to get the Premier League and Bundesliga if that meant sharing the Champions League licence with FIFA. I've no doubt about that. It would be a win-win for both companies if you ask me.
 
Yep, and that's the point which has changed with FIFA 12 - in FIFA 12 you are going to choose precisely when to tackle, which I think is a great change. It's a pity that there are these concerns about the contain function, which I've said a fair few times I don't really think needs to exist!

Still, there is a fair while to go before this game releases, hopefully they'll heed the warnings about the contain.

My concern is that they replaced jockey with "contain" if you're inside that radius and that contain only allow you to move in two directions. It would be horrible if you're forced to mirror the other guy's movement if you want to defend facing the ball.

Edit: It's not ALL about money either according to Jon Murphy, he said that EA and the FA have been in bed with each other for a long time, they like what they have and don't feel the need to make any changes to it.
 
There's very little point in debating the merits of the new contain system until we get our hands on it. It might be terrible, it might be awesome, but likely it will be somewhere in-between.

All that we know for certain at this point is that the devs agreed with our poor assessment of defending in 11 and are attempting to move it in the general direction we've asked. That, I think we can all agree, is a positive move and a reason for a little optimism.
 
Which is punishable is not the monopoly situation itself, but what is legally called "abuse of a dominant position".

I guess it would be possible to sue EA for abusing of their dominant position but it's not in Konami's interest to do so because it would cast doubt on exclusivity which is for both firms a commercial weapon. By the way, it would have tremendous repercussions for all the video game sector, and I don't think they want it.

Anyway, I repeat it, it would be possible to take legal actions about this problem of exclusivity.

The CL and EL licences of KONAMI are a laughing stock... Just some music and videos oh and scoreboards and menus.... ALL USELESS stuff...
Without ALL the teams of these competitions it is pointless even to talk about KONAMI's exclusivity...
It would be a victory for KONAMI to share licences with EA...
 
they tell something about more variation in movement off the ball from your teammates?
i finally will see players like messi or xavi, or iniesta floating around the field or they still stuck in their positions like any other fifa?
this is the most unrealistic part of the fifa games but no one seems to care about this...
it´s so frustating...
 
The CL and EL licences of KONAMI are a laughing stock... Just some music and videos oh and scoreboards and menus.... ALL USELESS stuff...
Without ALL the teams of these competitions it is pointless even to talk about KONAMI's exclusivity...
It would be a victory for KONAMI to share licences with EA...

Agreed. The CL licence (while great) is undermined by the lack of competing teams and real stadia. Still, I firmly feel EA would jump at the chance to get it back. Remember, they cashed in on the Champions League licence by releasing a separate full-priced game. At least Konami integrated it into the one title.
 
they tell something about more variation in movement off the ball from your teammates?
i finally will see players like messi or xavi, or iniesta floating around the field or they still stuck in their positions like any other fifa?
this is the most unrealistic part of the fifa games but no one seems to care about this...
it´s so frustating...

I care a lot about this, shame EA don't :(
 
Ok, all this talk about a 'tackle' button. No system in any game for me has got it right and there's a lot of room for improvement from both games.

People hold up PES 5 as the best system but i disagree. I came to this conclusion after the PES 2011 demo and I'm saying this since if someone advise this to put in fifa keep this in mind.

With PES5 tackling system and the one used on the PES 2011 demo. When you play against your mate who does know how to play football games but is very new to PES. When you want to beat him by dropping a shoulder or in general dribbling past him. There are far too many times when i beat 2-3 of his men then he just taps you, gives a free kick away and in a sense gets away with it, since if the player was able to go on, i probably would've scored.

Problems being, every time you mistimed a tackle you gave away a foul. Making the game very stop, start and too hard to get and fluid attacks going! That was PES 5 with a genuine 'tackle' button.

Auto pressure or auto anything isn't the way but finding a way to have a tackling system which puts the art into defending is what we need to drum down.

I think a system where you keep :x: and :o: which is interception button and :circle: as the slide tackle button BUT!

If you tap :x: You try a light challenge, and attempt to just nick the ball away. If you get it wrong most likely the player will just brush you out of the way or at worst conceded a foul at a certain angle/situation etc..

If you Press or hold :x: you try a strong interception, time it right you win the ball with considerable but fair force (according to stats etc..) Get it wrong not only will you probably conceded a foul but you can be booked depending on how you foul, situation, persistent fouling etc..

Same with the :circle: button with slide tackles. Tap circle for an interception but you go to ground. (good for manual blocking, or basically a light interception with a bigger radius.) again if you it it wrong the opponent will most likely brush by you.

As for just running into players using Super cancel, sprinting or jogging the direction button, the situation and force you carrying into the opponent should be taken into consideration but that should be about timing it so you sprint into the player you foul him, and persistently doing it gets you a yellow. but if you run at the ball and manage to knock it away. Well done.

That system will make you have to really think about your choices when tackling and will put the art into defending.

Pretty graphics make me understand things :SHOCK:
 
It all of this looks great, besides the alien movement when in the 'contain' thing but EA have already been told about it so if by some weird miracle it remains in the game, they really need shot.

One of my other worries with this timing a tackle thing, while the idea is great how will it translate to the CPU on higher difficulties? will they consistently win the ball w/ every tackle? and online, how will it function there? It's a possibility people could just run at you tapping whichever button it is to time the tackle, and nine times out of ten get it right.

It pretty much needs to be perfect, but from their track record I'm a little worried. Maybe it's about time they got something right though.

I'm excited.
 
The CL and EL licences of KONAMI are a laughing stock... Just some music and videos oh and scoreboards and menus.... ALL USELESS stuff...
Without ALL the teams of these competitions it is pointless even to talk about KONAMI's exclusivity...
It would be a victory for KONAMI to share licences with EA...

Yes it would be a victory for sure, but unfortunately I doubt it will ever happen one day. We mustn't forget each organism can freely choose the way it sells its license (exclusivity, set price etc.) so it's not only a problem of dominant position.

If Konami haven't taken legal action against EA yet, it's probably because legally there's no option.
 
I have copied and pasted most of this from the my EA forum post because I'm lazy like that so please forgive :P

I think until we know the button implementation and how they are set up it's difficult to judge from a short video. Hopefully the play test will reveal everything.
I for one hope we still have the jockey system as contain is fine but there are times when you can't afford to stand-off, though maybe it's now the push/pull that was mentioned in the presentation and how these are implemented are key, if they do turn out to auto track the player; especially with the initial defender not so much the 2nd :square: called support, I'm sure we will all be disappointed.

It would also be nice to still have a separate shoulder button in order to accommodate what now seems a more complex system, as holding then releasing and then repressing the X button again to use the contain and then tackle seems awkward, especially when timing seems the key this time round!

As for the Push/Pull comment when close up, we are yet to learn if this is done automatically as part of the tackle process if not close enough to commit a challenge or is a separate operation, which I hope it is as this would be touch...
 
Hadn't realised there was a video. All that looks positive. Though I can't help worry for Clubs again. The ease that some players managed to 'shake-off' tackles there with relatively high skill is an excellent implementation, but it'll just get horrible with 90+ rated virtual pros.

Excited for this though, looks skill-based.
 
I pray that EA will have listened to the people who have complained about the gap between the 90 rated players and the generated players (it's my view of Club's biggest problems).
 
Clubs' biggest problem is the type of people who play it, but I suppose that's just online gaming these days (COD and FIFA being the worst for the maturity of their gamers).
 
I'm massively dissapointed by the fact that players can still dribble on their weak foot as well as on their strongest foot.When will EA realize that it's a joke not to have rectified this ? It's so fucking easy to spot !!!
 
I'm massively dissapointed by the fact that players can still dribble on their weak foot as well as on their strongest foot.When will EA realize that it's a joke not to have rectified this ? It's so fucking easy to spot !!!

I spotted it straight away! The dribbling still looks far too generic!
 
Clubs' biggest problem is the type of people who play it, but I suppose that's just online gaming these days (COD and FIFA being the worst for the maturity of their gamers).

Oh yes. I've been listening to some of the 'Back of the Net podcast' (this is not a recommendation - I was bored), and I was surprised at the way the people seem to consider FIFA as a game like CoD, suitable for montages. They see it as the 'new CoD' in that respect. This is quite a worrying precedent.

But, Clubs has a big advantage in that, by design, your teammates needn't be bastards. The problem is preventing asshole opponents from being a nightmare to play. I think someone (Romagnoli?) had come up with the idea of a filter so you wouldn't have to see the stupid celebrations, the green hair and so on.

EA have got a long way to go before Clubs feels like an authentic experience... I wonder if they even want it to be one?

I hope that PES gets their Clubs equivalent going ASAP, EA need some fire up their ass with this mode. It's time to stop going for big ticket features and instead make a game which works in the long term.
 
Oh yes. I've been listening to some of the 'Back of the Net podcast' (this is not a recommendation - I was bored), and I was surprised at the way the people seem to consider FIFA as a game like CoD, suitable for montages. They see it as the 'new CoD' in that respect. This is quite a worrying precedent.

I noticed this with FIFA 10. This is EA TRUE intentions for FIFA, the are using FIFA to try and beat COD in terms of sales. They WANT FIFA to be their number 1 game. I mean they have Battlefield but that games seems a bit more hardcore compared to COD and isn't as accessible as COD is. I can't see masses of casuals playing that game.

Looking at how arrogant EA as a company are. they just will not have it COD and Activision having the best selling game. They believe the way FIFA is set out they can beat it! Which is very possible in a casual sense since FIFA is very much the essential online game for anyone who has a 360 especially.

This explains why the AI is so shit. Clubs is a big mode for them and when the majority of players are controlled by humans, whats the point investing in off the ball AI? Their goal is to get casuals to create their player, go onto clubs and try and get their player to be the top ranked in the world and the gameplay seemed to be centered around that. Which is the same with COD. You take your player and try to be the best ranked!
 
Oh please. I can understand somewhat the similarities regarding the 'casuals' but both games have completely different intentions.

You go into COD knowing exactly what to expect. As long as no one is cheating I couldn't give a fuck whether they are 'casual' as you put it, hardcore military sim freaks or oily American teenagers. I will still enjoy the game (even if I have to mute a few of them).

With FIFA some go in playing the game as a simulation with some of the assists off while others play it like twats. This is even more apparent in Clubs when played with random players. This causes a major problem which you are trying to address albeit quite badly, as they are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PLAYING STYLES.

You simply don't get that with COD. Its one way. An enjoyable multiplayer FPS with some arcade elements attached. And this is coming from someone who dislikes the current COD games ever after 4.

Also don't go on about sales. FIFA would still sell loads even if it was more sim like. Everyone wants maximised sales. Its called good business.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Oh please. I can understand somewhat the similarities regarding the 'casuals' but both games have completely different intentions.

You go into COD knowing exactly what to expect. As long as no one is cheating I couldn't give a fuck whether they are 'casual' as you put it, hardcore military sim freaks or oily American teenagers. I will still enjoy the game (even if I have to mute a few of them).

With FIFA some go in playing the game as a simulation with some of the assists off while others play it like twats. This is even more apparent in Clubs when played with random players. This causes a major problem which you are trying to address albeit quite badly, as they are two COMPLETELY DIFFERENT PLAYING STYLES.

You simply don't get that with COD. Its one way. An enjoyable multiplayer FPS with some arcade elements attached. And this is coming from someone who dislikes the current COD games ever after 4.

I disagree. they are two completely different games. of course but looking at what each different game offers.

Shooting games have always been popular.

Football by a huge margin is the most popular sport in the world and even in countries where it's not the national sport, everyone knows about it and knows how to play.

Two completely different genres but both could provide a games which anyone could play.

Right now the main two things a game needs to sell shitloads is accessibility and online modes. These days people use offline modes almost as just training or obviously to play vs mates. Explains why every version of MM in FIFA on this generation from FIFA 08 till no has been shit!

The 'some', which includes us, who play football games for the simulation are far, far, FAR, FAR outweighed by casuals and even those who love football but don't take football games as a sim and play for the sake of it! That's why arcade elements make buisness sense.

Also don't go on about sales. FIFA would still sell loads even if it was more sim like. Everyone wants maximised sales. Its called good business.

Yes, in terms of giving you a choice but if it was a full on sim with little option for the arcade it will turn many people away. What we want is a choice to let the casuals have their arcade game and let us have our game. that's perfectly viable but EA int heir previous history seem to lack the knowledge on how to achieve a sim with FIFA which is the issue we are all discussing!
 
Last edited:
Sadly you haven't addressed the comparisons you made which I pointed out fall flat on your face.

COD isn't damaged by the different types of players whether played with random players or friends. If someone wants to play tactically it brings no disadvantage on their part to do so. Neither does playing as a 'Rambo' run 'n' gun merc.

However if you want to play FIFA with a simulation approach against a random opponent you are going to be on the weaker foot from the get go, what with the opponent using assisted controls and constant pressure and if they are a real wanker abusing cheap AI routines to score stuff like cutback goals or lobbed shots or via lofted through balls.

EA need to solve this situation as its clearly creating a division. Activision dont. The only time I have heard of people complaining about COD multiplayer is due to screaming Yanks or hardcoded cheats/exploits which are usually patched out.

Casual or not it makes no difference to Call of Duty. It sadly makes a huge difference to the FIFA franchise. Apples and Oranges.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Look here:
http://files.shareholder.com/downlo...473/Q4 FY Press Release with Press Tables.pdf

Fifa 11 has sold over 12 million units worldwide, that is already in the vicinity of COD sales. In general FIFA is EA's biggest selling franchise, eclipsing it's second biggest franchise, Battlefield.

EA makes shit tonnes of money with FIFA every year, in fact, it is one of the main reasons that the entire company is turning a $150 mil profit.

Want to wager a guess at how many of those 12+ million players are 'sim' players?
 
Last edited:
Having one unified control system (a la PES) would be a start. Offer a semi-manual control system as default with a manual modifier button.

Make everyone play the same game.

That would help hugely Jamez.
 
Actually you hit the muthafucking nail on the head there Jamez.

Make everyone play the same game.

Do we really want a choice in how we play the game? Wont an option for choice in turn create a chance for further division of the userbase?

Now I see people's aspirations due to games such as NBA, MLB and NHL which offer user customisable sliders. But I don't know what the online system is like for games like that. Is there a division between the hardcore and the casual players in those titles?

Should we ultimately be offered a choice? Can we handle it or will it just create an elitist attitude that further separates everyone.

I think a shot at unity is a better option. If everyone was playing the same game with the same exact adjustments and options then it would offer a much fairer game, apart from the obvious possible cheats and exploits.

I miss SWOS.
 
Actually you hit the muthafucking nail on the head there Jamez.

Make everyone play the same game.

Do we really want a choice in how we play the game? Wont an option for choice in turn create a chance for further division of the userbase?

I've been saying this for a while Billy. Sometimes there's such a thing as too much choice and maybe game designers should look to unite rather than fragment their userbase. FIFA has fragmented it's players with a wealth of assist options which means there's probably a hundred different configurations that people can use. So now you have the mainstream who never touch the assist settings, some like me who prefer semi-manual, and then a hardcore of manual only snobs, with a plethora of different configs in-between.

Everyone should be playing the same way and getting the same experience from the game if you ask me.
 
Back
Top Bottom