FC Barcelona Thread

[PIPA23]

what end of great era? barca are champions of Spain... the two matches against Bayern were bad from today´s perspective..but honestly Bayern are good..

Barca will be back next season compeeting for highest places imo.

 

[Issidingo]

My 2 cents: it will take them a long time to win another CL. winning la liga is easy, it's a 2 team competition due to an absurd system where tv money mostly go to real and barcelona. it's also the most boring league in the wold where top 2 teams combine for 191 points and 335 goals.

rosell is really a dumb ass, i hope laporta gets back sooner or later.
time will tell but i think in europe they are done untill rosell is in charge. they will probably buy another crap player for 40 millions.

they don't have a good managament,don't have a decent coach and the key players are getting old (xavi puyol iniesta). you can't win forever, sooner or later some other teams will take your place.

 

[Lami]

Congrats Barca

Well I know I've said this before and don't want to come across as a troll, but Placebo in the Fifa 14 thread said something that's Fifa related that perfectly described how I feel regarding this Barca team and why I find them boring:

All games are easy if you exploit them, playing the same way over and over and over to create easy chances has worked on every game since the dawn of Football games, the solution is to show a little self control and always look to play proper football rather than video game football

I really couldn't have put it any better. I'm not really criticizing here, just thought I'd put that as an explanation so people would know what I'm on about when I say boring to me. That's all.

 

[Enzo]

The legendary barelona team was created by Laporta, first with Frank Rijkaard (won leagues and CL) and then with the Dalai Lama Pep guardiola (won every friking thing twice o three times).

It did benefit from having an outstanding generation of catalan/cantera players (xaxi, puyol, messi, iniesta, busquets etc) but it also did benefit from the likes of dhino, deco, etoo etc etc.

The legacy of Laporta/Guardiola has now come to an end and the people currently running the club aren't exactly famous for being very smart or clever or having any particular merit (rosell, zubizarreta, tito vilanova etc), their glory is mostly due to the legacy left by those before them. At the same time the golden generation has aged and you really notice that (xavi puyol villa and iniesta can't play at the same pace).

So what is left is messi and a bunch of good players who seemed better than what they are because they were playing together with the finest ever.

time and bad managament have finally put an end to a great era. what a run it has been though!

Lol END OF ERA? What?

Think about this for a second:

1. Matches against Real Madrid - no coach
2. Matches against Bayern Munchen - not fit best player in the world + no Puyol, no Mascerano, no Busquets at home match
3. Atletico Madrid lost 1-2 to 10 men Barcelona without Messi
4. Barcelona won 4 out 5 La Liga titles
5. Barcelona 6th year in a row playing in CL semifinals
6. You probably forgot that Pep Guardiola is gone, you think Tito is equally good? Team is in transition if you haven't noticed

So where are your arguments now "era killer priest" ?

 

[Lami]

2. Matches against Bayern Munchen - not fit best player in the world + no Puyol, no Mascerano, no Busquets at home match

That's an absolutely lame excuse for losing 7-0. It's not like you fielded a 2nd grade team in those matches. You still had all your star players on the pitch and they simply underperformed, or couldn't do much.

 

[Issidingo]

the team is not in transition. the team is on the decline momentum. unless they spend big and wise but i am not sure they are capable of that. they are still exposed to the banks for some 200 millions, poorly managed by rosell and friends who are silly amatuers and i don't see many players that could really give an edge to the team in the midfield.

u don't find many xavi, iniesta and puyol in europe.

i stand correct: the great run is over, age has finally caught up with one of the greatest and most boring teams in history.

 

[Enzo]

That's an absolutely lame excuse for losing 7-0. It's not like you fielded a 2nd grade team in those matches. You still had all your star players on the pitch and they simply underperformed, or couldn't do much.

I can bet my house that it wouldnt be 7-0.

 

[gerd]

That's an absolutely lame excuse for losing 7-0. It's not like you fielded a 2nd grade team in those matches. You still had all your star players on the pitch and they simply underperformed, or couldn't do much.

It's a litle bit easy to pick one argument out whereas enzo gave quite a few arguments why there is reason to suppose Barcelona are not in decline.

For me the most valid one is that they were without their coach for months. On top of that Villanova was replaced by somebody who has no first division (or second) experience at all. The haters will say that barcelona made a mistake by replacing Villanova with and inexperienced coach and i tend to agree with them, but it is a big factor.

And besides that, what were Barcelona supposed to do, fire Villanova because he had cancer ? Surely not.

The fact that Messi was injured or couldn't play against Bayern was a huge factor. And about Puyol. Well when there was no dispute about Barcelona being the best team, and when they barely lost...there were seasons that the only matches they lost was when Puyol didn't play. So even at their very peak Puyol was an important factor.

It is much too soon to write this team off...they do need to change things however and their dependance of Messi is also worrying (but on the other hand Villa came back from a very serious injury, that was also a set-back).

 

[Lami]

His other points may be valid to a degree, that's why I didn't pick any of them apart from this one which I thought was absurd.

Also not having Puyol in the team might lead to a weaker defence and in turn a loss, still doesn't warrant a huge loss since they have tons of other quality players on the pitch.

So a couple men turn Barcelona from the best team in the world to a 0-7 crushed side? Something's wrong there. You still have Valdes in goal, Pique in defence, Alves - Alba - Abidal on the sides, Xavi - Iniesta - Song - Fabregas - Thiago in the middle, Villa - Pedro - Sanchez upfront. Massive talent in there still. There should be no excuse whatsoever for this team for such a defeat, even if you're in transition.

 

[gerd]

I don't agree at all with you.

A couple of arguments.

One or two players are not important ?
Remember the galacticos. Madrid sold Makelele to Chelsea and the team was finished.

A heavy defeat (4-0 and 3-0) ???
A couple of seasons back Barcelona beat Mourinho's Real Madrid 5-0. The same team won la Liga the season after that. A team in decline ??

Last season Dortmund beat Bayern 5-0 (it migh have been in the German cup final). A team decline ?

I gave you two examples and if i'm not mistaken both teams were at their strongest...


I could also talk about Cruijff's Barcelona that were thrashed by Milan in a CL final or that same Milan that was totally outplayed by Deportivo La Coruna...

I don't buy your arguments Lami...

 

[Enzo]

So a couple men turn Barcelona from the best team in the world to a 0-7 crushed side? Something's wrong there. You still have Valdes in goal, Pique in defence, Alves - Alba - Abidal on the sides, Xavi - Iniesta - Song - Fabregas - Thiago in the middle, Villa - Pedro - Sanchez upfront. Massive talent in there still. There should be no excuse whatsoever for this team for such a defeat, even if you're in transition.

Abidal - are you kidding me? After his sickness!
Song - thats like 1/4 of Busquets
+ Messi who wasent fit even against PSG

There you go, + Puyol + Mascherano.

 

[Lami]

I don't agree at all with you.

A couple of arguments.

One or two players are not important?
Remember the galacticos. Madrid sold Makelele to Chelsea and the team was finished.

How so? They did lose his holding qualities but other than that they were still on top.

A heavy defeat (4-0 and 3-0) ???

For a team that is touted as the best in the world and probably ever seen, yes it is.

A couple of seasons back Barcelona beat Mourinho's Real Madrid 5-0.

I don't find that excusable. That's a massive defeat for a team like Madrid.

The same team won la Liga the season after that. A team in decline ??

I never said anyone's in decline though? Maybe you're mistaking me with someone else.

Last season Dortmund beat Bayern 5-0 (it migh have been in the German cup final). A team decline ?

Well again I never said anyone's in decline. I just cannot accept excuses for such huge defeats for top teams.

I could also talk about Cruijff's Barcelona that were thrashed by Milan in a CL final or that same Milan that was totally outplayed by Deportivo La Coruna...

Well same as above I don't like finding excuses for top teams who get thrashed. If a top team gets a thrashing they should look at themselves in the mirror and see what went wrong, not find excuses. If I was the manager of Barca, with the quality I have in the team, I'd never accept the excuse of Messi not playing means they're all deemed worthless. They're all talented enough to carry the team through. Messi does provide class quality, but that doesn't mean without him they become crap. They're all still top quality talented experienced players who should cope without Messi. They just cannot simply put all the weight on him.

I don't buy your arguments Lami...

Tbh Gerd I don't quite know what you're arguing with me about. I never said they're in decline. I simply said a couple people off doesn't warrant the rest of the top talent on the pitch slack off and get their asses handed to them.

Abidal - are you kidding me? After his sickness!
Song - thats like 1/4 of Busquets
+ Messi who wasent fit even against PSG

There you go, + Puyol + Mascherano.

C'mon Enzo, Song 1/4 of Busquets? Really?

Ok keep Abidal out, you still have Alves - Alba, no? Pique too.

Messi may not have been fit vs PSG but the team still managed to win. And the rest of the team are top quality enough to carry the team.

And tbh, I don't rate Mascherano that highly. He's too aggressive and problematic.

And here you go too: Valdes + Pique + Alves + Alba + Xavi + Iniesta + Song + Fabregas + Villa + Pedro + Sanchez. Top quality players, but something wasn't right vs Bayern. They were "infertile".

EDIT: Forgot to mention this, remember Barca's 1-3 defeat ro Madrid 3 months ago? Messi and Busquets were playing. What happened there? It could've been a bigger defeat even. See what I mean? The problem isn't Messi, neither Busquets, nor Mascherano. It is something else that needs fixing. Maybe the manager, maybe the players themselves, maybe something else.

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

Personally I think the Villanova / Jorge Roura thing is a bit of a side issue. Roura came from a very similar background to Villanova, they played in the same Barcelona B team in the late 80s early 90s, they were both on Guardiola's coaching staff for the last 4 years or so. Roura's been on the Barca coaching team on and off for the last decade or so, he assisted when Rechack was a caretaker after Cryuff and then followed him to Japan. The English press in Spain (Graham Chunter and Sid Lowe) paint him as someone who "a year ago just watched DVDs of the opposition", but that's a bit of a misnomer, he's been an important member of the coaching staff for a few years now.

The other thing is Barca's CL performances, particularly away from home, have slipped from their usual high standards. At the tail end of last season's CL they drew 0-0 in Milan (beat them 3-1 in the return) and then lost 1-0 to Chelsea (drew 2-2 in the return). This season they looked a bit jaded even in the group stage - everyone remembers the Celtic win in Glasgow, but even Barca at home only narrowly beat Celtic and Spartak (1 goal each) and drew 0-0 home to Benfica. This year they were very poor in Milan, but turned it around with a very good second leg (I'm pretty sure Roura was in charge for that second leg), but were not that convincing in both legs against PSG.

It's a real contrast from 2-3 years ago when everyone would really fear playing them. The best you could do then was to hope to play your best game and you might sneak a victory (almost like what Inter did in 2010) but home or away Barca were almost always the most likely team to win a CL match. I don't think there is that fear now and big teams seem to sense they have a genuine chance of beating them now. I think saying it's a terminal decline might be too strong at the moment but I definately agree with the sentiment that they need to drastically bring in new players in key areas.

 

[gerd]

I also think they should bring some new players in.
Ok Lami, you never said they were in decline.

IMO it's perfectly understandable that even big teams can have big defeats...it happens all the time, maybe just because they are big teams and want to win...

 

[Aboutreika18]

The other thing is Barca's CL performances, particularly away from home, have slipped from their usual high standards. At the tail end of last season's CL they drew 0-0 in Milan (beat them 3-1 in the return) and then lost 1-0 to Chelsea (drew 2-2 in the return). This season they looked a bit jaded even in the group stage - everyone remembers the Celtic win in Glasgow, but even Barca at home only narrowly beat Celtic and Spartak (1 goal each) and drew 0-0 home to Benfica. This year they were very poor in Milan, but turned it around with a very good second leg (I'm pretty sure Roura was in charge for that second leg), but were not that convincing in both legs against PSG.

Their away record in the Champions League knockout stages was never that impressive to begin with, even under Guardiola.

Three wins in the last five seasons (Shakhtar, Real Madrid in 2010/11, Leverkusen in 2011/12) is pretty poor, compare that with Man Utd during the same period who beat Porto, Arsenal, Milan, Chelsea and Schalke away from home, despite being knocked out at the group stages in 2011/12.

Or Bayern, who beat Lyon in 2009/10, Inter in 2010/11, Marseille in 2011/12 and Arsenal, Juventus and Barca this season.

 

[Enzo]

C'mon Enzo, Song 1/4 of Busquets? Really?

Ok keep Abidal out, you still have Alves - Alba, no? Pique too.

Messi may not have been fit vs PSG but the team still managed to win. And the rest of the team are top quality enough to carry the team.

And tbh, I don't rate Mascherano that highly. He's too aggressive and problematic.

And here you go too: Valdes + Pique + Alves + Alba + Xavi + Iniesta + Song + Fabregas + Villa + Pedro + Sanchez. Top quality players, but something wasn't right vs Bayern. They were "infertile".

EDIT: Forgot to mention this, remember Barca's 1-3 defeat ro Madrid 3 months ago? Messi and Busquets were playing. What happened there? It could've been a bigger defeat even. See what I mean? The problem isn't Messi, neither Busquets, nor Mascherano. It is something else that needs fixing. Maybe the manager, maybe the players themselves, maybe something else.

Obviously you do not understand Busquets role so you think Song is almost as good as Sergio, you are wrong.

Mascherano might be not for your taste, but he is much better than Bartra or Song.

Team still managed to win? Well guess what 1-2 last La Liga game against Athletico Mardid with 10 men, yes they managed to win and without Messi, but so what? You do not get the point, Barcelona was dismantled most of the season (besides flashing La Liga start). If not for Messi 21 goal run - no La Liga, no CL 1/4, nothing. No coach, some of players underperforming, first season without Guardiola.

Yes I remember 1-3 defeat to Real Madrid, guess what - NO COACH! Mourinho against Roura, are you kidding me?

My point is - stop the bullshit about END OF BARCELONA ERA, Era might end when Messi hang on his boots and Iniesta+Xavi quit, Pique goes back to MU. Your declaration of Barcelona death is way too premature.

Yes Guardiola Barcelona is gone, you can say that. Honestly I do not want to argue about this anymore. Keep your point, I'll keep mine.

 

[Lami]

My point is - stop the bullshit about END OF BARCELONA ERA, Era might end when Messi hang on his boots and Iniesta+Xavi quit, Pique goes back to MU. Your declaration of Barcelona death is way too premature.

Yes Guardiola Barcelona is gone, you can say that. Honestly I do not want to argue about this anymore. Keep your point, I'll keep mine.

What on earth? Why are you addressing me about this end of era bs? I never said it! Please point where I said that? You are definitely mistaking me for someone else.

I'm arguing the fact you are giving your team lame excuses for getting ripped apart. You're the best team in the world fgs. Huge losses aren't acceptable for me. If I was a Barca fan I won't be happy one bit with this. So much talent and bs excuses. No thanks. You also admit Messi is everything? And you think that is good? For a team like Barcelona and for a team that's the best the world has ever seen, losing one class player shouldn't turn the team from Best ever to mediocre. If that's true, then Barcelona is hardly a team; More a one man show.

They should all man up. They're all quite talented and there's an extremely valid reason why each one of them play for Barca. One man does not equal a team. Stop making up excuses and have a look at Dortmund for a change.

 

[Enzo]

What on earth? Why are you addressing me about this end of era bs? I never said it! Please point where I said that? You are definitely mistaking me for someone else.

I'm arguing the fact you are giving your team lame excuses for getting ripped apart. You're the best team in the world fgs. Huge losses aren't acceptable for me. If I was a Barca fan I won't be happy one bit with this. So much talent and bs excuses. No thanks. You also admit Messi is everything? And you think that is good? For a team like Barcelona and for a team that's the best the world has ever seen, losing one class player shouldn't turn the team from Best ever to mediocre. If that's true, then Barcelona is hardly a team; More a one man show.

They should all man up. They're all quite talented and there's an extremely valid reason why each one of them play for Barca. One man does not equal a team. Stop making up excuses and have a look at Dortmund for a change.

My fault Lami, its was Issidingo who said about end of era Lols

My apologies to you

 

[Issidingo]

i am the one who claimed is the end of an era. And i stick to my point.

Xavi is now not capable to keep the current pace, he deteriorated very quickly this year, iniesta is also slowing down, puyol is pretty much done (injuries and age) same goes for villa, piquet and busquet are a good but overrated player just like many others. Etoo was a huge mistake from guardiola, he was the perfect striker to give verticality to a team that has tendency to play only on horizontal lines. No wonder the best season was the one witj etoo and henry.

Can they find players as good as xavi, etoo, puyol? i don't think so. Rosell and Zubi are amateur just like every member of the executive team, guardiola is once in a life time coach. PLus the club is exposed to the banks for some 200 millions and have limited funding available (mostly due to a their non sese wage salaries).

So they might keep winning in Spain as it's a 2/3 teams league and Messi is probably more than enoigh, but in europe they are done for some time.

you can't win forever and quite frankly their football was getting so dull and repetitive that it is about time there are new team competing in europe.

 

[gerd]

and quite frankly their football was getting so dull and repetitive that it is about time there are new team competing in europe.

That is the key to all your posts about this.

You are biased, you don't like Barcelona or their football.
Of course it's your good right (i'm as biased, i love their football, i don't think it's dull, it's very refined IMO, but that view is as (in)valid as yours).

Objectively you haven't give a single reason why Barcelona is in decline. You say that Xavi , Iniesta and Villa are past their prime. You haven't given a single argument to sustain that.

You say that barcelona might well win La Liga. Well take a look at La Liga: teams like Real Madrid, Valencia, Atletico Madrid, Malaga and even Sevilla have been very good in Europe the last years.

Can you name 5 teams that are stronger in Europe ?

I'm only sure about one right now: Bayern Munchen (the team that were called loosers because they lost against Chelsea in last year's CL final).

Dortmund ?

Dortmund were almost eliminated by Malaga, who are lots of point behind Barcelona in La Liga.

What is most difficult to win a league or a cup ?

A league.

I respect your opinion, but you don't convince met at all.

 

[Issidingo]

main difference between u and me is that i go to the camp nou 6-7 times a year and i clearly see their game is getting worse and worse, xavi and iniesta can't keep up the pace anymore (i used to go more oftnen but the crowd is so pathetic that is not worth even with free tickets), plus i know well their budget and club related situation. I even met rosell twice and listened very carefully to what the guy thinks (he goes to the main companies in barcelona every year to talk about the club managament). the guy is simply very dumb and out of place.

"what's most difficult to win a league or cup? A league"

that's a false statament. name a team that has won more cups than leagues. teams can have 20 leagues and not more that a handful of cups.
Spanish league is now a real joke with most real and barcelona games ending up with 4-5 goals difference. most teams have millions of debts with the social security or hundreds of million with the banks (like madrid or barcelona).

fc barcelona under rosell are done in europe. maybe if laporta comes back they will get another run.

 

[Lami]

My fault Lami, its was Issidingo who said about end of era Lols

My apologies to you

No problems man

 

[gerd]

It's pretty obvious that there are no teams who have won more cups than leagues since in order to participate to a Euro Cup you have to do good in the league.

Historically you even had to win a league to participate for the Cup with the big ears (that is how it should be, by the way).

You see Barcelona live...ok...i still haven't heard a single objective argument.

Let's agree to disagree...this is useless. No hard feelings. We simply disagree and discussing will not change this.

 

[cfdh_edmundo]

Think Nottingham Forest have won the domestic league once but the CL (or European Cup as it then was) twice.

 

[NO_Limit]

What I hope is that they reorganize the team by selling some players and get some new one. Especially in the defense and offense we need some new players.
Villa is getting old and lost his "strengths" since he was injured. Alexis Sanchez got better at the end of the season but still should go because he needs way to many chances to score. Pedro is not as good as he used to be too. We need some new "fire". I would like to see Neymar even though it could go wrong. I think Messi and him would be a good duo. Addiotionaly I would give Delofou a chance in the first team.
The midfield has to change too. To my mind they should start to let Thiago play more and more instead of buying f.e. Gündogan. He should play in the following years the position of Xavi.
The defense is a big problem. Especially Dani Alves and Jordi Alba. Most of the game they are more in the area of the opposite than in the area of the goalkeeper. Jordi Albas defense skills aint that good. We need a new surrogate for Puyol. Either they find someone from Barcelona B and LET THEM PLAY more often or they buy someone like Hummels.
And last but not least the goalkeeper. Victor Valdez is going and the rumors that I heard is that they wanna buy Reina. But why. I mean he is slightly younger than Valdez. Now its the time to start with younger goalkeepers. The best idea would be to buy a good goalkeeper from Germany or if someone is good in Barcelona B get him.

Most importantly they should try to reduce the debts, which the current President is trying to do and not increasing it. Barcelona can achieve that but should waste the money all the time by buying players they don't need.(f.e. Song).

 

[YoungGun_UK]

Neymar bid rejected, the bidding war starts with Real Madrid going to bid next.

I think with the situation of Ronaldo I wouldn't be surprised if Madrid go all out to get him.

 

[Aboutreika18]

I don't think Neymar would fit in well with the current system, he'd have to play a peripheral role to Messi like Fabregas and Sanchez have after being the star players of their previous clubs.

They'd be better off getting someone like Reus instead.

 

[NO_Limit]

apparently he (Neymar) is coming. I'm really excited but at least one striker has to go!

 

[drekkard]

Barcelona needs someone who can play in the wing and dribble or cut inside, someone with excellent skill and speed, able to add goals and assists to the team and able to draw defenders attention off of Messi.

Now, Neymar may or may not work, but he suits all those needs to perfection. I doubt there's anyone out there that offers all this with the potential that Neymar does,

I'm late to the party of the "end of cycle", I agree a bit with everybody, because it's obvious we brought the possession paradigm too far and some of our key players were exhausted. There are multiple reasons why we lost to Bayern that way: injuries, illness of Tito, critical low form of key players at the wrong moment of the season, etc... I think any club with all those problems would have lost to the best team by far this season.

The most (and only) worrying things are knowing if Tito is really prepared to fix it, healthy to do so, and change our paradigm of play to secure deffense again and widen our ways of attacking.

If most of it is done, we will be favorites again to win it all. Now we need at least one defender, a striker, a goalkeeper and a physical midfielder.... With all this we may end a cycle and start a new one in one month...

 

[gerd]

All over Belgian (papers) websites: Barcelona are after Adnan Januzaj (currently playing for Man Utd), a young Belgian big talent.