FC Barcelona Thread

Lol and I'm curious to see how many goals he has 2nd assist on (What I mean is the pass BEFORE the final pass, so the pass before the assist)! Then you may see, he plays a big role in like 95% of goals Barca scores when he's on the pitch.
 
The thing that puts you in perspective about Messi is that yesterday he didn't even made a great effort. Most of the time he was literally walking around the pitch and from the 60th to the 80th minute he didn't even try to go at goal and started trying ellaborate passes.

You have the feeling that if he HAD to score 8 goals yesterday to save his life, he WOULD have scored them for sure.

When the games are decided, he likes to spend time associating with players far from goal, very laid back. He seems to be off the match, goes back and plays as a "4" when Xavi is not there. And then when he get into the final 30 meters and smells blood, then you're done.
 
But to win a world cup you need a team around you. Argentina is a bloody disaster, they have 5 amazing strikers an Messi, but the midfield and deffense is around the worse in their history. You just cant win with that.

I still remember the last WC,where Messi was expected to take the ball as a playmaker, do everything by himself and score. He did 5 assists because there was no one else around him. And the coaches have been terrible. Maradona ayed against Germany with 4 strikers, 4 defenders and Mascherano and Messi in the middle. Its impossible to win like this.

The haters always say taht At Barcelona Messi has Xavi and Iniesta at his back. And glad,y he has them. But I will destroy a myth here. Its obvious that when the 3 small play together and are fit, the team is just unbeatable. But if you take Messi statistics, the numbers are even slightly better when he plays without Xavi and Iniesta!!!

Really, it is. Most of the time its because the match is already decided, like yesterday, for example. He scored 3 goals withoutXavi and Iniesta in the pitch. But really, of the 3 wonder guys, he is the only one that mantains the same numbers even when the other 2 arent there. Xavi and Iniesta have slightly worse numbers without Messi in the pitch.

I have no doubt that if Messi was playing for Germany, France or Brazil, or any other important national team, they would probably win it!
 
I think your downplaying Argentina's quality Drekkard but I do agree Messi's been unfortunate at the last two tournaments but I do expect him to deliver in 2014.
 
YoungGun_UK said:
I think your downplaying Argentina's quality Drekkard but I do agree Messi's been unfortunate at the last two tournaments but I do expect him to deliver in 2014.
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Their best CB is Milito! And the midfiled is horrible, with no balance whatsoever. Players like Zanetti or Cambiasso wont offer much in terms of playmaking, and all of the forwards are cut in the same way. They may have some names but as a team they are very limited and as I said, the team gets weaker and weaker going backwards. Its hard to lay foundations of a competitive team on top of that.

But maybe I'm overreacting. Its only that whenever I watch them I can only see a desperate Messi having to do everything by himself.
 
Messi can play the classic "10" perfectly, in fact that's what he does at Barcelona. He's missing the traditional 4, 6 and 8, though. Playmakers and midfielders with whom he could associate.
 
I dont really buy the Argentina are terrible at the back arguement. He's being playing for them since 2005, and in terms of major tournaments that's 2 World Cups (2006, 2010) and two Copa Americas (2007, 2011). Everyone seems to agree with players like Aguero, Tevez, Lavezzi, Higuain, Di Maria etc and back in 2006 as well there was Crespo, Saviola etc they were certainly strong enough upfront. But also looking at the defensive and midfield players they have had in 2006 (and since), you've got (or had) Cambiasso, Walter Samuel, Ayala, Mascherano, Demichelis, Zanetti all have played countless big games including Champions League finals etc. Even what I would call the "second tier" Argentine defensive squad players like Heinze, Burdisso and Sorin (06) again have won many domestic leagues in different countries, and also have played in some CL or Libertadores finals (Latin American champions league). Even now they've got some good youngish players coming to the top of their game such as Zabaleta and Banega. Also there is a core of the possible squad who have strong domestic experience having either won the Argentine league or won the Libertadores. Guiñazú, D'Alessandro, Veron, these players are all pretty much reserves now for Argentina and all are experienced enough and have played at the top level in Latin America for the last few years.

Yes maybe their defence and midfield is not as strong as their attack, but I think it's still good enough to regularly get to say semi finals and finals of major competitions. Even when you look at some of the coaches they've had in that time, ok Maradona was a sentimental decision that backfired, but they've also had Pekerman and Basile since 2005, yet all they've really done in terms of achievement is come runner up in the Copa America in 2007. The 2006 and 2010 were underachievements, and the Copa America (at home) in 2011 was a very big underperformance given the talent of player. In my opinion Maradona's squad in 1986 was not stronger (maybe the same level) as the 2006 and 2010 Argentine squads, there were some players like Passarella, Kempes and Ramon Diaz who were world class, but there were also quite a few players in that squad who were not really spectacular.
 
I remember the 1986 WC rather well (i was 24 at the time and Belgium ended 4th in that WC, who was old enough then will never forget that one).
In 1986 Argentina had a pretty average team, but they had Maradonna in his prime...is one player enough to win a WC? Normally not i would think.
But this was a special world cup with lots of upsets among the stroong countries...The best playing countries like Denmark and the USSR went out pretty early (The USSR after a crazy match against a Belgian team who had nothing to loose and were a disgrace in the group stage).
In that team, beside Maradonna, they had Valdano and Burruchaga. The rest of the team was pretty average.

I think current day Argentina have plenty of good players, but they need a good coach. I think Peckerman did very well in 2006 and should have been kept. Another possibility is Bielsa who has done great with Chili and now with Athletic de Bilbao...

Messi deserves to win a WC...but people expect too much from him with Argentina and that maybe is the reason why he has been less brilliant with his national team.
 
I think without a clown like Maradonna in charge and a top coach, Argentina can and will succeed.

Pekerman was not a top coach either. He was in charge of youth team, did well and got the job at senior and then went back to youth development again. Nonetheless, I'd take him over Maradonna ANY day.

@Gerd, perhaps you don't remember but El Loco (Marcelo Bielsa) already was Argentina's manager a few years back. When Ariel Ortega was part of the team, etc.

I think their squad isn't THE best given that they lack the GREAT goalkeeper that many of the top countries have like Spain, Germany and Italy and that makes a BIG difference in championship winning teams or not and their defenders aren't the best, but nonetheless, I agree that the squad is more than good enough to achieve results, although not the strongest, it's been coaches that have been the problem and not managed to get the best out of the players.

Anyway, I'm sure they'll get better and Messi perhaps will win what he deserves.
 
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YOU COME BACK SOON ABI!!!

YES, YOU CAN !!!!!

Abidal_manteado.jpg
 
Lionel Messi, a 24 years old "kid" can became best goalscorer in history of FC Barcelona.

no words to describe this guy...
 
I would say that I saw Barca today's match (I dont see a lot from this team , i think this was 2 or 3th match i saw from them) , and i dont think Barca can beat "everyone" this year

to be honest Barca have one "garbige" goalkeeper but he looks "strong" coz barca most of the time atack so he dont have a lot to do !

also defender isnt that good , I have read persons say Pique its one of the best defender in the world right now , but i think hes not and not even near , hes good but not great in my opinion , Puyol its same as Carragher its old not and i dont he have lose his power and quality a bit

Middlefield and Atack its really strong and keep "alive" Barca as team

I think teams like Milan example now in CL can easy score vs Barca , i saw a "low" team tonight score 3 goals at now camp , thats scary !
 
It's the system/ style/ sheer dictating of play that enables them to be so effective. Playing against them is a f*cking nightmare, you almost want to let them have a chance just so something happens. Having played them 4 times in the last 3 seasons (as a United fan) it's just relentless. Pass to the final third - nothing on? Okay, back to defense. Pass back to the other side - nothing on? Okay back to defense. Pass into the middle, oh the offside line is slightly haggard now, through ball = chance.

It's brilliant, exhausting and almost impossible to play against for most teams.
 
Valon said:
I would say that I saw Barca today's match (I dont see a lot from this team , i think this was 2 or 3th match i saw from them) , and i dont think Barca can beat "everyone" this year

to be honest Barca have one "garbige" goalkeeper but he looks "strong" coz barca most of the time atack so he dont have a lot to do !

also defender isnt that good , I have read persons say Pique its one of the best defender in the world right now , but i think hes not and not even near , hes good but not great in my opinion , Puyol its same as Carragher its old not and i dont he have lose his power and quality a bit

Middlefield and Atack its really strong and keep "alive" Barca as team

I think teams like Milan example now in CL can easy score vs Barca , i saw a "low" team tonight score 3 goals at now camp , thats scary !
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first - Granada scored 3 goals...2 of penalty..1 don't was penalty...

second - Puyol same that carragher? oh my god...

third - Barça without iniesta,busquets,villa,abidal...what team play without 4 or 5 players?

and more important...Milan is ko, remember it...


ah!! another thing...victor valdes, 2 CL front ronaldo, drogba, henry...youc an see the videos...
 
yeah i don´t know why people don´t recognise Valdes as top class goal keeper, he might not be perfect, but he has something won over the years and if he wasn´t good enough, he wouldn´t play there above all..

Valon, no player in current Barca squad is garbage, no one. And Carra football ability is nowhere near Puyol´s, they are both defenders and legends for own clubs..but... can you see Carra playing for Barca? :) i can´t..i love him but you have strainge views on some top class players that Puyol (WORLD CUP WINNER) certainly is...


about Barca this season, they maybe can´t beat anyone, but they are top class team still..

I still think Milan could get past them, especially this season they are strong in attack and with Prince they have a good attacking mid who can score fantastic goals..
 
Valon's first line said it all.

He's watched 3/4 matches from this team out of 40/50 possible matches and he's forming opinions on players and the team based on this super small sample. He talks about Granada scoring 3 goals for example when up until half way through the season, NO team had even SCORED in Camp Nou! Not even 1! This was just a freak day. How often has Barca conceded even 2 goals in Nou Camp let alone 3? Barely ever happens.

I think AC Milan do have a chance but Barca will be favourites against them like against any other team.

As for the Puyol vs. Carragher comparison, I have to say it made me --> :LMAO:

They're both legends for their clubs and experienced veterans. But that's where the similarities end....

Comparing Captain Puyol to Jamie Carragher is like comparing Xavi to Charlie Adam.

Well said Pipa
 
Sina, watch out what you say about Carragher and Puyol. Soon Valon will say you hate both Liverpool and Carragher.

Look, it's very simple: i watch football for roughly 42 year now. There is not a single team that comes close to this Barcelona team, well maybe one, but that team was broken up by a civil war (Crvena Zvezda with Prosinecki, Mihailovic, Savicevic, Pancev and Belodedic) so we will never know if they came even close to Barcelona or other great teams.

This said, when i read that Neymar would also go to Barcelona, i can understand Neymar...but this is not good for football. Nowadays you got 2 super teams: Barcelona and Real Madrid. They are super teams because of the unfair division of television money both in Europe and within Spain (i simplify: of course Barcelona has la masia, but there are other clubs with good youth academies who then loose all their good players because they have no money). This is not good every sport needs competition. Competition is more or less gone in football.

I love to watch this Barcelona, i love Messi as a player and as a person, Barcelona are the only giant club i really like...but this year i hope a team like Bayern, Chelsea or even better Benfica or Apoel (i know, one can only dream) win the CL. Football desperately need other clubs to win silverware.

I will give another example about the state of football. Maybe what i hear is exagerated, but media and pundits are saying that here in Belgium we have a fantastic under 16 national team. The same people who are saying for years that Eden Hazard is something special are now claiming that in that team there are 4 players with more talent than Hazard and 4 or 5 more who are as good as Hazard (it sounds exagerated, i know, but that's what we hear and what we read). From the first eleven of that team there are only 2 players that still play in Belgium (one in Genk, one in Anderlecht). The rest play for clubs like Man Utd, Inter, Ajax, and even Sporting Lisboa...I heard one of the two players playing in Belgium gets clubs from all over Europe to sign him...this 15 year old kid has his own agent and the fee that kid asks only for signing with a club is 400.000 euro's...this is completely insane.
 
@ Gerd - I definitely agree that football as a whole is becoming more and more unequal and that it really is a sad thing. The worst for me is young, talented players going to big clubs and not playing. There are so many players that move to these giant clubs too early, and lose their formative years. But agents and greed cloud their judgement.

It really made me sad when Villa went to Barca. Such a magnificent player that was doing so well - there was no need for him at Barca. Similarly Berbatov leaving Spurs for United, or Lukaku going to Chelsea, Sahin to Real Madrid. Even seeing Sanchez move to Barca seemed sad to me - he was so good and such a big part of Udinese. All these players oculd have been so much more if they'd either stayed where they were or been 'stars' at a mid-size club.

Anyway, all for me adds up to pointing out that as good as Messi is (and undoubtedly, he's one of the best players we'll ever see) we'll never know how he would have done in a La Liga from 20 years ago - where there was some actual strength in depth. Barca are so far above every other team in Europe (aside from Madrid, and that's only lately) in terms of both resources and quality that it's hard to judge. He didn't do what Maradonna did - single handedly pulled a decent team to greatness.

For me if Messi truly wanted to show his 'greatness' he has to leave for another league, and do it there too. I doubt it would happen because he seems so happy, but that's how I view it.
 
Beachryan, that Maradonna singlehandedly made Napoli a big club is a big myth.
I was in my twenties when Napoli were at their peak...this was a very, very good team...much better than a decent team...
 
That's the thing with 'classic' players and why CURRENT players will ALWAYS be unfairly treated in comparison.

We live in TODAY's world and follow the beautiful game religiously and so know all the contemporary players inside out.

But when it comes to Pele, Cruiff, and to a lesser extent Maradonna, there are VERY few people (Gerd, you being one) that actually watched them on a CONSISTENT basis (Not just World Cups) and knew the players and all their team-mates to the level we know now. So they basically know these household names and if they're knowledgeable a handful of team-mates but that's where it ends. And because of this LACK of knowledge about the past and those teams and their full squads, wrong conclusions get made like well Pele did this and that with only 4 other good players, or Maradonna single handedly did this...

No not at all! I bet not. But the difference is we know every Napoli squad player TODAY because we live in this world today and because of an even increased popularity of the sport and internet, media, TV coverage, etc.

Back then, Napoli players were probably just as good if not better than the current team but was there as much media exposure, and most importantly, did we live in that era? No. So we don't know them and have only 'heard' of a handful so we jump to wrong conclusions.

Personally, I think it's MUCH harder to dominate in TODAY's Football than in the past where teams often lined up with 3 defenders and 3-4 attackers. It's now common to see teams play 4-5-1 formation with one up front and that was quite the opposite back then. Teams were way more attacking on average, less conservative and so there was much more OPEN space to attack and penetrate for a player with great skill and speed like Pele, Maradonna, Messi, etc.

Another thing is, football wasn't AS Cynical! Nowadays you have players on purpose bring each other down and foul much more viciously and do ANYTHING to win because football has become such a business. Back then there was more honour, more fairplay and more attacking. The game has also become much more PHYSICAL and a lot of stuff is 'allowed' that back then would've been a foul. Players are all stronger and on average better athletes as well.

These are all the reasons why for me, Messi IS the World's Greatest! He'd have done everything the past legends would've done in my opinion but even more easily as for me he's up against bigger challenges in a more difficult world (Football today as opposed to before).

But whenever a CURRENT player gets compared to PAST legends, it's always an unfair comparison because we just assume, the guys in the past were better. But if GOD himself was to appear as a current footballer, you'd have millions who would swear Pele or Maradonna were better but the truth is they've only seen highlights of them and less than 10 full matches and usually very few CLUB matches which is what you mostly play! In that sense, past legends are like fiction, fantasy and myth! No matter who appears now or 100 years from now and how good, they will always say something like but Pele was better! Maradonna was something else!
 
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