Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
EA tend to put the bells and whistles in before anything else, and don't give enough time to the fundamentals of the sport. This is true of most of their sports franchises (certainly Madden).
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Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3
- Thread starter jonneymendoza
- Start date
EA tend to put the bells and whistles in before anything else, and don't give enough time to the fundamentals of the sport. This is true of most of their sports franchises (certainly Madden).
I've played in that cut scene that occurs during a multiplayer match. It's pretty basic and boring. Pushing the right thumb stick left or right isn't exactly difficult. Not that i want them to make it realistic or anything but i usually save half the shots the other guy takes, if a goalkeeper in real life was playing against a player intent on scoring like that they'd be pretty lucky to make any save 1 v 1 with no defenders there to put the other player off.
I guess i didn't exactly feel so in control of the keeper's direction other than simply diving left or right either which is something i'd criticise about be a GK.
I guess i didn't exactly feel so in control of the keeper's direction other than simply diving left or right either which is something i'd criticise about be a GK.
daikirai
statement™
- 3 November 2003
Yes and that's exactly how it is. You can make your players pass to different areas (x and triangle I think) and shoot, but it's still basically you watching the ball be turned over in the midfield for 90 minutes. The goalie animations seem to be terribly slow too, at least in my opinion. So diving for a ball often ended up with me sitting on my ass and some jackass celebrating (when a shot was finally taken).
The only people who like Be a Goalkeeper like it because you can exploit it hideously by using the assisted setting, holding down LB, and mashing A to make perfect saves on Clubs.
Being a goalkeeper could work - but they need to go back to the drawing board for me, at least to get it to the point where the keeper actually dives as you indicate! At the moment, BaG is completely flawed, partially because of the AI keepers are so, so unrealistic (their reaction speeds are way too high and so on) and the shooting so accurate that you have to get to an impossible standard.
It shouldn't be impossible for a human to react fast enough and press the right direction - but it certainly is on FIFA.
Being a goalkeeper could work - but they need to go back to the drawing board for me, at least to get it to the point where the keeper actually dives as you indicate! At the moment, BaG is completely flawed, partially because of the AI keepers are so, so unrealistic (their reaction speeds are way too high and so on) and the shooting so accurate that you have to get to an impossible standard.
It shouldn't be impossible for a human to react fast enough and press the right direction - but it certainly is on FIFA.
daikirai
statement™
- 3 November 2003
I've been playing a CM as manager with a friend of mine, and we've been having fun, played as Roma our first one, always on World Class. We were fired about 15 games into our second season, we barely made Europa League our first, and our second we managed about one win in 8 or so games, but won all of our Europa League games. We even won the game after we found out we were up for review so I'm not sure what the basis for that is. I've kept my job after losing three more after getting the warning.
We're playing as Spurs now and having some fun, although the cheap AI tactics are annoying. Friend is bringing the ball through the middle with Modric, so I switch to VDV or Defoe, I'm zigging and zagging trying to make some space and the defender just mirrors me, with zero error. Then I finally make a diagonal run, defender hits his own man and gives me space, friend makes the pass and my first touch is hard, another defender makes it from the opposite side of the field to snatch it and boot it downfield, to his teammate
We're playing as Spurs now and having some fun, although the cheap AI tactics are annoying. Friend is bringing the ball through the middle with Modric, so I switch to VDV or Defoe, I'm zigging and zagging trying to make some space and the defender just mirrors me, with zero error. Then I finally make a diagonal run, defender hits his own man and gives me space, friend makes the pass and my first touch is hard, another defender makes it from the opposite side of the field to snatch it and boot it downfield, to his teammate
Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Team
- Luton Town
I've been playing a CM as manager with a friend of mine, and we've been having fun, played as Roma our first one, always on World Class. We were fired about 15 games into our second season, we barely made Europa League our first, and our second we managed about one win in 8 or so games, but won all of our Europa League games. We even won the game after we found out we were up for review so I'm not sure what the basis for that is. I've kept my job after losing three more after getting the warning.
We're playing as Spurs now and having some fun, although the cheap AI tactics are annoying. Friend is bringing the ball through the middle with Modric, so I switch to VDV or Defoe, I'm zigging and zagging trying to make some space and the defender just mirrors me, with zero error. Then I finally make a diagonal run, defender hits his own man and gives me space, friend makes the pass and my first touch is hard, another defender makes it from the opposite side of the field to snatch it and boot it downfield, to his teammate
Welcome to the stat boosting, 'impossibly-perfect-to-the-point-of-artificially-cheating' world of FIFA defending!
Nick Cave
Wrexham fan for my sins...
daikirai
statement™
- 3 November 2003
Yea I've noticed it since I've had the game, but it's amazing because now I'm showing my friend all of these little things the CPU does that just make it impossible to play properly.
nerf
Forming triangles
Two things are getting my goat most of all, at the moment.
One is the amount of BS that goes on with the trajectory of the ball. All types of passes, in the air or on the ground, are modified horribly by this magnetic/gravitational pull that players exert on the ball. Deflected shots never fall loose, they are always diverted to a nearby player. Even first touches are influenced now and then, making them just heavy enough to carry through to an opponent. You can rarely force a pass beyond the last defender without it being sucked to him.
I'd love to see what the game would be like with this 'feature' switched off. That's the whole point of manual controls, to have the freedom to put the ball where you want. The game doesn't allow you to do that - why? I understand that there's some logic to making very short, fiddly passes a little bit assisted, but the amount of BS that goes on, particularly with lob passes, clearances and deflections, is waaaay more than necessary and goes beyond the point of being detrimental.
Free the ball, I say. The fundamental building block of pretty much any ball sport is the very fact that the ball bounces, spins and is by its nature unpredictable and elusive. FIFA plays more like 22 magnets around a ball-bearing at times.
The other thing is those many little 'hiccups' in animation or control. Occasions when you press a button and, for whatever combination of reasons, the expected action doesn't happen. Most notably when you want to head clear a cross but your defender just stands or stumbles instead. Sometimes I might try to trap or turn on the ball and my player will freak out for a moment, stuttering as he seems to momentarily lose the ball between his feet. Or you pass to your winger on the touchline and he stutter-steps while the ball rolls past and out of play. Or your goalkeeper watches a cross sail towards his arms, under no pressure... and just flaps the ball up into the danger area when he should have known he had a free, easy catch. Those little accidental moments where things f**k up, which are clearly bugs rather than intentionally part of the gameplay. I hope they work on cleaning those up for 12.
One is the amount of BS that goes on with the trajectory of the ball. All types of passes, in the air or on the ground, are modified horribly by this magnetic/gravitational pull that players exert on the ball. Deflected shots never fall loose, they are always diverted to a nearby player. Even first touches are influenced now and then, making them just heavy enough to carry through to an opponent. You can rarely force a pass beyond the last defender without it being sucked to him.
I'd love to see what the game would be like with this 'feature' switched off. That's the whole point of manual controls, to have the freedom to put the ball where you want. The game doesn't allow you to do that - why? I understand that there's some logic to making very short, fiddly passes a little bit assisted, but the amount of BS that goes on, particularly with lob passes, clearances and deflections, is waaaay more than necessary and goes beyond the point of being detrimental.
Free the ball, I say. The fundamental building block of pretty much any ball sport is the very fact that the ball bounces, spins and is by its nature unpredictable and elusive. FIFA plays more like 22 magnets around a ball-bearing at times.
The other thing is those many little 'hiccups' in animation or control. Occasions when you press a button and, for whatever combination of reasons, the expected action doesn't happen. Most notably when you want to head clear a cross but your defender just stands or stumbles instead. Sometimes I might try to trap or turn on the ball and my player will freak out for a moment, stuttering as he seems to momentarily lose the ball between his feet. Or you pass to your winger on the touchline and he stutter-steps while the ball rolls past and out of play. Or your goalkeeper watches a cross sail towards his arms, under no pressure... and just flaps the ball up into the danger area when he should have known he had a free, easy catch. Those little accidental moments where things f**k up, which are clearly bugs rather than intentionally part of the gameplay. I hope they work on cleaning those up for 12.
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Hi, I'm Not attacking you it's just i never understand how people can't see how bad the game is in terms of being a sim, they have to use manual and have to play against a mate who confines to only play in, pretty much just 'one style' which is deemed realistic.
So you are obligated to slow build up for the sake of realsim? Your also obligated not to use pressure?
You also obligated not to use any extreme formations?
So in essence your playing a very predictable game still? I mean i did this with FIFA 09 with this very good finish player, but all the matches where enjoyable but still unrealistic since every god dam match was the exact same thing.
We knew where to score from, where you can't and can score from and structured our attacks not to be free because freedom gets you nowhere in this game. it was the same story with 10 and is with 11!
I don't see the point bothering in limiting the game to the extreme and playing a rather predictable version of football. I'd just play it on the default settings and not take it seriously at all, while blazing a fat one in the way EA made it to be played, the same way the 5 year kids and your girlfirends who knows nothing about football plays it since that's who EA seem to target it seems.
That's the best way to enjoy FIFA, with a group of friends and bag of green! No worrying about cheapness etc.. blah, blah, blah. Just play while having a laugh
People say FIFA has bad AI, it dosen't have bad teammate AI! This is because there isn't any AI there to be called 'bad' in the first place.
There is no AI for you or the CPU teams to actually function even in basic terms as a football team would do. The defensive line does not work together at all! the midfield dosen't bother to run back help the defence at all.
Hence its so easy to get into the box with so few defenders around you. Even with the mad pressure. it's like everytime your in the box from a run of play attack the DM or other midfielders are nowhere to be seen!
Every attack is a counter. Do we even need to mention the Personality - or should i say +
wasn't it obvious since kobayashi is in my old advatar.As a game FIFA is 7.5 out of 10! It's fluid and playable, but has too many bugs and it's a little unbalanced and has shortcomings in that respect. The presentation while cartoon like and plastic is very good, very easy to pick up and play and offers a good few things to do online. So it's a good game just about!
As a football sim, i don't think it deserves a rating out of ten because there aren't enough sim aspects in the product! Take the best part of the game in 'the animations' they are great in their technology but pretty bad in their execution. They move like they are skating on ice and bump into each over and jostle as if it's some sort of animated WWE sketch. In general most of the animations especially some of the crossing and shooting ones are just over the top. Just looks so fake and frankly ridiculous. Then again, they would be better if the function behind them was used in simulation terms rather than to look pretty and super, over the top slick for purely aesthetic terms.
BTW can someone tell me whats up with Cristiano's animations they are diabolical! Just crazy, he runs so weird, it's like, i mean i don't know... like a alien the way he moves, shuffles really quickly
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daikirai
statement™
- 3 November 2003
I think the lack of loose balls isn't do to the ball being trajectory being scripted, but the players having immediate reaction time. Like you said you can't pass beyond a defender, because he will immediately move to meet the ball, it doesn't matter if it requires a change of direction (at full speed no less).
It's really making the game boring for me. I can't play a nice ball to beat a defender when he knows where it's going before I even do. Or he's about to be beaten by a run and just turns, nudges my player off the ball and clears it up field.
That's another thing I hate, the sometimes miraculous clearances the cpu makes. For whatever reason when I hit clear the ball goes just outside the box, or a bit further. But when the CPU does it they blast it to the halfway line up to a lone forward who comes down with it with three defenders surrounding him.
Fuck FIFA. I'm renting 12, or waiting for a friend to get it, unless it blows my balls off I'm not buying it.
It's really making the game boring for me. I can't play a nice ball to beat a defender when he knows where it's going before I even do. Or he's about to be beaten by a run and just turns, nudges my player off the ball and clears it up field.
That's another thing I hate, the sometimes miraculous clearances the cpu makes. For whatever reason when I hit clear the ball goes just outside the box, or a bit further. But when the CPU does it they blast it to the halfway line up to a lone forward who comes down with it with three defenders surrounding him.
Fuck FIFA. I'm renting 12, or waiting for a friend to get it, unless it blows my balls off I'm not buying it.
What gave it away mostly was your reference to the fact that you need a bag of green to enjoy Fifa, which i have heard you say before. It is a perfectly reasonable comment to make.
daikirai
statement™
- 3 November 2003
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Looks good man
I wasn't hiding i've just forgotten my password for my other account a i can't be arsed to get it back.
I wasn't hiding i've just forgotten my password for my other account a i can't be arsed to get it back.Hi, I'm Not attacking you it's just i never understand how people can't see how bad the game is in terms of being a sim, they have to use manual and have to play against a mate who confines to only play in, pretty much just 'one style' which is deemed realistic.
So you are obligated to slow build up for the sake of realsim? Your also obligated not to use pressure?
You also obligated not to use any extreme formations?
So in essence your playing a very predictable game still? I mean i did this with FIFA 09 with this very good finish player, but all the matches where enjoyable but still unrealistic since every god dam match was the exact same thing.
We knew where to score from, where you can't and can score from and structured our attacks not to be free because freedom gets you nowhere in this game. it was the same story with 10 and is with 11!
I don't see the point bothering in limiting the game to the extreme and playing a rather predictable version of football. I'd just play it on the default settings and not take it seriously at all, while blazing a fat one in the way EA made it to be played, the same way the 5 year kids and your girlfirends who knows nothing about football plays it since that's who EA seem to target it seems.
That's the best way to enjoy FIFA, with a group of friends and bag of green! No worrying about cheapness etc.. blah, blah, blah. Just play while having a laugh
People say FIFA has bad AI, it dosen't have bad teammate AI! This is because there isn't any AI there to be called 'bad' in the first place.
There is no AI for you or the CPU teams to actually function even in basic terms as a football team would do. The defensive line does not work together at all! the midfield dosen't bother to run back help the defence at all.
Hence its so easy to get into the box with so few defenders around you. Even with the mad pressure. it's like everytime your in the box from a run of play attack the DM or other midfielders are nowhere to be seen!
Every attack is a counter. Do we even need to mention the Personality - or should i say +
I didnt take as you were attacking me I just enjoy it in this mode and I feel as Ive got more than my moneys worth and Im still playing it. To say that there's places where you can score certain goals, well I haven't come across them on manual and I dont want to know where they are if they exist.
When it comes to do I want a simualtor or a game I can pick up and enjoy with a challenge then I want the latter. Ive been playing footie games since the early 90's and followed the ISS series through from the SNES to PES 2008. I've got PES 2011 but something is missing.
The thing is with simulation is how far you want to go. As an extreme example if messy is through 1 on 1 should he score 9 times out of 10 because that's what he would do in real life or do you want an element of control, some human error like manual gives you? It can be argued all day long from many angles but at the end of the day its what you enjoy.
I understand, i get the whole 'gamer' element that manual has over PES. Manual does require more skill than assisted and you can show off your own style more and there's more freedom with those defence spitting passes which aren't possible on assisted.
for me, like i said I'm different, as i don't really consider myself a gamer, I'm think i prefer a game where it's more about using the individuals and the strengths they have to the teams best ability. I also bit more considered to the tactical element of football.
Just wonder what you think about how much tactics could be improved in FIFA because for me their basically almost non existent. Something EA has so much to work on and something in terms of skills which is very substantial.
For example with PES online, I won this match 2-0 using Argentina beating Brazil. This guy was trying to 'abuse' Robinho down the left flank. What i was happy about was the tactical element of me simply Moving Jonas back so he didn't bomb forward leaving space for him and stick mascherano on him with man marking, when Masch was booked i swapped sides with Veron with the man marking. Little things like that, really using your brain to outhink your opponent tactically, i see it as very much a skill.
For me to do this took, about I'd say 10 seconds to sort out on FIFA you can't create new formations at ALL when ingame online because of the dreadful formation interface. Just wondered if you would prefer the current more pure on the pitch balance or would you welcome the game to have a more tactical element to it?
Yeah I would deffinately look to improve the tactics element along with other things. It's difficult becuase PES does some things really well and FIFA does other things really well.
From a personal point of view the main things i would fix in fifa is
- Get rid of the automated tackles and the barging into people to pinch the ball
- Better Tactics as you have said
- Teams to play like their real counterparts - sometimes its hard to see the differneces
- More random ball phsics - deflections etc
theres probably more
To make me switch to PES
- Better animations and collision detection
-Full manual controls (option)
- Better atmosphere - people will disagree but for me its dull
- Fully Customisable camera
- Fix the goal keepers
-Player switching improvement
Typed really fast so sorry for any bad grammer
They are possible on assisted, it's a matter of who should be attempting them and when.....its too easy which is the problem.
What you are is an "honest" gamer. I play default teams, formations, and tactics. If I want to play a 433 or a defensive 451 I will use a team that does that.
I prefer to play football, not a game of out positioning my opponent. Until games become more fluid in terms of positioning. All custom formations feel rigid and exploitable.
Oh they exist and are way to formal/rigid which makes them work.
If they didn't work a 7-0-3 wouldnt of worked in FIFA 10 but it did..............why because that tactic works for say stoke, put 3 top players up top and the perfect passing mechanic and it will consistently work.
Tactics actually play too much of a part in FIFA at the moment with limited stamina and gravitational ball physics. This doesnt make it a sim, merely highlights the fact that tactics are there and make more difference than you would think.
Im not sure where this really differs from FIFA? Ok the man marking element has gone in online play but basically your saying you played a slightly defensive posture? with the onus on counter attacking?
I guess, where we differ is I want more fluid and realistic on the pitch formations. I hate the fact that any given point a player will be where I expect them. There is no covering deep runs, no defenders moving higher just the old gun and run.
I don't care what a manager says and the positions people are given, through out a match these will change, I mean seriously if Lennon has to come back and play inside I don't expect a player to go cover the place he should be, I expect players to start coming short and a full back to either get involved or a midfielder to want the ball to move it around.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
I would say that the tactics behind football are very much about chasing space around the pitch! Though I see your point about how tactics are not meant to be so literal.
The players in PES behave in more or less exactly the way you want them to in FIFA, Glen. PES does have one or two problems in terms of player movement but generally the game is so much more fluid in terms of forward runs, moves infield, dropping deep to pick up their man etc. When you move a player to particular positions on the formation screen, you aren't defining exactly where they'll be on the pitch at all times - by pushing a fullback further forward or by moving a defensive midfielder further wide, you are instructing how the player actually carries out their role and who they look to pick up. In that respect, and in terms of how players understand what defensive runs they're meant to make, AND in terms of the way attributes and cards affect player behaviour, PES is so much further ahead. Even if FIFA copied PES's formation interface across directly, the player AI still wouldn't allow as deep and rewarding a tactical experience.
As an aside I just don't get how sticking to default formations would be seen as a purist or authentic way of playing a football game. Time-saving? Forced upon you by a horrendous interface? Sure. But I can't think of a high profile side that has gone all year without a second, third, maybe even fourth formation. Except Inter and Arsenal perhaps - and Inter are managed by a nice guy but hopeless tactician, while Arsene Wenger is notoriously lacking in plan B's and routinely gets outdone by those who do.
The players in PES behave in more or less exactly the way you want them to in FIFA, Glen. PES does have one or two problems in terms of player movement but generally the game is so much more fluid in terms of forward runs, moves infield, dropping deep to pick up their man etc. When you move a player to particular positions on the formation screen, you aren't defining exactly where they'll be on the pitch at all times - by pushing a fullback further forward or by moving a defensive midfielder further wide, you are instructing how the player actually carries out their role and who they look to pick up. In that respect, and in terms of how players understand what defensive runs they're meant to make, AND in terms of the way attributes and cards affect player behaviour, PES is so much further ahead. Even if FIFA copied PES's formation interface across directly, the player AI still wouldn't allow as deep and rewarding a tactical experience.
As an aside I just don't get how sticking to default formations would be seen as a purist or authentic way of playing a football game. Time-saving? Forced upon you by a horrendous interface? Sure. But I can't think of a high profile side that has gone all year without a second, third, maybe even fourth formation. Except Inter and Arsenal perhaps - and Inter are managed by a nice guy but hopeless tactician, while Arsene Wenger is notoriously lacking in plan B's and routinely gets outdone by those who do.
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Gab_
I agree
- 6 April 2009
One thing that I think PES does much better than FIFA is accuracy errors. Thing is in FIFA you can't completely mess up a shot, it's always in a certain error marginal. I messed around in the Arena with default player as Kaka, and every shot is exactly the same. It applies an error between maybe 1-2 meters but that's it. In PES the player can mess up so sometimes he mis hit the ball that it goes in the opposite side of goal than you aimed at, even good players can mess up.
So even if FIFA makes the error accuracy broader in next FIFA, it will probably be this kind of "scripted" error that is very predictable. Same with keeper saves, it feels like you've seen the outcome of the direction the ball i parried a million times before. It's a little bit different but does feel like they apply this "scripted" outcome here too. Like parry this direction and apply random difference between 0 and 3, if you know what I mean.
Edit: Now that I think about it. If you remember the video that Patterson released where they showed pro passing/personality+, it was quite clear in that too. It showed a player with high skill shooting and one with low skill shooting. And the players always hit the target with a certain range or error. They never really messed up from what I can remember, and the only difference was that the "hard coded" possibility in error was greater for the low skilled player. I mean it has a "maximum error" value and that's what I really don't like. One could argue that it is easy to hit shots like that under no pressure, but I bet it is exactly the same outcome while playing the game.
So even if FIFA makes the error accuracy broader in next FIFA, it will probably be this kind of "scripted" error that is very predictable. Same with keeper saves, it feels like you've seen the outcome of the direction the ball i parried a million times before. It's a little bit different but does feel like they apply this "scripted" outcome here too. Like parry this direction and apply random difference between 0 and 3, if you know what I mean.
Edit: Now that I think about it. If you remember the video that Patterson released where they showed pro passing/personality+, it was quite clear in that too. It showed a player with high skill shooting and one with low skill shooting. And the players always hit the target with a certain range or error. They never really messed up from what I can remember, and the only difference was that the "hard coded" possibility in error was greater for the low skilled player. I mean it has a "maximum error" value and that's what I really don't like. One could argue that it is easy to hit shots like that under no pressure, but I bet it is exactly the same outcome while playing the game.
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R
Rob92
Guest
Yeah, in PES if you try an awkward first-time shot with a poor player, it's not uncommon for the ball to be competely mishit and go out for a throw! Just proves manual control isn't needed, especially for shooting - relevant error based upon the situation is much preferred for me, and rewards people who know the game of football well, rather than pinpoint-precise hardcore gamers.
Agree with rom, the positioning is so much more realistic - sometimes the AI fails to exploit spaces that they should, but it's way ahead of FIFA in terms of general positioning, and how different players (based mainly on their mentality/cards, plus their "attack", "defence" and "aggression" attributes) will play in the same role/position.
Agree with rom, the positioning is so much more realistic - sometimes the AI fails to exploit spaces that they should, but it's way ahead of FIFA in terms of general positioning, and how different players (based mainly on their mentality/cards, plus their "attack", "defence" and "aggression" attributes) will play in the same role/position.
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True
What your saying is very reasonable but you misunderstanding my point, i should of made it a little more clear.
Tactically when i say FIFA is non existent tactically, I mean in terms of the game being a sim and a realistic representation of football the use od tactics are non existent. Not that they don't work physically in the game.
Your right the tactics atm are too rigid and are built for exploiting more than anything. My point is tactics aren't there to be used like in a game of chess, for example like my point below:
simple things like if you see your opponent has an advantage or just in his formation setup in maybe one of his players needs special attention and there's a way to nullify his attack. On PES like in real life you can adapt to his formation quickly, if you do and you go on to win the match becaus of it, thats very much a skill.
In FIFA because of the arcadey game balance and shit interface and general gameplay. basically if an opponent has an advantage because of his formation or a player need to be man marked etc.. Your basically fucked online. Offline isn't an issue since the CPU is a joke.
What I'm saying is i stuck to my same default formation, just tweaked it quickly so Jonas was more defensive and Mascherano was man marking Robinho so his primary attacks were nullified.
Thats what PES 2011 offers, what FIFA dosen't. It's so rigid and broken in FIFA 11 that DM's actually STOP from running back into the back 4 and helping out to preserve the rigidness, its why every attacks is basically a counter in FIFA because there is ZERO depth to it at all!
PES formtions are dynamic 50% due to instructions and structure of the formation and tactics and 50% due tot he players individuality. So you could give Manchester united and Arsenal the same exact formation and tactics but they will still perform differently!
nerf
Forming triangles
Off the ball movement in PES is... yuck. Sprinting in straight lines, suddenly stopping dead for no reason, three teammates bunching up in the same place, not making the effort to create passing angles, and all 22 players crowding the central channels rather than using the full width of the pitch.
On the subject of tactics being too rigid or not rigid enough, I imagine there's a fairly difficult balance to find there between making tactical instructions tangible enough to mean something, but not making the positioning of players too static and predictable.
I think perhaps the most important factor is the behaviour of each individual player according to their character. Subbing out a Box-to-Box CM and replacing him with a Ball Winner CDM has to make a difference, even if the position and instructions don't change.
On the subject of tactics being too rigid or not rigid enough, I imagine there's a fairly difficult balance to find there between making tactical instructions tangible enough to mean something, but not making the positioning of players too static and predictable.
I think perhaps the most important factor is the behaviour of each individual player according to their character. Subbing out a Box-to-Box CM and replacing him with a Ball Winner CDM has to make a difference, even if the position and instructions don't change.
Jamezinho
Golden Boot Winner
Placebo
Ԁlɐɔǝqo
I've hit many awkwardly balanced/under pressure shots in Fifa11 that have gone extremely wayward (including for a throw in) and that's just on semi shooting.
romagnoli
Misses Retri
- 7 August 2004
I've found none of that to be true beyond reasonable levels, over several months of playing the game. Maybe the straight lines if you include diagonal runs, but a dangerous diagonal run into space is far more useful than a curved run that is tracked 1:1 by a defender who is clinically 4 yards away. Milner has been a great right back for me, cutting inside to get in on goal pith action, Adriano Correia is a great runner who loves to get chalk on his boots, while Pedro Munitis does a terrific job as a floating forward, making runs from deep or dragging the opposition DM out of position with his movement. I remember when Erdinç was injured for me and I had to play both Jovetic and Munitis as second strikers with no targetman. I was surprised at how well it worked, with both players taking turns to drop deep and my wingmen bombing on into space.
PES does have certain issues with movement but as a whole it is so far ahead in terms of representing formations, player runs and the tactical side of football as a whole, that it just isn't funny. If FIFA could get itself up to PeS 2011's level by FIFA 14 I'll be astounded.