English Premier League thread

YoungGun_UK said:
Everyone dives these days CB though, So yeh I agree giving these players bans/suspension is the right thing to do but what about EVERY player that dives? Do we suddenly start banning everyone?
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Not ban, I just think it needs to be stamped out and there needs to be a deterrent, otherwise there is nothing to stop it. You dive, if you get caught it's a yellow card, but you'll do it again next week, and you might get a penalty. I think that's totally wrong. If you see video evidence of a player going over without contact being made (and he's rolling around or appealing for a foul), get him fined, followed by a one match ban, followed by a three match ban etc... That would stamp it out.

YoungGun_UK said:
Personally I honestly think now its part of the game and is accepted as that.
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If it becomes part of the game, I will stop watching football, and I mean that. It is cheating, there is no sportsmanship about it. If it becomes accepted by FIFA and by the FA then all morality will have been drained from the sport and I won't be interested in it any longer.

Milanista said:
Its the lack of balance. Too many uber rich clubs are getting stronger and stronger, making them almost an elite.
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I completely agree with you. As I said, "the rich get richer and the poor get poorer". No money trickles down from the Premier League and clubs are going into administration all the time, so much so that there are some I didn't even realise had (Halifax for example, and they've been going for years and years).

I remember a time when Tranmere had an Italian player... TRANMERE! We had Borgetti, and we had some great Irish players, and we even had ex-Liverpool greats like John Aldridge. That time has gone, all we are now are YTS lads and shit 30+ year olds who "add experience" (i.e. nobody else will have them).

And Abhishek, I agree with you entirely as well. The bottom team in the Championship beat the top team last season (or the season before), and the manager said afterwards, "the Premier League is rubbish, you know the result before a game has started; would Derby ever stand a chance against Manchester United?"
 
Well to be fair, it seems at the beginning of the season things are looking a litle bit more balanced (look at Man Utd) and a team like Spurs (sadly because they are my favourite English team) cannot "buy" a good competition start.

But all in all the differenct between the Premiership and the rest is an abyss...same goes for English clubs compared with clubs of litle competitions... I read in the last Four-Four-Two that the Big Firm's budget in Scotland is less than Fulham's...Rangers and Cletic are huuuuge clubs...that is not right.
I you go a step further, then you see that Celtic's budget is far bigger than "our" biggest club Anderlecht...compare Anderlecht to Fulham...i know that Anderlecht has never been in the same league as Real Madrid, Barcelona, AC Milan, Liverpool and Man Utd...but there was a time when Anderlecht could beat all those clubs...now they don't have a chance...that is bad for football.
Speaking about the Premiership again, it would be a very good point if promoted clubs could compete for the title...last year the gap with Liverpool was even enormous.
You this on Evo-web too: there are hardly any fans of other clubs than the big four in England.
I have an 8 year old daughter and 5 year old son, both are football mad (and are playing football in local clubs). Their favourite clubs: Chelsea and Barcelona....i used to support Belgian clubs...when i was in France i watched the match for the bronze medal at the Olympics: Belgian-Brazil...my daughter supported Brazil...
 
I agree with you Gerd, my nephew lives down the road from Tranmere and he supports Everton, who are an hour away in the car. He only supports them because A) they're in the Premier League, and B) everyone else supports Liverpool; and of course, when you're young, the last thing you want to be is "like everybody else"...
 
Did something special happened yesterday in the match against Everton Prof ???
I've seen Stoke's other matches and yes Delap's throw-ins are a big weapon for Stoke...i kind of like that to...
Which of the 3 promoted teams has the biggest chance to stay up ???
Before the season i would have said WBA but now it seems that they are the team most in danger. In Four-Four-Two new season special all the consulted pundits tought Stoke City were the team that would certainly be relegated (every one of them put them 20th) and after having seen them, i think they have the best chance to stay up...any thoughts ????

PS: Was Fellaini any good in his first match ???
 
Fellaini wasn't very good, from what i saw of him.

Delap took loads of throw-ins. Anything in the Everton half, he basically chucked at the goal, lol. One skimmed off Jagielka's head, ever so slightly, right infront of Howard and it went in. It really looked as if Delap just through it straight in. His throws are as good as corners to Stoke.
 
Chris Bauer said:
I agree with you Gerd, my nephew lives down the road from Tranmere and he supports Everton, who are an hour away in the car. He only supports them because A) they're in the Premier League, and B) everyone else supports Liverpool; and of course, when you're young, the last thing you want to be is "like everybody else"...
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actually I find most young people do want to be like everyone else. Being different leads to ridicule ;)

I suppose we all have a rebellious stage though :D
 
I saw that on MOTD Sabac Red...
I think Guthrie should be banned for as long as his victim is out and on top of that get another ban of a couple of weeks.
On top of that clubs should get punished for this kind of behaviour. Give the clubs a certain number of "points" at the beginning of the season (for example 38 matches diveded by 4, let's say 10). For every dangerous tackle they point is deducted and when they have negative points (obviously after 11 points are deducted), they loose points in the Premiership ranking (i hope you get what i mean). For example Somewehere United has 36 points and is 4th in the division, from the 11th dangerous tackle on points get deducted (35 points after the deduction).
If you do that similar things should be done against diving and all other sorts of simulating.
There are 37 camera's around the pitch, use the images...and lest a "jury" of former professional football players and referees decide...
 
Yeah was a terrible tackle, Guthrie just lost his rag, it was near the end of the match they were losing and he was an idiot definitely deserves an extended ban to go with the red card.

No suprise that Terry's red card has been overturned. Ridiculous really, he made no intention to go for the ball and used his arms and legs to block the other player from getting through, it shouldnt matter that there was a covering defender. The FA's a joke.
 
I don't see what is ridiculous about it - he obviously didn't "use excessive force or brutality", it had nothing to do with covering defenders.

Every report I read on Sunday said it was a ridiculous red card so it looks like the right thing has been done.
 
Fair enough, it wasn't the worst tackle anyone has ever seen but it was a deliberate attempt to stop Jo getting through on goal using means that are against the rules. The reason I mentioned the covering defender was because that's what Lampard and everyone else has been using as the defence for reversing the decision. If there was cover then why did Terry feel the need to wrap himself around Jo and take his legs out? Tackles like that shouldn't happen, it's cheating at the end of the day.

Just because some clueless journalists say it was a ridiculous red card, that doesn't make it true. 9 times out of 10 they've got an ulterior motive when writing anyway. I do think the 3 game ban he was given would have been excessive, 1 game would've been fine, but if the referee saw fit to make that decision at the time then why should it be reversed when there's plenty of times where decision are made on incidents that are 100% incorrect and nothing can/will be done about it afterwards? I just think it's really fucking stupid.
 
It was foul play, deserved a red card and a ban.

Like isn't there strict punishment in Rugby for
tripping over a player?

The English media loves Terry englands heart of oak...puff
chest...etc I think he's a cunt but that's just my personal
opinion.

No one said fuck all about Aliadere(sp?) getting sent off
for wiping Mascherano's face last season, even getting an
extended ban for appealing.

Not to mention the fiasco over Mascherano's red/ban last season
against manure.

The FA are inconsistent grey haired men in suit twonks.
 
Yeah that's exactly it mate, it looks bad to have the England captain banned for 3 games for a rugby tackle so while there's a bit of doubt around the decision and people saying it was wrong it's very easy to have it overturned.
 
For as much as i know the rules (which is not much), i think it's logic that the red card has been overturned.
On the other hand if a player does not make the least attempt to play the ball, regardless if he's not the last defender or how far he is from goal (both factors that were held in account by the pundits), he should have a red card in my opinion (but who am i).
I also agree with the Aliadière example...i saw that red card and it was a much more ridiculous one than Terry's...
I also think Vidic should have had a straight red and this should have been taken in account for his ban (which i'm sure wasn't). To me Vidic saturday got a red and a yellow card (no matter if he's a Man Utd, Chelsea or Spurs player).

PS: yesterday i listened to the Guardian' football podcast and one of the pundits claimed that Chelsea will be weakened by the fact that Terry is not banned against Man Utd...he claims that Chelsea at least have two better CB's...and that England has enough good CB and don't need Terry at all...clearly not a fan that one...
 
Guthrie should have been banned for more than the default 3 games, he had two bites at Fagan and clearly knew what he was doing.
 
gerd said:
For as much as i know the rules (which is not much), i think it's logic that the red card has been overturned.
On the other hand if a player does not make the least attempt to play the ball, regardless if he's not the last defender or how far he is from goal (both factors that were held in account by the pundits), he should have a red card in my opinion (but who am i).
I also agree with the Aliadière example...i saw that red card and it was a much more ridiculous one than Terry's...
I also think Vidic should have had a straight red and this should have been taken in account for his ban (which i'm sure wasn't). To me Vidic saturday got a red and a yellow card (no matter if he's a Man Utd, Chelsea or Spurs player).

PS: yesterday i listened to the Guardian' football podcast and one of the pundits claimed that Chelsea will be weakened by the fact that Terry is not banned against Man Utd...he claims that Chelsea at least have two better CB's...and that England has enough good CB and don't need Terry at all...clearly not a fan that one...
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yep gerd you dont know the rules that well :) i think its rule 12 and if a player LUNGES at another player(juat like patricia veira in the charity shield at ruud) they get a red. terry lunged at jo, that was obious to anyone who watched it, and it was both his feet and arms. So its fucking insane that is was overturnend. i think it is a shame that he gets off on that.
 
gerd said:
PS: yesterday i listened to the Guardian' football podcast and one of the pundits claimed that Chelsea will be weakened by the fact that Terry is not banned against Man Utd...he claims that Chelsea at least have two better CB's...and that England has enough good CB and don't need Terry at all...clearly not a fan that one...
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I enjoy that podcast too, gerd.

I tend to agree with him. Terry, in my eyes is not the player he was, about 3 years or so ago. Carvalho is head and shoulders above him imo. If he weren't captain, i could see Alex taking his place. That said, Terry does have some great games where he is outstanding in defence, but he is not the best centre back in the Premier League.

As for the sending off. It was a yellow card. We see those types of incidents every week. It's certainly wasn't a red. The only people annoyed by this are the people with a severe hatred for the guy.

I too was surprised it was overturned, however, for the same reason as this paragraph, from the above article.

"As for the appeal itself, I'll admit to being surprised that this was overturned, mainly because there were so many ludicrous sendings off last season which were not thrown out (in some cases had games added to the suspension for 'frivolity') that I felt sure that the first high-profile incident this season would see the FA supporting their referee. "
 
Well Terry Butcher Friend and Gomito...i'm not gonna discuss with the both you about the rules, i don't know them and never have pretended to know them.
I think it's good that IF according to the rules Terry foul was not one that deserved a sending off, then it's good that that was overruled. No discussion.

But two things.

If that is in the rules, then the rules are wrong. Terry never had the intention to play the ball. It was cynical and against the very purpose of football (being attractive, other will say "winning", but i don't agree). And this isn't about Terry and Chelsea, i even want Chelsea to win against Man Utd...

Second. I hope that an appeal of Stoke City in a similar case will also be overruled...that would be great (but i have my doubts).

Will this affects the championship ???? No. In the end the best team always wins in a league (not in a cup match, see Arbeloa's foul on Niang yesterday, a blatant penalty...).
 
Prof, i have no severe hatred for Terry, still i think the rules are wrong in this instance. But if according to the rules he should not have been sent off, then it's a good thing that Chelsea's appeal was sustained. No doubt about that.

Oh and Guthrie got a very light sentence, i agree with that.

And then i have another question, perhaps the most difficult of all...the person who can answer that question maybe can practise rocket science...

What's wrong with Spurs ????

They have a good manager (who has a poorer record than Jol).
IMHO they bought spelendid players with: Modric, Corluka, Bentley and Pavelyuchenko. And still they are last, another horror begin...it happens year after year. WHY ????

Any thougths.

A desperate "fan" (i'm not a real fan...but you know what i mean...).
 
Professor Nutmeg said:
I enjoy that podcast too, gerd.

I tend to agree with him. Terry, in my eyes is not the player he was, about 3 years or so ago. Carvalho is head and shoulders above him imo. If he weren't captain, i could see Alex taking his place. That said, Terry does have some great games where he is outstanding in defence, but he is not the best centre back in the Premier League.

As for the sending off. It was a yellow card. We see those types of incidents every week. It's certainly wasn't a red. The only people annoyed by this are the people with a severe hatred for the guy.

I too was surprised it was overturned, however, for the same reason as this paragraph, from the above article.

"As for the appeal itself, I'll admit to being surprised that this was overturned, mainly because there were so many ludicrous sendings off last season which were not thrown out (in some cases had games added to the suspension for 'frivolity') that I felt sure that the first high-profile incident this season would see the FA supporting their referee. "
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i dont hate the guy, i just think the rules should be followed and this is so ironic. there is this whole RESPECT thing going on with the refs, but the FA just DISRESPECTED the ref who did that game!!! hahahha oh the irony :)
 
gerd said:
What's wrong with Spurs ????

They have a good manager (who has a poorer record than Jol).
IMHO they bought spelendid players with: Modric, Corluka, Bentley and Pavelyuchenko. And still they are last, another horror begin...it happens year after year. WHY ????

Any thougths.
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I was discussing this with a Spurs fan at work recently. I think it's partly a mental thing.

Spurs have spent a bundle in recent years on players. With it, their hopes and expectations are raised more and more and there's pressure to perform. Chopping and changing players doesn't help continuity either.

Logic might dictate that Spurs should do well, but it's doesn't appear to be the case. Look at the England national team as an example. There is a big difference between a team on paper and a team on grass. Most teams focus around one or two important players, who make the rest of the team tick. I don't really get that from Spurs.

Alternatively, do Spurs simply just believe themselves to be better than they are? Because that is always a big mistake. Form and results dictate how good you are, not expectancy levels.

As a comparison, look at Everton recently. Small, tight squad, with few players coming and going. No Tottenham or Newcastle-like expectation, yet they have fared pretty well recently.
 
gerd said:
What's wrong with Spurs ????
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we can't expect a team wich got 7 new potential starters in the summer to start playing (even just) decent football any time soon. it would be impossible, no matter how good those players are (and no matter how good the coach is).
juande ramos will need time to build up a proper gaming system, and the players will need some time to get to know each others, and to learn ramos system (once he will have one).

the comparison with everton is pretty good.
everton has a "project", a well defined dna. and they go looking for the players they need, according to their gaming system, one piece at a time.
this is a (healthy) way to build a team. but it's just one way....

another way (if u have a huge lot of money, and u know nothing about football and u just wanna put yourself on the map, trying to win something as soon as possible) is to get all the best players available on the market (or the ones u think are the best players available), the best coaching staff available, and then wait until the magic happens.

this might seem a quicker way to become a good team, compared to the "everton way"..... but in the end it's not that quicker, as real football is not like pes or fifa. having better players doesn't necessarily means having a better team.

however if tottenham's management will give some time to Ramos, sooner or later he will find his way to make this bunch of good\very good\amazing players a football team.
 
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Everton certainly is an example of an over-achieving team...
And yes maybe Spurs are buying too many players and the expectations are way too high.
I hope they let Juande Ramos the time to build, but i doubt it...
 
Spurs had a good forumula upfront. Basically you keep what is good and add to what is not.

They've gone a bought a whole new midfield and strike force. It will take time.
 
I just heard on the guardian podcast that the ref who sent off Terry got "relegated" or demoted to the championship by the FA.
I think this is outrageous.
The podcast is made by three people. One of them thought the sending off was a mistake but hardly a big one. Both other thought it was a justified sending off because no matter if there was a player who could still have challenged Jo, terry never looked at the ball.
It is not my intention to discuss the sending oof again or the fact that Terry can play against Man Utd, but i think the poor ref is a scapegoat in a very unsaviour story.

Refs already have a hard timle with all the diving, then there is this campiagn for respect and what happens ??? The FA is the first to show a blatant lack of respect.

This is simply outrageous.

Rant over and sorry.
 
I'm with you Gerd. I have nothing against Terry at all, I have no reason to, but he was making no attempt to take the ball. If I was the referee, I would have said bollocks to the letter of the law, quite frankly (if the letter of the law really does say it shouldn't have been a red), and sent him off. You don't look at the ball, you make no attempt to take the ball, so you're cheating - that's how I look at it.

If it is true that he's been demoted to referee a lower league then I think that's disgusting, and it shows how the game is evolving. Completely and utterly wrong.
 
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