Fifa 11 Xbox 360/PS3

drekkard said:
It's quite obvious that PES has better understanding of weight shifting, inertia, foot planting and a better representation of how they work in real world. That's why you can wrong foot a player in PES and you can't in Fifa.

That's notimplying PES is perfect. It's got tons of flaws and technical shortcomings, but the ideas are more powerful and potentially can lead to a much realistic recreation of the sport both at the individual level and the team level.

In Fifa I can dribble a lot. In Fifa11 I've very quickly achieved a great skill in dribbling, don't know why. I dribbled 4 CPU players and scored with Nantes at WC difficulty in CM tonight, something I couldn't do before. I'm talking about CLOSE QUARTERS dribblings. It takes only the left stick and great timing to pass through people.

But, that said, if you analyzed my 4 dribble play, you would see all players skating around, some of the real world forces are blatantly ignored. For example, inertia sometimes is unexistant and players can change direction in a dime, or even WHILE doing a step. That's impossible in real life and that's the reason why Fifa players seem to float over the floor. There's no proper foot planting (we know 360 has some guilt here), no wieght involved and no proper acceleration and speed taken into account. I've seen CPU players come totally accelerated WHILE turning WHILE doing a step WHILE controlling the ball. Too much to bear, mate.

PES, on the other side, will punish you for not taking some things into account. If you begin to turn towards a direction you have to time well the moment to shift wieght and turn the other side. When you do it well, you can break your opponent's hip in what consitutes a much better reward than performing stupid tricks in any of both games. PES dribbling is very good and I think there's a consensus over its more "realistic" approach.

That doesn't make it better as a "game" or more "fun". You can hve for fun with the dirbble system that you want, but implying Fifa players move around more realistically would be simply nonsense.

By the way:
- Played 4 more CM matches. Still not a single injury.
- I deliberately did NO SUBSTITUTIONS in any match, and I didn't notice anything nor I felt any bad sign in any of my players. I've won all matches at WC difficulty and lead the League2 of france with Nantes with the same 11 guys...
- Headers are great and beautiful, but you end up scoring 8 headers for every goal you score with your feet. Goalkeepers are still great to stop your best shots but headers seem to get them by surprise.
Click to expand...

From seeing videos of Pes it seems the players are more lethargic (if that's the right word) when a player is running towards them. In Klashmans clip (which was very good by the way) players seem to stand off more and seemed to allow you to take them on more successfully? (in relation to fifa)

Fifas dribbling is good imo and i'm sure Pes is great, but I can understand where adelante is coming from. Fifa and with proper 360 movement does have a good system in place and is in some ways better. But I can understand why people think pes is better aswell as klashmans video is a great exampple of a good dribbling system.

But to say that categorically one is much better than the other is subjective really. If adelante feels it is better, then he is right. Because that is how he feels.

Anyway, doesn't really matter :))
 
It's a good debate really, i do feel i need to even make a video to explain the difference between the two :)

Just when going back and forth between fifa and PES. FIFA's dribbling just felt a bit wrong, i studied i which lead to the observation.

Also for the 'lethargic PES defenders. Its a gift and a little curse.

Just like in real life but unfortunately not on FIFA. In PES defenders love to back up and squeeze the space rather than rugby tackle and pressure. Also combined with the excellent defensive positions it's why defender are less aggressive in apperance4 on PES because even if i get past, there' still not much space in behind! The problem is well,look on youtube for 'PES nightmare' Otherwise know as the 'Green Zone' Bug :)
 
drekkard said:
By the way:
- Played 4 more CM matches. Still not a single injury.
- I deliberately did NO SUBSTITUTIONS in any match, and I didn't notice anything nor I felt any bad sign in any of my players. I've won all matches at WC difficulty and lead the League2 of france with Nantes with the same 11 guys...
- Headers are great and beautiful, but you end up scoring 8 headers for every goal you score with your feet. Goalkeepers are still great to stop your best shots but headers seem to get them by surprise.
Click to expand...

I've had plenty of injuries. Tevez and Balotelli got injured for 42 and 56 days respectively which forced me to play Adebayor and Santa Cruz upfront.... and my performances actually picked up :BOP:

Agreed about the headers. Too many headed goals.
 
BobbyBox said:
From seeing videos of Pes it seems the players are more lethargic (if that's the right word) when a player is running towards them. In Klashmans clip (which was very good by the way) players seem to stand off more and seemed to allow you to take them on more successfully? (in relation to fifa)

Fifas dribbling is good imo and i'm sure Pes is great, but I can understand where adelante is coming from. Fifa and with proper 360 movement does have a good system in place and is in some ways better. But I can understand why people think pes is better aswell as klashmans video is a great exampple of a good dribbling system.

But to say that categorically one is much better than the other is subjective really. If adelante feels it is better, then he is right. Because that is how he feels.

Anyway, doesn't really matter :))
Click to expand...

I was stating pes i s closer to the real world. You can prefer fifa dribbling of course, but it obviously ignores some laws of physics. Pes may have its big problems, like low awareness in some instances, but seems to care more in recreating real world basics. I prefer pes system but have fun with fifa too.
 
More early random impressions after just a handful of exhibitions:

Keeping possession seems slightly easier than in the demo. Dribbling feels more powerful, and the pressure is not so intense in the games I've played. You definitely get some assistance on manual with the better passers, showing that stats do count to some extent with manual controls.

Tackling also seems easier than in the demo...

...On that note, I have something for you to try against the CPU: ban yourself from using the A button (pass/pressure) when defending. Simply never touch that button when the other team has the ball. It's difficult at first because it's probably ingrained in you to press it, but try to keep your thumb away. And preferably don't use the secondary pressure either. It's a fun experiment to discover how the game would feel if those hold-to-charge buttons were removed (i.e. better!). Without it, you really have to time carefully when you move in for the ball, and appreciate more those defenders with a large tackling radius.

Custom Audio is pretty cool if you can get it working. Hearing Barca emerge to their hymn (Barca! Barca! Baaaar-ca!) is great. I want to play away at Goodison and run out to Z-Cars next...

I think the crowd is much improved in general, with appropriate oohs and aahs better reflecting the action. There was one occasion when Warnock was penalised for handball while blocking a cross, and the home crowd greeted the award of a free-kick with a loud chorus of boos.

The AI seems a bit too eager to go forward, I can imagine myself attempting some custom tactics Build-Up Speed reduction at some future time.
 
Last edited:
klashman69 said:
No headed goals in FIFA 10

Too many in FIFA 11

Fine example of how EA can never get the balance right :)
Click to expand...

Yeah it is true.

But In real life if you have a close range header and it is on target on the goal. It is very hard for a keeper to save, unless it is headed right near the keeper. As it is extrememly hard for a keeper to predict the direction in which the ball is going to come off of a players head.

So in some instances if you get a header on target then i think the percentage of it going in is greater than with alot of shots (as the keeper can usually make a educated guess relying on pace of player, position etc etc when regarding a shot)

but yeah if the ratio of headers is like people are saying, then it is obviously not realistic.

Is the amount of headers what people are scoring or the computer? be interesting to know?
 
Just had a great evening with this.

Had some belting games, i think the teams do feel different. I played blackburn and they were strong and direct. I drew 1-1 in a hard fought game that saw the ball drop to pedersen on the edge and he smashed in top corner. After the game i puffed my cheeks i had to work hard against them.

Then played Man Utd in the cup and Nani owned me. It finished 2-2 in normal time and i won 3-2 in et. Great match again.

Played Blackpool at WHL and they defended deep it was nigh on impossible to break through then in the 90th i get a bit space after switxhing modric to the right and he swings over a deep cross that van der vaart converts i was up off my seat.

Here is the goal - Link

Also a free kick i scored which i thought was ace lol

Link
 
Hm...seems like stamina does not affect performance that much, unfortunately in both games this year. In FIFA I see almost no effect except for players bending from time to time. In PES I see the effect only if I try to kick the ball ahead (push RT multiple times) and the effect is relatively minimal. Is it so hard to get EA and KONAMI? ...
 
I had a few manual games online - a couple of crackers and two very dull pressurefests.

Scored a couple of beauties to win 2-0 as Sampdoria - the first was a diagonal pass in from the left by Ziegler to Cassano just on the edge of the box. Cassano had been running wide but the pass caused him to check back in. His first touch knocked the ball infield of the defender, before lashing a vicious right foot effort in at the far post. Keeper was clutching at air. Delicious.

The second goal was astounding teamwork. Everything just came together. The thing is it was a complete blur. I think it involved some neat passing work on the right followed by a curling lobbed pass out to the right wing; crossed the ball on the bouncing volley onto the head of a salmon-like Pazzini.

I think that's what happened anyway. I tried to watch the replay in the highlights. 5 seconds. Jesus wept. Just dump the whole thing to the hard drive and let us watch the entire match back. That's what happens in SP on PS3 (for FIFA 10 at least). So infuriating.
 
BobbyBox said:
Yeah it is true.

But In real life if you have a close range header and it is on target on the goal. It is very hard for a keeper to save, unless it is headed right near the keeper. As it is extrememly hard for a keeper to predict the direction in which the ball is going to come off of a players head.

So in some instances if you get a header on target then i think the percentage of it going in is greater than with alot of shots (as the keeper can usually make a educated guess relying on pace of player, position etc etc when regarding a shot)

but yeah if the ratio of headers is like people are saying, then it is obviously not realistic.

Is the amount of headers what people are scoring or the computer? be interesting to know?
Click to expand...

I'm in December and about 75% of the goals I've conceded in CM have been headers.
A lesser % have been headers from me but that's partly because I try not to score those types of goals - mainly because it feels abit like cheating. Stoke are in the top 4, and were top for quite a while, which says it all really :SMUG:


Also just installed the patch. It does feel faster. I was getting behind their defense much easier. :(
 
Last edited:
Weatherley said:
I'm in December and about 75% of the goals I've conceded in CM have been headers.
A lesser % have been headers from me but that's partly because I try not to score those types of goals - mainly because it feels abit like cheating. Stoke are in the top 4, and were top for quite a while, which says it all really :SMUG:
Click to expand...

That is shit then. Especially the stoke thing, as they said the tables would be more realistic this year.

I thought the header thing might not be that bad, if the computer hardly did it, but that doesn't seem to be the case?

Anybody else notice the tables being shit?
 
BobbyBox said:
That is shit then. Especially the stoke thing, as they said the tables would be more realistic this year.

I thought the header thing might not be that bad, if the computer hardly did it, but that doesn't seem to be the case?

Anybody else notice the tables being shit?
Click to expand...

In my first go the top four were Chelsea, Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool ... except Liverpool were top. I got sacked in November so didn't see how it finished :P

On my 2nd go (current go) Wolves have bought Van Buyten :SHOCK:
 
Weatherley said:
In my first go the top four were Chelsea, Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool ... except Liverpool were top. I got sacked in November so didn't see how it finished :P

On my 2nd go (current go) Wolves have bought Van Buyten :SHOCK:
Click to expand...

No Way?! Liverpool top?! fuck you EA you knobs!! that's even worse than Stoke in the top 4 ;))
 
For me the headers seem to be fine. I've scored only a single one so far with Bruno Alves (out of about 15-20 games I've played), kinda similar to the one he scored yesterday IRL against AEK :) CPU also didn't score that many headed goals as Alves and Lombaerts clean up most of the lobbed passes quite easily, like they should.

Here's a nice goal I've scored after a long lobbed pass from Bruno Alves to Lukovic and then a dribble around the defender by Kerzhakov.
http://www.ea.com/uk/football/videos/ugc/39287092
 
BobbyBox said:
No Way?! Liverpool top?! fuck you EA you knobs!! that's even worse than Stoke in the top 4 ;))
Click to expand...

Simmed the whole season (can't believe I'm actually playing MM right now) because my Gourcuff bid to United failed and I couldn't try again until the following season (?). I get fired from United for finishing 7th and get picked up by Arsenal, who finished 2nd or 3rd in the league. Chelsea finshed either 2nd or 3rd as well. Wondered who won the league...Next season Everton and Villa are in the CL. Not sure who it was but I can only believe Villa breaking into the top 4. Still not sure how United drop to 7th after selling Owen.
 
Just had my first online game of fifa 11 (manual, slow, 6 min halves). It ended a drab 0-0 between city (me) and Spurs (i forget his name)

It really was slow paced. Not at all like the videos I've seen. The speed was a little too slow if anything... tho we didn't press each other like maniacs

And I've added you Merc, whoever you are :D
 
CUSTOM AUDIO IS BROKE - keep getting Arsenal chants playing in other non Arsenal games. And I've double checked the settings etc. It's a bug that a lot of people have complained about. So until this is fixed I'm not gonna bother customising my audio coz hearing millwall fans sing "arsenal pass the ball" while they r playing man city is just totally fucking shit. Add the crappy replay theatre which is a complete waste of time and that's 2 new features that are totally crap. Not happy that every year we seem to be doing EAs game testing for them. So many bugs. Anyone else get audio go weirdly quiet when making subs??
 
nerf said:
I did try swapping them, and Alves still got forward far more than Abidal. Their natural tendency makes a difference. Quite how much any subsequent tactical instructions modifies that (by empowering or restricting them), it's hard to say at this stage. But I'm definitely seeing work rate doing its thing in various positions.
Click to expand...
@PLF on the above subject. Just had a look at the Edit Formation screen... there's now an additional option under Work-Rate called 'Default'. So you can set a position to have Low/Medium/High/DEFAULT work-rate for attack and defence, where default tells them to use their natural behaviour. All of Barcelona's are set to Default. I'll take a guess that all the CPU formations will most likely be set up that way. Like it :)
 
I noticed that too, nerf.

It's a cool new little addition.

So you can get a player to act how he normally would or as the coach give him instructions otherwise. I have a couple wingers who have 'low' defensive work-rate for example and if I leave them to default, they just won't track back and get me in trouble. So I have to manually assign them 'normal' defensive work-rate to make sure those lazy bastards don't just want the ball when we're in possession and do fuck-all, otherwise. Very realistic as this is a common theme for real life managers and players like C. Ronaldo, etc. ;)
 
WILDSTER180774 said:
CUSTOM AUDIO IS BROKE - keep getting Arsenal chants playing in other non Arsenal games. And I've double checked the settings etc. It's a bug that a lot of people have complained about. So until this is fixed I'm not gonna bother customising my audio coz hearing millwall fans sing "arsenal pass the ball" while they r playing man city is just totally fucking shit. Add the crappy replay theatre which is a complete waste of time and that's 2 new features that are totally crap. Not happy that every year we seem to be doing EAs game testing for them. So many bugs. Anyone else get audio go weirdly quiet when making subs??
Click to expand...

Yea, same arsenal bug here aswell.

The weirdest chant bug i've had is utd fans singing "ooh ahh cantona" after I've just beaten Newcastle at home with City. I haven't even assigned the Utd chant playlist into fifa yet! :/
 
drekkard said:
It's quite obvious that PES has better understanding of weight shifting, inertia, foot planting and a better representation of how they work in real world. That's why you can wrong foot a player in PES and you can't in Fifa.

That's notimplying PES is perfect. It's got tons of flaws and technical shortcomings, but the ideas are more powerful and potentially can lead to a much realistic recreation of the sport both at the individual level and the team level.

In Fifa I can dribble a lot. In Fifa11 I've very quickly achieved a great skill in dribbling, don't know why. I dribbled 4 CPU players and scored with Nantes at WC difficulty in CM tonight, something I couldn't do before. I'm talking about CLOSE QUARTERS dribblings. It takes only the left stick and great timing to pass through people.

But, that said, if you analyzed my 4 dribble play, you would see all players skating around, some of the real world forces are blatantly ignored. For example, inertia sometimes is unexistant and players can change direction in a dime, or even WHILE doing a step. That's impossible in real life and that's the reason why Fifa players seem to float over the floor. There's no proper foot planting (we know 360 has some guilt here), no wieght involved and no proper acceleration and speed taken into account. I've seen CPU players come totally accelerated WHILE turning WHILE doing a step WHILE controlling the ball. Too much to bear, mate.

PES, on the other side, will punish you for not taking some things into account. If you begin to turn towards a direction you have to time well the moment to shift wieght and turn the other side. When you do it well, you can break your opponent's hip in what consitutes a much better reward than performing stupid tricks in any of both games. PES dribbling is very good and I think there's a consensus over its more "realistic" approach.

That doesn't make it better as a "game" or more "fun". You can hve for fun with the dirbble system that you want, but implying Fifa players move around more realistically would be simply nonsense.
Click to expand...

PES has better footplanting at this point, I'll give you that but it can also be attributed to its much simpler library of on-the-pitch animations. And I can understand why you'd think inertia/momentum is more emphasized over there because moves like cuts and diagonal pushes are built-in the default dribbling system. So for instance when you're pushing left on the stick, your player will automatically do an inside cut, therefore all that's require of you is timing. In fact, I would go as far as saying that there's not a single default dribbling move in klashman's video that can't be replicated in FIFA (albeit with modifiers).

I very much prefer EA's "building block" concept when it comes to their dribbling system. At it's core, they've created a basic form of movement with the ball i.e. the jogging pace. At this pace, the player would feed controlled touches to the ball with both feet (just like in real life), giving you this underlying layer of freedom in movement that's nonexistent in PES. On top of this basic foundation, you have plenty of modifier controls that introduces even more dribbling touches such stop&go, ball shielding, lateral dribbling, etc. So not only is timing required on your part, but it pays to know which moves to perform in those tight situations therefore it can be such a rewarding experience stringing different modifier controls together.

I could offer you examples of where Fifa excels in exhibiting movement inertia (regardless of dodgy footplanting because the two are mutually exclusive, although it certainly doesn't help) and where the PES2011 demo is lacking in that same aspect. What's unequivocally nonsense is for you to suggest that PES's dribbling system is more realistic because of the complex inertia-based movements that are built right into it, when the same move set actually exists in Fifa.
 
Last edited:
WILDSTER180774 said:
CUSTOM AUDIO IS BROKE - keep getting Arsenal chants playing in other non Arsenal games. And I've double checked the settings etc. It's a bug that a lot of people have complained about. So until this is fixed I'm not gonna bother customising my audio coz hearing millwall fans sing "arsenal pass the ball" while they r playing man city is just totally fucking shit. Add the crappy replay theatre which is a complete waste of time and that's 2 new features that are totally crap. Not happy that every year we seem to be doing EAs game testing for them. So many bugs. Anyone else get audio go weirdly quiet when making subs??
Click to expand...

Yea, same arsenal bug here aswell.

The weirdest chant bug i've had is utd fans singing "ooh ahh cantona" after I've just beaten Newcastle at home with City. I haven't even assigned the Utd chant playlist into fifa yet! :/

Murkurial said:
I would like to know who he is as well... :JAY:
Click to expand...

Ah! Horrible Xbox profile pic mate. ;)
 
Well after 1 night all the annoyances from fifa10 are coming flooding back. Bored of the AI already, pressure fest online, clubs looks improved and was playing well then we met a team of ping pong abusers so that's just a matter of time before that's fucked up. I can't see this game lasting til Christmas let alone 12 months. And sooo many bugs. AGAIN. year after year after year of BUGS. How do they miss them? They seem happy to release buggy games. Shockingly bad. If they were any other business they would be on Watchdog and Rogue Traders.
There are things I'm loving in the game. Animations and ball physics are awesome but it's all being ruined by EAs lack of wanting to make the game more sim like. Instead of be a keeper they should have worked on Team Personality. CM is gonna bore me I just know it will. Not started one yet coz I wanted to get al my editing and customisation done first but that's been ruined by BUGS!!!!
 
adelante said:
PES has better footplanting at this point, I'll give you that but it can also be attributed to its much simpler library of on-the-pitch animations. And I can understand why you'd think inertia/momentum is more emphasized over there because moves like cuts and diagonal pushes are built-in the default dribbling system. So for instance when you're pushing left on the stick, your player will automatically do an inside cut, therefore all that's require of you is timing. In fact, I would go as far as saying that there's not a single default dribbling move in klashman's video that can't be replicated in FIFA (albeit with modifiers).

I very much prefer EA's "building block" concept when it comes to their dribbling system. At it's core, they've created a basic form of movement with the ball i.e. the jogging pace. At this pace, the player would feed controlled touches to the ball with both feet (just like in real life), giving you a level of freedom in movement that's sorely lacking in PES. On top of this basic foundation, you have plenty of modifier controls that introduces even more dribbling touches such stop&go, ball shielding, lateral dribbling, etc. So not only is timing required on your part, but it pays to know which moves to perform in those tight situations therefore it can be such a rewarding experience stringing different modifier controls together.

I could offer you examples of where Fifa excels in exhibiting movement inertia (regardless of dodgy footplanting because the two are mutually exclusive) and where the PES2011 demo is lacking in that same aspect. What's unequivocally nonsense is for you to suggest that PES's dribbling system is more realistic because of the complex inertia-based movements that are built right into it, when the same move set actually exists in Fifa.
Click to expand...

PES dribbling is decent at creating space but once you get past the defender he catches you up anyway :CONFUSE:

When a player is on the ball he is Clark Kent
As soon as he doesn't have the ball tho he turns into Superman

Hope it's been fixed in the full game.
 
Anybody else noted that when you start a new prem league season the com team refer to it as cup matches.

Bloody Annoying I hope they fix it!
 
PLF said:
I noticed that too, nerf.

It's a cool new little addition.

So you can get a player to act how he normally would or as the coach give him instructions otherwise. I have a couple wingers who have 'low' defensive work-rate for example and if I leave them to default, they just won't track back and get me in trouble. So I have to manually assign them 'normal' defensive work-rate to make sure those lazy bastards don't just want the ball when we're in possession and do fuck-all, otherwise. Very realistic as this is a common theme for real life managers and players like C. Ronaldo, etc. ;)
Click to expand...

This is only realistic if the extent of your influence is limited. That means, I don't want Berbatov to suddenly become Ji Sung Park because I set his work rate to high on offense and defense. That's the question I'm having now - did EA just go the lazy route and set an offensive and defensive default work rate that you can change? Or does changing it only moderately effect how the player acts based off his real personality?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom