FC Barcelona Thread

Yep, there's a great left back in the youth team, but he's still too young to make it to the first team. Let's wait to see if he does well and learns to play at higher competition.

He's called Grimaldo, and you can find some info here:
http://www.marca.com/2011/09/05/futbol/equipos/barcelona_b/1315223246.html

There's also a potentially star striker in the youth teams, called Dongou:
http://www.sport.es/es/noticias/barca/pluriempleo-sienta-maravilla-killer-dongou-1433661

I've watched them play and both are very promising.. first team promising, actually, but they need time.
 
Yeah I hear lot of rumours bout Barca buying Alba and to be honest, I'm all for that! Of course I don't like to see Valencia get weaker but he will be a great buy just like Dani Alves was even though he'll cost quite a bit of money.

And while other areas of the team can improve, for me he's the only MUST transfer! That one transfer alone can make Barca really complete and strong again in my opinion.
 
Would be nice for Alba to turn around and say 'no, I'd rather play for Valencia' but we all know that wouldn't happen.

Barca strengthening is the last thing football needs.
 
I can see where you are coming from matherto, but your choice is rather subjective. I would say that the last thing football needs is the 20 strongest clubs stengthening. It is rather arbitrary to single Barcelona out. If you look at the squad (and not the first 11) teams like Real Madrid and Manchester City are definitely stronger, maybe Milan is stronger...

Concerning Valencia...i also see your point, but to be honest with you as a fan of Racing Genk i don't sympathize too much with Valencia. This is a club that should be bankrupt and yest can continue to play on...ridiculizing a perfectly healthy club like Genk with 7-0. Let Genk spend the money Valencia has spend and they would also perform much, much better.

All those clubs from big competitions like Valencia but also Lazio and Parma, Atletico Madrid, Deportivo La Coruna,...at one point had the impression that they could overtake the big clubs in an essentially unfair competition and started to overspend...
 
i think they were pointing out that the keeper didn´t stop prepearing his wall.. i don´t know if the ref blow the whistle before the direct FK
 
PIPA23 said:
i think they were pointing out that the keeper didn´t stop prepearing his wall.. i don´t know if the ref blow the whistle before the direct FK
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No, he didn't... but he only needs to if he stopped the game specifically, for example if he wants to show a card.. the goal was perfectly legal, it was not even so much of a quick free kick imo, they had been standing there for half a minute already surely..
 
Chris00 said:
No, he didn't... but he only needs to if he stopped the game specifically, for example if he wants to show a card.. the goal was perfectly legal, it was not even so much of a quick free kick imo, they had been standing there for half a minute already surely..
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yeah but..i mean untill the keeper is setting his defence in a wall, the ref should not allow the player to kick a direct free kick...the wall this way lose the meaning no?
 
do you read what you write? I didn't know that wall is set up on request of a team that has been awarded a free kick. I always thought that it is a way to defend a goal...
 
It's very unsportsman like to do that type of freekick, but I think Thierry Henry did one similar for us a few years ago.

When we did it, it didn't feel nice and I expect a team like as we were then and a Barcelona team now to be better than resorting to that type of goal.

The rules should make it not possible to score like that, unless the other team are really timewasting and the ref has warned them. It should always be to the whistle imo.
 
i mean if the players hold the ball with arms setting up a free direct kick, the game is not in "normal mode" it´s a break for player to set the ball and kick...

it should be always remembered by ref that with the whistle a normal "non-ball touching with hands mode" is on and the player can perform the direct kick..

the same way everything is judged by the ref by whistle..

not pointing out on barca on this..becouse other time for other teams this happend..
 
For me it is unsportsmanlike. Didn't the same thing happen with Arsenal against Porto in the CL a couple of years ago?
 
Yeah Falcao scored it for Porto. Thing is even Spurs did it to Arsenal on the weekend. Players need to stop whining about a call . Refs decision I wouldnt expect any player to wait for the oppossing team ffs . Messi was right to do it just like Bale was on the weekend.
 
It's just another example of FIFA not having its sh*t together. The logic is that as the team that has been fouled, you should not be disadvantaged by the break in play - so you should be able to choose how to take the free kick (unless the ref needs to sort something out for injury or a card).

However, this ambiguity leads to bad situations like the one yesterday. Giggs did it to Lyon in the CL, and the Lyon players almost walked off the pitch. It IS unsportsmanlike, but it is within the rules too.

There's obviously a difference between taking it quickly (as Barca usually do - just put a hand on the ball and then get on with passing) and waiting a little bit longer until the GK starts setting things up - then surprising everyone by taking the free kick quickly. That is the unsporting bit.

For me personally the referee should force the attacking team to decide instantly - either play on after making sure the ball is stopped and in the right place, or if they don't immediately play on, then they have to wait til both sides are set up.

Then again, it is worth noting this IS football we're talking about. Handballed goals, feigned injuries to disrupt play, sly fouls behind the refs back and of course dives are all part and parcel of what make the game what it is. So a bit of nastiness in a free kick is hardly the worst thing that goes on.

If we're honest, football is probably the least honorable organised sport in the world. It rewards deliberate, unabashed cheating. (see Maradonna, Diego)
 
ye Lille players tried to walked off the pitch when giggs done this, it is lame as fuck. henry did it against chelsea aswell. it was a nice shot though by messi, defenders normally would kick the ball out so they cant do quick free-kick but if you need to set up a wall then bootin' it out aint gonna help..
 
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Personally I can't even understand how on earth it is unsportsmanship to do what you are allowed to do.

I mean, the deffensive team has done a foul, and broke the offesnive play. The offensive team can resume the play whenever they want. There are a lot of cases when a team quickly shoots the ball or make a pass. If you are the defending team, you have to be smart and focused.

It's only pathetic that doing a foul should imply stopping the play until the defender team has recovered positions. Precisely the rules are against it and the only occasion where the play is stopped is because there's a card involved OR if the attacking time ASKS for a wall.

Beyond that, the same way the defensive team can do a foul to his profit, the offensive team can shoot when they want to their profit.

If Messi's goal is unsportive, then whenever a team quickly takes a free kick it's unsportive? Arsenal did take a lot of free kicks in the midfield quickly against Totthenham this weekend, is that unsportive as well?

What's the difference? That Messi scored? If Messi had passed to someone right after the ref whistled the foul, then it wouldn't have been unsportive? Where's the limit between being smart and unsportive then? I get you can't quickly take a throw in as well, because the other team it's not in position? You can't quickly take any free kick in the pitch to benefit someone's position? What shall we do, wait for the deffensive team to say "yes, now we're ready, kick the ball now"?

Nuts! If you're the defending team and the defending Goalkeeper, it's your duty to KNOW what the other team can and can't do and stay focused. All in all, it's your team who did a foul to stop an attacking player. Get on with it.
 
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@ Drekkard - the difference is what I tried to articulate. The defending team should be able alert to a 'quick' free kick, but that's not what happened in these instances.

What happened is the attacking team essentially 'tricked' the defending team by pausing long enough for them to start setting up a wall - at which point they are then waiting for the ref's whistle - and then you do something like Messi/ Giggs/ Henry. To me that's unsporting.

It's similar to contesting a drop ball, or not returning the ball after the other team plays it out after an injury. It's not against the rules, but it's also not in the 'spirit of the game'.

And don't come back with 'oh but a defender committed the offense therefore they should be punished' because that's not the point. They've conceded a free kick - take it fast or set up a formal free kick. That's your advantage.
 
Hmmm, I see your point clearly now, and you may have some reason there. I get it may be tagged as unsportive, then. Though I still think the error is on the deffense. Maybe it's too stretched out but I still see it as a smart action if it is Tricking the opponent according to the rules, if you get me. Maybe I'm wrong, though, now I have my doubts.

I have to add, though, that it may also be a cultural thing. Here in Spain Messi action was seen as a genius thing. I mean, no one complained about it, and all media, no matter which, considered it a brilliant action. I think in Italy it would have been like that, too. Lets see if Ben can enlighten us on this.
 
In Spain did they also appreciate his handball goal? Just out of interest.

I agree it is very cultural. Though surely even the Barca fans dislike Busquets? (from a sportmanship point of view, he's a wonderful footballer)
 
beachryan said:
@ Drekkard - the difference is what I tried to articulate. The defending team should be able alert to a 'quick' free kick, but that's not what happened in these instances.

What happened is the attacking team essentially 'tricked' the defending team by pausing long enough for them to start setting up a wall - at which point they are then waiting for the ref's whistle - and then you do something like Messi/ Giggs/ Henry. To me that's unsporting.

It's similar to contesting a drop ball, or not returning the ball after the other team plays it out after an injury. It's not against the rules, but it's also not in the 'spirit of the game'.

And don't come back with 'oh but a defender committed the offense therefore they should be punished' because that's not the point. They've conceded a free kick - take it fast or set up a formal free kick. That's your advantage.
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This :))
 
I'm pretty sure it's cultural.
The difference is biggest between England and certain southern European countries. Basicly (or simplisticly) what most English people see as cheating is seen as being clever by Portugese, Greek, Italian and Spanish people.

The flip side of it all is that in those countries people often have theories about referees being manipulated, the FA being partial and things like that. I remember this Olympiakos fan who was convinced that everybody was against his club in the group stage of the latest CL. You can also read it in this thread, the Real Madrid thread and the threads about Serie A and La Liga.

I also was a litle bit astonished of the English reaction about Suarez' hands against Ghana in the latest WC. Like most neutrals i was also gutted that Ghana was eliminated. But i kind of understand Suarez hand ball (not his reaction afterwards). In England he was seen as a vilain and in Uruguay as a hero.

IMO this is the difference between Norther Europe and Latin Europe. I was born right on the divide between two cultures (literally a couple of hunderd metres from where i grew up and where my parents live). This difference in mentality is one of the reasons why Belgium is virtually ungovernable and will end up like Cechoslovakia (and i would not like that).

It becomes problematic when people attach values to those cultural differences, that is happening now in my country and it scares me a litle bit.

But now i'm getting off-topic. Sorry.
 
gerd said:
I'm pretty sure it's cultural.
The difference is biggest between England and certain southern European countries. Basicly (or simplisticly) what most English people see as cheating is seen as being clever by Portugese, Greek, Italian and Spanish people.

The flip side of it all is that in those countries people often have theories about referees being manipulated, the FA being partial and things like that. I remember this Olympiakos fan who was convinced that everybody was against his club in the group stage of the latest CL. You can also read it in this thread, the Real Madrid thread and the threads about Serie A and La Liga.
...

But now i'm getting off-topic. Sorry.
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That's absolute right. And I totally understand your fears about the Belgium situation. We have a similar situation here at Catalunya and it seems that no one has the real will to solve the problems. What strange dynamics come into play when people get together, eh?

beachryan said:
In Spain did they also appreciate his handball goal? Just out of interest.

I agree it is very cultural. Though surely even the Barca fans dislike Busquets? (from a sportmanship point of view, he's a wonderful footballer)
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A handball is mostly seen as an extremely unfair action. No one complained about it. In fact, it was a great decision by the ref and a deserved yellow for Messi.

But in Argentina they adore Maradona as a god and they even have that "hand of god" thing for a totally unfair goal. So I think there's a lot involved with culture and the outcome of the match. I wonder what would happen if Lampard scored a last minute goal with the hand to win the World Cup. Just out of interest, too!

matherto said:
Nah, if they disliked Busquets, they'd dislike the rest of them as well.
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I think you're just being rude with no need, here. Personally I don't like Busquets, and a lot of fans don't like him neither, precisely because of the tendency he has to dive and feign. It's disgusting. And to some extent, it happens with Alves as well. But saying that all Barcelona players behave like this is just very unfair.

A lot of times I see people criticizing Barcelona for the tiniest details, while totally ignoring that the opponents facing Barcelona in La Liga are absolutely unfair in terms of time wasting, violent tackling, cheating the ref and feigning. If your team ends up playing on a competition where all the teams do that, I assure you even the most orthodox Oxford gentlemen club team would end up doing it to some extent. Do I like it? Nope.

I still remember the Champions League 2nd round against Inter. Busquets was an idiot, as usual, and that's what everyone remembers even forgetting the absolute robbery of the first round. But beyond that, Inter wasted a guiness-record amount of time (only 42 minutes were effectively played!!!!) feigning injuries, wasting time. As an example that happened just in front of my seat, Maicon blatantly feigned an injury until he was aware that he was outside the pitch. So he stood up, dragged himself inside again and fell down to stop a play. Isn't that equally unfair?

Some Barcelona fans criticized the imbecile Busquets and some didn't (I've always been very clear about him), while not a single Inter fan criticized the behaviour of his team (and very few in this board did). In Italy, Inter were seen as heroes although they had done everything possible to disrupt the match in the most unfair ways.

That's just to illustrate that a lot of times the outcome of the match and the cultural frame of it change a lot how things are seen.

As I said, in Spain the last Messi goal is seen as an act of brilliance. There are cultural differences and there is no absolute right or wrong. You have to respect those differences even if you don't like them. I don't like a lot of things of Spain. But you see, in Spain most people see the english fans as braindead drunk hooligans, because that's the experience they've had with them. Only a fool would think that these people represent the whole country, isn't it?
 
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gerd said:
It becomes problematic when people attach values to those cultural differences...
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exactly! cultural differences shouldn't be regarded as an obstacle by themselves. infact they are an incentive to enlarge your horizons (what would be the point in watching 3 different leagues if they all displayed the same football? if that was the case we might aswell watch just 1 football league). the problems begin when we watch a different league without even trying to understand its cultural backgroud. that is terribly wrong because that cultural background is what makes european football schools so different.

this is gonna sound terribly simplicistic and not entirely correct, but it's just to give u an idea of what i'm talking about:
in england football is seen mostly as a sport, a challenge, a duel; and only if u fully comprehend that, u will be able to appreciate english football, because it's precisely this cultural approach to football that explains all the quirks of the british game. the lack of attention towards the technical aspect of the game and the tactical aspect of the game, the preponderance of the athletic aspect over everything else, the obsession with fair play (wich in the english game is more important than the game itself).

in spain instead football is seen as an expression of art, rather than a sport. think of how peacocks show off their tail feathers to impress chicks....that is quite a good metaphore of the spanish apprach to football. and since football is mostly an art for spanish, u will easily understand why the aesthetical factor is so dominant in spanish football. while english football is mostly about "commitment athleticism and effort", spanish football is mostly about "technique, talent and inspiration". and just like fair play is so important to english that it comes even before the game (the result) itself, the spanish value the "aesthetic" aspect of the game so much that it becomes more important than the game (the result) itself.

quick examples: if u win the game by diving, an english will consider this to be a tainted victory (or even not to be a victory at all). he will be willing to overlook just about everything else; poor technique, mediocre passing game, horrible defending... but no lapse in fair play are allowed on the pitch for an english. sure the english fan won't like it to see a player getting his leg broken because of a killer tackle, performed with awful timing..... however the english fan is going to show a higher tolerance for such episodes than a spanish fan (or an italian fan), because technique is generally underestimated in the english football school (while for a spanish fan a poor display of technique that endangers another player is seen as something much worse than diving). the usual english comment in theese cases is "yeah he did bad, but i'm sure he didn't mean to hurt him".... an average spanish fan won't give a damn about the player's intentions; his lack of technique and the consequences of the bad tackle are enough for him to feel as outraged as u english guys feel whenever u see busquets faking an hearth attack on the pitch.

as for the spanish instead, if u win the game by displaying some unattractive football, then your victory is tainted (or even not a victory at all). the spanish fan won't like diving and cheating in all its forms of course, but he will show a higher tolerance than an english fan towards such matters. however, when it comes to type of football u display on the pitch, then there's no compromise for the spanish fan. playing conservative football is conceived as the worst form of cheating in spain. even the mere concept of defending is considered as something "kinda unfair" in the spanish game. if u beat them by displaying a counter-attacking strategy, then the spanish will look down on u with contempt (just like u epl fans do with the likes of busquets).

italians instead have more practical (cynical, if u like) approach to football. while for english and spanish the game, the result never comes first (what comes first for the epl fan is the effort and the fair play, whereas what comes first for the spanish fan is the aesthetic beauty of the plays), for the italian school, nothing is more important than the result. if the english game is mostly about "commitment, athleticism and effort"..... and the spanish game is mostly about "technique, talent and inspiration", the italian game is mostly about "technique and delivering". we are as obsessed with technique as our spanish cousins, but since we don't consider the aesthetic aspect more important than the result, we have developed a taste for tactics.

long story short, in england football is seen as a sport, a challenge - u might win or lose, the most important thing is that u must perform at your very best level (commitment and effort) and stay classy (fair play)....
in spain football is considered an expression of art - u might win or lose, the most important thing is that u entertain the spectators with some high quality game......
in italy football is seen as nothing more than a game. u either win or u lose. that's it. no higher moral implications, no ethical (nor "aesthetical") values are involved in it.

now, there's no right or wrong approach to football, of course. the italian philosophy, the spanish one, and the english one, they all have their good aspects and their flaws.
but what's most important is that whenever u're watching a spanish football game (or an italian match) u have to drop your "epl glasses" and realise that u're about to watch something different from english football..... something that is supposed to be different from english football. those non-written rules, those cultural habits that surround english football, don't apply anymore here. different rules, different habits take effect here.
so for the time u're watching a liga game, u gotta forget about your "english football prejudices" (cultural differences are mostly about prejudices) and learn (and embrace) some different prejudices (the spanish ones). if u don't do that, u will never be able to appreciate other football schools.
if u can't accept that there are other ways to approach football, u will end up doing the very same mistake Gerd was talking about in that line i quoted above; u will mix "values" with "culture", wich like gerd said, is a scary and very dangerous exercise.

of course football is nothing serious, so the consequences of a fundamentalist orthodoxy wouldn't be so tragic. but they're still not nice and they won't make u look smart in the eye of other people.
the first consequence is that u can't appreciate different interpretations of football, because u're just too disturbed by what u consider to be unacceptable "abominations". that is the case when u can't enjoy barça's amazing football, only because u're obsessed by their diving. this is not a healthy approach to a different footballing school. and if u can't help but feel that way, then u should probably just stick to english football and not even try to open your mind.
the second consequence is the obvious result of the first one. since u can't get rid of your cultural structure and embrace a different approach to football (even just for 90 minutes), u will inevitably tend to judge every football school through english criteria and standards (wich is terribly wrong).... and that will obviusly bring u to overrate your football culture and to underestimate every different philosophy and approach to football..... because obviously no other school will be better than the english one, as long as u apply english standards.
do u guys see where i am going here? :))

anyway this doesn't happen only to english fans of course. i know plenty of spanish guys who can't appreciate italian football, just because they refuse to aknowledge the fact that defending is part of the game. some other spanish friends instead can't appreciate english football because because they can't accept the fact that counter-attack is not a blasphemy.
and i also know many italian people who dislike english football because of the poor quality of the passing game and the terrible defending.
so theese sort of football prejudices are not an english prerogative ;))

the best way to get in touch with a different culture is to travel, but a much simpler and cheaper solution is to look for original language match commentaries. if u're watching a la liga game, see if u have the double audio option on your decoder (or look for a spanish stream on the internet), because honestly watching a spanish game with english people "commenting" it is definitely not gonna help u (plus it's a good way to learn a new language, if u can't speak spanish).

i realise i've been rambling a lot with this post, but your posts gave me a chance to tell u something u guys might find useful, if u really wanna get in touch with spanish footie......
because very often i see people coming into this thread and commenting barcelona's football as if they were talking about english football.... wich is just wrong.
of course if this was a community with a majority of spanish people, u would see them often coming into the english club threads and commenting about how poor is the english game in terms of quality and how some segunda division teams play much better football than almost half the teams in premier league.....
... in that case i would probably say those spanish fans to drop their "liga glasses" whenever they watch english footie and to embrace the english football culture.

to finish this post with at least one single "on topic comment" :P , i don't think what happened was "nice", but i really wouldn't waste any time talking about sportsmanship or morality or right or wrong. football is much simpler than life, we have a clear threshold wich divides what's right and what's wrong: a book of rules. so until we issue a new rule wich will solve this ridiculously ambiguous situation (and i think we should), there's no point in talking about right or wrong. at least that's how i see it. :))
 
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:WORSHIP:

F'n brilliant!

Couldn't have been said better and you make ALL the right points and communicated very effectively Ben! Congrats.

I also agree with and like Gerd and drekkard's post right before.

Now what makes matters more interesting is that as detailed and insightful this post above is, this only briefly covers about 3 cultures (Spanish, Italian and English), you have very different ones in Eastern Europe, Germany and France which I find particularly interesting because it seems to share a combination of many other neighboring countries and is less rigid and then you have Asia and Latin America and Africa which are also very different.

A huge world we live in, and the only right thing to do is to embrace and see the beauty in all of it. :)
 
In the states goals of the week; Ronaldo`s #1 Messi`s #2 Gutierrez (Newsc) #3 VanPersie #4.


lo zio your post is better than most blogs out there :)) looking forward to read more of your revelations on the world of football/futbol/soccer .
 
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