quiet_riot
Welcome To Manchester
37MB patch 1.02 has just downloaded....wonder what it does!?
Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3
- Thread starter jonneymendoza
- Start date
nerf
Forming triangles
it's quite clear to me, from a programming point of view.
All due respect to your knowledge of programming, but I see nothing wrong in that video from a footballing point of view. The defender was jockying and you played the ball three yards away from him and into his path. The ball was further away from you and you were trying to make a sharp turn and push passed the defender (no chance). Good defending, excellent clearance to.
This game is breathtakingly good. Don't get frustrated, take your time in practice mode where their is a lot less pressure, take one aspect of the game at a time and experiment to no end, it'll take time to understand the mechanics of the game but once you do you'll progress quickly. It'll take much longer however to be able to do in a game mode what you are able to do in practice.
StuartCulli
College Dropout
- 25 July 2006
- Newcastle United
Can't find UT anywhere?
quiet_riot
Welcome To Manchester
Nice to see they have their priorities right.
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
UT doesn't go live until the 3rd. The patch is in preparation for that and is only related to UT. No gameplay/gamemode fixes.
Jumbo_
-
UT is how you make a shit game shitter.
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
@drekkard has this happened to you in the full game?
http://www.ea.com/uk/football/videos/ugc/36545945
This is what you mean by the mechanics right! By making players ignore the laws of physics! Yeah it's a bug in a way but showing the problem with the mechanics dosen't factor in foot plating at all!
Also people defending the AI saying they don't cheat are right, they don't 'cheat' It's just these people like drekka re correct in that they hate the mechnics in the game which helps and hinders you in a highly inrealsitic way:
Look at this video here:
http://www.ea.com/uk/football/videos/ugc/37839131
There's nothing right about it! The defender stops from a full sprint turns without factoring realsitic foot placement or inertia and gets the ball easily as if he's skating!
I've tackled players with stuff like this favoring me, but do i like it, hell no it's crap!
http://www.ea.com/uk/football/videos/ugc/36545945
This is what you mean by the mechanics right! By making players ignore the laws of physics! Yeah it's a bug in a way but showing the problem with the mechanics dosen't factor in foot plating at all!
Also people defending the AI saying they don't cheat are right, they don't 'cheat' It's just these people like drekka re correct in that they hate the mechnics in the game which helps and hinders you in a highly inrealsitic way:
Look at this video here:
http://www.ea.com/uk/football/videos/ugc/37839131
There's nothing right about it! The defender stops from a full sprint turns without factoring realsitic foot placement or inertia and gets the ball easily as if he's skating!
I've tackled players with stuff like this favoring me, but do i like it, hell no it's crap!
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klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
Some friends came over to our house, they brought FIFA 11 with them Now bearing in mind that that i've played barley any FIFA 11 (full game) (played a lot of the demo though and i played against a friend totally addicted to the game. I won 2-1 using Wolfsburg vs Arsenal (missed loads of chances.)
Basically i wanted to see how bad the pressure was, how easy lofted through balls were and how poor the personality was.
Well the fact the reserve striker rated 61 was making world class reflex saves! My defense which was basically just a load of reserve midfield and striker players stuck there, yet it was so easy to tackle! The amount of 1 on 1s in te game, i lost count and the personality? Where? I didn't see any! No player stood out at all. Personality plus like i pretty much knew is the option to use certain gimmicks with some players, nothing more! There's little or no need to use them!
The defining thing was my mate playing as arsenal was saying (I'm struggling to counter, i need to get those counter going).
Playing vs mates it's intense, fun and additive but again, about as much depth as a wet sock!
Seriously has anyone not tried sticking average players in goal and seeing them make world class saves! Does anyone not see that as bizarre?
and I'm not even going to talk about my 1-0 win on legendary vs United. Nani had a 1 on 1 easy chance and stead did stupid stepovers giving my 'defender' or reserve striker to come back and take the ball off him with a superman tackle!
Basically i wanted to see how bad the pressure was, how easy lofted through balls were and how poor the personality was.
Well the fact the reserve striker rated 61 was making world class reflex saves! My defense which was basically just a load of reserve midfield and striker players stuck there, yet it was so easy to tackle! The amount of 1 on 1s in te game, i lost count and the personality? Where? I didn't see any! No player stood out at all. Personality plus like i pretty much knew is the option to use certain gimmicks with some players, nothing more! There's little or no need to use them!
The defining thing was my mate playing as arsenal was saying (I'm struggling to counter, i need to get those counter going).
Playing vs mates it's intense, fun and additive but again, about as much depth as a wet sock!
Seriously has anyone not tried sticking average players in goal and seeing them make world class saves! Does anyone not see that as bizarre?
and I'm not even going to talk about my 1-0 win on legendary vs United. Nani had a 1 on 1 easy chance and stead did stupid stepovers giving my 'defender' or reserve striker to come back and take the ball off him with a superman tackle!
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
Yeah, I gotta agree that keepers are a tad too good, especially the lower rated keepers. I don't know if the problem is they make too many unbelievable saves or not enough mistake, or both? Maybe not enough variety? Also, I think i'd like to see keepers make more attempted saves, get a touch on the ball, but the ball still goes in. Seems like if the keeper can get a fingertip on the ball, it won't be going in.
Thoughts?
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
The problem is like the players, keepers don't adhere to the laws of physics either, especially when rushing out. Their foot-planting is such that they can turn at full speed without having to shift their balance! It's hard to unbalance keepers on this game and get round them. You have to dribble round them at the angle Placebo did in that video he upoaded which looks silly (ball glued to the player stuff), the keepers.
Of course i can score without too many problems just it's crap isn't it!
For Keepers! Stats don't seem to mean anything. Doesn't matter if you put Michael Owen in goal he will still be able to make the same saves Cech does!
They are made so good in a very cheap way to cut down the easy goals from through balls, 1 on 1ns' etc.. I find them the CPU ones to be highly scripted aswell! There are certian longshots which can be saved but instead their either dive backwards and miss it or just watch it float in!
On the world cup game were fine just the game was so mind numbing predictable it was easy to do the same stuff all the time! Some they turned them into superman for FIFA 11! So like i said, the CPU don't cheat in their movement, you can do that stuff seen int he videos which the CPU does. Realistic Foot planting isn't configured in this game, hence why everyone is able to skate around so easily. I don't have problems playing ti, it's very easy to play and get used to, i just find it boring, predictable and shit after 3-4 games! If i don't enjoy winning, why play?
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Scutch
Futsal Master
Was playing against my mate earlier - offline 1 on 1 at his house, and I scored one of the best goals I've ever scored. Tottenham vs Manchester United, I picked the ball up in the middle of the pitch with van der Vaart and was surrounded by 3 or 4 United players. I used RT to hold off the first challenge, turning my back on the opposition midfielder. Then using a combination of LT and the right analogue to do a skill move, I performed the trick that Berbatov did on the goal line against West Ham to set up Ronaldo a couple of seasons back. This completely took out his midfielders pressuring van der Vaart, I then continued on towards goal, running past and taking on a full back who had came inside to cut me off. I got to the edge of the area and slid the ball through to Defoe who took it, back to goal and then turned and placed it low in at the near post. I was up out of my seat as my mate just put his head in his hands. The skill and run by van der Vaart was just incredible.
The only problem was the replay was too short to show my skills, so I didn't bother uploading. You'd have thought they would have increased the length of replays over the years.
The game can be brilliant against a friend.
The only problem was the replay was too short to show my skills, so I didn't bother uploading. You'd have thought they would have increased the length of replays over the years.
The game can be brilliant against a friend.
Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Luton Town
Okay I think I must have a mental block about these headed goals I'm letting in!
Nerf, I've tried your advice about using jostle to move your defender into a good position, but I'm still conceding goals. At first it used to be just every so often, now I'm conceding a goal from a header every single match, and I'm really not exaggerating. I drew 3-3 in one game and all three headers I conceded were identical.
I tried also switching the cursor switching options to manual, it seemed to help a little until the AI threw me this little beauty. This video totally sums up my problems, this is happening all the time now. You can see in the video below that I had control of Fabio pretty much the entire time here. I moved him in front of the attacker, tried closing the cross using the team mate press button, and patiently waited for the inevitable cross.
Now, the problem with these crosses is that I am getting in defensive positions, but when the cross comes in the AI seems to be almost disabling my player for a split second. As you can see in this video, Fabio may be defending against a bigger attacker, but he has the angle cut out, but yet again the ball comes across and despite me desperately trying to jump and head the ball, the game just doesn't react, and Fabio looks like he's already gone off on his holidays. He just doesn't attempt in any way to try and win the ball despite me telling him to jump and head the ball away. No challenge whatsoever. To add to this, the attacker gets in a position in front of Fabio right at the last moment, and right in the middle of my player seemingly becoming disabled for a second or two.
This happens all the time, but ONLY when the AI crosses into the box. In all other areas of the pitch, including when I'm attacking, I can jump and head, or at least challenge for the ball, but so many times this happens and the AI just gets a free header. It's got to the point now where even if I'm winning 4-0 and have had a great attacking game, all the enjoyment goes out the window when the AI gets one of these goals every single time I play the game.
What am I doing wrong? I can't make the player jump for the ball any more than by pressing the button to do so. I can score good headers at the other end, but in my own box it's a different story.
Here's the vid to show what I mean (click on the title, these stupid EA site links don't work here!)
West Brom 2 – 1 Manchester Utd | EA SPORTS
Nerf, I've tried your advice about using jostle to move your defender into a good position, but I'm still conceding goals. At first it used to be just every so often, now I'm conceding a goal from a header every single match, and I'm really not exaggerating. I drew 3-3 in one game and all three headers I conceded were identical.
I tried also switching the cursor switching options to manual, it seemed to help a little until the AI threw me this little beauty. This video totally sums up my problems, this is happening all the time now. You can see in the video below that I had control of Fabio pretty much the entire time here. I moved him in front of the attacker, tried closing the cross using the team mate press button, and patiently waited for the inevitable cross.
Now, the problem with these crosses is that I am getting in defensive positions, but when the cross comes in the AI seems to be almost disabling my player for a split second. As you can see in this video, Fabio may be defending against a bigger attacker, but he has the angle cut out, but yet again the ball comes across and despite me desperately trying to jump and head the ball, the game just doesn't react, and Fabio looks like he's already gone off on his holidays. He just doesn't attempt in any way to try and win the ball despite me telling him to jump and head the ball away. No challenge whatsoever. To add to this, the attacker gets in a position in front of Fabio right at the last moment, and right in the middle of my player seemingly becoming disabled for a second or two.
This happens all the time, but ONLY when the AI crosses into the box. In all other areas of the pitch, including when I'm attacking, I can jump and head, or at least challenge for the ball, but so many times this happens and the AI just gets a free header. It's got to the point now where even if I'm winning 4-0 and have had a great attacking game, all the enjoyment goes out the window when the AI gets one of these goals every single time I play the game.
What am I doing wrong? I can't make the player jump for the ball any more than by pressing the button to do so. I can score good headers at the other end, but in my own box it's a different story.
Here's the vid to show what I mean (click on the title, these stupid EA site links don't work here!)
West Brom 2 – 1 Manchester Utd | EA SPORTS
Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Luton Town
Oh and add one last thing, the game ended 2-2 despite me yet again having 60% of the ball, and 8 shots on target to the AI's 3. The AI seems to just soak it up somehow and kick you in the teeth with stuff like this!
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
LTFC the alarming thing for me in this video is that the West Brom player quite literally goes though Fabio's Torso to score the goal!
Freeze it at 0:07 to see I would like to see ibra's explanation, should be fun
Freeze it at 0:07 to see I would like to see ibra's explanation, should be fun
Suuuuupertalk
International
- 17 August 2010
- Luton Town
True, the goal came in the 90th minute too, which only compounded the idea that the AI just 'decided' shall we say that it was going to get a goal. I'm not saying it directly 'cheated' going back to the earlier conversation, but it for sure decided that I wasn't going to be able to compete for the header in the most vital area of the pitch. Yet again 
On the plus side, Rooney broke clear almost straight from the restart and scored a last gasp equalizer But the game still feels broken somehow thanks to the header fiasco.
Check out Rooney's burst into the area and goal with the last kick of the game. Class!
West Brom 2 – 2 Manchester Utd | EA SPORTS
On the plus side, Rooney broke clear almost straight from the restart and scored a last gasp equalizer
But the game still feels broken somehow thanks to the header fiasco.Check out Rooney's burst into the area and goal with the last kick of the game. Class!
West Brom 2 – 2 Manchester Utd | EA SPORTS
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did you press pass or shoot when trying to win that header. The commands are tottaly different. Looks like you pressed the pass button, hence the attempt to cushion the header. However their is a real problem in that video, which is your teammate who just stood their doing absolutely nothing while his man cut inside only to deliver a cross while he was wide open. If you're controlling someone away from the ball as you were then the AI should at least cover his man - unfortunatley this is one the main problems in the game.
Nice goal by the way. Interesting that your playing with Man U, how many games have they fluffed this season, West Brom only had two shots on target all game and they scored both to finish 2-2, Everton scored 2 goals in injury time, this stuff happens. When I have a recoccuring problem like that I focus all my effort on not letting it happen again, once I realize that it is possible to overcome it this gives me confidence to deal with it without making it my main focus.
LTFC the alarming thing for me in this video is that the West Brom player quite literally goes though Fabio's Torso to score the goal!
Freeze it at 0:07 to see I would like to see ibra's explanation, should be fun
Klashman, I'm only trying to help. their are some glaring errors in the game needless to say, but most complaints I see are from a lack of ability or understanding of how the game works. I find your signature quite ironic by the way. We could get in to detail about the video you posted, but on the balance of things I think that was a pretty dismall turn and the attacker desrved to lose possession.
It's not enough to know how football or real life physics work but you have to learn how the game itself works, if it's not worth it for you then I can understand that, for me it does the simulation job quite well.
LTFC problem is a good example, I simply don't concede goals on headers very often. I must be doing something different then he is, that's not EA's fault.
Their are too many issues for me to judge exactly what's happening to people but their are questions that everyone needs to ask themselves before blaming the game.
conceding goals late? Are you bothering to changes your tactics based on the situation, if not then you're not doing your job as manager.
- Are you playing 4-3-3 just b/c your team does in real life? maybe your not good enough for 4-3-3 or you don't understand what it takes to play that formation, try a simpler formation, a straight 4-4-2 for starters if you're having trouble, that's all part of being a manager. The problem is too many people don't want to pay attention to detail and then expect to go unpunished, everything you do matters.
Trying to control a game against an inferior team? make sure your defensive line is set to offside not contain. When you lose possession, if you contain your teammates will give the opposing team too much space.
On the other hand, are you overwhelmed by the pace of the game such that you are "loosing your shape" defensively and being exposed, then you need to contain.
For a long time I thought that free form would get my players to move the way I wanted them to, only to discover that organized build up works better for me. This is probably because I'm not good enough to play free form which requires triggering your own runs far more often then organized. If I start to get good at triggering my own runs constantly (including delivery) I may switch back but for now I'm still trying to master the basics (passing, dribbling, etc). I have no time to worry about triggering runs, I need my teammates to make those obvious expected runs that they don't make under free form.
How do you react to substitutions? do you play the same way home and away?
Do you ever play for a draw? If not, then you need to ask yourself how realistic you want this game to be. Well thought out and executed strategy is important offesnively/defensively and with every turn of events and progression of the game.
Besides the obvious shortcomings of the game, the AI is drastically improved and is on the right track. Too many people are really missing the point and not appreciating how good this game is, at least on legendary as I have never tried the other difficulties.
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Yeah I asked the same question to Gary on the EA forum some time ago. He basically put the blame on the 360 for replays being so short. I said how can that be? We had longer replays on the PS one! He took offence to that. He then added that he reckons the replays will be longer in FIFA 11 than 10! Basically just more bullshit.
I just couldn't get my head around what he was saying, someone made comment that you could replay a full round of halo from start to finish. Sounds laughable when you compare 10 minutes of replay to 4 seconds!
I've ended up buying a Hauppage PVR for $350. Just putting a goals compilation together at present... need a few more nicer goals though.
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
One match doesn't prove anything but I just played with an outfielder in goal and he did pretty damn well. I was Porto against Man City on Legendary. I put Porto's lowest rated outfielder in goal which was a 69 rated fullback. In goal his ovr was 13.
He let in 2 goals. One was by Tevez that nobody would stop, and the other was a pretty simple finesse ground shot that was def stoppable. In addition he had two fantastic saves, with one of them a save he had no right making.
I had two nice goals myself so at 2-2 we went to penalties, where i won after my keeper blocked 5(!) shots, allowing two.
Like i said, one match proves nothing for certain, however if I hadn't known better I'd never guess by his play that my keeper was rated only 13!
nerf
Forming triangles
Like Ibra said, it looks like Fabio is attempting a standing cushion header rather than attacking the ball. Maybe there's a combination of reasons for this. Think about:
1) The button you press. Are you telling him to clear it or pass to a teammate? I always use Shoot for contested headers.
2) The timing of the button press. Maybe you pressed it too late and he didn't have time to set himself for the jump?
3) Try to make your last stick movement towards the ball, if possible, rather than away, so you can attack the ball like Chris Brunt did.
Personally I find it worthwhile to control the player defending the potential crosser, so I can block it myself rather than overcommitting with Secondary Pressure. I then have my selection set to Air Balls (low) so it will switch to my other defender if the cross does come in.
I've had a huge amount of fun over the last few days fiddling with all of the stats. Get a player, and edit some of his stats down to 1. So many of them barely make any difference at all it's extraordinary.
Sprint speed, which used to be the all important stat, is now so irrelevant it's hilarious. The difference between a player with 1 speed (far slower than any player in the game), and 99 (a bit faster than any player in the game) is about realistic for what Walcott does to more or less every wingback in the league. This, by the way, is the reason people think the CPU can cheat with speed - it can't - it's just you have to be about 30 points faster on sprint speed to be able to get away by the slightest amount if you have the ball at your feet.
Whilst more stats do something than before, many stats do very little, still. Personality+ was a bit of a crock, really. I think they could do with rebuilding their stats system. Too many stats which make almost no difference - some which make far too much - some which are absolutely mutated from reality.
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nerf
Forming triangles
Yep, agree. I think the only aspect of P+ that really worked to any significant degree is the new Work Rate attributes, and they even managed to screw that up by not rolling the database changes out to the lower-ranked clubs (where everyone just has medium-medium).
I'm playing with Newcastle at the moment, and it does make a clear difference to me whether I pick Carroll/Ameobi or Lovenkrands up front. Lovenkrands' higher attacking work rate sends him on a lot more runs into the channels than either of the two taller strikers. Something I picked up straight away in the demo was the attacking intent of Dani Alves (high) compared to Abidal (low). So that part works, if they spent some effort on bringing the rest of the database up to scratch.
But there's still not enough differentiation between the normal numbered attributes, like you say. Slightly better than it used to be, but not enough. I've been hoping in vain for a shift to 1-20 attributes rather than 1-99, but if the min and max extremes aren't different enough then it still wouldn't change much.
Something I would really like to see is different behavioural templates. So every player in the database would be assigned a type according to his position (central midfielders might be 'playmaker', 'ball-winner', 'box-to-box' and so on) and this would dictate their behaviour, their decision making, their style of movement off the ball, their tendencies basically. Then you'd feel some differences between players rather than whether they have five points more in Shot Power or something.
Chuck in weaker-foot frequency and some meaningful Traits and all the above might make P+ worthwhile.
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
It wasn't a great turn but my beef is with the defender! Mate, please if your playing in a Sunday league or out the park, try sprinting at full speed for 20-30 meters then stopping, making a sharp turn then making a challenge. Needless to say it's a lot harder than the defender on FIFA 11 there made it look!
I agree, yes, as you have worked out (kudos) You are doing a good job of explaining how the game works and you understand it. I happy you see i understand how it work too, i just hate how it works, and just pointing out flaws here and there so Romangoli will pass them to the dev's.
For me it does a terrible job at recreating a simulation!
Good point
Kinda subjective to what kind of 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 your playing?
still good point
Hmm wouldn't the contain help you counter though? Also using offside trap would make you play a high line inviting a soft goal maybe?
I don't really know what free form does anymore, on 09 it worked well with the patient build up but i don't think it really has much use in 11
U playing on Manual or something?
Thing is with FIFA i personally have never found myself up against such a strong opposition that i went out to play for a draw. I don't find the AI defensively to be very tough, i find it easy to breakdown, it's too vulnerable to easy flaws! Same flaws almost from 09 and 10!
We have to now agree to disagree
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
That means stripping down and rebuilding the whole engine again!
mfmaxpower
International
- 29 July 2010
Wow that's pretty damning stuff, surely it's not that bad? We need more examples but if it's as bad as you're saying - and the problem extends beyond speed - then this would need to be a massive priority.
Although just the fact that they'd allow a game to be released with stats being so irrelevant basically pulls the rug out from under any credibility they may have earned in recent years in the realism/sim department.
I've yet to play around with creation centre so maybe a thing to do is create some teams with extremely skewed attributes and see how they fare?
Other than pace what attributes have you found make liitle or no difference?
It's my understanding that the game engine is made up of many smaller systems, each basically engines themselves. So no, like he said they'd just need to redo the stats system/engine.
This was basically Seabass's explanation for why Konami didn't rebuild their engine from scratch for the new gen consoles like FIFA did. Even if Konami's approach turned out not to be the correct one, my point is that just because one of the game's subsystems isn't working correctly doesn't mean you've got to scrap the whole engine and start over.
If I'm wrong please correct me but that's my understanding of things based on what others have said who seem to know what they're taking about.
Jimmy G-Force
Resident PES Fanman
You see this is exactly what I believe an Engine to be in a football game. The system that calculates all these variables and plays out the results on screen. This for me has always been the truly clever stuff. Then again, what I know about computer programming you could fit on the back of a midgets postage stamp.
klashman69
Fight the Power!
- 28 November 2007
Nah i didn't mean start from scratch i meant rebuild then thing! It's different' starting from scratch means discarding everything and making the game again.
I mean taking everything apart and rebuilding it! making a game based on stats like i said int he PM, it's about making every single animation and set of animations represent a calculation of the players stats! also making also all the stats actually affect the player!
Like i have been saying FIFA's nice animations, many of them are not affected by stats at ALL!!! The tricks are the perfect example
So like i said, if the game is to develop more depth many animations will have to go!