Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
Great thinking! I've done some very quick tests and it seems to have an impact, let me check back in after some more testing.
- Thread starter
- #182
papinho81
Champions League
In addition to @manmachine edits on the defense_jokey file I have changed the the three type of Joke_MarkingDistance and I divided the Y values by two, except for the first ones [0] for which I changed Y=1.
The result is a much more efficient secondary press, teammates are actually running to provide help and they also go much closer to the ball carrier, no more invisible wall. Also players are now less afraid about physical contacts which results in more alive battle for the ball and might help to increase the fouls numbers.
Here is the project file with manmachine changes and the above mentioned changes:http://www.mediafire.com/file/m5jx8...ey_reaction_time_akaManmachine.fbproject/file
PS: I am not sharing the mod file as I didn't apply the last update.
The result is a much more efficient secondary press, teammates are actually running to provide help and they also go much closer to the ball carrier, no more invisible wall. Also players are now less afraid about physical contacts which results in more alive battle for the ball and might help to increase the fouls numbers.
Here is the project file with manmachine changes and the above mentioned changes:http://www.mediafire.com/file/m5jx8...ey_reaction_time_akaManmachine.fbproject/file
PS: I am not sharing the mod file as I didn't apply the last update.
Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
Thanks man. With all of these little changes there is a definite improvement to the game. The defensive line adjustment is a massive one in my opinion.
- Thread starter
- #184
papinho81
Champions League
I agree. I played with the perception mod, the offside mod, your anti cheat mod and the jokey one and it really improves the things.
The key to have more interesting games was also to play with another team than betis Seville with which I started a test ML. With their default tactics everything is even more static. I could have tweaked the tactic though. They use a target man as their only attacking player, simply awful.
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Here my little contribution...
The lower stats the better gameplay feelings. That because the women matches are realistic. Men stats are overrated and the game become unrealistic.
I guess all these stats/sliders will be allowed to edit ingame in FIFA 25...
I can't understand that we are still with the same sliders since FIFA 15 or before.
Try this Squads edited by me (edited over MPR5.0 Squads):
*There is a excel file to edit your own squads quickly.
https://mega.nz/file/tpoTlaQL#APmriwwBKFnSVgSnoaDADaxFsrlhKOMExWgwGXZrbN8
Balance=1 for everybody provide a realistic foults frequency.
*I play with MPR5.0-paulv2k4.realism-slowerpasses-gameplay061020-jokey-ballsat (manual settings with powerbar in 70)
@papinho81 May you update 1st Thread Post to compile all the gameplay mods and its descriptions? That would be nice in order not to miss any of them.
The lower stats the better gameplay feelings. That because the women matches are realistic. Men stats are overrated and the game become unrealistic.
I guess all these stats/sliders will be allowed to edit ingame in FIFA 25...
I can't understand that we are still with the same sliders since FIFA 15 or before.Try this Squads edited by me (edited over MPR5.0 Squads):
*There is a excel file to edit your own squads quickly.
https://mega.nz/file/tpoTlaQL#APmriwwBKFnSVgSnoaDADaxFsrlhKOMExWgwGXZrbN8
Balance=1 for everybody provide a realistic foults frequency.
*I play with MPR5.0-paulv2k4.realism-slowerpasses-gameplay061020-jokey-ballsat (manual settings with powerbar in 70)
@papinho81 May you update 1st Thread Post to compile all the gameplay mods and its descriptions? That would be nice in order not to miss any of them.
Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
I find the same thing with certain formations in FIFA. Sometimes the striker seems very isolated, and it’s difficult to get players close to him to combine with. I change up tactic/instructions and that helps a little. I find any formations with 2 strikers makes it much better to attack as they can combine with each other. I try changing around some player positions often too, and have found playing my CAM as a striker behind the main striker also helps with some combination play, but I wish the attacking movement was a little better in the game. It’s very difficult to think of a way with the mods to get better attacking movement, but keep the defensive players/midfielders to cover at the same time...
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- Staff
- #187
Please could I get an fbmod version of this?
Does it include any previous tweaks? You released a file before this containing driven pass and ball physics tweaks, does this include those?
Thank you!
- Thread starter
- #188
papinho81
Champions League
If you have frosty editor, load the project, then click save, export as a mod, done!
- Staff
- #189
I know this, Pap - the file provided is a pre-built mod, not the project.
I have an older version of FIFA 20 now - a few weeks old, anyway, so I get the "mod not created with this version" warning.
They're updating FIFA 20 so often now (and changing nothing that benefits the gameplay) that I just turn off my internet adapter and play offline to avoid having to update all my mods...
- Thread starter
- #190
papinho81
Champions League
Ah sorry, I thought it was a project file. Project files are cross build compatible.I know this, Pap - the file provided is a pre-built mod.
manmachine
Premier League
- 22 June 2008
By the way I haven't updated to the latest patch as well. Does that mean that if I save an fbproject/fbmod file it won't work with an updated game?
- Thread starter
- #192
papinho81
Champions League
Project will work
- Staff
- #193
An fbproject will work, an fbmod won't.
...well, it will work in all likelihood, but you'll get a warning about it being for a different version, and sometimes EA may change something that means the mod no longer works. At which point it needs rebuilding using the fbproject.
- Thread starter
- #194
- Thread starter
- #195
papinho81
Champions League
Same here! I took the la liga bug update and except if something extraordinary happens (very unlikely) I will not take any other update. EA has a record for destroying their game with the last couple of updates. With that one it is hard to do worst though. But has an Italian friend of mine used to say, when you touch the bottom, you can still dig further
Another reason for me not updating is the cheat engine table we have started to assemble with @manmachine . I am a bit concern they might not work with the newer version.
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manmachine
Premier League
- 22 June 2008
Thanks!
So here's something about passing today:
PASS_QualityScalarVSAng (in kickpass_passing_runtime) is pretty simple. The X-axis is the pass angle from 0 to 180 degrees, and the Y-axis is the "pass quality". At first I didn't think it had an obvious effect but it does. It affects the pass speed only and the default values are.... well, very generous to the fut kiddies. The pass quality ranges from 1 (0 degrees) to 0.8 (for 180 degree passes), I like it scaled from 1 to 0. Don't be afraid to go overboard, it's just a slower pass the more difficult the angle and it feels nice!
Edit: You can even go below zero (negative) if you haven't slowed down passing in any other way. I've reduced pass speed by 20% elsewhere, and I still like it all the way down to zero. Not a game changer by itself, but a nice change you can make. Forces you to turn to the direction you want to pass first rather than spamming first touch passes all over the place.
So here's something about passing today:
PASS_QualityScalarVSAng (in kickpass_passing_runtime) is pretty simple. The X-axis is the pass angle from 0 to 180 degrees, and the Y-axis is the "pass quality". At first I didn't think it had an obvious effect but it does. It affects the pass speed only and the default values are.... well, very generous to the fut kiddies. The pass quality ranges from 1 (0 degrees) to 0.8 (for 180 degree passes), I like it scaled from 1 to 0. Don't be afraid to go overboard, it's just a slower pass the more difficult the angle and it feels nice!
Edit: You can even go below zero (negative) if you haven't slowed down passing in any other way. I've reduced pass speed by 20% elsewhere, and I still like it all the way down to zero. Not a game changer by itself, but a nice change you can make. Forces you to turn to the direction you want to pass first rather than spamming first touch passes all over the place.
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Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
I just went to upload the file for you and I noticed some of the values were missing. I was doing so many adjustments at the time I didn't save the updated project file with the same particular combination! I've gone through and updated, the only values where I couldn't quite remember the adjustments were some relating to the field friction. I'm pretty sure I only upped them by 0.2 which is what I've done here (could be a little off with that though).
Oh and yes driven pass speed reduction is part of this also.
https://mega.nz/file/lI9XHBCa#F9CPQdcZvOvwgJrhooCPkfggggJUIt0Di3kYm5ndZAk
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This ball physics is really nice. The ball rolls like in real professional match with short and wet turf.
Here some really interesting matches in full manual with Paulv2k4 4 alpha 7 + Evo-web mods (Perception-Jockey-Drivenpass speed 20) + Custom Squads + POSSESION_TOUCH=2
I would need more foults in midfield. I'll keep testing...
Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
I’m working on something for fouls. I had decent success today, In a 20 min match I had around 14 fouls which is more than I’ve ever had. I need to keep testing as I changed a lot of values to get it and it’s not quite there yet. Need to narrow down the ones which have the most impact.
I know quite a few of us have been playing pes 2014 (thanks to @Chris Davies) and seeing just how much of a sim it is in lots of ways really makes me wish we could bring over some aspects of it into this game. I actually think fifa does a decent job at compressing the field (with sliders) but after seeing just how tight things are in pes 2014 and how it makes you think your way to creating chances makes me realise there’s a way to go still!
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- Thread starter
- #200
papinho81
Champions League
Would you mind sharing a project file for these, so I can add it to the mod list I am preparing?
- Thread starter
- #201
papinho81
Champions League
Post n°2 have now the list of all the gameplay files released by the lab members to date.
I hope we will have many more impcatfull mods to come! (to turn that FUT shit into something ressembling a bit more a real football game)
Note: to be eligible, Frosty edits must be released as project file for cross title version compatibility reasons.
Feel free to also add a fbmod versions if you want to.
I hope we will have many more impcatfull mods to come! (to turn that FUT shit into something ressembling a bit more a real football game)
Note: to be eligible, Frosty edits must be released as project file for cross title version compatibility reasons.
Feel free to also add a fbmod versions if you want to.
Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
Guys, if you're interested give these 2 mods a go together. One is updated ball physics and the other is for fouls. They're by no means perfect, most probably not to everyone's taste and very much still a work in progress but I'm having some great games with them where there are more fouls, often lower pass completion % and much more unpredictability in the overall gameplay.
Unpredictability and freedom is my aim right now as I feel like FIFA can be a little too rigid sometimes in the ways you can attack and there's predictable outcomes in certain situations. With these two mods I've been seeing more organic moments all over the pitch. There seems to be a few trade-offs to achieve this however. For example, shot power can be OP at times, but the benefit is more unpredictability in shooting (which is a big one for me, I can't stand knowing when the keeper will make the same saves), plus the overall weight of the ball increases heading possibilities which adds a new element. I think the speed in general is higher (not overly so IMO) but I can handle a bit of extra speed if the game feels a little more alive. There might be others and they still need work but figured I'd share as it might help the overall project.
In terms of fouls, I've adjusted quite a few variables and I'm definitely seeing more fouls, more dives, more penalties, but I wouldn't say it's perfect.
I'm playing combined with OS V3 sliders, the no script adjustment, the defensive line adjustment and the jockey adjustment so no idea how it plays on default!
Note: I've had best results with both of these used together
Ball 2.0 (with reduced driven pass speed):
Mod - https://mega.nz/file/QdsxzDhZ#rUZTxfF4Hdjscy9g6whCeVquceuo_Io83dAKLsOYg9g
Project- https://mega.nz/file/5I8zXDha#j1eT0pkqk4BYpoZvbDPdheTSFS7h_NtxD1hhFojDP44
Fouls attempt:
Mod - https://mega.nz/file/0U9zGLxS#Uhu5Sq7ulnCZbxPK6vXM7_7M68gi6qPQcEDmmQlBaGE
Project- https://mega.nz/file/hV0XjZ4Y#FX1N5yt4MRO5NsOExEc54o8UbPUesLyfw8E0aJxxTgc
Unpredictability and freedom is my aim right now as I feel like FIFA can be a little too rigid sometimes in the ways you can attack and there's predictable outcomes in certain situations. With these two mods I've been seeing more organic moments all over the pitch. There seems to be a few trade-offs to achieve this however. For example, shot power can be OP at times, but the benefit is more unpredictability in shooting (which is a big one for me, I can't stand knowing when the keeper will make the same saves), plus the overall weight of the ball increases heading possibilities which adds a new element. I think the speed in general is higher (not overly so IMO) but I can handle a bit of extra speed if the game feels a little more alive. There might be others and they still need work but figured I'd share as it might help the overall project.
In terms of fouls, I've adjusted quite a few variables and I'm definitely seeing more fouls, more dives, more penalties, but I wouldn't say it's perfect.
I'm playing combined with OS V3 sliders, the no script adjustment, the defensive line adjustment and the jockey adjustment so no idea how it plays on default!
Note: I've had best results with both of these used together
Ball 2.0 (with reduced driven pass speed):
Mod - https://mega.nz/file/QdsxzDhZ#rUZTxfF4Hdjscy9g6whCeVquceuo_Io83dAKLsOYg9g
Project- https://mega.nz/file/5I8zXDha#j1eT0pkqk4BYpoZvbDPdheTSFS7h_NtxD1hhFojDP44
Fouls attempt:
Mod - https://mega.nz/file/0U9zGLxS#Uhu5Sq7ulnCZbxPK6vXM7_7M68gi6qPQcEDmmQlBaGE
Project- https://mega.nz/file/hV0XjZ4Y#FX1N5yt4MRO5NsOExEc54o8UbPUesLyfw8E0aJxxTgc
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- Staff
- #203
I will definitely try these out - with @papinho81's files (particularly the defensive line work), I've found there to be a nice balance between being pressed and defenders sitting off (I've actually disabled the "increased pressure" mod that ticks the tickbox, in order for that pressure to only be there in certain matches).
But my biggest issues include the complete lack of fouls, so I'm interested to try this. (Unfortunately one of my other major issues is the speed of the game - which is largely because of the insane perfect first-time power-passes the AI does, with no backlift needed to ping the ball at 200mph, I HATE that.)
I think the lack of fouls in general is just because it's so difficult to actually get near an opposition player (for you or the AI). You've got the invisible barrier to get through, which is impossible without letting go of "press" and aiming your player "manually" without any heat-seeking assistance... Which in theory sounds better, but the attacking player has such a greater, faster range of movement that you just end up running towards the empty space where the attacker USED to be, as he runs off into the box.
- Thread starter
- #204
papinho81
Champions League
I am also sick about first time passes at impossible angles. There is two curves variables in the kick_pass file that have a first time name. They are on my to test list.
Second thing that make me sick, and it occupies the top spot on my sick list, is the cdm/cm from the opposite side of the ball (often only a few meters from the action though) standing and only caring about the man he is supposed to mark instead of helping teammates in troubles in or at the entry of the box. WAKE F***ING UP!
Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
Great points @Chris Davies and @papinho81 . You are spot on about the speed and the passing angles, I'd prefer it was a much slower overall game, I'm hoping we can get there somehow.
An issue I've found with trying to get some more freedom of the ball is that one of the key values which provides this is reducing Field_GlobalSlideFrictionMult . This unfortunately seems to add a little bit of speed to the gameplay, but as soon as I add more to this value there's less unpredictable moments in terms of fouls/collisions and passing.
An issue I've found with trying to get some more freedom of the ball is that one of the key values which provides this is reducing Field_GlobalSlideFrictionMult . This unfortunately seems to add a little bit of speed to the gameplay, but as soon as I add more to this value there's less unpredictable moments in terms of fouls/collisions and passing.
tufkar84
Premier League
- 16 June 2020
My 2 cents and a few points here:
-Default Fifa gameplay is fast, but balanced. It is also FUT oriented, so responsiveness must be instantaneous to balance server/connection delays and the rage of teenagers swiping their parents' credit cards...
Both speed and responsiveness can already be tweaked almost at will, in almost all its aspects, via SLIDERS. Which I don't see mentioned enough here.
Speed can be tweaked via Player Speed, Pass Speed, Shot Speed (I like 1, 35 and 45).
Responsiveness, it's a bit more complicated. The only way I have found to slow it down is via Ball Control and Acceleration. (I like 99 and 45)
Indirectly related to speed are other sliders: Run Frequency (I like it at 1) causes non-ball handling players to make runs all the time, which gives variety but also creates hecticness and a fast-and-furious feel. And then the lines: height, length, width. I like 35, 65 and 40. Having longer, deeper teams (which is what PES does to the limit of decency) has the effect to slow the general gameplay down, because players are better spaced, ping-pong passes are impossible and constant counter-attacks are nerfed.
Editing these sliders can make the game as slow and as spaced as anybody prefers. And the discovery that you can create SUPER-sliders by editing the min-max values for sliders makes them even more powerful. (I am testing super-slowing down speed and super-raising trap error, which reduces ball control, with good results so far).
I think a great set of sliders is a wonderful starting point, and further things can be edited ON TOP of those. Playing gameplay mods with vanilla sliders or a decent set of sliders can be a totally different experience. If you can make mods to make decent sliders as default values, is a different story...
Now, there are a few things that can't be touched via sliders. Ball physics. Fouls. Aggressiveness. And I want to thank you for doing a great job with the tests so far. They do have a strong impact on gameplay already. You guys are a blessing in this, and definitely on the right way.
-The value POSSESSION_TOUCH=2 to be added in the locale.ini has great effect on avoid the CPU players making 3 touches in a second. And it's VITAL to realism to me.
-Fouls still need some work. I haven't had much success with the mods available. But I have found out that if you play a derby, fouls go up and it's cool! So it would be great to find a way to make all matches play like it's derbies. But I don't know how to implement this... Editing stuff like Game Importance does not have much effect on it, from what I've seen. It would be cool to test the same mod in a derby and in a non-derby game to see the difference.
-My biggest issue maybe is pass and cross animations. Since they are intended to be FUT-oriented, press-ball leaves, most animations are "rushed". I'd love to slow them down, but found no way of doing this. But I have noticed that shots animations are OK and pass animations are sometimes OK, maybe when there are no opponents around.
-One final note is: remember that you can always counter-balance mods with sliders. If you say the game becomes too fast, you can always lower player speed and pass speed down. Your shots are too powerful? You can lower shot speed down. Ball is too hectic? You can slow pass speed and shot speed.
Thanks for your efforts, guys!
-Default Fifa gameplay is fast, but balanced. It is also FUT oriented, so responsiveness must be instantaneous to balance server/connection delays and the rage of teenagers swiping their parents' credit cards...
Both speed and responsiveness can already be tweaked almost at will, in almost all its aspects, via SLIDERS. Which I don't see mentioned enough here.
Speed can be tweaked via Player Speed, Pass Speed, Shot Speed (I like 1, 35 and 45).
Responsiveness, it's a bit more complicated. The only way I have found to slow it down is via Ball Control and Acceleration. (I like 99 and 45)
Indirectly related to speed are other sliders: Run Frequency (I like it at 1) causes non-ball handling players to make runs all the time, which gives variety but also creates hecticness and a fast-and-furious feel. And then the lines: height, length, width. I like 35, 65 and 40. Having longer, deeper teams (which is what PES does to the limit of decency) has the effect to slow the general gameplay down, because players are better spaced, ping-pong passes are impossible and constant counter-attacks are nerfed.
Editing these sliders can make the game as slow and as spaced as anybody prefers. And the discovery that you can create SUPER-sliders by editing the min-max values for sliders makes them even more powerful. (I am testing super-slowing down speed and super-raising trap error, which reduces ball control, with good results so far).
I think a great set of sliders is a wonderful starting point, and further things can be edited ON TOP of those. Playing gameplay mods with vanilla sliders or a decent set of sliders can be a totally different experience. If you can make mods to make decent sliders as default values, is a different story...
Now, there are a few things that can't be touched via sliders. Ball physics. Fouls. Aggressiveness. And I want to thank you for doing a great job with the tests so far. They do have a strong impact on gameplay already. You guys are a blessing in this, and definitely on the right way.
-The value POSSESSION_TOUCH=2 to be added in the locale.ini has great effect on avoid the CPU players making 3 touches in a second. And it's VITAL to realism to me.
-Fouls still need some work. I haven't had much success with the mods available. But I have found out that if you play a derby, fouls go up and it's cool! So it would be great to find a way to make all matches play like it's derbies. But I don't know how to implement this... Editing stuff like Game Importance does not have much effect on it, from what I've seen. It would be cool to test the same mod in a derby and in a non-derby game to see the difference.
-My biggest issue maybe is pass and cross animations. Since they are intended to be FUT-oriented, press-ball leaves, most animations are "rushed". I'd love to slow them down, but found no way of doing this. But I have noticed that shots animations are OK and pass animations are sometimes OK, maybe when there are no opponents around.
-One final note is: remember that you can always counter-balance mods with sliders. If you say the game becomes too fast, you can always lower player speed and pass speed down. Your shots are too powerful? You can lower shot speed down. Ball is too hectic? You can slow pass speed and shot speed.
Thanks for your efforts, guys!
Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
Good points man. I agree with you about the sliders creating a great starting point. I’ll give some of your recommendations a go. Fouls wise we’re definitely not there yet!
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Anth James
International
- 22 September 2017
Have you guys experimented much with the locale.ini gameplay editing? Is it as impactful as the frosty editor? I saw on the FIFA 16 thread from ages ago talking about FORCE_BACK, FORCE_FRONT etc helping the AI to play in different areas and then I saw Paulv2k using the same lines in his FIFA 20 mod and I wonder if that could help us have the AI play a bit of a slower game instead of forward, forward, forward.
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tufkar84
Premier League
- 16 June 2020
Absolutely. The Possession_touch line mentioned above by 6ons1 is applied in the locale.ini
It is amazing how many things you can do there: from changing the goal net size and shape, to force all matches to show bright colors (regionalization filters, some countries have yellowish filters)
Unfortunately I'm not aware of any line that affects the build up. I mean, there are a few lines which probably help, but don't know to what extent. They are listed as "AI objectives", I think
manmachine
Premier League
- 22 June 2008
The build-up is there, sort of. If you can get some bodies in the midfield, properly positioned blocking a couple of passing lanes the cpu will pass sideways and backwards. The AI is smart in fifa, in the sense that if you can change some variables it will alter its decision making in response. Not because it's thinking like a human would but because it has another advantage: The cpu knows the outcome of any action. It won't think "hey let's try this pass/shot and hope for the best/see what happens", it already knows the outcome so most of the time it will choose to not lose the ball. If that means not going forward for a moment then that's great, you've got some buildup/possession gameplay (obviously it will make random mistakes depending on the difficulty level, otherwise the game would be unplayable).
Which is why proper positioning/tactics are soooooo damn important and perhaps my #1 focus/gripe. Also I'm not using any kind of locale.ini variables or an edited db or anything else for a simple reason: I'm only interested in learning what all these gameplay files do and how the game is designed. I don't expect I'll start a CM in fifa 20 anytime soon. I didn't even buy the game, 21 will be out soon and If I just wanted to play I would do so in a game I actually already enjoy (like 16 or 14). I have no doubt that you can make passing/shooting feel really great and even improve 1v1 defending a lot. Given enough time. It's like sliders but there are hundreds of variables you can tweak/test. But the fundamental problem will be making teams keep a decent shape and convincing the 10 "inactive" players to actually participate rather than just stand there waiting for you to switch to them.
So for getting some proper midfield/build-up there are 3 things at play. One is passing and can be fixed. Slower passes and increased error rates will mean that both you and the cpu will have to make some safer choices and be a bit more patient going forward. No problems there. But then we get to the other two:
Pressing-defensive mentalities/tactics/player instructions. Unfortunately this seems like a separate thing that I see no way of tweaking yet. For starters, it's how pressing is programmed: I don't mind you running like Usain Bolt after my guy with the ball. As long as you're not blocking/marking a passing option I'm one pass away from your final third. Or one dribble + a sprint. Fifa has this completely wrong. Pressing is actually creating space for me so that I don't have to do it. First block my options going forward THEN go after the guy with the ball.
Then you have all the teams with a front 3 (a striker + 2 wingers) hanging around for tea with my back 4 (I suppose this is down to player instructions?), so now you've got an extra empty pitch somewhere in the middle with enough empty space for a quick counter or for planting some crops.
And then we get to teams with decent enough default tactics/formation and you can sort of have a good game playing them... as long as you're not hit with the last issue: Just keep possession of the ball for a while not letting the cpu have it. Not sure for how much, maybe 2 or 3 in-game minutes if you're playing with 10 minute halves. There's an internal timer and when hit, the cpu will abandon its shape/formation. You will suddenly see them rush to man mark your defenders. Even if you're close to their final 3rd and they're standing there blocking you, they will just leave and sprint to man mark your defenders. So that you don't pass backwards I guess. Absolute madness. You might think that it shouldn't happen if you play normally, but it will. 2-3 ingame minutes is not too much if you're not in a hurry when playing.
TL;DR: To have a midfield and buildup you need some players occupying the right space, not a magical hidden game option. Unless that magical hidden game option is literally something like "Prioritise_blocking_passing_lanes_over_marking_the_GK". Anyway I was kinda stuck with this so I'm no longer testing stuff (I might get back to it) unless someone discovers that we can edit the new tactical system, some of its options are simply too dumb and impactful on gameplay.
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