eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

[Marlon Anthony]

In only 2+ minutes, one of the most accurate analysis on PES 2020 problems!

This video perfectly summerizes what i mean by your own AI team mates letting you down, failing you even.

I don't expect flawless, rock solid android defending just because they're AI, of course not. The games job is to strike a balance between disciplined regimented defending expected of top flight professional footballers while recreating the human decision making component that each defender would apply as an individual, All whilst the player is controlling a lone player and commanding the physical act.

But the problem is that because you cannot control say 5 players at once (And obviously one person can not control 10 players on the pitch at once...) We rely heavily on the AI teammates to support us with at least being positioned appropriately so that when we switch, We have a fair chance of defending the attack.

But dear god, It's just so unbelievably unacceptable the way players seem to repel from each other for the convince of the attackers that it's all i can think about when playing. It's way too jarring. This has got to be the worst positional AI in the series or at least it's as bad as 2019.

I promise, Player any PES from pre fox engine and this doesn't enter your thoughts once. You able to be immersed on the action on the pitch and engage with recreating the sport. It's escapism at it's finest.

This, Unless you drop it down to professional and allow yourself to compromise with dumber opposition who are suddenly incapable of stringing more than 3 urgent passes together to present a challenge, Your just asking for you blood vessels to burst open inside your body and lava hot claret to spoil your vital organs.

 

[spurs73]

I mean just look at the state of this. All you can do is laugh at this point.


I'll take the goal, but Konami really needs to address player model interaction, collisions, player switching, and AI awareness.

Go Konami Go!!!!

 

[Danny Henry]

 

[Chris Davies]

The third one, where the defender is CLEARLY getting to the ball but stops running for NO REASON... Oh man, I'm ready to punch a wall. I've uploaded a few examples of this myself but there's usually someone in the comments saying I've clearly pressed a button, or I should be using super-cancel, or God knows what.

 

[Danny Henry]

The third one, where the defender is CLEARLY getting to the ball but stops running for NO REASON... Oh man, I'm ready to punch a wall. I've uploaded a few examples of this myself but there's usually someone in the comments saying I've clearly pressed a button, or I should be using super-cancel, or God knows what.

Can you imagine, some of us been envited to some play testing event. After playing about 30 minutes, suddently the dude get up his chair and slap the promoter on the face(dont know If this is the right word, promoter) and yell:

"what a fuck is this you bictches!, why my player frozen after missing a pass!" or "How on earth that wasnt a foul, goddamit?!?"

 

[normazimuth]

Keep these videos coming:

- it's something to keep us entertained whilst Konami take a year out, leaving us with probably their worst (in terms of cheating) game ever for an extra year;

- it's an ongoing reminder to them that many of us DO notice these things, they're not subtle and not an acceptable means of "making the game challenging".

I mean just look at the state of this. All you can do is laugh at this point.

Or do what a growing number of us seems to be doing, going back to playing better editions of PES from a few years ago.

 

[Marlon Anthony]

The reason why we get so pissed off with these things isn't because we're sad or because we're dumb and can't figure out Better ways to spend out time... It's because we care. When you have a game that at moments has so much brilliance & potential, yet let down by shambolic programming that isn't really excusable in an age of quality assurance that we didn't have 10-15 years ago not to mention paying money for this, Then it's just so disappointing.

We WANT this game to be good. This isn't schadenfreude where we cross our fingers hoping it's bad so we can laugh. Who wouldn't want 2 brilliant football games each year?

Of course it's not the end of the world because thankfully we have 20 years worth of more polished football games to play. And if Konami want to make a game that isn't supposed to be realistic and it's supposed to be bumper car football with nice graphics because that's the direction they're going in, That's fine.

Just don't lie to us and tell us that this is realistic football & that we're playing it wrong when videos like this come out of the woodwork and show the contrary.

 

[PRO_TOO]

@MafiaMurderBag you have so much passion for the sport. You do enjoy the older titles (i enjoy the occasional episode). And i totally get that caring part! I agree.

I’m giving 2020 a chance every other week or so. But the AI seems brain dead in comparison to what I experience in 2017.

I see 2020 as the youngest child in the family so I’ll always have a look. But I mainly play 2017 wich is the grown up in the family. Not flawless but at the core it represents football values so much better.
Plus: it has the fun part nailed besides the sim aspects it tries to copy, imo.

Have a nice weekend y’all!

Edit: aaaahhh... Schadenfreude. Glad that made it over.
“When you have that Weltschmerz being at the Kindergarden and everybody else is in pure Schadenfreude!”

 

[rockstrongo]

I've given up on Pes ,modern Pes that is,same thing with FIFA.
There's nothing that reminds me of a game of football that I watch on TV and live every week (or used to do...Corona you know) in these games.
The rare occasions I do play football games,it's back to old titles just like @MafiaMurderBag wrote above,you never feel cheated or have a sour taste after playing Pes 11/12/13 or even older games.
I think I'm going to give Pes 14 a go again,regardless of lag etc.
Pes 20 is such a let down,just like Pes 19 was,just feel cheated every time I try to play them,and I try every now and then,just like @PRO_TOO does,not every week,but now and then.

Konami can't make a decent product anymore,EA won't because of YTubers wanting "fast paced action with minimum defending and most of all play 4-0-6"

So glad we have an interest in basketball and can play the best sim game and game mode ever made instead of this travesty.

 

[aderow]

This, Unless you drop it down to professional and allow yourself to compromise with dumber opposition who are suddenly incapable of stringing more than 3 urgent passes together to present a challenge

Exactly what I've done to have fun with it. It's about making my opponents as dumb as my teammates.

The third one, where the defender is CLEARLY getting to the ball but stops running for NO REASON... Oh man, I'm ready to punch a wall. I've uploaded a few examples of this myself but there's usually someone in the comments saying I've clearly pressed a button, or I should be using super-cancel, or God knows what.

Happened last night; Bailly moves up to intercept a pass and then just stutters as the ball rolls past him to the winger who goes and scores. I don't get it.

Or do what a growing number of us seems to be doing, going back to playing better editions of PES from a few years ago.

PES 2017 is still my most played game currently don't worry lol. I am having fun, despite the issues, with 2020 tho. Fixed cursor + professional + game speed -2 + player cam has been a decent time recently.

 

[Chris Davies]

Happened last night; Bailly moves up to intercept a pass and then just stutters as the ball rolls past him to the winger who goes and scores. I don't get it.

The whole "why have you suddenly shut down, like you're a robot whose batteries have just died" thing applies to players in all positions... Look at Lukaku (and this is the lauded demo):

 

[cgw5971]

I suppose this should not be an issue given the hours I've invested in the PES series... BUT. What is the appropriate us of the Defensive Backline control using the D-Pad? Is it just another tool to shut down passing lanes for the opposition or can it be used offensively as well?

I almost NEVER use the feature.

 

[Danny Henry]

The whole "why have you suddenly shut down, like you're a robot whose batteries have just died" thing applies to players in all positions... Look at Lukaku (and this is the lauded demo):

This happens because you are playing the game wrong. You suppose to pause the game, lock the cursor on Lukaku, manually dash foward then you ask for the ball. After this you pause the game again and unlock the cursor.

 

[normazimuth]

I suppose this should not be an issue given the hours I've invested in the PES series... BUT. What is the appropriate us of the Defensive Backline control using the D-Pad? Is it just another tool to shut down passing lanes for the opposition or can it be used offensively as well?

I almost NEVER use the feature.

I would say it's really just a defensive tool - you can push up to try and catch the opposition offside, though you have to time it well. I tend to rely on the auto-offside setting instead. Also, if the opposition is on the attack and you notice your defence is already a little high with space in behind, and you fear them being caught by a through ball or quick one-two, which could lead to an opposition attacker getting clean through on your goal, then you can use it to retreat a bit. Also, if you're protecting a lead late on and are already in full-defensive mentality, you can use it to help keep your defensive line as deep as possible.

In terms of attack, you can push your backline up towards the midfield, forcing the whole game further forward, thus pushing the opposition back a bit more, but I don't really see it as a genuine attacking tool.

I think its effects are pretty transient, maybe lasting a few seconds.

 

[rammeal]

The third one, where the defender is CLEARLY getting to the ball but stops running for NO REASON... Oh man, I'm ready to punch a wall. I've uploaded a few examples of this myself but there's usually someone in the comments saying I've clearly pressed a button, or I should be using super-cancel, or God knows what.

One of the worst ones I've seen is when a defender is marking a striker near the box as soon as he receives a pass with his back toward the goal your defender for some reason decides to turn and run away to goal momentarily. This infuriates me a lot.

 

[aderow]

I suppose this should not be an issue given the hours I've invested in the PES series... BUT. What is the appropriate us of the Defensive Backline control using the D-Pad? Is it just another tool to shut down passing lanes for the opposition or can it be used offensively as well?

I almost NEVER use the feature.

I use it to stop my backline from retreating into my box the second an opposition defender picks up the ball in theirs. And against 2 strikers? They'll retreat into the stands (for a drink probably).

 

[PalkonIrawan]

Wow this game is even worse than I imagined with DP7. Played with Belgium against San Marino and the San Marino defenders turned into prime Maldini and Cannavaro and easily caught up with Hazard in every situation whereas a random player from their team dribbled through my whole defense and scored. Stats are still meaningless and script still rules the game.

for real man, played with england against ukraine like playing against 2010 spain, 26-74% Possession.

 

[Dennis_87]

Emo-web

 

[PRO_TOO]

I suppose this should not be an issue given the hours I've invested in the PES series... BUT. What is the appropriate us of the Defensive Backline control using the D-Pad? Is it just another tool to shut down passing lanes for the opposition or can it be used offensively as well?

I almost NEVER use the feature.

Hey.
As I try to utilize all the control options available, I surely use the D-Pad for tactical settings.
one thing is changing the attack and defense level with up and down. another thing is using left/right to move my team back and forth.
So when the ball is cleared with a header after a corner kick (for example), i use it to rush my team out of the penalty box. Same when I want to put more pressure on the opponent when he’s trying to enter my half of the pitch (at midfield). or when the opponent is passing the ball around in their own half, I move all my man as high up as possible. its kinda like a workaround as the AI should be able to move more intelligent by itself. but we had that topic already!
And when I need all man back, I use that tool too. Just the opposite direction.

And there are 2 ways to use it btw. Double pressing and holding are different things! I try to use it wisely in the right circumstances. so sometimes I just want my team to move a few steps in one direction, thats when I hold it a bit. when I want them all to rush out or back to the max, I double press! This can be used as offside command to your team. I use that much more than the auto-offside function (wich seems to be part of that broken AI aspects)! Never wanna miss it again. It’s second nature for me after all those years now.
Sometimes I even press the LS + D-Pad the same time with the left thumb. because I’m giving tactical orders and move my player.

Next time we can talk about the benefits of manual teammate control. Another feature not many are using.

Great Avatar btw!

 

[slamsoze]

Keep these videos coming:

- it's something to keep us entertained whilst Konami take a year out, leaving us with probably their worst (in terms of cheating) game ever for an extra year;

- it's an ongoing reminder to them that many of us DO notice these things, they're not subtle and not an acceptable means of "making the game challenging".



Or do what a growing number of us seems to be doing, going back to playing better editions of PES from a few years ago.

Despite tie if someone likes the game or not, it is always good and productive to post specific flaws.

I do not remember an other year that, players upload videos of game's flaws in almost in daily base.
The pes community for an other time, takes the role of the play testers, by doing constant feedback.

 

[hitmanuk]

I've been having issues with players seeming a bit reluctant to run forward and the AI beating me to balls that I thought I should get to. So I've changed controls to assisted selecting of players and it's a game changer , my players seem to be more responsive , win far more balls and movement upfront is better, seem more attracted to the ball . Last two superstar games in Euros and I won and had lots of chances. Maybe I'm getting old and my reactions have slowed but I've really enjoyed my last few games

 

[slamsoze]

I have a theory, not tested yet, that game is designed to play normally, when you have full assists on, meaning cursor change, autosliding, PA3. By normally i mean that the general awareness, I assume will not be as crap as it is in the current default settings, or those most of us use, PA 0 or 1, cursor manual or semiasisted etc...

I am very convinced that if anyone in pes productions playtests the game, he does it with PA3 and every possible assist to ON.

 

[aderow]

Emo-web

If that's your response to constructive criticism, then you're better off not responding mate

 

[slamsoze]

Today's video. Player ordered to move off-the ball, is not aware where the field limits are!!!

 

[aderow]

Lol at least he tried

 

[aderow]

As I mentioned, I've been playing my fixed cursor save on pro. Recently I went to Arsenal and smashed them 6-1. Between that and knocking Liverpool out of the Champions League, I was considering moving back up to top player.

But then I played Brentford at home and it was somehow the most difficult and frustrating match of the 3.

Part of me wonders if it was because of team spirit (it was 85 against Brentford while it was 96 vs Arsenal and Liverpool).

Regardless, the way difficulty works in this game confuses me at times. I can have Robertson and Fabinho in my back pocket, but some 72 ovr defensive mid playing for Brentford knows everything I'm going to do before I do it. It just felt weird.

But back to TS. I've mentioned many times I want it removed completely or at least be given the option to turn it off. I'm very curious how it works in the engine. Does low team spirit give your opponents a boost in game? Does it reduce the effectiveness of in game mechanics?

What numerical value would be considered the point where team spirit stops being a detriment? Because you'd think 85 wouldn't be poor. Because I've not had much good play with TS being in the 80s all year.

 

[Chris Davies]

But then I played Brentford at home and it was somehow the most difficult and frustrating match of the 3.

Part of me wonders if it was because of team spirit (it was 85 against Brentford while it was 96 vs Arsenal and Liverpool).

I think it's a combination of:

* The difficulty level boosting poor teams (to always provide a challenge), but not good teams (which makes them much easier in comparison)
* Good teams attack constantly, leaving massive holes that any team (good or bad) can easily take advantage of, which makes it easier
* Your "Team Spirit" (which just seems to translate as "make your passes go directly to the opposition sometimes")

Either way, it's so much easier against the best teams compared to the worst. It's long been a PES problem.

What numerical value would be considered the point where team spirit stops being a detriment? Because you'd think 85 wouldn't be poor. Because I've not had much good play with TS being in the 80s all year.

I remember a few occasions where as soon as I reached a TS of 70+ there seemed to be less interference from the AI. 85 should be absolutely plenty.

That being said, after reading a post on here, I started playing around with the PA settings last time I played 2020 and going from PA1 to PA2 meant a team (Leeds United) with a Team Spirit of 60, who would misplace half their passes (not "organically" - not in the direction I was pushing the stick - but "forcibly" - with my passes being played directly to the opposition)... were suddenly "allowed" to play football again. (Not that it helped me out, every game was 0-0. I've given up on 2020.)

 

[aderow]

Good teams attack constantly, leaving massive holes that any team (good or bad)

That wasn't the issue in the Brentford match though. That defensive mid would come out to me on the wing and then outpace me and take the ball or outmuscle and then take the ball when I've faired better against much better defenders and despite me having the attribute advantage in all physical attributes compared to said DM and being in good form. His defensive prowess didn't add up.

My teammates constantly being out of position and just being more passive than usual was also the issue. The problems were more when Brenford had the ball and how my team defended.

Either way, it's so much easier against the best teams compared to the worst. It's long been a PES problem.

That was one of the big reasons I dropped down to professional. And it has helped; I generally dominate teams I should. Unless something very strange happens of course.

But yeah I remember how much fun playing teams with players in the 60s was in 2017. 65 overall was the new 95 lol.

I remember a few occasions where as soon as I reached a TS of 70+ there seemed to be less interference from the AI. 85 should be absolutely plenty.

But remember my teammates are all AI. You'd think 85 should be plenty but I see very strange behavior from my AI teammates even with 96 TS. So I can't definitely say 85 is plenty.

That being said, after reading a post on here, I started playing around with the PA settings last time I played 2020 and going from PA1 to PA2 meant a team (Leeds United) with a Team Spirit of 60, who would misplace half their passes (not "organically" - not in the direction I was pushing the stick - but "forcibly" - with my passes being played directly to the opposition)... were suddenly "allowed" to play football again. (Not that it helped me out, every game was 0-0. I've given up on 2020.)

I've never given PA2 a try tbf. I don't think there's a need to given I only control my winger.

 

[Chris Davies]

But remember my teammates are all AI. You'd think 85 should be plenty but I see very strange behavior from my AI teammates even with 96 TS. So I can't definitely say 85 is plenty.

Given how little focus goes into the single-player-control side of things, I do wonder if perhaps TS might be broken in that instance.

Say TS kicks in when you're in control of a player. You hit a direction on the analog stick (e.g. 127 degrees) and apply an amount of power (e.g. 55%), and the game goes e.g. "you were 90% right in terms of direction, and 70% right in terms of power - an average of 80% correct, divide 80 by your TS, if it's 1 or lower you make the pass, if it's higher we'll pass the ball to an opponent instead".

When it's the AI making all the passes, would TS even come into it? Because they're not pushing a stick at the wrong angles or using the wrong amounts of power, right? They're the AI, they're always right... So it becomes about what the attributes or difficulty levels do, potentially.

(All of the above is theory / thinking out loud, of course. But I've always wondered...)

 

[Chris Davies]

Sorry mate sources let me down, im 100% sure it will be announced within the next 2 days, sources have confirmed this.