gerd said:
It becomes problematic when people attach values to those cultural differences...
exactly! cultural differences shouldn't be regarded as an obstacle by themselves. infact they are an incentive to enlarge your horizons (what would be the point in watching 3 different leagues if they all displayed the same football? if that was the case we might aswell watch just 1 football league). the problems begin when we watch a different league without even trying to understand its cultural backgroud. that is terribly wrong because
that cultural background is what makes european football schools so different.
this is gonna sound terribly simplicistic and not entirely correct, but it's just to give u an idea of what i'm talking about:
in england football is seen mostly as a sport, a challenge, a duel; and only if u fully comprehend that, u will be able to appreciate english football, because it's precisely this cultural approach to football that explains all the quirks of the british game. the lack of attention towards the technical aspect of the game and the tactical aspect of the game, the preponderance of the athletic aspect over everything else, the obsession with fair play (wich in the english game is more important than the game itself).
in spain instead football is seen as an expression of art, rather than a sport. think of how peacocks show off their tail feathers to impress chicks....that is quite a good metaphore of the spanish apprach to football. and since football is mostly an art for spanish, u will easily understand why the aesthetical factor is so dominant in spanish football. while english football is mostly about "
commitment athleticism and effort", spanish football is mostly about "
technique, talent and inspiration". and just like fair play is so important to english that it comes even before the game (the result) itself, the spanish value the "aesthetic" aspect of the game so much that it becomes more important than the game (the result) itself.
quick examples: if u win the game by diving, an english will consider this to be a tainted victory (or even not to be a victory at all). he will be willing to overlook just about everything else; poor technique, mediocre passing game, horrible defending... but no lapse in fair play are allowed on the pitch for an english. sure the english fan won't like it to see a player getting his leg broken because of a killer tackle, performed with awful timing..... however the english fan is going to show a higher tolerance for such episodes than a spanish fan (or an italian fan), because technique is generally underestimated in the english football school (while for a spanish fan a poor display of technique that endangers another player is seen as something much worse than diving). the usual english comment in theese cases is "
yeah he did bad, but i'm sure he didn't mean to hurt him".... an average spanish fan won't give a damn about the player's intentions; his lack of technique and the consequences of the bad tackle are enough for him to feel as outraged as u english guys feel whenever u see busquets faking an hearth attack on the pitch.
as for the spanish instead, if u win the game by displaying some unattractive football, then your victory is tainted (or even not a victory at all). the spanish fan won't like diving and cheating in all its forms of course, but he will show a higher tolerance than an english fan towards such matters. however, when it comes to type of football u display on the pitch, then there's no compromise for the spanish fan. playing conservative football is conceived as the worst form of cheating in spain. even the mere concept of defending is considered as something "kinda unfair" in the spanish game. if u beat them by displaying a counter-attacking strategy, then the spanish will look down on u with contempt (just like u epl fans do with the likes of busquets).
italians instead have more practical (cynical, if u like) approach to football. while for english and spanish the game, the result never comes first (what comes first for the epl fan is the effort and the fair play, whereas what comes first for the spanish fan is the aesthetic beauty of the plays), for the italian school, nothing is more important than the result. if the english game is mostly about "
commitment, athleticism and effort"..... and the spanish game is mostly about "
technique, talent and inspiration", the italian game is mostly about "
technique and delivering". we are as obsessed with technique as our spanish cousins, but since we don't consider the aesthetic aspect more important than the result, we have developed a taste for tactics.
long story short, in england football is seen as a sport, a challenge - u might win or lose, the most important thing is that u must perform at your very best level (commitment and effort) and stay classy (fair play)....
in spain football is considered an expression of art - u might win or lose, the most important thing is that u entertain the spectators with some high quality game......
in italy football is seen as nothing more than a game. u either win or u lose. that's it. no higher moral implications, no ethical (nor "aesthetical") values are involved in it.
now, there's no right or wrong approach to football, of course. the italian philosophy, the spanish one, and the english one, they all have their good aspects and their flaws.
but what's most important is that whenever u're watching a spanish football game (or an italian match) u have to drop your "epl glasses" and realise that u're about to watch something different from english football..... something
that is supposed to be different from english football. those non-written rules, those cultural habits that surround english football, don't apply anymore here. different rules, different habits take effect here.
so for the time u're watching a liga game, u gotta forget about your "english football prejudices" (cultural differences are mostly about prejudices) and learn (and embrace) some different prejudices (the spanish ones). if u don't do that, u will never be able to appreciate other football schools.
if u can't accept that there are other ways to approach football, u will end up doing the very same mistake Gerd was talking about in that line i quoted above; u will mix "values" with "culture", wich like gerd said, is a scary and very dangerous exercise.
of course football is nothing serious, so the consequences of a fundamentalist orthodoxy wouldn't be so tragic. but they're still not nice and they won't make u look smart in the eye of other people.
the first consequence is that u can't appreciate different interpretations of football, because u're just too disturbed by what u consider to be unacceptable "abominations". that is the case when u can't enjoy barça's amazing football, only because u're obsessed by their diving. this is not a healthy approach to a different footballing school. and if u can't help but feel that way, then u should probably just stick to english football and not even try to open your mind.
the second consequence is the obvious result of the first one. since u can't get rid of your cultural structure and embrace a different approach to football (even just for 90 minutes), u will inevitably tend to judge every football school through english criteria and standards (wich is terribly wrong).... and that will obviusly bring u to overrate your football culture and to underestimate every different philosophy and approach to football..... because obviously no other school will be better than the english one, as long as u apply english standards.
do u guys see where i am going here?
anyway this doesn't happen only to english fans of course. i know plenty of spanish guys who can't appreciate italian football, just because they refuse to aknowledge the fact that defending is part of the game. some other spanish friends instead can't appreciate english football because because they can't accept the fact that counter-attack is not a blasphemy.
and i also know many italian people who dislike english football because of the poor quality of the passing game and the terrible defending.
so theese sort of football prejudices are not an english prerogative
the best way to get in touch with a different culture is to travel, but a much simpler and cheaper solution is to look for original language match commentaries. if u're watching a la liga game, see if u have the double audio option on your decoder (or look for a spanish stream on the internet), because honestly watching a spanish game with english people "commenting" it is definitely not gonna help u (plus it's a good way to learn a new language, if u can't speak spanish).
i realise i've been rambling a lot with this post, but your posts gave me a chance to tell u something u guys might find useful, if u really wanna get in touch with spanish footie......
because very often i see people coming into this thread and commenting barcelona's football as if they were talking about english football.... wich is just wrong.
of course if this was a community with a majority of spanish people, u would see them often coming into the english club threads and commenting about how poor is the english game in terms of quality and how some segunda division teams play much better football than almost half the teams in premier league.....
... in that case i would probably say those spanish fans to drop their "liga glasses" whenever they watch english footie and to embrace the english football culture.
to finish this post with at least one single "on topic comment"

, i don't think what happened was "nice", but i really wouldn't waste any time talking about sportsmanship or morality or right or wrong. football is much simpler than life, we have a clear threshold wich divides what's right and what's wrong: a book of rules. so until we issue a new rule wich will solve this ridiculously ambiguous situation (and i think we should), there's no point in talking about right or wrong. at least that's how i see it.
