Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

I can guarantee that I pressed the shoot button as I wanted as strong and high a defensive header as possible to get the ball away from my goal. It's hard to show what I mean by the video because you can't see who I was controlling and when because you can't see the cursor in replays, but I had control of Fabio for pretty much all of this replay. I saw the clear line of the ball moving towards him, saw the attacker move across him, and just for a split second when the run was being made I just couldn't control him. Likewise, there are many times when I press the shoot button and they either don't react at all, or when they do then they just get outjumped regardless of who the players were.

Here's YET another example from tonight. The keeper parries the ball high, and when it loops down Rio Ferdinand is well positioned to get a strong header against a weaker and shorter Darren Bent. I press shoot at the correct time, which will make me win 99.9% of headers in any other area of the pitch, but because the goal is gaping behind them, even though the game reacts to my player's jump, the slo mo part of the replay shows the AI just made a weaker Darren Bent jump just as high, and then slightly nudge Ferdinand out of the way, again resulting in a goal from a f***ing header.

Manchester Utd 3 – 2 Sunderland | EA SPORTS

Now you could argue that Ferdinand is slightly under the ball, but man, it's an amazing coincidence that so many times the flight of the ball conveniently lands just that fraction better for the AI to capitalize.

So I don't know what to do, maybe it is me, but I can win almost every header everywhere else on the pitch, I score plenty of headers, so taking that information on board, what is it about this game that makes my usual domination in headers completely lose the plot when anywhere near my goal? It can't be timing and positioning, because like I said I get it right everywhere else on the pitch. To me, it feels as if the AI turns superhuman in strength and reaction, as well as gifting itself a tiny bit of space, when the ball goes into my penalty area in the air.

But then again, others here don't seem to have that problem. It's a mystery.
 
Last edited:
Oh and to answer Ibra77, this season I've won something like 9 and drawn 7, lost 1. Last season I won 21 drew a whopping 17, losing none whatsoever. The AI just soaks up pressure, I have 60-80% of the ball, and I get punished almost every game with the AI's only shots of the game.

I bought Akinfeev, in the summer transfer window, he's 85 rated, but doesn't make any difference, it feels like I may as well have a 45 rated keeper for all the good he does me. I literally concede from almost every effort I have against me, which is usually enough to see the AI to a draw or I sneak a narrow win. Seeing as the AI didn't score with their foot against me for over a complete season, you see how annoying it is to concede a late equalizer on a regular basis having had, say, 70% of the play, 10 shots to 2, and yet I draw 1-1 thanks to another headed goal against me!
 
I think a few of you are culpable of overestimating the work necessary to rebuild the stats system - it's more of a case of them starting from scratch with it and building it afresh from a theoretical point of view than any programming necessity.

There is nothing especially wrong with any of the technical systems - just a complete lack of footballing realism in multiple areas. Whilst some areas of the game are mostly unaffected by stats, the vast majority are - touch, the breadth of animations available, shooting, passing, crossing, heading, jumping, jostling and running - but almost every single stat is either too important or not really important at all - very few of them feel correctly balanced.

Strength and speed are two sides of this really - both definitely do something, but strength is now the main currency of the game - whereas speed has been nerfed so far that 'fast' players can barely keep ahead of a slow defender let alone see the defender eat his dust.

EA at no point lack the technical ability or time to sort more or less everything in time for October next year. They lack the understanding of football, or, in most cases, the actual desire to improve the system. You can see this inside gameplay and out - it's a lack of desire and understanding rather than capability and time.
 
Rodelero said:
I think a few of you are culpable of overestimating the work necessary to rebuild the stats system - it's more of a case of them starting from scratch with it and building it afresh from a theoretical point of view than any programming necessity.

There is nothing especially wrong with any of the technical systems - just a complete lack of footballing realism in multiple areas. Whilst some areas of the game are mostly unaffected by stats, the vast majority are - touch, the breadth of animations available, shooting, passing, crossing, heading, jumping, jostling and running - but almost every single stat is either too important or not really important at all - very few of them feel correctly balanced.

Strength and speed are two sides of this really - both definitely do something, but strength is now the main currency of the game - whereas speed has been nerfed so far that 'fast' players can barely keep ahead of a slow defender let alone see the defender eat his dust.

EA at no point lack the technical ability or time to sort more or less everything in time for October next year. They lack the understanding of football, or, in most cases, the actual desire to improve the system. You can see this inside gameplay and out - it's a lack of desire and understanding rather than capability and time.
Click to expand...

You know, this is what my "gut" tells me, however because we (I'm guessing this applies to many if not all of us) lack a thorough understanding of game programming, FIFA's engine,, and EA's development process, topics such as this will remain the realm of more speculation than fact. Evo-Web desperately needs a mole within the dev team, suggestions?

But about your statement regarding nothing really being wrong with any of the "technical systems" I do have one major concern - the animations. I've been paying closer attention to the animations than I ever have before in a FIFA game and it's shocking how the animation system seems to completely ignore the mechanics of physics, most critically where inertia is concerned, while also disregarding the importance of foot planting - close inspection shows a frightening disconnect between players and the ground, with feet sliding, skipping, and jumping around unnaturally.

Maybe I'm making a bigger deal of it than it deserves, but considering that this is a football game I would like to think that the supposedly top franchise in the world would have at least some degree of realism in its footwork.

Anyhow, the animations system is the one system I'm most concerned that you may be incorrect, simply because I could imagine getting the physics right not only a major task in itself, but then you have to consider how capable ( not to mention willing) are the devs in going back and correcting/adjusting the vast number of animations in the game.
 
mfmaxpower said:
I've been paying closer attention to the animations than I ever have before in a FIFA game and it's shocking how the animation system seems to completely ignore the mechanics of physics, most critically where inertia is concerned, while also disregarding the importance of foot planting - close inspection shows a frightening disconnect between players and the ground, with feet sliding, skipping, and jumping around unnaturally.

Maybe I'm making a bigger deal of it than it deserves, but considering that this is a football game I would like to think that the supposedly top franchise in the world would have at least some degree of realism in its footwork.
Click to expand...
Yes. IMO.

If you would allow me to be blunt... personally speaking, I don't care. :OOOH:

swos9697.png
"Oh what, my player just did an 18-yard-long diving header without planting his feet properly first!"

If we've seriously got to the stage where we're concerned about whether individual feet are planted perfectly in the grass, then I think we've lost all perspective. Let's just not hit instant replay and zoom in on slow-mo orbit cam.

If what we're actually talking about is players being able to change direction more suddenly than you'd like, then let's focus on what's actually important. And let's recognise that it is the way it is in order to enjoy increased responsiveness. Probably all it would take is to tweak the variable that modifies how much speed a character loses when he changes direction. That's all PES does after all :SHHH:
 
The only reason I'm concerned about correct footwork is that, like I said, it's a constant throughout so many of the problematic movements and animations, so I'm just inferring that if you correct the footwork then by extension you correct the movements.

Like you said, let's focus on what's important, and if they can solve these issues without having to address footwork, then yeah, I don't really care either.

*Edit: I take back that last sentence - nerf tricked me using the old Sensi nostalgia trick. See post below.
 
Last edited:
Well that's the thing, it's the other way round. The feet are estimated by the animation, they don't propel movement. The characters are not much more than a lollipop stick with dressing.

I'd speculate that EA could fairly easily tune down how much momentum is carried through turns, and the rate at which you can subsequently accelerate, without too much trouble. Maybe they've tried that and don't like how it makes movement less fluid and more stop-start. I'd imagine Gary P probably already has the facility to fiddle with exactly that stuff in the testbed environment we saw.
 
Last edited:
game is just to horrible and way to assisted online, you can't even play manuel FUT so imo, this game is like 3 steps backwards from last year, the crossing is to assisted/accurate, headers to easy to score, pace is everything down the wings ie the right stick. fifa is like the mls league, its just end to end and the defending is shite.
 
Last edited:
Sensi has sod all to do with it. I hate when it's brought up in such a misleading way - it was never a football sim, it was always a highly enjoyable arcade game.

We should not be using Sensi as the benchmark. Nobody judged Battlefield 2 against James Pond.

Footplanting is essential. It's not just aesthetic. It's a visual indicator, a clear moment-by-moment representation of whether a player is able to take another touch or is open to a challenge. Momentum, which is intrinsically related to this as FIFA carries it's momentum within animations at the moment, is key because it is a real world, universally understandable concept that SHOULD allow left stick dribbling to be a natural way of beating players who have overcommitted.

The problem is that FIFA is balancing its responsiveness against the pressuring and physicality, rather than reducing the pressuring and keeping the responsiveness/movement of the players within humanly understandable limits.

So many of the problems in the game would be solved by getting momentum and footplanting right. It's not about being pedantic for the sake of replays, or expecting too much from a video game (an argument I've only ever heard on FIFA forums). It's basic, fundamental football. If you don't have them, then you end up with the sort of mess that constitutes huge swathes of FIFA 11.
 
Last edited:
Even if they can solve the floaty movement with tweaking, they won't do it. That's why it would be so good if they introduced two general settings for the game: Normal or Simulation. Normal would be the current slightly arcady settings overall. Simulation would try to actually have realistic movement, ball control, accuracy errors and so on.

On top of this could also be a set of sliders for stuff that can be more easily tweaked. I don't think realistic movement will ever have sliders for example, so the only possibility to ever have that realistic would probably be if they implemented this kind of general Simulation setting.
 
The point was not that Sensi is a benchmark, at all; it was an attempt to highlight the sort of expectations we have these days. The sort of things we complain about in a manner as if it's a disgrace that they aren't perfectly realistic. Stuff that wouldn't have crossed anyone's minds ten years ago, we now scream about as if it's abhorrently gamebreaking.

Bipedal characters' feet in video games are animation-based only. The actor slides around within virtual constraints that emulate the physics of movement, and contextual animations play over the top to give the illusion of contact with the ground. As long as this remains the case, your idyllic vision of foot-planting will always be artificial with some amount of sliding and moon-walking while anims blend. Just like in PES.

I consider it far more important to get the 'feel' of movement just right, rather than worrying too much about where the soles of the feet are. I play from a zoomed out Tele cam, the feet are mere pixels. I want something that responds to my stick-inputs and is well balanced between attacking and defending, something that feels nice to control without being over/under-powered. I could happily settle for how it is now if they just toned down a few of the momentum variables.

The problems here are 'players turn too easily' and 'pressuring is too effective', rather than 'my feet don't plant in the most believable place'.
 
I'm enjoying it. Playing VP (striker)career with Arsenal controlling the whole team. Playing fully manual (cursor change 'air balls'). So it is quite hard to finish chances.

Taken me until the beginning few games of the second season to become a starter. I scored around 15 goals in my first season and am in February of the second and have around 10 in all comps. But I am loving it so far.

Bit dissapinting that the team doesn't buy anybody?! can imagine it will get shit, when you are only playing with youth players later on in your career? (If you stay with the same club). The team line up doesn't seem to change much either? there are injuries etc but I am mainly with the same other 10 players. Like to see a bit more variety.

For instance, I am keeping out Van Persie. But it would be nice to play along side him some games etc.

My VP is still around overall 78-79 I think so I am not improving quickly at all. But I like that.

Also really love the fact they have got rid of the 'goals' for VP at the beggining of the game, like score 3 goals or get a rating of 7 etc.

A few negatives, but I am just playing Fifa for what it is at the moment and am enjoying it.


Best game so far was away to PSG we were losing 2-1 and I got two goals in the last 15mins to win 2-3 :DD was grrrreat!
 
Last edited:
romagnoli said:
Sensi has sod all to do with it. I hate when it's brought up in such a misleading way - it was never a football sim, it was always a highly enjoyable arcade game.

We should not be using Sensi as the benchmark. Nobody judged Battlefield 2 against James Pond.

Footplanting is essential. It's not just aesthetic. It's a visual indicator, a clear moment-by-moment representation of whether a player is able to take another touch or is open to a challenge. Momentum, which is intrinsically related to this as FIFA carries it's momentum within animations at the moment, is key because it is a real world, universally understandable concept that SHOULD allow left stick dribbling to be a natural way of beating players who have overcommitted.

The problem is that FIFA is balancing its responsiveness against the pressuring and physicality, rather than reducing the pressuring and keeping the responsiveness/movement of the players within humanly understandable limits.

So many of the problems in the game would be solved by getting momentum and footplanting right. It's not about being pedantic for the sake of replays, or expecting too much from a video game (an argument I've only ever heard on FIFA forums). It's basic, fundamental football. If you don't have them, then you end up with the sort of mess that constitutes huge swathes of FIFA 11.
Click to expand...

EXACTLY what i was trying to say and I take back what i said in my previous post on the grounds that nerf used Sensi Jedi mindtricks on me.

nerf, I know what you mean here:

nerf said:
I consider it far more important to get the 'feel' of movement just right, rather than worrying too much about where the soles of the feet are. I play from a zoomed out Tele cam, the feet are mere pixels. I want something that responds to my stick-inputs and is well balanced between attacking and defending, something that feels nice to control without being over/under-powered. I could happily settle for how it is now if they just toned down a few of the momentum variables.
Click to expand...

But is not the right way you approach this problem is to build from the real-world concepts of foot planting and momentum? There are some movement issues in FIFA 11, like the "two-footed hop tackle" and the ability to stop and pivot on one leg with little to no penalty of inertia, that i wouod imagine need more than just a few variables adjusted. Toning down a few variables here and there sounds like a stop-gap, bandaid approach to what i would think should be a core part of the game engine.
 
I can see wanting foot planting in, wrong footing players, having to strike with your weaker foot or take an extra step, etc. I understand you wouldn't actually see this from any normal camera, but it would make the game feel much much better.
 
jedimindtrick.jpg


Okay. I guess if foot-planting is literally "essential" and a "core part" and anything without it constitutes a "frightening" "mess", I suppose the last 25 years of football gaming have been a misery. Cripes. I was not aware.

Don't get me wrong, I'm on board with the importance of realistic momentum and how it currently isn't, but if we're genuinely offended by the anim-driven illusion of foot position being less than perfect, then I'm out. Not convinced that's at the top of the list of urgent things I'd like to see improved. I can live with a bit of visual skipping and sliding here and there, as long as the base values feel about right.
 
nerf, you go too far back when making comparisons, it's not really valid in my opinion.

i.e. You make that comment about foot planting in the last 25 years of football gaming when technologically it's only been possible for the last, what, 3 or 4?

People these days complain when they can't get 3G internet connection somewhere, their broadband cuts off etc. should the response be "well, 25 years ago nobody complained about that, you expect too much"? Of course not.
Time moves on, so does technology and hardware, and therefore expecting progress is not expecting "too much".

I'm not too bothered about perfect footplanting, but it's a bit shit when EA did it better 3 years ago though with FIFA 08.
I don't even think the point most people are getting at is the positions of the feet, but rather the superhuman physics-defying agility on show in the game - squaring up to a defender and trying to go by him is completely unnatural in FIFA 11, yes it's possible to beat defenders with perfect timing and usually the right stick knock-ahead but it's all wrong from a footballing perspective.

I've not played a great deal of FIFA 11, but the few times I've played it with mates it has been absolute bollocks, completely unrealistic nonsense with no depth whatsoever. EA could have done so much with what they created in FIFA 08...
 
Yea, sorry, I'm more talking about momentum changes, and things of that nature. Not actually seeing feet hit every single time. I'd just like there to be a build up to speed not 0 and 100, and changes of direction when at full speed should be harder than at walking/jogging pace.
 
I think Nerf was just suggesting that the aethetic qualities of footplanting aren't as necessary as the results of balancing the system as a whole regardless of how it looks.
 
What a nightmare. In my 3 years I have never lost more than 4-5 games in a row. Tonight I lost 10 times in a row.

Conceding bizarre goals. Consistently hitting the post/ Shooting straight at the goalie. I miss the days when I used to rule online with Fifa 09/Fifa 10. My night is ruined.
 
BTW anyone seen the state of the EA forums lately!

It's gone from this!
passion_05_worship_edit.jpg

To this:
images

T28DAYS_LATER169-468.jpg

in just a little over a month !

There's a horde of troll/zombies biting at anyone who likes the game!

Those forums are a abomination!
 
No surprise that people are pissed off that the game was released nearly 6 weeks ago and we're still waiting for the first patch, I'm as dedicated to Fifa as the next guy but I already gave up playing it a couple of weeks ago, no point investing time in CM when I'll be restarting CM once the patch comes out.
 
Getting annoyed with my VP career.

They keep resting me just before really important games, so we end up losing them!

I lost two cup games to chelsea because they were resting me. Another two games I was rested was against City that we lost in the league and another game we lost. I ended up losing the league by 2 points!

Really frustrating!
 
brunnoce said:
These plp above are problaby too busy playing the game like me, instead of spaming the forums ;)
Click to expand...

Dunno, there were far less moaners about with FIFA 08,

defiantly 09 there weren't many moaners at all about the game actually not being up to standard. Everyone just moaned about Manchester United

10 there were moaners, but nowhere near as much as today, every thread is negative :CONFUSE:
 
klashman69 said:
Dunno, there were far less moaners about with FIFA 08,

defiantly 09 there weren't many moaners at all about the game actually not being up to standard. Everyone just moaned about Manchester United

10 there were moaners, but nowhere near as much as today, every thread is negative :CONFUSE:
Click to expand...

Online is a mess. UT is full of cheaters. CM is feature-less and broken.

The state of FIFA is bad. Really really bad.

The FIFA forums have always been relatively poor but right now it's at an all time low - it's hardly worth the effort sifting through all the anger and complaining to find decent posts.

The sad thing is it's not so much the game that's the issue - it's that EA's bullshit gets tiresome. I started playing more FIFA than PES in 08 when the future looked bright for FIFA but while the gameplay has made definite improvements the overall EA package is close to becoming too much of a bother to put up with. This stuff is meant to be fun after all and yet all three of my CM careers died an early, frustrating death. Like Placebo said, we're now into our second month post-release and nothing's been fixed.

The funny yet sad thing is that since release all that EA have done is roll out another game mode... which has its own massive problems that need to be fixed!

Really wish EA would man up and get their goddamn shit together.
 
They just announced the patch release date and a "list" of its contents:

http://forum.ea.com/uk/posts/list/56764.page

easw.EA_FLT said:
FIFA 11 Patch – The Details

First of all, thanks once more for your patience while we’ve taken in all your feedback since the game’s launch. After we received your feedback, the process began to replicate and understand what you were seeing, and then get to work making improvements.

We’re now at the stage of that process where we are able to give you some more detail about what improvements to FIFA 11 you can expect. Sorry we’ve been a bit quiet on this stuff until now, but as you know we can’t really talk about these things until they’re locked down and confirmed.

The patch release dates are November 12th for PS3 and November 17th for Xbox 360.

Also, here’s an overview of the things we’ve done. If you have questions about anything you see here, or want more detail on anything in particular, feel free to post them in this thread and we’ll do our best to answer them.

GAMEPLAY
You’ll now find that the implementation of the offside rule in the game is more accurate, both in terms of when the infringement is called and in terms of player positions when it happens. Occasional strange player positioning at kick-off have also gone away, while shooting from weak volleys has been improved, too. Importantly, so-called ‘micro-pausing’ during gameplay will also be a thing of the past. Overall, your gameplay experience should now be even better.

CAREER MODE
There are a lot of improvements you’ll notice here, which will all further boost the realism of the mode, but in summary: Your match fixtures during the season for cups and leagues, as well as the time of day they all happen, should now be much more realistic. We’ve also improved how accurately player ratings and growth are displayed, as well as making sure the players get the awards they deserve, when they deserve them. Using an odd exploit to secure a whopping $2 billion budget has now gone away, while the emails you receive as a manager will be more appropriate and players you’ve loaned out will now be easier to see and manage.

ONLINE HEAD TO HEAD
Matchmaking will be enhanced, particularly in terms of initially connecting to an opponent, while we’ve removed a couple of exploits that people were using to gain an unfair advantage over their opponents. Also, players will now no longer be able to use Passing Power Assistance in ranked matches.

ONLINE CLUBS
We’ve already made a lot of server-side improvements to the Clubs experience, particularly in terms of matchmaking, match results and progress in Cups. With the game update we’ll be making a range of improvements to stats and league-table presentation, too, as well as improving the camera motion when your player is a long way from the ball.

PRESENTATION
You’ll now find that cut-scenes are improved during substitutions, along with a range of more subtle improvements around of the game.

AUDIO
Creation Centre teams will now benefit from crowd chants, while we’ve improved the custom chants area as well. We’ve also managed to enhance a few audio triggers during gameplay, meaning you’ll get an even better atmosphere as things happen during a match.

CREATION CENTRE
The general performance of the game when it involves teams and players created via the Creation Centre has been improved. Also, you’ll now find that the formations and attributes you set on the web will now transfer more accurately to the console.

FIFA STORE
We’ve made sure that Live Season will be available for multiple users on the same console. Some people who had switched from an inactive XBL account to a Gold Account were having problems seeing the content of the store – we’ve got that covered, too.

KITS
Lincoln City and Montpellier fans, your teams’ kits should now be right on the money.
Click to expand...

Can't say I'm particularly impressed TBH:

xbox.Placebo PRS said:
That's the list we've been waiting so long for? You can't even bother going into detail about what the fixes are? Career Mode "There are a lot of improvements you’ll notice here"? What about an actual list of what's fixed/improved? Or haven't you done anything about the many bugs we reported such as unrealistically increasing board expectations for example? Is there now player of the month/year when only playing in manager mode? What about all the other stuff? To hold this list back for nigh on two weeks is shocking.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom