FC Barcelona Thread

[drekkard]

An immature post by a deluded fan blinded by bias. Wishing other posters to be "kicked in the kidneys", you've excelled yourself this time.

Wouldn't you be better trying to attack the post rather than the poster? By all means challenge the assertion that Neymar has a track record of diving, or that Barca have a track record of diving (and good luck with countering either of those opinions), but to just want everyone you disgree with to be "kicked in the kidneys and mocked"... well that's hardly the way of rational debate, that's like a fight in the playground.

An immature post by a deluded fan blinded by bias. So if Neymar dives now and then (as he clearly does the same way he receives very aggressive tackles) this totally justifies someone kicking his kidneys. Great, good logic.

 

[drekkard]

This is not right. This reaction is too much drekkard.

Warned.

What I wanted to say is that people condemnig Neymar in a play in which he is clearly hurt maybe deserve to experience being hurt the same way and experience others mocking them just as they are doing with Neymar when someone kicks his kidneys. I didn't think it was that disrespectful when I wrote it.

After re-read, surely the way I put it sounds too excessive and aggressive, so I'm sorry, I got carried away by some people that only come to this thread for the usual trolling.

Of course Barcelona players overact and dive now and then. Not more not less than any other team in La Liga, for instance. Do I like it? Of course not. Does it means they ALWAYS overact and dive? Only a blind hater could think like that.

But sorry for my first reaction as obviously wasn't meant to imply what it does. I'm a long poster in this forum and hardly let myself be carried away. This time I did and it's my fault.

Obviously I really don't desire hurt to anyone at all.

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

There is a third option where you are fouled or tripped yes you end up down but don't milk it like Elias from Platoon. I don't think being fouled results in a dichotomy whereby you either have to (a) kick the guy back, or (b) over-act. Dortmund got to the Champions League final last year and beat teams like Man City, Madrid and Ajax on the way, they have (and had in the case of Goetze) very skillfull players like Marco Reus, Lewandoski, Gundogan etc. There is a lot of movement and pace in the Dortmund attack they suffer fouls when their players are tripped, they dont really have that many players you can say are constant divers or over-actors. Last year Swansea won the League Cup in England, they are also a team that plays quick and dynamic football and again they don't really have a lot players who you can call constant divers or over-actors (well except maybe that ball boy from the semi final ).

You can get get fouled, and then get up and get on with the game. If a player is being consistantly fouled the offender should (and almost always does) get a yellow card, and if it keeps happening a second yellow and red.

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

An immature post by a deluded fan blinded by bias. So if Neymar dives now and then (as he clearly does the same way he receives very aggressive tackles) this totally justifies someone kicking his kidneys. Great, good logic.

How am I biased and who am I a fan of? I don't really avidly follow Spanish football that much. If it's on TV I might watch it, but I'm not a fan of Real Madrid or Barcelona, if there is a team I want to win in Spain it's probably Atletico Madrid since I liked the style of football they played many years ago (when they had a great Czech player called Radjeck Bejbel, Hasselbaink and players like Juninho) - but I have no innate connection to Spain or Spanish teams.

Where did I say that what Brown did was justified? If you look I'm agreeing with PIPA's post, that what Brown did was unprofessional but Neymar's reaction was over-the-top. I added to the point by saying Neymar has a track record of diving/over-acting, and so generally Barca players do. I don't see how this notion is that debateable.

 

[gerd]

The problem with this debate is that it is a debate between two different cultures.

On the one hand, what i will call the "Southern culture" (i'm sorry for the stereotyping): very technical play and a football culture where a certain amountof exageration is accepted. What is wrong by most posters is that it looks as if Barcelona is the only "Southern" team that does this...that is nonsense. Just look at Real Madrid -Atletico Madrid for instance. There is physicality in that football, but a more subdued one. This is a euphemism for the fact that players are physical when the ref doesn't watch. They are clever offenders (hence also the diving).

The second football culture is what i would call the Brittish culture (once again sorry for the stereotyping): a culture where players are loved if they go for it 90 minutes long. The football tends to be very physical and when players are fouled they are supposed to stand up and continue playing without fuzz. Hence injured players who continue are seen as heroes even if medically they should stop playing (most recent example Lukaku after his goal against West Ham United, on the continent there was outrage that he had to play on, doctors claimed this was very dangerous and could have been life threatening, not that it was, but the doctors could not judge on the pitch if he was in danger or not).

A debate between this two cultures will always be useless, because both parties judge by their own standards according to their culture.


Last year there was a similar debate about Bale's diving. My opinion about this: it should have been possible that refs accorded a foul and also a foul for diving to Bale. It is not because a player dives that he is not fouled. But my guess is that both parties (southern and brittish) will disagree.

IMO the warning for drekkard his harsh.
He was provoked by at least one of the previous posters who in that case should also receive a warning. I will not be hypocrite and will name him: dazzla. Just reread his last post and tell me drekkard's post is worse...

Dazzla post is the equivalent of Busquets' diving. I just removed him from my ignore list, but i shouldn't have done this. I know i will not make myself popular with this post, but it is my sincere opinion and i expressed it in a decent way with respect for other opinions.

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

The problem with this debate is that it is a debate between two different cultures.

On the one hand, what i will call the "Southern culture" (i'm sorry for the stereotyping): very technical play and a football culture where a certain amountof exageration is accepted. What is wrong by most posters is that it looks as if Barcelona is the only "Southern" team that does this...that is nonsense. Just look at Real Madrid -Atletico Madrid for instance. There is physicality in that football, but a more subdued one. This is a euphemism for the fact that players are physical when the ref doesn't watch. They are clever offenders (hence also the diving).

The second football culture is what i would call the Brittish culture (once again sorry for the stereotyping): a culture where players are loved if they go for it 90 minutes long. The football tends to be very physical and when players are fouled they are supposed to stand up and continue playing without fuzz. Hence injured players who continue are seen as heroes even if medically they should stop playing (most recent example Lukaku after his goal against West Ham United, on the continent there was outrage that he had to play on, doctors claimed this was very dangerous and could have been life threatening, not that it was, but the doctors could not judge on the pitch if he was in danger or not).

A debate between this two cultures will always be useless, because both parties judge by their own standards according to their culture.


Last year there was a similar debate about Bale's diving. My opinion about this: it should have been possible that refs accorded a foul and also a foul for diving to Bale. It is not because a player dives that he is not fouled. But my guess is that both parties (southern and brittish) will disagree.

IMO the warning for drekkard his harsh.
He was provoked by at least one of the previous posters who in that case should also receive a warning. I will not be hypocrite and will name him: dazzla. Just reread his last post and tell me drekkard's post is worse...

Dazzla post is the equivalent of Busquets' diving. I just removed him from my ignore list, but i shouldn't have done this. I know i will not make myself popular with this post, but it is my sincere opinion and i expressed it in a decent way with respect for other opinions.

I'm not sure it's quite as simple as "southern vs northern", there are some "southern" teams who are not really that reknowned for diving (are Roma and Napoli full of divers, even Milan I would say dont have that many divers in the team - sure they got a suspect penalty last night, but I think that was just a strange ref decision rather than a result of diving per se). Also where do you say leagues like Croatia, Russia and Turkey go - I've seen a fair bit of Hajduk Split this season, and I always watch football in Russia and Ukraine, a few years ago I was in Northern Turkey and saw a fair bit of Trabzonspor. In all these cases diving / over-acting wasn't that prevalent, would you say these are all "northern" teams - well perhaps Russia is, but aren't Turkey and Croatia more in "southern Europe"?

About the other stuff, I don't think it's right to advocate harm on other posters. Whatever Dazzla said (and FD and beachryan seemed to be included too), you should debate what they say but not wish actual harm on them. If every time posters disgreed they posted stuff about "getting a kicking" well the forum would be a total mess.

 

[gerd]

Edmundo, i don't think drekkard actually meant you people harm. This forum would also be a total mess if everything that is written here is taken literally. If somebody writes about "a kick in the teeth" do you really think he literally wants that ?

Sometimes debates get heated and people write things that are a litle bit over the top. In this case drekkard apologized himself yet he got a warning. IMO is one apologizes the warning should be retracted.

About football: of course in my post i am stereotyping and that is always wrong. But i would say quite a lot of Spanish, Italian, Portugese, and some Greek and Turkish teams play the way i described. Just like English (less in the EPL), Scottish and Scandinavian teams play more physically.

I never judged those football cultures, i only tried to prove a point: there will always be problems when those teams play against each others. I remember the way Celtic fans reacted when they played twice against Mourinho's Porto team.

Yes, they dived, but to me it wasn't that outrageous as to those Celtic fans (and i think most Scottish fans would have agreed with the Celtic fans).

The best solution is the one i proposed: give both the foul to the offender and a yellow card to the diver.

 

[Godotelli]

I like Barca but the Celtic player barely touched Neymar. I haven't seen Neymar's reaction but I suspect he's rolling around in 'agony' like Courtois was the other night. In fact the impact of him hitting the floor would have been more painful.

With that said, I don't have that big a problem with a Neymar making the most out of a kick off the ball. The fault is with the other player lashing out in the first place. What I have a problem with is play acting in order to gain an advantage in play. I have a bigger problem with what Vertonghen did to Torres than what Neymar did to the Celtic player. Likewise, I wouldn't have had that big a problem with Vertonghen play acting from Torres' scratch.

 

[gerd]

I agree with you about Vertonghen.
On the other hand, Torres behaved rather stupidly towards Vertonghen. A shame because started the second half really good, perhaps the best i saw him play for Chelsea.

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

Edmundo, i don't think drekkard actually meant you people harm. This forum would also be a total mess if everything that is written here is taken literally. If somebody writes about "a kick in the teeth" do you really think he literally wants that ?

Well "kick in the teeth" is a specific English expression isnt it? Doesnt it mean injustice (maybe a born and bred English or American can clarify this)? I'm not sure there was any mention of teeth here - I don't think kick in the teeth was said, so I think it's a side issue.

Personally I always think it's fine to say what you like about teams or players, because these teams and players arent part of the forum. Let's take Van Bommel, anyone can say "oh I hate Van Bommel, he's an arsehole" (for the record I don't I'm just using it as an example) and even if they phrase it crudely, it's not really a big deal since Van Bommel isn't on this board. But if a poster says something about another poster, and it's aggressive and crudely insulting or wilfully wishing harm on them, well I think it's poor and not condusive to good debate.

Hypothetically say I disagreed with you about Mourinho and De Bruyne. Say I thought that Mourinho was right not to take him to Bucharest, because in Mata, Lampard and Oscar he has attacking players with slightly more experience than De Bruyne which could be important in a must win away match in Europe, then it's fine to argue each opinion. There is validity in saying experience is vital in that sort of match, and there is validity in saying that De Bruyne with his skillset might be able to unpick the Steaua defence in ways perhaps the others can't and so he should play. And if you say Mourinho is an arsehole or if I say De Bruyne is a spoilt self-obsessed brat and has poor tactical discipline (and I dont actually think that at all im just being illustrative) - well yes maybe we've got carried away and insulted a coach and a manager but is it that bad since neither are members of the forum.

But if we start really being aggressive to each other and you say, "oh edmundo you're a w**ker" and I say (something like) "gerd you're an arsehole and I hope you get a kicking until you see my point of view" (and I dont think this at all, I'm merely using it as an illustration) then the whole debate breaks down, we stop talking about the issue (Mourinho and De Bruyne) and instead of an interesting topic it just become a mess of physcial threats. As you say we can't take things too literally, but in any walk of life there are lines that probably shouldnt be crossed. The mod's here have very difficult task, the debates get heated, people get carried away - they have to try and moderate all this and at times it must be very difficult. To my mind they do a great job in difficult circumstances and probably get very little thanks for it - if they sanction people (me, you, anyone) then they are totally entitled to do this to keep the forum running as smoothly as possible.

 

[drekkard]

I dont' have a problem with my warning, as I said it was proably deserved. But if people can write "I hope he had kicked Neymar throat" and that's ok, then I'm not ok with it. I don't care if it's a member of the forum or not, it's just the same wrong thing.

What if Neymar is a member of this forum, then you can't say that? Sorry but I don't follow at all that logic.

 

[gerd]

That was a very diplomatic post edmundo.
I partly agree with it and i partly don't.
I was once asked by Mart to become a mod and i refused to be one because i'm convinced that i would be a very bad mod (worse than all the present mods who do a fine job). The reason: i'm very impulsive. I write this because now i'm gonna tell what i would (also) do. and perhaps it would be a bad idea.

I would look to what the "offender" has done previously and take this into account before judging.

In this case we talk about drekkard, a member who has been here for years and has no previous of aggro on this forum...everyone can make a mistake.

What is a litle bit infuriating that in this case the worst provocator (who does thus vairly regularly) comes away with it. IMO that is an injustice, but that is only my opinion.

Anyway, we are off-topic now...sorry for that.

 

[ZeroTheHero]

I like Barca but the Celtic player barely touched Neymar. I haven't seen Neymar's reaction but I suspect he's rolling around in 'agony' like Courtois was the other night. In fact the impact of him hitting the floor would have been more painful.

How can you have seen that Brown 'barely touched Neymar' and not have seen the reaction?

The second replay showed it from behind and there's a foot in the kidneys from behind before he hits his arm. There is a reason why kidney shots are popular in boxing because they don't need to be particularly hard to shake the opponent.

Neymar's reaction was fair enough because it was an intentional kick after the ref had blown the whistle and anyone defending this kind of violence needs to rethink their perspective.

 

[Godotelli]

How can you have seen that Brown 'barely touched Neymar' and not have seen the reaction?

The second replay showed it from behind and there's a foot in the kidneys from behind before he hits his arm. There is a reason why kidney shots are popular in boxing because they don't need to be particularly hard to shake the opponent.

Neymar's reaction was fair enough because it was an intentional kick after the ref had blown the whistle and anyone defending this kind of violence needs to rethink their perspective.

Because the replay I had seen cuts off before Neymar starts acting like a baby.

I've seen multiple views (and, unfortunately, Neymar's reaction) now and it's clear that he is tapped/flicked in the back not the kidney's. Acting like this actually hurt Neymar is it's own kind of embarrassing play acting. Get a grip of yourself

 

[drekkard]

How can you have seen that Brown 'barely touched Neymar' and not have seen the reaction?

The second replay showed it from behind and there's a foot in the kidneys from behind before he hits his arm. There is a reason why kidney shots are popular in boxing because they don't need to be particularly hard to shake the opponent.

Neymar's reaction was fair enough because it was an intentional kick after the ref had blown the whistle and anyone defending this kind of violence needs to rethink their perspective.

You put in good words what I miserably failed to do. Maybe I jumped too quickly because there's this "barcelona hate" trend in which anything works.

The people I firstly quoted assumed from start that Neymar play acted simply because he's a Barcelona player and has been tagged. Period. There was no space for even doubts. They may not have seen the match, the play at realtime or the right highlights. Only one replay in slow motion. And thus, every Barcelona player that falls to the floor it's theatrics, no matter what. It's a lot more comfortable and easy to ditch the team completely and have the mantras they keep repeating.

It gets to the point that they act like those posters in the PES thread who constantly feel the urge to remind people that "the game sucks", "it's broken", etc... Some posters come regularly here to put all the negativity they can at the slightest chance, some have never posted a single constructive post in this thread in years.

Independantly of (and if) Neymar exagerated the pain or not, Brown action was a straight red, pure violence and has to be condemned the same way we do with cheaters and divers.

The worse of all, it seems that being violent is well seen and even justified by some. Maybe it's me who doesn't get this meaning of "nobility" in sport that allows you to kick someone in the kidneys or ask them to kick him in the throat.

 

[Dazzlà]

everyone is a hater aint they? tbh i do not give a fuck about barcelona, exactly no feeling, no love or hate, i dislike players who act (dont matter if they play for barcelona or st. mirren) neymar acting the way he does isnt only embarrasing for him, its embarrasing for barcelona and its embarrasing for football. he is a grown man. i dont really think he deserves to be kicked in the throat, id rather i not typed that but the way he acts is pathetic. and if you act like a bitch you will be treated like a bitch.
also i aint buying the excuse that he needs to do this so the ref can see whats going on, ref would of sent him off anyway and rightfully so, what scott brown did was stupid. but anyone who believes that neymars reaction was legit is a blind funboy.

After re-read, surely the way I put it sounds too excessive and aggressive, so I'm sorry, I got carried away by some people that only come to this thread for the usual trolling.

usual trolling? i have a total of 2 posts in this thread.

The people I firstly quoted assumed from start that Neymar play acted simply because he's a Barcelona player and has been tagged. Period. There was no space for even doubts.

incorrect, i know he has done this many many times before, your paranoia is odd, you are not a victim.

 

[bebo]

tbf w/ Drekkard he`s a well inform valuable member. He had to deal w/ such attack for years in this community( me included ). He`s not only a supporter ,but lives in the community. I say everyone has a right to go off a lil every once in a while

emotions deceive us,by the way Ramiroudzil !!!

 

[ZeroTheHero]

Because the replay I had seen cuts off before Neymar starts acting like a baby.

I've seen multiple views (and, unfortunately, Neymar's reaction) now and it's clear that he is tapped/flicked in the back not the kidney's. Acting like this actually hurt Neymar is it's own kind of embarrassing play acting. Get a grip of yourself

I think you need to switch sports.. rugby seems right up your alley.

 

[ss4_goku]

I think a huge reason for this reaction isn't only because it's Barca (as some have pointed), but Neymar. Neymar is always known to fall to ground easily (Spoiler Alert, This may sound like I'm defending him...but I'm trying to point out facts)

I remember reading somewhere before that Neymar goes to ground easily and has been taught to do so in Brazil to protect his body. If you watch closely, everytime he's tripped or tackled, he'd fling his body to fall in a certain way that is almost the same. He does this to avoid falling awkwardly and injuring his legs which could mean the end of his career (his playing is heavily related to his skills and tricks, and an ankle break can change his career). Now with that said, I feel that the kick was foul and a sending off was correct. I believe almost all of us believe that. The only problem that I see you guys arguing about, is Neymar's reaction after. He does tend to roll around a lot longer than "necessary" and that tends to have the reaction from people watching that he's trying to sell the foul to the ref/play acting. It's not like he did a Busquets peek-a-boo motion after. I think this is one accident where his fall should be justified as a Kidney kick really does hurt a lot (especially in motion and unexpected)

 

[beachryan]

As anyone who has ever played sports or done anything in real life knows, if you're actually hurt you don't react the way that Neymar does there. (nor the way that many players are taught to react).

Rolling around, screaming, violently shaking yourself back and forth and so forth are not what happens if you're hurt. Fear, shock and generally stillness is what happens.

The problem is, that as fake, unsportsmanlike and pathetic reactions like Neymar's are - they work. Because referees are human, their eyes are drawn to big reactions and they dish out cards the more you react.

It's obviously not just Neymar/Barca - it's pervasive in the sport. Watching the United v. Shaktar match - Srna cut inside late in the game and tried to cross, but he just nicked a defender who was behind him on the way to doing so, skewing his cross behind the line. Given where he was on the pitch and the situation in the game, he went down absolutely screaming, clutching his ankle and rolling all over the place. Then he paused, looked up at the extra official who was about 3 feet from him. Nothing? His expression asked. Nothing. Up he got, grimace gone and went back to the halfway line.

It's an awful part of the sport we love, isn't going to change and dismays me. But don't pretend it's ever, ever justified.

 

[bebo]

have you seen NBA ? they even use instant replay n they still do it.

 

[dplane]

have you seen NBA ? they even use instant replay n they still do it.

ln their defense; getting chased by an NBA player is a little more intimidating than your average midget of a pro soccer player

 

[bebo]

Interesting few weeks coming ahead Messi injured 6-8 weeks muscle tear . Cesc also injured.. Nothing like a injury crisis to build carácter to the team. At least they are through in CL rounds

 

[dplane]

Holy shit Ajax beat FCB even though they played with 10 men for half the match? Impressive.

 

[PIPA23]

Holy shit Ajax beat FCB even though they played with 10 men for half the match? Impressive.

Barcelona didn´t care imo..

 

[dplane]

Barcelona didn´t care imo..

All the articles I've read seem to suggest otherwise, making it sound like Ajax put the lockdown on FCB throughout the game. They fielded a pretty strong team as well. But hey, I didn't watch it, so Ill just have to believe what the press puts out there. Ajax - Milan will be interesting!

 

[drekkard]

Well, Barcelona had Valdes, Alves, Alba, Adriano, Busquets, Messi, Alexis and Tello uneligible for the match and they were already qualified. But that don't justify the lack of intensity of the team in the first half, which was pathetic and an insult to the fans.

Ajax played with a lot of intensity and deservedly came up 2-0 (doing nothing out of ordinary), mainly because of the total lack of interest of some Barcelona players like Iniesta and Xavi and the very low form of Mascherano, Puyol and Pedro.

Then on the second half Ajax did a penalty and had a red card, so there were almost 40 minutes left 2-1 and Ajax with only 10 men. Then Barcleona players seemed to think "hey we can get something we don't deserve, let's attack a little", but other than 2 or 3 confused plays, there was nothing there.

With this attitude the only thing that can happen is that someone, like last year, end up scoring 7 against us. Some players are just done for the highest level of competition. They can win La Liga, but the moment they face REAL challenge, this team just lacks intensity and hunger.

 

[Kanouté]

oh, money...

 

[drekkard]

At least it's creative.

 

[drekkard]

The political prosecution of Messi in the last year from certain institutions of Madrid is as dirty as the average politicians we have in this country. It's pathetic to observe how they try to put any negative news (real or imaginary, it doesn't matter) on the front page day in day out, and specially after every defeat/draw of Real in La Liga. Florentino's hand in the press is too big (he owns through 3rd party companies shares of both major sport newspapers in Spain).

I wish I could leave this country, it's ashaming.