FC Barcelona Thread

This board is making things go worse so quickly!

They couldn't avoid the end of an era, which can be hard to do (good times always come to an end). But now they are truly destroying everything that made the club great some years ago.

Signing Suarez, a 28 year old guy who just had knee surgery and just after he behave again like a wild child, someone who can't even step into a stadium, not train... for 80 M€. Well, it's a debatable decision, because at least the guy is quality.

After spending 3 summers without signing any CB (due to their incompetence) now they splash 20 M€ for Mathieu, who is 31 and played as a CB for the first time in his career last season.

Zubizarreta may be the worse Manager I've never seen. What a pitty, it's very sad to see how those guys have sold the club to Qatar, will get rich stealing money with a very shadowy Satdium Renweal Project (that goes up to 3 times what Laporta was going to do) and are being abused by other clubs in any negotiation.

Plus, Xavi won't go away by now because he asks for 8 M€ in order to leave.

My god, this club is in shambles...
 
I think Mathieu is quality, was one of the best is his position last year behind Atlético's CBs. However he's not worth 20 mil, they could've easily had a top class CB with that fee.

drekkard said:
....Plus, Xavi won't go away by now because he asks for 8 M€ in order to leave...
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What's the deal here?
 
This "smart" board renewed Xavi 2 years ago with a stupid contract that made him earn MORE the OLDER he would get. He's now 34 and his wages are about 8 m€ net per season. He would earn 8.5 and 9 in the next teo seasons. Whoever proposed that must be an idiot.

Now, Xavi is not even a shadow of whar he was and should retire from elite football. The problem is that no one is paying him even half of that, of course! So the player asked the club to pay him % of the remainder of the contract to go away. As the club now realizes the mistake they did they dont want to pay that much, resulting in Xavi deciding to rest here until january and then ask a smaller fee for leaving to the EEUU.

It speaks volumes about the monkeys managing the club and the attitude of Xavi, who in the last seasons has turned into a big mouth and has no respect or true love for the club. He could learn from Puyol, the real legend.

About Mathieu, it's the highest fee ever a club has paid for a +30 defender, DOUBLING the second (cannavaro 11 m€ to madrid). It's a silly move and I doubt he has the attributes to play in our system. All in all an absolute mess...
 
I see. Well, I think their intention was to reward Xavi for all he's done for club by giving him a nice retirement, however the execution was flawed and it spoiled everything.
That's what happens when big money gets involved, things become messy and destructive. Too much of a good thing.

And yeah for the genius his is on the pitch, Xavi isn't that bright of a person outside of it. A shame, really.
 
Barca did sell (2) players that loosen the wages. Im sure all coming in are on low wages. The transfer fee they gotten is in the positive (+) gains. Barca`s football is going to be a little different I `d imagine.
 
amineken22 said:
I see. Well, I think their intention was to reward Xavi for all he's done for club by giving him a nice retirement, however the execution was flawed and it spoiled everything.
That's what happens when big money gets involved, things become messy and destructive. Too much of a good thing.

And yeah for the genius his is on the pitch, Xavi isn't that bright of a person outside of it. A shame, really.
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Well, that's a very interesting debate and I have a very radical oppinion on it. The club doesn't need to reward ANY player, I don't care if it's Xavi or Messi or whoever. Those people are greatly payed (and surely overpaid) for their work. If they do their work well, they earn more. This is their reward. To me there's a logical proportion between performance = money. According to this, Barcelona doesn't owe anything to Xavi.

Xavi has a big reward in terms of fondness by the club fans and by being considered a legend. This is his reward. The moment that a player thinks he needs to be given more money for the things he already did, then he's a maercenary.

Imagine you go to your boss and say: Hey, I've been a great worker in the past years. You raised me the wages when I worked better, but I won't work as many hours from now on and I won't perform, I'm tired and probably I will go to another company where I'll be more relaxed, but as I did great two years ago, you should reward me NOW".

Call me a romantic, but real legends drain their energy from the fans, the love and the emotions. That's what Puyol did. He retired and rejected 7 M€ for his last yeras of contract. The club then REWARDED him giving him a job in the club, where he's actively working right now. To me, this is a reward. The other thing is blackmail, it's what mercenaries do. And if you have millions and millions already at your bank account, then you're a prick.
 
Yes, that's because of the money. But hey, maybe a Qatar team appears again, delivers the money and he goes away at the end.
 
What a terrible season it will be. Iniesta and Busquets are a total black hole and Luis Enrique has shown 0 new ideas by now, other than making the midfield even more slow. The team is highly unbalanced and abuses of short-passing to a level never seen before. It's as if we are absolutely unable to risk the ball.

I'm very demoralized because of the worse board I've seen in ages, a mediocre manager and a team too crowded with remnants (men and ideas) of a glorious past that right now are a dead weight.

I hope I'm wrong but it looks as if this season could be worse than the previous.

PS: I love Rakitic! But he will suffer like Cesc in a team obsessed with retaining the ball no matter what and giving the back to the opponent goal and playing without spaces.
 
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Hi Alex, you sound very pessimistic.
I doubt it will be as worse as you think, but even so, the lows make one appreciate the highs much more...it wouldn't be good if a team constantly had highs, that isn't good for football...i know that as a fan you couldn't care less, but i think you see my point...
 
gerd said:
Hi Alex, you sound very pessimistic.
I doubt it will be as worse as you think, but even so, the lows make one appreciate the highs much more...it wouldn't be good if a team constantly had highs, that isn't good for football...i know that as a fan you couldn't care less, but i think you see my point...
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Of course I see your point, and being pessimistic doesn't mean I'm sad or fustrated. Sports have high and lows and you have to live through them and enjoy what you can. I had to endure 5 years without titles and terrible teams (for our standards in the last decades) before, so it's nothing new.

The bitterness is because we had everything in our hands, a great team, lots of money, a great instituion that worked great. The the current board arrived and destroyed everything out of resentment and slfishness. I know the people whose behind the decisions of the club, the way they're making money out of it and the way they have totally ruined what could have been a great team.

People like Busquests, Iniesta and Pique have been underperforming for 2 seasons yet they sell Alexis and Cesc. We spend 85 M€ in a player that brings bad image to our club yet we need defenders and good midfielders and Zubizarreta can take the finger out of his nose.

And we had Marco Reus available and they decided not to sign him because we already have Xavi and Iniesta. Reus in the last season scored + assisted more than Iniesta in the last 4 seasons...

In the tactical department, it seems there's only one way to play, which consists in short passing to death awaiting for the moment messi alone does something. This talibanism of football is boring, plain and also uneffective. Football consists in shooting at goal and deny the opponent. Right now we fail at both.

Luis Enrique has not shown anything and we need someone who makes a revolution to the team. Too many big guys in the squad who think they're too important and know everything and won't change their style. We needed someone like Klopp, Low or even Valverde.

Plus, there is project for the renewal of the stadium, which is an oversized and absurd project created to steal money from the club, and I know what I'm talking about! They will earn millions with it. Add the fact that our former president is facing court and our current board is already in the way of the courts, presumably guilty, the FIFA bans, the incapacity of the board to defend themselves from the attacks of external groups...

Really, they achieved all this in only 3.5 years!

zeemeister said:
I am hoping things kick into gear once Messi returns because we looked a bit meh judging by the friendlies. At the moment I share drekkards pessimism but I have hope
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Messi alone can't save a team anymore. Las season he scored 40 goals even though he underperformed, but look at the form of the players he has around. Pique, Busquets, Iniesta, Xavi, Pedro... all of them players far from their form, mentally burned and uncapable of playing direct football, running or pressing. It's impossible to succeed like this.

And if you dar to look at the bench, don't get scared: Bartra, Montoya, Sergio Roberto, Rafinha, Deulofeu, Song, Adriano... Really, our squad gets weaker and weaker each season.

And we have spent 300 M€ in signings!

bebo said:
Reus seems very upset that Barca pulled out. He should go there Di Maria esque and sort the system.
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This is one of my worse disappointments. Reus IS the man we need. It's the perfect replacement of Iniesta, whose numbers are a complete shame. But as I said, the talibans at the club (board and most of the fans) seem to live in a glorious past dream in which they think Iniesta is still a great player. And that's why they let Thiago go away and they won't sign Reus. It's so frigging obvious I don't understand it.

I know I'm only dreaming but the Barcelona I had in mind was more something like:

Ter Stegen

Boateng | Hummels | Vertongen | Alba

Rakitic | Mascherano

Reus | Messi | Neymar

Suarez

And let's forget the 4-3-3 that doesn't bring more than possession and favour a more direct football, which would greatly benefit the likes of Neymar, Suarez and Messi.
 
Is it a very early decline because he has wasted the last 2 seasons with terrible perfomrances. He's already burned out and adding almost nothing to the team. He's a good guy, an honest lad who has great skills. But how many midfielders can earn 10 M€ per season scoring 4 goals and assisting only 8? In a team that scores +100 goals? Messi was the light that hide those problems, the moment Messi stepped aside due to injuries, Iniesta and other weren't there. Alexis was there, and has been sold.

Iniesta was a magician some years ago, but I think that this whole generation that gifted us with some of the best years of football I've ever watched has been burned prematurely because of the amount of matches and the pressure of maximum competition for too many years on a row.

It's understandable, they've been playing close to 70 matches per season during the last 6 seasons, chaining all kinds of tournaments, always withe the "you must win" on their heads. Decades ago, players would never play this ammount of matches, and had not the same level of stress they have now. Players like Xavi, Pique, Busquets and Iniesta are dried, emotionally saturated and physically exhausted. And Messi is on the verge of ending like them if they can't solve his muscle problems.

Hey, I really thank them for all those years. But I live in the present, and those players should spend more time in the bench and space should be freed to new blood. Last 2 seasons showed they can't play a whole seasons, so the board should have had a Plan B a year ago.
 
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I think Barca will have a good season in the end. Suarez is, in terms of form, one of the best players in the world at the moment and they should (once the ban is over) have him in the prime of his career. I know Bravo had a howler the other day at Napoli but he's been a superb keeper for Chile in the last two world cups and I think him and Steegen are good solid keepers.

I do think they should have tried to sign a high quality center back (as has been the case for the last few years with Puyol getting too old to play often). Rakitic is a good signing and is possibly part of the jigsaw that will eventually replace Xavi, obviously he isn't as good as Xavi once was but he was a one-off. Neymar has also now had a full season of European football so will probably improve as he's more adjusted to the style of football. The main thing is Suarez though, he improves any team and works really well with other attacking players. For Uruguay he's linked up well with Cavani and Forlan and for Liverpool last year he was incredible as part of a front three with Sturridge and Sterling (also linked well with Coutinho at times) he has the potential to be even better with Neymar and Messi.

Bravo/(Steegen)
Alves--Pique--Mathieu--Alba
Song--Mascherano
Rakitic/(Iniesta)
Suarez--Messi--Neymar
 
drekkard said:
I know I'm only dreaming but the Barcelona I had in mind was more something like:

Ter Stegen

Boateng | Hummels | Vertongen | Alba

Rakitic | Mascherano

Reus | Messi | Neymar

Suarez

And let's forget the 4-3-3 that doesn't bring more than possession and favour a more direct football, which would greatly benefit the likes of Neymar, Suarez and Messi.
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That team would never work together. Messi as a number ten/Offensive midfielder is only a "normal" player, who cannot set the tempo of team and does not have the necessary vision to find the open man. Neymar as a LMF completely exposes your defence, plus offensively he's too distant from the area to make an impact with his short dribble and drop to the middle to unbalance the defence.
Both guys are strikers, not midfielders.

Plus Boateng is no RB, he's only a stop gap at that spot. There’s plenty better player for you guys to pursue.

4-3-3 is not a extreme possession style. It's been play like that for you guys, but there are many examples in which the system worked with a more direct approach. The problem is not the formation; it's the philosophy, and the mentality of some key players.
 
Messi has been playing a mix of "flase nine" and 10 for the last two seasons. He's been the best assister of the team from that position in the last 5 years, so he definitely has the vision and finds the open man. I prefer him to play near the area, and he could do that as well even if Suarez is upfront.

Regarding Neymar, in a 4-2-3-1 like I put there He would be free to start in the sideline but cutting inside, as the LB (Alba) can run the side up. This is exactly the position Iniesta played with Guardiola in his best years. Plus, about leaving the deffense exposed, this happened last year when he played as a LW and there was no one back to cover him. With 2 DMF like Mascherano and Rakitic you can do this and save your back much better.

Boateng as a RB is becuase they talk about Cuadrado there, or keeping Alves, and a formation with 2 offensive sidebacks definitely won't work. You need to have one of them more deffensive oriented, so the deffense line can turn into a 3 line men when one of the sidebacks go up.

Of course the 4-3-3 can be executed in many different styles, but I was talking in the "Barça" style of the last decade. It seems a sacrilege to change the formation, and that's why I think it would refresh things a lot if they tried different formations in order to favour different playing styles. With Iniesta and Xavi out of the equation there's no need to play short passing all the time and definitely no need to have 4 men to "organize" play.
 
The signing of Mathieu for that kind of money was baffling. I think Barça still needs a CB and perhaps this is just the man you need:
wenger_verm.jpg


Plus, Wenger really doesn't want to sell him to United. Verminator is a ball playing CB the way the Catalans like it. I say it's good business for both!
 
@drekkard - Sorry, but cannot agree with on Messi and Neymar playing in the midfield. Messi made tones of assist and plays a false 9 role that allows him to go deeper to get the ball. But he does that to free himself from defenders and to make combination plays to get in the best position to score. CR7 also have tones of assist, so Benzema, that does not make them have the vision to make a 30m pass, or to set the tempo of a match. He has the assists because he's "close to the action" and the opposition often mark him with 2 or more players and by doing so frees up some other teammate. That's an easy read. In the n.º 10 role, which he played before with Argentina (before Sabella), he's been very unsuccessful, looking a bit lost. Messi is better when the team works for him, instead of him working for the team (which is required for someone that plays that role).

Neymar's exposure of the defence is the fault of the previous coach. In the 4-3-3, the CMF is the primary helper to the LB, and the LW (or LSS in Barça's case) is only the secondary helper. However, last season Iniesta did very little in terms of defence (Xavi too for that matter), exposing both Alba and Neymar. If Neymar falls deeper on the pitch, his best atrributes are mitigated. His major attribute his insane acceleration with the ball, and his quick turns. In the midfield, that does not the same effect as it has on the last third of the pitch. He's not a particularly fast player (in terms of top speed), not it has great crossing abilities. Iniesta in Guardiola scheme worked because he's a true midfielder, he can hold the ball, knows how to occupy the space, etc. Neymar only knows how to go forward, which is normal since he's striker.

I agree that you should have a more defensive FB to compensate for the offensive one, opposite to him (like Alves/Abidal). But still they are better options for that role than Boateng, IMO.

I personally think that the 4-3-3 is the 2nd best system (after the 3-5-2 with actual wingbacks that can cover all the sides, which is quite difficult to have. In recent memory only Capello's Roma and Scolari's Brazil had them) for today’s football. Barça's problems are personnel related, not scheme wise. Rakitic can play the Xavi role, with more of a defensive mind, and maybe Iniesta can recoup his form. Plus Suárez is more effective coming from the sides than as lone striker.
 
gerd said:
If you really want a good Belgian CB, take Vertonghen.
Vertonghen is too good for Spurs...
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Yes, Vertonghen is the best choice and can also play as LB.

andy18cruz said:
@drekkard - Sorry, but cannot agree with on Messi and Neymar playing in the midfield. Messi made tones of assist and plays a false 9 role that allows him to go deeper to get the ball. But he does that to free himself from defenders and to make combination plays to get in the best position to score. CR7 also have tones of assist, so Benzema, that does not make them have the vision to make a 30m pass, or to set the tempo of a match. He has the assists because he's "close to the action" and the opposition often mark him with 2 or more players and by doing so frees up some other teammate. That's an easy read. In the n.º 10 role, which he played before with Argentina (before Sabella), he's been very unsuccessful, looking a bit lost. Messi is better when the team works for him, instead of him working for the team (which is required for someone that plays that role).

Neymar's exposure of the defence is the fault of the previous coach. In the 4-3-3, the CMF is the primary helper to the LB, and the LW (or LSS in Barça's case) is only the secondary helper. However, last season Iniesta did very little in terms of defence (Xavi too for that matter), exposing both Alba and Neymar. If Neymar falls deeper on the pitch, his best atrributes are mitigated. His major attribute his insane acceleration with the ball, and his quick turns. In the midfield, that does not the same effect as it has on the last third of the pitch. He's not a particularly fast player (in terms of top speed), not it has great crossing abilities. Iniesta in Guardiola scheme worked because he's a true midfielder, he can hold the ball, knows how to occupy the space, etc. Neymar only knows how to go forward, which is normal since he's striker.

I agree that you should have a more defensive FB to compensate for the offensive one, opposite to him (like Alves/Abidal). But still they are better options for that role than Boateng, IMO.

I personally think that the 4-3-3 is the 2nd best system (after the 3-5-2 with actual wingbacks that can cover all the sides, which is quite difficult to have. In recent memory only Capello's Roma and Scolari's Brazil had them) for today’s football. Barça's problems are personnel related, not scheme wise. Rakitic can play the Xavi role, with more of a defensive mind, and maybe Iniesta can recoup his form. Plus Suárez is more effective coming from the sides than as lone striker.
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You have some good points there but we'll have to agree on our disagreement, but I love this kind of footy debates, so let me explain more and extend the conversation.

To me Messi and Neymar would be attacking midfielders, not just midfielders. I put 2 DMFs to balance that and the sidebacks should be able to go up and end up as wingers (only one at a time, like in Guardiola's best era, leaving the other 3 defenders as 3 CBs). If a sideback looses the ball in the wing, there are 2 DMFs and 3 defenders left to share the deffensive burden. As you say (and it's a great insight I've shared here sometimes) Xavi and Iniesta were more detrimental to the team because they never covered the wings (or even the center for that matter) and left the deffense always exposed. I'm glad you saw that!

Messi is more than capable of playing as an AMF which is what he would do in a 4-2-3-1. Considering that sidebacks would go up the pitch, the formation can easily change to 4-3-3-1 or 4-3-1-3 (or whatever) during the match. Messi has already played loads of games in that position, what we call false nine is a forward who can go deep back to get the ball. The difference between this and an AMF with freedom to go up and finnish the play is minimal. By the way, Messi is more than capable of delivering long and short range assists. By the way, he is the best assister of the team, much better than Xavi and Iniesta. So yes, he is perfectly able to do so, in fact if you get his numbers and the kind of assists he makes he's just one of the top assisters in Europe.

About Neymar, in a 4-3-3 he will have the problem of playing in the sideline because the center of the forward play is usually covered by Messi alone and you need to widen the field. This has happened to other great players at Barcelona in the last decade (Henry, Villa, even Ibra) degrading their gameplay, and is one of the reasons why I would favour other formations that allow both Suarez and Neymar to cut inside and play near Messi or in front of him, just to favour their association play. Neymar has found its best moments of play when coming from the second line, being able to accelerate and face defenders. His dribbling skills are much better when he can face his opponent with speed and he can even shoot after a dribbling. If you put Neymar in the sideline, his chances of causing havok in the deffense are greatly diminished. He could move freely to the sideline if he wants, but he should be freed of the task of "widening he field" as a must, if you get me.
 
------------------Claudio Bravo-------------
-Alves-------Pique--------Vermaelen---------Alba
------------------Mascherano
-----Rakitic--------Messi----------Iniesta
-----------Luis suarez---Neymar Jr

---------------Ter Stegen
--Montoya----Bartra---Mathieu-----Adrian
----------------Busquets
--S.Roberto-----Rafinha-----Xavi
----------Pedro-------Deulofeu
 
So it really happened, the Verminator is yours.

vermaelen2_get.jpg


Good luck to him. Hope he stays injury free and shows what a great player he is.
 
A risky signing, considering hi history with injuries, but a great player for sure IF he can play. I prefered Vertonghen, but well, with Zubizarreta around, we can't expect to sign a good, healthy and young CB.
 
drekkard said:
A risky signing, considering hi history with injuries, but a great player for sure IF he can play. I prefered Vertonghen, but well, with Zubizarreta around, we can't expect to sign a good, healthy and young CB.
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I hope he proves everyone wrong, and his injuries are behind him. He scores more then Vertonghen and has much more CL experience too!
 
I'm surprised you'd want Boateing as RB, Drekkard, I'd prefer and expect Barcelona to utilize a proper RB at RB tbh. The defense is strengthened as well, which was needed, and there will always be complaints about who and such. I think their choices were risky but exciting.

This Barcelona team can surely make some damage but I don't know whether they'll be able to get Real Madrid.
 
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