Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

Nick Cave said:
I guess we keep praying as we do every year that Konami bring out a product that can hit EA in the only place they seem to care about.. Sales...
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What was it Einstein said is the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again while expecting the same results?

Just like EA knew when it forced the NFL into exclusive rights, thus guaranteeing Madden's dominance, so too EA knows it has no real reason to fear PES, at least when it comes to sales. Counting on PES to force EA's hand seems a futile strategy to me.

Even if PES continues to rebound, and even if FIFA were to lose "the hardcore" and many of the single-players to PES, I'm not so sure EA would even care at this point. The addition and development of UT has been pure genius for EA, and I wouldn't be surprised if in their calculations they don't figure 2 UT players to be worth 3 "hardcore" or single-player fans. Hell, with the way some people spend on UT, I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't at a 1:2 ratio already.

Until EA has a way to increase their profits from the rest of its fanbase, the UT fans will be preferred and FIFA will be geared towards them. DLC might just be the only way to make single-player FIFA fans relevant again to EA's cost-analysis reports. Because at the end of the day, that's what it's all about.
 
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Yep, almost "everyone" bought FIFA 11, they're selling so many copies so they won't change much at all. I seriously doubt they will make it more realistic (more frustrating for most gamers). Bet they are thinking the other way, how they can make it even more "accessible".
 
So how do you monetize CM in a way that makes it (a) more appealing to EA as something to support and big up, while (b) not getting so ridiculous that you have to spend another £50 just to get any enjoyment out of it? Something that is exclusive to CM rather than crossing over to other modes?
 
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It's just somewhat sickening if shipping 8m units of an annual title, with UT icing on top, is not considered enough leeway to look into hiring a couple more programmers, a UI coder and a designer, and calling it the new Career Mode team. I'm sure that would really damage their £squillions of profit.

If I'm paying £5 for the mode I want to play, what did I pay the other £35 for? And where does it end? Pay extra to unlock the arena, or to download Lionel Messi... or buying other commentary languages in the shop - oh wait...

Somewhere, Bobby Kotick is reading and has started planning his own football game franchise solely off the back of this conversation.
 
Hell if I know. I guess the first big decision is whether you'd make the entire mode DLC, or provide a basic CM and sell add-ons. I would think the former would be the easiest option but the least popular, while the latter would be preferable but quite complicated.

If CM itself were DLC, it would be pretty simple to implement but fans would probably go nuts without having a basic single player offline mode provided at retail cost.

You could provide CM at retail, then provide CM + additional features as one lump sum DLC. Base CM could be something like it is now and CM+ could be CM plus the types of (seemingly-basic) features we've discussed here and elsewhere.

Finally, instead of a lump-sum DLC, you could separate CM features and sell them each as DLCs. For example, while the base CM player growth system would be like it is now, a DLC add-on version might include options for manual and/or semi-manual player growth. You could have a Player Form DLC; a Scout Academy DLC; whatever.

I hate the sound of turning CM into some form of DLC content, and I can see this being an extremely hard sell, but I personally prefer that idea to a continuing trend of mediocre, error-filled, and shallow game modes.
 
To be clear, I'm not in favour of the idea. I'm not sure what sort of DLC would give us what we want either. But I can see the logic in saying that DLC is the grim future. So it pays (ahem) to be pessimistic and talk about what might have to be done if FIFA 12 doesn't redress the balance to some extent.
 
Yeah, I know. I don't think there's any good reason to favor the idea if a quality single player mode can be provided at retail cost.

It's unfortunate but I liken the situation to many of the current FPS games - provide a solid foundation of gameplay mechanics, a short but sweet campaign, and as robust a multiplayer experience as possible. It used to be a 5-hour single player campaign would get laughed at, but now...

So if EA are choosing to follow the same route with FIFA, I'd at least like the possibility of supplementing its barebones single player experience with some DLC, just as I might supplement an FPS with additional campaign content.

Now it could be this isn't the model EA intends to use, and it could be that EA have intentions of really beefing up CM, but I'm not sure there's much to go on to support that idea, and it may behoove to think outside the box for last ditch efforts to save FIFA's offline single player.
 
I have no interest in buying Fifa Manager and have never bought one, but if Fifa 12/13/14/etc was compatible with Fifa Manager 12/13/14/15 etc I would gladly spend the extra £50 each year....

I know "Football Fusion" was done on the PC one year to combine Fifa Manager's management with Fifa's gameplay but I'd love it if they would(could?) bring it onto consoles.
 
romagnoli said:
So how do you monetize CM in a way that makes it (a) more appealing to EA as something to support and big up, while (b) not getting so ridiculous that you have to spend another £50 just to get any enjoyment out of it? Something that is exclusive to CM rather than crossing over to other modes?
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Yes, but I'd venture to guess that there is a sizable market out there for whom CM is the primary consideration and, given EA's track record over the past few years will become increasingly leery of the game at release and may forgo it entirely if there aren't improvements in the single-player experience. Thus they lose the game revenue and any IAP possibility..

I can speak only for myself, but I know that what was traditionally a day 1 purchase will not be so in the future - i'm not taking the plunge again until I'm confident that reputable sources have confirmed improvements.
 
I am truly truly astonished at how shitty this AI can be. It cheats, pure and simple.

For a laugh I played a couple of friendlies on Legendary. The last one, me as Barcelona against Swiss team Young Boys, a far weaker team. I went a goal down from yet ANOTHER fucking header from a deep cross that I could do nothing about. I work my way back into the game and score a great goal for 1-1.

Second half, I have literally all the ball as per every FIFA match I play, suffer under the most ridiculously robust challenges the AI can throw at me, including one hilarious one arm smash in Messi's face that I'll have to upload, it just looks farcical. It finishes 1-1.

So, for extra time, again I have all the ball, but Young Boys then break away and score twice on the break. Both from through balls, and for no reason whatsoever my defence is completely all over the place. Nothing at all to do with me, I can't do much about stuff that's happening off screen. They scored one, then another almost straight from kick off.

To my amazement, I'm literally up out of my seat because Xavi pulls one back with a free kick in the 105th minute, then on 110 mins Busquets hits a long range shot that clips a defender and flies into the top corner. 3-3, and an amazing come back.

The revival continues and I look to have won the game when a minute later, Busquets again scores from a header from a corner. Surely the game is won, I've had nearly 70% of the ball and can just see the game out?

Nope. I then saw the AI quite visibly ramp up it's pressuring even further, at the end of extra frickin' time, so realism is right up there then, and literally every loose ball, every decision, everything goes to them. They equalise within a couple of minutes of this happening, YET AGAIN from a deep cross and header. I'm verging on conceding a goal from the exact same cross and header in every single match I play. Most of the time the game, for that one moment in the 90 minutes, makes the player unmarked and bang, it's a goal. My keeper never, ever, ever, ever saves them. So the cross comes over and as the screen scrolls from left to right, I find out that the game has left a midfielder completely on his own with an empty net for the header. 4-4.

Then, I kick off. The AI rampages from the kick off and smacks Xavi off the ball, leaving him lying on the floor. They spray the ball out wide, again, at full sprint, like the AI's on a bloody homing device or something, then my largest defenders can't shrug some smaller player off the ball, and he gets all the way into the penalty area, shoots, the keeper saves, and for no reason whatsoever other than that the game artificially decides such things, Puyol gathered the ball under little pressure. I press the button to clear the ball, nothing happens. I press it again. Nothing happens. Then Puyol automatically walks the ball into his own net despite me desperately pulling the stick in the opposite direction. 4-5.

I get one final chance on goal, Villa goes through on goal, the fucking game micro pauses. The next thing I know, he's been fouled in the area, knocked a good 3-4 feet off the ball, and the game carries on with no penalty.

It genuinely felt like the game let me play the game as it should be played, but when it fell behind went into some crazed 'turbo' mode like all the players were bionic men with some unfathomable magnetism for any loose bounce of the ball. It was so obvious to see. Seriously. After 120 minutes I had 68% of the ball, had 12 shots on target to the AI's 5, and lost 4-5. I only went in front for about 90 seconds of real time, before the game just handed itself an equalizer and farcical winner. So very, very infuriating! Seems like on Legendary the AI thinks it's realistic that your keeper never ever saves any shots at goal. If it's on target and any kind of half decent effort, it's a goal.
 
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mfmaxpower said:
What was it Einstein said is the definition of insanity, doing the same thing over and over again while expecting the same results?

Just like EA knew when it forced the NFL into exclusive rights, thus guaranteeing Madden's dominance, so too EA knows it has no real reason to fear PES, at least when it comes to sales. Counting on PES to force EA's hand seems a futile strategy to me.

Even if PES continues to rebound, and even if FIFA were to lose "the hardcore" and many of the single-players to PES, I'm not so sure EA would even care at this point. The addition and development of UT has been pure genius for EA, and I wouldn't be surprised if in their calculations they don't figure 2 UT players to be worth 3 "hardcore" or single-player fans. Hell, with the way some people spend on UT, I wouldn't be surprised if it weren't at a 1:2 ratio already.

Until EA has a way to increase their profits from the rest of its fanbase, the UT fans will be preferred and FIFA will be geared towards them. DLC might just be the only way to make single-player FIFA fans relevant again to EA's cost-analysis reports. Because at the end of the day, that's what it's all about.
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And look at their sales, they are falling year on year as the few tweaks they make each time make it less appealing to buy virtually the same product year on year. In a market with virtually no competition I have to hope Konami keep making leaps as EA can and will go on bringing out a barely changed product knowing the thing will sell.

I'd hate to see CM go down the UT mode of pay to play but I wouldn't be surprised if EA are not looking at that option...
 
Nick Cave said:
Ahh.. good old FIFA, there are players on here who will claim they have never seen any of this and play at least 5 hours a day against the AI... ;)
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It's LTFC who cheats! He got a lucky deflection that so conveniently flew in to equalise, then went ahead with yet another [bleep]ing header from a corner that the AI could do nothing about :PP :FISH:

More seriously, the CPU does bump up its team Mentality level to (more) attacking when it is chasing a game. Whether there's anything more sinister than that I don't know, but it can take you by surprise when they suddenly become more direct than you've previously been used to.

I often drop my own Mentality to Defensive when I've taken the lead, even if only temporarily (depending on the scenario), and try to play a bit of keep-ball at first.
 
nerf said:
It's LTFC who cheats! He got a lucky deflection that so conveniently flew in to equalise, then went ahead with yet another [bleep]ing header from a corner that the AI could do nothing about :PP :FISH:

More seriously, the CPU does bump up its team Mentality level to (more) attacking when it is chasing a game. Whether there's anything more sinister than that I don't know, but it can take you by surprise when they suddenly become more direct than you've previously been used to.

I often drop my own Mentality to Defensive when I've taken the lead, even if only temporarily (depending on the scenario), and try to play a bit of keep-ball at first.
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Haha I never realised that I actually benefited from some stuff too! Ooops :P

I just get wound up from conceding from headers though because it's the exact same goal. I can see it a mile off, and still I never have anyone close enough to the striker then the ball comes in. It's really hard to get control of a player in the middle before the cross comes in, and manually make him mark the defender tighter. Is that what other people do?

Yeah I learnt a harsh lesson in the ways of Legendary. For all the boosting AI, I actually felt mostly like I had a little more space when attacking. I think the AI doesn't pack the defence so much, and actually throws a few players forwards to attack. Dribbling in the main though seems to be a case of getting run off the ball no matter who you control, though from your vids, nerf, that's not something you seem to suffer from too much.

That said, this was in a friendly, and seeing as I've noticed a massive leap between them and CM matches in terms of pressuring AI etc, I think I'm a bit scared to try it. Poor Messi's still reeling from his facial 'mugging' in the last game!
 
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LTFC - Again, what you're seeing is the equivalent of what I was saying about the pressuring and the physicality - I said that the AI standing off of you when you were dribbling slowly was disingenuous because it could kill you any time it wanted. Similarly the AI is capable of playing as effectively as it does in Ultra Attacking mode all the time. The game is designed to have the ability for this ruthless effectiveness to happen for an entire 90 minutes. It doesn't because the AI's wings are deliberately clipped to give the impression of a more balanced, slower pace game.
 
Something that has been gnawing on me lately is the level of disregard the devs can at times have for the online community, in other words how they sometimes seem to hide behind the conclusion that the online community is not a good representation of the FIFA fanbase as a whole. This has popped-up again with the recent patch, with EA claiming they're "addressing top three priorities of FIFA players."

In a recent thread about tomorrow's patch, EA Rom had the following to say. My reaction is after that, which was a bit of a rush response but it's the gist of what bothers me about EA's argument. Am I wrong, does EA have access to information that would give them a better impression of what its fans are thinking and care about, more than the forums? What "community commentary" is EA monitoring outside the forums that would give a better sample?

And another question, which I did not raise, does what the "silent majority" think matter as much as what the more serious fans think? Sure their money matters as much, but if their standards are lower, or if they are less focused or interested in the details of the game, shouldn't EA worry more about the more serious fan, those who set the trends and influence reviews, etc.?

EA Rom said:
:shock:

Just to try to bring in a bit of context, we measure all sorts of game telemetry and community commentary far outside the realms of this forum, and that's what forms the basis for a lot of the prioritisation that goes on. We have to do that because, actually, the experience of the vast majority of people who play FIFA is not particularly well reflected by the content of this forum alone. That's not some sort of swipe at the forum or something, by the way - it's very important to us indeed - it's just a statement of fact. It's the nature of the beast.

There's two reasons for that really: 1) Generally speaking, people only come to this forum when they have a problem or criticism. And that's totally fair enough; it's the same for the forums associated with any game, but it does skew things off in one direction and we need to gain as balanced a view as possible. 2) The things that people care most about on this forum aren't necessarily the things that most people are actually doing in the game. We know that because we can see it, real time.

Anyway, that's a bit of context. Basically, from a top-down view, relative 'volume' on this forum in any one area is actually only part of the picture, albeit a big part.

In terms of the micro-freezing issue, we do know that with the first title update the issue was vastly reduced. It does seem, however, that it's not fixed for some and the dev guys have spent an amazing amount of time trying to figure that out. It's not a simple thing, but that's as techie as I personally can get.

I will do my best to get more in-depth info on it, though.
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I'm sorry but I don't see how your two points make sense, let alone what you've said is actually "fact" as you claim. I'd love to hear you explain further, and I'd imagine if you could it would go a ways toward alleviating some of the feelings on the forums that EA aren't interested in what its fans care about.

In your first point you say most people who come on these forums do so only because they have a complaint, and these complaints are not representative of FIFA's wider customer base. Well first of all, there are plenty of people on here who come to support the game, ask a question, or simply share their experiences, like in CM. The first reason I came on these forums had to do with MM a few years ago, and it was only until the last couple years that my posts have taken a more critical lean. From years of first observing and then participating in the FIFA forums, I know that my own experience is reflected by many others and the level of complaints and criticisms were not as high a few years ago as they are now.

Also regarding your first point, that the complaints on these forums skew things off in one direction, I'd like to know why a) when the topic of discussion is a patch you wouldn't be solely interested in complaints and problems, is it even relevant whether the overall level of complaints does or does not skew things off in one direction as you say; and b) why you believe the complaints, concerns and feelings of these forums are not a decent sample of your general customer base to begin with?

Which segues into your second reason, that things people care most about on this forum aren't necessarily the things that most people are actually doing in the game. Again, I'm most interested to know how you can be so certain that these forums are not a decent sample of the general FIFA customer population. You say you're certain because you "can see it, real time." Well big-brother conspiracy theories aside, what in the world does that actually mean? What, you know every time some kid curses at his FIFA game because his starting CB declines in OVR in Career Mode? Or you know every time Iniesta gets unrealistically barged-off the ball by a defender? Or you're able to monitor the number of FIFA players who now refrain from using any tackle or pressure buttons when they play because the auto-tackle and jockey systems are all you need now to defend efficiently (and realistically) in FIFA?

I have been playing FIFA or one football game or another for about two decades now, yet I've only participated in online forums regarding these games in the last couple years, and only began observing the same forums a couple years earlier. So for much of my FIFA-playing lifetime, I've done so as one of the silent majority, yet my complaints and interests in the game were the same then as they are now. It's just that before I never bothered to participate in an online community. Nonetheless I was still interested in a working management mode, realistic physics, quality animations, etc. Why is it you believe that those who participate in these forums are so different from those who do not?

I'm curious to know what it is people are actually doing in the game, that EA is watching in "real-time," that is so different from the experiences represented on these forums? When I speak to friends who do not participate in online forums, or those who are in other forums than these, the feedback I see is quite in-line with what's presented here. I see no indication whatsoever that the priorities expressed by fans here are not representative of the greater FIFA fanbase. Unless EA's ability to watch "in real-time" includes some form of mind-reading, how in the world do you know what FIFA fans are thinking about your game is not well-represented by this community?

I'm getting tired of EA hiding behind the accusation that the FIFA forums are not a decent representation of the wider FIFA customer base, and I'd really appreciate a greater explanation of how EA manages to acquire better feedback that what's provided here. I may disagree with a lot of what is posted in these forums but I see no reason to consider the FIFA forums to be a weak sample of FIFA players reactions, impressions, expectations, and priorities. So why does EA?
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I think that EA is done pushing the current generation of machines. Might be what 3-4 more years before the PS4 or X720? I think they just try to milk whatever they can from UT or whatever the kids pay extra for. they opened a can of worms with the 360 movement and passing and needed the defense to be overpowering to have any chance. Current gen probably cannot handle improved AI or they have decided it isn't worth the $.
 
EA's official website is actually hilarious how badly they treat customers on there. I appreciate that the moderators on there, who represent EA, probably don't have access to much info, but the snippy nature of their replies defies belief. I remember some guy kept up a thread on the World Cup game for months, defiantly stating he wasn't going to stop until he got an answer as to whether there would be a patch to fix bugs. MONTHS later, all he got was a snide, sarcastic single sentence that didn't even answer anything. People are on there making complaints about bugs, and the mods come on and act like they've been inconvenienced by all the moaning. That would be the case, had all those people not shelled out £40 each for EA's product.

On a different note, I agree with you romagnoli, I do see your argument now. Take these vids from one friendly match last night, the AI's overpowering treatment is summed up perfectly, including the first clip which hilariously shows the AI's comedy 'arm in the face' way of blocking player runs.....

YouTube - Foul!
 
lancers said:
I think that EA is done pushing the current generation of machines. Might be what 3-4 more years before the PS4 or X720? I think they just try to milk whatever they can from UT or whatever the kids pay extra for. they opened a can of worms with the 360 movement and passing and needed the defense to be overpowering to have any chance. Current gen probably cannot handle improved AI or they have decided it isn't worth the $.
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I'm not sure whether a single one of FIFA's worst problems - aside from maybe the AI - has anything to do with technical limitations.

Although I think you raise a good point: "360" movement is relatively new and arguably has revolutionized the genre, so it shouldn't be a surprise that FIFA is still working-out the kinks and figuring-out how to re-balance the game.

Technology raises issues but not necessarily limitations at this point. There probably isn't room for any more major additions to the gameplay engine this console generation but that's fine - there's still plenty of room for improvement, and really, there is a very good football game stuck somewhere deep inside FIFA's engine.
 
Footplants and momentum aside FIFA is still head and shoulders above PES. Unless Konami can really up their game next year I think we have to wait till next gen to see what they can do. Or maybe just play WE9?:COOL:
 
lancers said:
Footplants and momentum aside FIFA is still head and shoulders above PES. Unless Konami can really up their game next year I think we have to wait till next gen to see what they can do. Or maybe just play WE9?:COOL:
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I'd say FIFA is still ahead... but I won't give them the shoulders.
 
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It's well ahead from a technical standpoint. That's about it. It's well behind in a lot of other areas, such as footballing ones.
 
LTFC said:
Take these vids from one friendly match last night, the AI's overpowering treatment is summed up perfectly, including the first clip which hilariously shows the AI's comedy 'arm in the face' way of blocking player runs.....
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I think the arm across the face is presumably caused by the 'arm out' jostle animation not accommodating for such a difference in height. That would be the chest of a player of similar height. Just a visual thing, really.

The second and fourth clips (Messi and Villa) show a lighter player being levered off the ball by a much heavier opponent. To some degree that contrast needs to exist, but to me it also demonstrates how attackers need to be granted more of an ability to naturally shield the ball in those situations, particularly in the case of such skilled players at slow speeds, in order to help counter-balance the generally high level of defensive aggression. Whether that's some kind of new 'moving shield' button or just an empowerment of LT dribble, or whatever. Good technicians should be intrinsically more able to use their technical ability (at slow speeds) to protect the ball rather than it always just being a contest of physical strength.

Coming back to the less-balanced world of FIFA11 though, the reason the tackle happened is because you showed them the ball. Your player was dribbling using the foot nearest the defender (the left in these cases) and the angle of the dribbler's body gave the defender an 'attack angle' on the ball. They'll always pounce on that, regardless of opponent or match context or mode. If you don't give them that angle and try to keep the ball on the other side of your body, they generally won't barge in.

The third clip (Pedro) illustrates something I was thinking about the other day, which is that IMO I don't think that an attacker should ever end up on the floor when stand tackled at such a slow speed. If you were sprinting and tumbled forward, fine, but all Pedro's speed was scrubbed off by the sharp turn and he was even attempting a pass. Whether the stand tackle is fair or foul, or whether there's a large Strength attribute difference or not, I don't see any need for Pedro to have to end up on the turf in that context.

In the points I suggested to Romagnoli here the other day about the contrast between sprinting madly and moving more slowly/deliberately, this is something else that could be mentioned. Being tackled when sprinting could more often result in being floored, and therefore out of action/position for a few moments while he lands, recovers and gets back up... whereas being tackled at this sort of minimal speed should pretty much never result in being floored, so you don't suffer that penalty and instead can continue to compete for the ball.

mfmaxpower said:
Technology raises issues but not necessarily limitations at this point. There probably isn't room for any more major additions to the gameplay engine this console generation but that's fine - there's still plenty of room for improvement, and really, there is a very good football game stuck somewhere deep inside FIFA's engine.
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Agreed. Some careful balancing and tweaking of existing variables could go a long way.
 
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TikTikTikTikTik said:
Nothing worth mentioning... :(
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Sadly true..

Patch Details

FIFA 11
The three things we will address for the FIFA 11 main game are the biggest asks from the community currently, so we’re glad to be able to improve things here for you.

* Firstly, we will be fixing an issue with FIFA 11’s Clubs mode which allows clubs to unfairly end games without a penalty when they are losing: The so-called Trigger Glitch. This involves clubs arranging a disconnection to the game via the Player Ratings screen. To make extra sure that this issue is completely resolved for you, we will be removing this screen from the pause menu of all online modes.

* Secondly, we will be addressing poor teammate AI when playing as a Virtual Pro. Our fix will make sure that, no matter what difficulty you set for your opponent, your team AI will be much improved, making for an altogether better experience when playing the game in this way.

* Finally, we will correct a problem where your Virtual Pro can’t be brought into your Career Mode game.

FIFA 11 Ultimate Team
We recently released a big, complex update for Ultimate Team, bringing new Friends Leaderboards and Play A Friend Challenge features to the game. A few new issues surfaced after this release, and we’ll be addressing those as well:

* After the release of the new Ultimate Team features it became possible for some users to gain control of an opponent’s team during online play. We will stop this happening.

* We will correct an issue that prevents FUT players placing bids in auctions above 1,000,000 coins.

* We will fix a problem that causes the scrolling to accelerate uncontrollably when using the D-Pad to select a bid amount on auctions.

* Finally, dysfunctional ‘take-me-there’ links within the FUT interface will be working again.

Thanks again for your continued feedback and support. While the three things we’re addressing for the FIFA 11 main game are big ones for the community and the update will improve the experience of the game for a lot of people, we do recognise that there’s a lot more feedback from you in other areas. We have read it all, compiled it, and have made it a central pillar of the things we’re already working on. So, for that reason, keep it coming!
 
I'd never actually heard of any of those fixes being problems in the first place......

The Virtual Pro team mate improvements is a good patch, depending of course on how they'll now play.

As for the Ultimate Team patch, seriously, there was a bug where an online opponent could take control of your team?! That's kinda hilarious. I can imagine some perplexed people online with that one....

Nerf, yeah totally agree, I did show the defenders the ball in that vid, but I suppose like you said, my point really was how the power of the challenges knocks me flying every time. Some of them though, like one where Messi is shoved off the ball are more annoying. I was still in control of the ball and no actual challenge came in, except for the violent shove. He may be smaller than the defender, but that's still a blatant foul.

Yeah I'm realising gradually that you can't dribble in certain ways in this game. In older games you could dribble, say, left, then quickly turn right into the defender and wrongfoot him. No such luck in this version, you're totally right - show the ball to the AI in any capacity and the step tackle/player falls over defender's leg occurs. The main problem for me with my players constantly falling over is that you have little recourse to go and win the ball back. It's almost as if the AI makes them fall over to buy itself a little extra time on the ball......
 
They are valid fixes if you're interested in those modes, but they are also quick and easy (or at least you can imagine them being simple fixes). The Clubs fix is just to remove the screen that was glitching; the VP fix is to boost the friendly AI 'difficulty'. For those who don't touch BAP or UT or Clubs it's a particularly paltry offering.

Funny how the UT fixes are fixing issues caused by the last UT patch. I suppose it's a blessing CM didn't get patched otherwise it'd have needed another one soon after...!
 
On the topic of protecting the ball from defenders and maintaining possession, I have some vids I wanted to post in the official forums as feedback pointing-out what I’m thinking is a bug in the shielding feature, but I’d like to see what you all think in case I’m missing something and the problem I’m having is my own fault.

So I think we can all agree that shielding isn’t effective enough at holding-off some challenges, but a specific issue I have is what appears to me as players freezing in place for a couple seconds during which I cannot make them respond to my controller commands, either to make the player pass or dribble or whatever. Posted below are four examples of what I’m talking about, and as a bonus the last video captures what I think is my favorite goal scored in FIFA 11.

In this first video, my player in red receives the pass, and with his back to the defender I initiate RT (R2 on PS3) to shield the ball. However, instead of actively retaining possession while using his body to shield the ball from the defender (i.e. what the shielding feature should do), my player steps back from the ball... and basically just stares dumbly at the ball while the defender strolls in to claim possession. Between the time that I hold down RT, my player takes two steps backwards, and the defender takes possession, I have absolutely no control over my player. So, am I doing something wrong here - from a mechanical stand-point, not tactical - or is this a bug in the gameplay code?

YouTube - Shielding Freeze

My second example has my player, this time in yellow and black, dribbling and then stopping with his body between the ball and a defender. I initiate shield and again you’ll see my player stand away from the ball and basically stare stupidly as another defender waltzes in to take the ball. As far as I could tell, my player during this time was completely unresponsive to my commands.

YouTube - Shielding Freeze 2

My third example, and it’s pretty much the same as the previous: me in black and yellow, stopping on the ball and trying to shield, and unable to do anything while an opposing player takes the ball. (You may notice that this isn’t a scenario that necessarily called for me to shield, but these videos come during an episode when I was trying to reclaim the physical side of the game, which I accomplished by re-learning and practicing all sorts of dribbling techniques such as shielding.)

YouTube - Shielding Freeze 3

My last video of this issue and I’m back in red. I’m dribbling, I stop, I shield. Except in this case my player doesn’t bother moving his body between the ball and the defender (maybe he’s confused as to which of the three nearby defenders he’s meant to shield the ball from), and instead just stops, stares at the ball as if he’s playing chicken with the defenders but is surprised when a fourth defender swoops in for the ball.

YouTube - Shielding Freeze 4

This final and bonus video is just awesome. It has nothing to do with player shielding but an altogether entirely different sort of issue. I’m not sure if I love it so much because of how it happens, or just because I actually capitalize on the only time I’ve ever had this issue in FIFA 11. Pay attention to the keeper...

YouTube - Favorite Goal Ever

Like I said, that’s a one-off, isolated incident for me, so I’m not raising hell and crying bug or anything like that. I’ve played hundreds of FIFA 11 matches and never seen something like this happen. Especially awesome was that this goal occurred in the 80-something minute in a hard-fought 0-0 match and proved the match-winner!

Anyways, back on topic, do these videos show a bug - just one example of how the shielding feature needs improvement for 12 - or am I doing something wrong in controlling my player that allows for an opponent to steal the ball right from under my nose?
 
Just FYI, EA Rom responded to my post with this post, and there's some nice follow-up responses to his response if you're interested here.

I agree: Nice post, mfmaxpower. Although I did try very hard indeed to word things in a way that would avoid people thinking that sort of thing!

First things first, we do of course care a very great deal about what FIFA players think. It's why we invest in providing this forum. It's why the things written in this forum are continually monitored and literally copied into the dev-tracking at the studio. It's why we invest in live community events. It goes without saying that the people who make FIFA care about it intensely, and care what people think about it just as much.

There are people who come onto the forum to support the game, yes, and that's great. But most people are stimulated to come here for the opposite reason. That's just what people do, and that's fine. So, I didn't mean "the complaints on these forums skew things off in one direction", I meant the very nature of the forum - of any product-related forum, in fact - actually generates the skew in itself. That's not a bad thing per se, it just means that in assessing everything we have to study a much wider range of metrics and benchmarks in order to get a balanced perspective and prioritise the things we aim at.

And no matter what we aim at, we'll never get to everything. And that unfortunately means there will always be a stimulus for that 'skew'. Your statement about FIFA 'a few years ago' is a good case in point I think. You say the level of complaints and criticisms was not as high then as it is now, yet we happily acknowledge that a few years ago FIFA was, frankly, a bit rubbish. We tackled that head on, in no small measure by assessing community opinion and driving hard at achieving the sort of game quality everyone wanted to see. The game today is streets ahead of where we were but, actually, the level of complaints and criticism now versus then is almost exactly the same. I know, I was there.

So, while this forum and the people on it are the single most important resource we have for understanding where we are, we do look at other things. We have to. Those things include detailed real-time telemetry from the game. Using that we're able to build an accurate picture of what people do in the game the most (and the least), and plan work against it. So, for example, a lot of people here are saying that improving the AI in VP games doesn't matter, that it's relatively unimportant. To them, yes, for sure. But we know - because we can see it - that this is one thing that will positively improve the game for literally millions of people every day.

So, as ever, it's a balancing act. Resources versus time versus community demand versus solid data. We're doing our best to positively affect the experience of as many people as possible, and we're working on getting better at that over time.

So, just to wrap up this piece of interminable waffle. We certainly don't see this forum as a weak representation of FIFA players' opinion. Far from it. But we do know it's representative of a certain core FIFA player that tends to use the game in a way that the casual majority does not, and so when it comes to making these tough decisions we have to look across as broad a spectrum of data and research as we can.

That said, there's only one place where things people say get literally cut-and-paste into development processes, and that's here. It's why the game of today is not that game of a few years ago, and all things considered I think we're all pretty happy about that!
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