Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

All it tells me is that the people he's playing against can't defend. Their idea of defending seems to be to sprint directly at an agile dribbler. The game provides a jockey button, maybe they should use it.

Some good left-stick work with the ball though.
 
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nerf said:
All it tells me is that the people he's playing against can't defend. Their idea of defending seems to be to sprint directly at an agile dribbler. The game provides a jockey button, maybe they should use it.

Some good left-stick work with the ball though.
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I applaud him. I think he did do very well to dribble past those payers without using tricks and i like that he want's to score. proper realistic looking goals. I prefer those goals to the skill monkeys who basically do the same thing over and over again (Trick + trick + Trick + finesse shot/45 degree shot = goal)

Well done man :) (videogames in HD) :BOP:

However it's true the defending is absolutely shocking! Still the game balance is shit, he's doing that for the sake of it. it's not an effective way at all in passing players since anyone who knows the basic of defending would had tackled him with ease!
 
Yeah, to be fair it's not that the guy filming the goals was in the wrong. It's the movement of the dribbling that is plain wrong, and the defending is an absolute joke. It's hard to be that impressed when defenders are sprinting off into the distance. It doesn't matter how realistic the animations and collisions are if what transpires on the pitch is this far removed from reality.

Edit: the passing and the general tempo of the game too. It just doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Only so much of this can be blamed on the other user.
 
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Also notice how you ALWAYS end up in the same FUCKING zone all the time when scoring. I swear this game has some serious work to do on balancing the shooting and general attempt on target function.

It's always, 'get to this zone here and finesse with x amount of power = 100% chance of goal'. No shooting when you feel the balance is right regardless of you angle. no having a go. You must shoot in certain area's to score.

FIFA is still built on a PS1/PS2 ideology despite all the great tech. Scripted goals we see in the extreme in FIFA 10/11 etc.. i don't expect on this generation, PS1, fine, PS2 ok but with all the tech you have now and still we see a game which you can only score from certain zones?

They just don't think broadly or what next gen could bring to the table with balancing a football game. These kids, these skill monkeys, can they see they are just scoring the same carbon copy goals over and over again but changing the tricks they do before scoring the scripted goal?

the keepers as well. It's like they 'know' the script says this is a goal and let the ball in when they could save it, and save shots which are deemed 'goal'.
 
Ignoring position and general dribble control, most of the goals and dribbles are down to second press (watch te defenders stop) and player switching in defense. The reason players run sways is because the opponent is holding second press an keeper in one of goals.

Mostly it's because of the way you can 'preempt' second press controlled players and or humans by just walking instead of sprinting. Online it creates an amazing way to play cheap gamers like the 532 man city guy in the vid.

The problem is the ai expects/reacts to it which neuters the experience somewhat offline.

I like the video because it shows how tackle and auto second press button spamming doesn't need to be countered with ping pong lob throughballs et al

Granted a fuckload of work needs to be done but it shows the engine is more flexible and considerate of things like tackle radius and simple pace/direction changes than a lot of people mention.
 
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:P

smugsouthpark.gif
 
It's interesting to see that guy has posted a similar PES video or two in the video thread, all online, and you can see just how the two games make the same player play. His PES goals are mainly lon range strikes after a passing build up, maybe the odd drop of a shoulder here or there to beat a defender, but largely he knows that in PES you beat maybe a couple of men before releasing the ball. Compare that to the FIFA video, the fact that he can make his players perform impossibly fast 90, 180 and even 360 degree turns with no sense of weight to the player's body shows how much of a parody FIFA has become.

Seriously, compare the two, FIFA looks utterly ridiculous.
 
kobayashi said:
Also notice how you ALWAYS end up in the same FUCKING zone all the time when scoring. I swear this game has some serious work to do on balancing the shooting and general attempt on target function.

It's always, 'get to this zone here and finesse with x amount of power = 100% chance of goal'. No shooting when you feel the balance is right regardless of you angle. no having a go. You must shoot in certain area's to score.

FIFA is still built on a PS1/PS2 ideology despite all the great tech. Scripted goals we see in the extreme in FIFA 10/11 etc.. i don't expect on this generation, PS1, fine, PS2 ok but with all the tech you have now and still we see a game which you can only score from certain zones?

They just don't think broadly or what next gen could bring to the table with balancing a football game. These kids, these skill monkeys, can they see they are just scoring the same carbon copy goals over and over again but changing the tricks they do before scoring the scripted goal?

the keepers as well. It's like they 'know' the script says this is a goal and let the ball in when they could save it, and save shots which are deemed 'goal'.
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This is all true. The difference between finesseing and shooting has no relation to the physics or momentum of the ball at all. If you finesse it you probably will are 3/4/5 more likely to score compared to blasting it, even if that blasted shot should be impossible to save. EA know most of these issues arise from the ineptitude of the defensive AI anyway because the scripted goalkeepers are obviously deliberately put in there to stop goals getting into double figures due to the stupidly high amount of 1 v 1 situations that you are able to achieve in any given match. The problem used to worse though i believe, i had many games in Fifa 10 where it got to a certain point and the game wouldn't allow me to score anymore (mostly when i was 5 goals in front or something). The GK of the other team simple became unstoppable whereas before he acted normal. It's not a case of me expecting to score, just on average when your striker isn't able to score from 8/9 1v1s anymore, even though the shots are on target, you start to notice that something doesn't seem right.

I honestly believe that they fixed the issue of scripting to an extent in 11 compared to 10. That video highlights how you can score 1 v 1s where the ball goes near to the keeper and still results in a goal. In 10 this was basically unseen, every goal had to put in the corner. Again though in relation to my point above, even in 11 it only happens up to a certain point and then the scripting kicks in.

LTFC said:
It's interesting to see that guy has posted a similar PES video or two in the video thread, all online, and you can see just how the two games make the same player play. His PES goals are mainly lon range strikes after a passing build up, maybe the odd drop of a shoulder here or there to beat a defender, but largely he knows that in PES you beat maybe a couple of men before releasing the ball. Compare that to the FIFA video, the fact that he can make his players perform impossibly fast 90, 180 and even 360 degree turns with no sense of weight to the player's body shows how much of a parody FIFA has become.

Seriously, compare the two, FIFA looks utterly ridiculous.
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Personally i think his videos makes long range goals in PES look ridiculous too, mainly due to how often they happen and easy they look. You can call it a highlight video of the best goals but we've all played the game and know how easy they are to score. They need to sort it so long shots are much more likely to balloon away or swerve off target than be like a straight bullet heading towards goal. I'm not saying it shouldn't happen but it shouldn't happen anywhere near as often and the way that it's always a dead bullet shot just goes against how most long shots are actually scored in reality i.e they have swerve or dip. There's a lot of daisy cutters too and i'm struggling to think of many examples of daisy cutter goals i've seen of late. I actually had a dream about it the other night where i kept thinking it was too easy to score long range shots. Kind of an odd dream to have.
 
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I agree - FIFA has too many 1 v 1's and too many shots on target and consequently, too many shots being saved. Realistically, I think FIFA's assisted settings remove too much of the impact that a player's stats should have and the player's positioning, where the ball is etc.

I also agree to an extent with the PES criticisms, the ball physics aren't perfect and you can score a lot of long rangers. But I also see my fair share of long rangers miss the target or get saved. And on the harder settings, it's not as easy to create those chances. The ones that do go in, from my perspective, do look realistic most of the time.

FIFA's shooting in FIFA 11 has too much dip. Sometimes it looks good but other times it looks out of context and it's like a magnet in the crossbar is sucking the ball down. PES shooting doesn't have realistic dip unfortunately...you see the occassional shot loop in over a keeper instead of dipping at pace. I have seen some swerve though on some of my shots...but neither game has it close enough to reality.

Watch the last angle on this replay and you see the ball swerve inside the post:
YouTube - Khedira long range screamer on PES 2011

If you hit a ball across your body in PES sometimes it has an outside swerve to it but again it's more of a looping shot than a powerful shot with bend. You CAN hit swerve shots on free kicks, but they don't happen the same way during normal shooting (probably because you can't hold the stick left or right after the shot to apply swerve like you can on a free kick??)
 
To be fair the number of long range goals I score in PES are vastly outnumbered by the number of close-range goals. I think the game gets the proportion just right. Try scoring long range efforts without the top players in the game too and it gets even harder. Point is, no-one knows how many games this guy played to fill up a compilation video, and sure he'll show long range strikes. It doesn't necessarily mean that every goal he scores is like the ones in his video.

That could also be said for FIFA, but the fact that at ANY point in the game whatsoever you can dribble in circles around your opponent is ridiculous, and makes FIFA look like a cartoon. PES isn't perfect, but at least it makes you play a little more 'football minded'.
 
LTFC said:
To be fair the number of long range goals I score in PES are vastly outnumbered by the number of close-range goals. I think the game gets the proportion just right. Try scoring long range efforts without the top players in the game too and it gets even harder. Point is, no-one knows how many games this guy played to fill up a compilation video, and sure he'll show long range strikes. It doesn't necessarily mean that every goal he scores is like the ones in his video.
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Every time I watch a PES goals video I see them moving centrally towards the edge of the D and it's like: let me guess, torpedo about waist height into the corner... oh there we go.

LTFC said:
That could also be said for FIFA, but the fact that at ANY point in the game whatsoever you can dribble in circles around your opponent is ridiculous, and makes FIFA look like a cartoon.
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Could swear that all the talk a couple of months back was how the over-physical defending made people wonder if it was even possible to dribble. Strange.
 
nerf said:
Every time I watch a PES goals video I see them moving centrally towards the edge of the D and it's like: let me guess, torpedo about waist height into the corner... oh there we go.
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Yes, down to the way the ball physics are so these shots seem favored. Importantly it's not easy though! Wait... i though you didn't watch much PES :CONFUSE:

When it comes to PES comps there's a variety of goals and instances man!


Could swear that all the talk a couple of months back was how the over-physical defending made people wonder if it was even possible to dribble. Strange.
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Wasn't that level at playing vs the CPU! Playing online vs shit players who don't know how to defend is a different matter mate :)

EatonTJ said:
Oh well, more terrible human controlled defending. Nothing the FIFA programmers can really do about that.
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Thing is boss, watch a game when two 'good' fifa players square off.

It's a tackle fest and the winner is the one lucky enough to have the ball fall into a sweetspot or a bug goal.

I remember playing vs my friends flat mate who 'knew' fifa. Every match. Same thing, tackle, tackle, tackle, tackle, tackle, tackle, The games ended 1-0 or 0-0. the winner was always lucky!

No enjoyment (we got bored, stiff) No skill, no point. This needs to be looked at! FIFA 10 and the world cup game was better in this regard. Even though games finished 5-4 etc.. all the time.
 
nerf said:
Could swear that all the talk a couple of months back was how the over-physical defending made people wonder if it was even possible to dribble. Strange.
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Ha. Forgot about that. Funny how the winds change.
 
kobayashi said:
I remember playing vs my friends flat mate who 'knew' fifa. Every match. Same thing, tackle, tackle, tackle, tackle, tackle, tackle, The games ended 1-0 or 0-0. the winner was always lucky!

No enjoyment (we got bored, stiff) No skill, no point. This needs to be looked at! FIFA 10 and the world cup game was better in this regard. Even though games finished 5-4 etc.. all the time.
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You may need a bigger sample size...
 
EatonTJ said:
You may need a bigger sample size...
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Possible, i mean i did get thrashed a few times by my other friends but i was high!:CONFUSE:

When I'm not high when i play against him, same thing really. Tackle fest and the winner is the lucky one.

One thing i found strange was my mate who dosen't play FIFA hardly ever, when i play normally against him i just about beat him or even draw. when i try skills, even with a center back, it walk past 6-7 of his players! :CONFUSE:
 
FIFA's dribbling and goal variation are pretty much indefensible, they're both shockingly poor.
 
If FIFA's defending and dribbling (human and AI) were more like PES, it would be a delight to play. For me, it can be good against a human opponent but most of the time more frustration than joy!

PES isn't as fluid and the ball physics need to be improved a lot, but I find that there is more skill involved in winning the ball cleanly and the dribbling / ability to beat a player is more natural.

Agree with the comment above...when I play FIFA against a couple of mates, it's frustrating because his players just charge through me without any jockeying or skill, or intercept the ball because the passing is too slow, or his keeper makes 10 out of this world saves...and I lose to his parried tap in goals because he plays with 4 strikers - which he calls realistic. Or the way I take a corner (and I'm not playing on all out attack), yet somehow the headed clearance gives his forward a clear 70 metre sprint to go 1 v 1 with my keeper. Why is the defence never in position on FIFA lol?
 
CalcioCalabrese said:
and I lose to his parried tap in goals because he plays with 4 strikers - which he calls realistic.
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that attitude really pisses me off when people distort their way of playing to be 'realistic'. I used to do this myself. It's just ignorance.

When comparing your play to Real football, it's it's real football elements alone which is the benchmark. REAL football BOWS to NO ONE!

Most teams play 4-2-3-1 These days, hardly any teams play up front with two out and out strikers, let alone 4! Calcio you need to set him straight. It's fine if he wants to have a laugh which i love just don't let him go about passing that shit off as 'realsim!'
 
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You can come to Australia and teach him a lesson lol. He tells himself that some teams play with 4 strikers...if they did, they'd get destroyed. All he does is what works.

And we play a "lounge" with the first person to get to a certain number of points. he only cares about winning...not about creating any realistic football. He sprints down the wing with one player, cuts it back for a finesse shot. If that doesn't work he hits it at the keeper on a 45 degree angle to get a parried goal. The other guy in the lounge at least tries to play football.

I don't care as much that this guy plays one style...just the fact that he always seems to get the lucky bounces and justifies it by saying that he's the better player when in fact, he always admits that I play the "prettier" football.

We tease him by saying he doesn't need a hard-drive to save his replays...maybe just a 1.44meg floppy disk haha
 
ant0n said:
PES has goal variety any better than FIFA's?
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Why so defensive? I didn't mention PES there...

But yeah, I think it is better in PES - you can shoot from anywhere (within reason) if the ball is set up nicely to be struck, and have a decent chance of scoring.
There is also no real "sweet spot" goals, unlike in FIFA where if you finesse from a certain angles you're practically guaranteed a goal.

The only real overpowered method of scoring in PES is the low cross, and that is able to be stopped almost every time.

Whenever I play FIFA it's just finesse goal after finesse goal... each one a carbon copy of the last, with the odd back post header or diagonal dipping shot in there.
 
Placebo said:
Yeah I don't understand why he's so defensive either, it's not as if you constantly slag off everything about Fifa, insult those of us who enjoy Fifa and praise PES constantly in the Fifa thread do you? Oh...
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I could understand if my post actually said PES was better in those respects, but it didn't, therefore it wasn't a comparison but rather just a statement purely about FIFA, so a reply basically saying "but PES is no better!" is a bit silly and unnecessary really.

There's a difference between "slagging off" and criticising - most of the stuff I complain about is factual and are actual problems with the game (that is if it's aiming to be realistic, and not arcade). I'm not just saying "I hate FIFA, hate it!"...
I do praise PES for the way it does some things, and bring that up in here sometimes when relevant.

You feel insulted? Really? :II
 
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nerf said:
Every time I watch a PES goals video I see them moving centrally towards the edge of the D and it's like: let me guess, torpedo about waist height into the corner... oh there we go.

Could swear that all the talk a couple of months back was how the over-physical defending made people wonder if it was even possible to dribble. Strange.
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Where shooting is concerned, I used to prefer FIFA11 over PES for precisely that reason, but then you learn the controls and it becomes far more varied than that.

As for FIFA and the dribbling, yeah people did complain about the AI defences making it so you can't dribble and they were right. That crazy fast player movement, incredible acceleration and instant 180 degree turns can be applied either way. The game AI uses it to crowd you out with packs of sprinting defenders who hone in on you like a missile, whereas online, where people who maybe can't defend like this can get hammered by what we saw in the video. It's a mess both ways, I've tried to repeatedly go back to the game but the same problems outweigh everything else. That's it for 11, hope 12 can make some massive headway towards being a better game.
 
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