eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

slamsoze said:
Do you trust a broken AI to change your att/def mentality? I never did , even in the golden era.
Although the mentality function seems bad implemented, on pes 2015 & 2016 for pc, that you couldn't change mentality, it was a big minus for me, that i don't use all 3 preset tactics, default-offensive-defensive.
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Same. I've never trusted it because I know how it changes it in BAL. Which, as I stated before, makes little since in a lot of instances.

slamsoze said:
As for mentality, i mean the attack/defence level. If i set to auto, and i am on the second leg of a CL knockout match, after a 0-0 first leg and in the second leg i concede 0-1 in 5', the AUTO mentality sets the bar to all out attack ( last red), which does not apply to anything in real life. When you are the underdog team in a match, it is like a suicide to go all out attack from 5th minute, even if you need two goals aggregate.
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Exactly why I had to stop playing BAL. Man I remember the day I noticed it. My team went ultra attack in a cup match only to then concede twice in 5 minutes. I'm sitting there confused at why my team is gung ho offensively and conceded so easily. To my surprise, one of my CBs was up front. We were only down 1 with 30 minutes left. Now I stick with ML where I can control it and I rarely feel the need to change it.

slamsoze said:
To conclude it, maybe it is something subjective, for me maybe it is broken, for someone else maybe it is more realistic.
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By realistic do you mean the frequency of success? Because I'd argue such a tactic shouldn't ever be routinely successful and consistent success doing isn't realistic. Hence why you only see teams do it irl in very specific instances.
 
Also @Alx1234 my thoughts were more it's poorly implemented than broken.

While I think it heavily influences positioning, I think the bad positioning is still a separate issue tied more so to overall awareness.

And if it's attack and ultra defense are going to behave like that, they need to be utilized less frequently by the AI. CMs positioning should correspond to that of the rapidly rapidly receding back line. CBs shouldn't go forward by default.

Honestly, the game could probably do with an extra level for both attack and defense. So there's more nuance between them.

That's been a reoccurring theme for with PES; it lacks nuance in a lot of little areas.
 
aderow said:
By realistic do you mean the frequency of success?
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I don't mean something specific, just putting it in as a safebelt of politically correctness, for the X/Y person who likes it as it is and may come and reply me "you are lazy/soft" "l2p", "git gud", "you are playing it wrong" etc. :)
 
slamsoze said:
For @PRO_TOO i will wait too.
For mentality, additionally to the rigid function, i have experienced a more mental difference inside the whole AI mentality thats makes things more or less mental. (This sounds a little bit crazy). That's maybe what the previous posters wanted to say.
Real Life Example: I play pes2017/2018. I am on 60' , 0-1 behind. I set up full attack mentality and gegenpress. There is a 50-50 chance, i score either the 1-1 or concede the 0-2 until the 75'~80'.
Then i play pes2019/2020. Same scenario, losing 0-1 on 60'. Setting full attack and gegenpress and it is, either 90% i concede 3 goals the next 10 minutes, resulting in a 0-4, or 10% i equalise 1-1. Excluding all payback script/handicaps by the CPU from the equitation.

Of course my example is oversimplified cause all over PES from 17 until now there are different variables like different stamina/fatigue effect, different cpu cheating, etc, etc. But what i take as a final result is if all out attack mentality is 1xtime broken in 2017, it is 5xtimes broken in 2020.
Practically in 2020 i will use only all out attack in a last minute corner, if i want the keeper to come for a header, or only in the last 2~3 in game minutes and only if the score is 0-1 and it is the final of the Galaxy or the Universe* cup tournament and nothing less. In any other case in the recent PES, i use the +1 red attacking bar (never the +2) no matter if i need 1/2, 1 , 2 , or 5 goals.

To conclude it, maybe it is something subjective, for me maybe it is broken, for someone else maybe it is more realistic.

PS: *And only if the Universe tournament is, whichever universe looses , it gets erased, like the Universe Survival Ark in Dragon Ball Super!!! :P
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Fair enough....but try one game please ...everything you said may be so but the fact is this is a new DP5 and playing a game with auto Att/Def on may (or may not) surprise you.

Of course, remember that we can always switch this off and take manual control during the game but I want to see what opinions are with it on from the start.
 
aderow said:
Also @Alx1234 my thoughts were more it's poorly implemented than broken.

While I think it heavily influences positioning, I think the bad positioning is still a separate issue tied more so to overall awareness.

And if it's attack and ultra defense are going to behave like that, they need to be utilized less frequently by the AI. CMs positioning should correspond to that of the rapidly rapidly receding back line. CBs shouldn't go forward by default.

Honestly, the game could probably do with an extra level for both attack and defense. So there's more nuance between them.

That's been a reoccurring theme for with PES; it lacks nuance in a lot of little areas.
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This CB point is also very accurate. It is too rigid when all out attack means +1CB in offense. And i really wonder where did KONAMI watch this and they made it a norm.
As far as i remember, i saw it twice, one from Mourinho in Chelsea around 2006, sending Huth to play as a second CF but only for the last minutes and only cause of his height and the crossing attack style and the second time i remember it was from a Guardiolas Barca, where Pique was playing as an extra CF, also for last minutes despite they were playing tiki-taka, no hopeless crosses.
I mean it is not so often to be the rule of all out attack.
I remember more often players like Nedved, Rosicky, Pires, Gerrard, Lambard, coming from the midfield to press more on the FW last line as an alloutattack situations, or SBs like R. CARLOS, Cafu, Marcelo, Tottenham Bale, Ashley Cole. Positions that make more sence to be in the final third than the CB.
The CB makes sense to come in for a CK, or a FK, whatever helps the momentum to catch a cross for a header. But i can't understand how it is the most common in PES 2020 all out attack, that your CB can stay forward for a whole halftime, while a CMF who is box-to-box, stays more behind than the CB all this time.
If it was PES 1970 it could be leggit. In modern football of 2020, it can't be viable for a CB to play as a CF for more than 10~15 minutes and depending on the situation.
 
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Alx1234 said:
Fair enough....but try one game please ...everything you said may be so but the fact is this is a new DP5 and playing a game with auto Att/Def on may (or may not) surprise you.

Of course, remember that we can always switch this off and take manual control during the game but I want to see what opinions are with it on from the start.
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Dude i will try, but can't promise, cause i left my house since DP 4.0, for job trip and when i will get back it is very likely that DP 5.0 will be history and i will play straight DP 6.0. I will possibly not get back to my console, in time to try 5.0!
A sign of our times!!! :)
 
slamsoze said:
I don't mean something specific, just putting it in as a safebelt of politically correctness, for the X/Y person who likes it as it is and may come and reply me "you are lazy/soft" "l2p", "git gud", "you are playing it wrong" etc. :)
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Lol that's when your say 'agree to disagree' ;)

slamsoze said:
This CB point is also very accurate. It is too rigid when all out attack means +1CB in offense. And i really wonder where did KONAMI watch this and they made it a norm.
As far as i remember, i saw it twice, one from Mourinho in Chelsea around 2006, sending Huth to play as a second CF but only for the last minutes and only cause of his height and the crossing attack style and the second time i remember it was from a Guardiolas Barca, where Pique was playing as an extra CF, also for last minutes despite they were playing tiki-taka, no hopeless crosses.
I mean it is not so often to be the rule of all out attack.
I remember more often players like Nedved, Rosicky, Pires, Gerrard, Lambard, coming from the midfield to press more on the FW last line as an alloutattack situations, or SBs like R. CARLOS, Cafu, Marcelo, Tottenham Bale, Ashley Cole. Positions that make more sence to be in the final third than the CB.
The CB makes sense to come in for a CK, or a FK, whatever helps the momentum to catch a cross for a header. But i can't understand how it is the most common in PES 2020 all out attack, that your CB can stay forward for a whole halftime, while a CMF who is box-to-box, stays more behind than the CB all this time.
If it was PES 1970 it could be leggit. In modern football of 2020, it can't be viable for a CB to play as a CF for more than 10~15 minutes and depending on the situation.
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Yeah that's how feel about it; they saw it once then decided to make it a mainstay.

There are so many ways to bolster an attack and PES uses one of the least used ones. Heck PES used to do it by talking of a defender/midfielder and bringing on an additional striker. That makes more sense than just sending up a CB at the start of the second half.

Sidenote. Speaking of set pieces, do CBs not go forward by default? Or do you have to set them to do so. Because I find that strange too. But I guess it's fine because it gives the user to choice to keep them back if needed.
 
aderow said:
Lol that's when your say 'agree to disagree' ;)



Yeah that's how feel about it; they saw it once then decided to make it a mainstay.

There are so many ways to bolster an attack and PES uses one of the least used ones. Heck PES used to do it by talking of a defender/midfielder and bringing on an additional striker. That makes more sense than just sending up a CB at the start of the second half.

Sidenote. Speaking of set pieces, do CBs not go forward by default? Or do you have to set them to do so. Because I find that strange too. But I guess it's fine because it gives the user to choice to keep them back if needed.
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For set pieces it is those who player chooses from the gameplan screen, players to join attack option.
Someone last year told me that it affects also the CB that becomes FW, but i cannot evaluate with details because i always use a same "wrong" recipe: 2CB+the taller SB to join set pieces and i always avoid to have CB with extra frontman playstyle, i find it very situational. So i do not have clear image how different instructions would collide:
IE having 1st CB with ExtraFrontman and setting the 2nd CB only to join attack.

Sidenote: Until PES5 you could set each individual players marking settings. There was zonal, man marking and covering. When i had set up Covering to my DMF and line defence to the defence, every time one of my 4 defenders was joining attack, my DMF was moving to cover his gap and form a 4-man line zone with the 3 others. Since these options are gone, i believe a playstyle like theis should exist ib the current day options. A DMF who plays as a sweeper in front of the DF zone and covers teamates who overlap to attack.
 
Alx1234 said:
Okay - so I agree that the mentality system makes little sense as you've pointed out in the bolded. My PES experimentation time has cut down significantly because its a seemingly open-ended puzzle. But when I read posts like those from @PRO_TOO I'm trying to work out what is it that he's doing to see what he's seeing that I'm not. This could be a factor....

@PRO_TOO, do you set auto att/def to on?
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Through the installed OF, it is enabled for some teams. I saw that and other stuff that was edited... fluid formations and such. Need to see and play more with it.
But I guess the creator had an idea in mind when setting those teams up, like klashman.

Edit: I don’t mind the keeper with lower ovr rating (through the OF). They do fit in so far. Some very nice one handed saves, rushing out... nothing too overpowered.

What I did, I edited the teams starting formation to the real thing right now. Then invented my own legends mode.
When I play against buddy’s: who’s down a goal can bring in a super legend. For every goal he concedes he can bringon another one.
And: Who’s 3 goals up is aloud to bring one in as well!! :D

Legends mode baby!! At least that’s the plan for this weekend. :D
 
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Been lost playing weak teams in 10v10 full manual, there's no chance I'll ever go back to 1v1.

There's just a huge amount of stuff that's just not possible to do when there's only one human controlling 11 players.


Just look at the use of space, and the closing of space, and how detrimental is when a defender concedes space/positioning/wrong body orientation.

Look at how much gradation there is on the pass, the angles/direction, the softnrss of passing, the lack of "snaps" and "3 rails" (discussed this before already)

Like, look at that low cross across the box where nobody got to. If u weren't expecting to move to the ball, you're not going to get there and intercept it. This is already wildly different from playing 1v1, where the snap is going to "choose" a player (friend or foe) and bring a player to the ball. That's a programmed stiff behavior, nothing organic about it. Here, u see instead the guy who actually got the ball was not expecting it either, but it is slowed down enough when it rolled to his area so he collected it. He collected the ball, THERE IS NO SNAP.


Look at how far lost when a defender is caught facing the wrong way. Look at that last 1-2 pass. Even in your normal 1v1 game the catch-up bug would kick in and track with robotic speed/tenacity. Here u see the human laxness and just genuine human mistakes (moment of getting caught in orientation and misjudgement). You can't go all-in commit to a ball and not intercept it. But in 1v1 holes are patched through your everyday [] COM pressure.

There's a lot to say about how tenacious the pressure is in 1v1 games, how it's just a cascaded layering of ball rushers, that occasionally comes back (lol, catch-up bug) even if u take them out of the play, making it seem like u can commit mistakes and patch it up with a second or third chance.

It's VERY ARCADE-Y. Doesn't matter if we are good at beating that anyway, it only proofs we are good at beating relentless game mechanics.

But in 10v10 u don't get a lot of that. Field opens up. Manual is perfect for it, since u have more time, and a well worked play leaves defenders behind. Even a small mistake creates weakness that takes a bit of work to patch up. Because everyone is human and everyone gets surprised (even by your own team mates mistake) and needs to spend a little time to acknowledge the new situation

I don't know, there's just so much going on on the field, it's almost like playing real football

The guys in this video aren't even on the same team, it's just a pick up game in a mixed up team.

You don't know what you're missing if you've never tried it. It expands the game and takes the stress off, and let's you focus on YOU, what you can contribute, how u can move to help. The ball is free, the rails gone, and predictability replaced by mutual understanding, or mind games.

Totally new horizon and you'll see a lot of stuff that just we won't ever see in 1v1, 1vCOM, 2v2 or 3v3. Give it a try. Kinda a nice break from 1v1 trying to wrestle the game to do what u want it to do (on the field, and in formation)

Edit: having offball humans is a complete game changer. I can't remember the enormous amount of times that a CF would make just a slightly off movement that makes it difficult to complete the final action of a goal like this. Not many cases where your AI CF in 1v1 would read the situation correctly and move slightly diagonal and wide to get a better heading opportunity at the far post. If u don't have that, u can't complete this goal. A lot of it I just don't see it possible to achieve by AI programming, unless the situational awareness becomes much more intelligent. In this case the CF just a side step to create more space for himself for a unsavable header. Same situation in a 1v1 game, I can't remember the amount of times I look at the CF and think "the F are u staying so close to getting shut down for, why not pull away to make more space, why are u not making the best of the situation?"

The answer to that, is always "of course, u'll always feel and behave like a robot"
 
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vxcmplx said:
Been lost playing weak teams in 10v10 full manual, there's no chance I'll ever go back to 1v1.

There's just a huge amount of stuff that's just not possible to do when there's only one human controlling 11 players.


Just look at the use of space, and the closing of space, and how detrimental is when a defender concedes space/positioning/wrong body orientation.

Look at how much gradation there is on the pass, the angles/direction, the softnrss of passing, the lack of "snaps" and "3 rails" (discussed this before already)

Like, look at that low cross across the box where nobody got to. If u weren't expecting to move to the ball, you're not going to get there and intercept it. This is already wildly different from playing 1v1, where the snap is going to "choose" a player (friend or foe) and bring a player to the ball. That's a programmed stiff behavior, nothing organic about it. Here, u see instead the guy who actually got the ball was not expecting it either, but it is slowed down enough when it rolled to his area so he collected it. He collected the ball, THERE IS NO SNAP.


Look at how far lost when a defender is caught facing the wrong way. Look at that last 1-2 pass. Even in your normal 1v1 game the catch-up bug would kick in and track with robotic speed/tenacity. Here u see the human laxness and just genuine human mistakes (moment of getting caught in orientation and misjudgement). You can't go all-in commit to a ball and not intercept it. But in 1v1 holes are patched through your everyday [] COM pressure.

There's a lot to say about how tenacious the pressure is in 1v1 games, how it's just a cascaded layering of ball rushers, that occasionally comes back (lol, catch-up bug) even if u take them out of the play, making it seem like u can commit mistakes and patch it up with a second or third chance.

It's VERY ARCADE-Y. Doesn't matter if we are good at beating that anyway, it only proofs we are good at beating relentless game mechanics.

But in 10v10 u don't get a lot of that. Field opens up. Manual is perfect for it, since u have more time, and a well worked play leaves defenders behind. Even a small mistake creates weakness that takes a bit of work to patch up. Because everyone is human and everyone gets surprised (even by your own team mates mistake) and needs to spend a little time to acknowledge the new situation

I don't know, there's just so much going on on the field, it's almost like playing real football

The guys in this video aren't even on the same team, it's just a pick up game in a mixed up team.

You don't know what you're missing if you've never tried it. It expands the game and takes the stress off, and let's you focus on YOU, what you can contribute, how u can move to help. The ball is free, the rails gone, and predictability replaced by mutual understanding, or mind games.

Totally new horizon and you'll see a lot of stuff that just we won't ever see in 1v1, 1vCOM, 2v2 or 3v3. Give it a try. Kinda a nice break from 1v1 trying to wrestle the game to do what u want it to do (on the field, and in formation)

Edit: having offball humans is a complete game changer. I can't remember the enormous amount of times that a CF would make just a slightly off movement that makes it difficult to complete the final action of a goal like this. Not many cases where your AI CF in 1v1 would read the situation correctly and move slightly diagonal and wide to get a better heading opportunity at the far post. If u don't have that, u can't complete this goal. A lot of it I just don't see it possible to achieve by AI programming, unless the situational awareness becomes much more intelligent. In this case the CF just a side step to create more space for himself for a unsavable header. Same situation in a 1v1 game, I can't remember the amount of times I look at the CF and think "the F are u staying so close to getting shut down for, why not pull away to make more space, why are u not making the best of the situation?"

The answer to that, is always "of course, u'll always feel and behave like a robot"
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If your on PS4, as long as i get a new position sorted next week i'll join you on PSN
 
@vxcmplx totally get what you mean pal.
I've played in a online league for about a month (NHL 20).
Were 5v5 or some nights 6v6,and it's brilliant playing Vs other hum who knows how to play the game the right way (Vs online randoms).
And I'm having trouble playing Vs CPU regardless of game nowadays.
Can't believe it isn't a thing for everyone (or at least more people)
But I guess the challenge is logistics,fixed days,rules etc,having dedicated people running it,and dedicated people playing it
 
slamsoze said:
For set pieces it is those who player chooses from the gameplan screen, players to join attack option.
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See I'd only been playing BAL so I didn't know this. It's only recently with ML I realized you could send them up for corners. It was something I just never saw with the AI.

vxcmplx said:
Been lost playing weak teams in 10v10 full manual, there's no chance I'll ever go back to 1v1.

There's just a huge amount of stuff that's just not possible to do when there's only one human controlling 11 players.
Click to expand...

Back when I played FIFA, I played OTP almost exclusively for the exact same reason. There the issue was finding people who actually wanted to play realistic football. The problem with PES seems, at times, to be finding people to begin with. At least when I tried.
 
So I think I'm gonna restart my ML save again lol. For a couple reasons. 1, the transfers. 2, since I know how I want to play I can set that tactic before I start the save so my team spirit isn't in the 50s lol. And finally, even though my team won't be in the 90s, and if it is low then I'll just drop the difficulty back to pro.

Honestly I'm thinking of changing the difficulty depending on the match tbf.

Also I really would like to figure out how to lower the AIs possession numbers against me.
 
rockstrongo said:
@vxcmplx totally get what you mean pal.
I've played in a online league for about a month (NHL 20).
Were 5v5 or some nights 6v6,and it's brilliant playing Vs other hum who knows how to play the game the right way (Vs online randoms).
And I'm having trouble playing Vs CPU regardless of game nowadays.
Can't believe it isn't a thing for everyone (or at least more people)
But I guess the challenge is logistics,fixed days,rules etc,having dedicated people running it,and dedicated people playing it
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Ah, ah, ah... the forbidden phrase! :LOL:
;)

Imo, GTS gets this right. The better you are, the more “right way of playing” you’ll encounter. Sure there are rammers and cutters on every level... but it gets better if you get better (aka following the rules of the sport)!

Don’t want to start that “it’s how you play”-topic again!! I’m just picking examples from other games, wich PES could learn a lot from (amongst others like tennis, baseball, golf)!

Edit: aaawwww... GTS is such a perfect example here. I could write a pages long essay... :SMOKIN:
 
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PRO_TOO said:
Ah, ah, ah... the forbidden phase! :LOL:
;)

Imo, GTS gets this right. The better you are, the more “right way of playing” you’ll encounter. Sure there are rammers and cutters on every level... but it gets better if you get better (aka following the rules of the sport)!

Don’t want to start that “it’s how you play”-topic again!! I’m just picking examples from other games, wich PES could learn a lot from (amongst others like tennis, baseball, golf)!

Edit: aaawwww... GTS is such a perfect example here. I could write a pages long essay... :SMOKIN:
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Yeah I'm thinking of people playing football on Pes and not the E-sport version of it,you know,4-0-6 guys spamming passes on Pa3 like it is when playing drop ins/lobby Vs dedicated players who love football,and play it accordingly
 
:APPLAUD: :APPLAUD: :APPLAUD:

well guys. following on from the discussion last night. on exh mode i think this game may have come back to form for me.

last night played spurs vs arsenal 3-6
spurs - norwich 2-2
spurs barca 1-3

klashed up EPL this AM
just played bournemouth 2-2
and now everton 3-1

amongst these games I had 1 pen (which I hit the crossbar with). decent fouls.

very nice to have Eriksen still in the squad.

some of the goals have me shouting YES! (the last one being a Sissoko vollet from from just outside the box, GK gets a hand to it but goes in off the post)

i'm seeing decent build-up and passes backwards/switching sides from CPU. there are random deflections and not this auto-wall everytime I try to go through the centre. It feels like anything can happen within the 90.

I've seen enough on Exh to give ML a go but I'll klash up the other leagues before I do that.

@Matt10 are you seeing any improvements in your game now?
 
Liverpool game today showed scripting in PES does not exist, its realism.
It all depends which side you are on to celebrate or to be frustrated beyond belief.
 
Njorgo7 said:
I found some 'information' for the Euro 2020 DLC, from this Belgian website.

https://www.cld.be/ShowItem.aspx?id_art=116416

Apparently KONAMI are only adding 2 new stadiums (Wembley & St. Petersburg), in addition to the Allianz Arena, Johan Cruijff Arena and the Olimpico.

:(
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Is the source reliable? +2 stadiums sounds extremely large content, for KONAMI standards.
 
slamsoze said:
Is the source reliable? +2 stadiums sounds extremely large content, for KONAMI standards.
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Nothing official has been announced by KONAMI yet, but apparently the release date is April 30th, which will probably be the day it's free to download, considering KONAMI release DLC's on Thursday and April 30th is a Thursday
 
Alx1234 said:
:APPLAUD: :APPLAUD: :APPLAUD:

well guys. following on from the discussion last night. on exh mode i think this game may have come back to form for me.

last night played spurs vs arsenal 3-6
spurs - norwich 2-2
spurs barca 1-3

klashed up EPL this AM
just played bournemouth 2-2
and now everton 3-1

amongst these games I had 1 pen (which I hit the crossbar with). decent fouls.

very nice to have Eriksen still in the squad.

some of the goals have me shouting YES! (the last one being a Sissoko vollet from from just outside the box, GK gets a hand to it but goes in off the post)

i'm seeing decent build-up and passes backwards/switching sides from CPU. there are random deflections and not this auto-wall everytime I try to go through the centre. It feels like anything can happen within the 90.

I've seen enough on Exh to give ML a go but I'll klash up the other leagues before I do that.

@Matt10 are you seeing any improvements in your game now?
Click to expand...

Playing offline league games only, gameplay and CPU also feels very natural to me on full manual and superstar level. Whatever Konami changed with the last patch or not, it surely didn't ruin it.
 
philla said:
Playing offline league games only, gameplay and CPU also feels very natural to me on full manual and superstar level. Whatever Konami changed with the last patch or not, it surely didn't ruin it.
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I agree totally, ive gone off manual though now and gone to PA 1 and advanced shooting - feels slightly more stat based with more individuality but thats a personal preference - i have been on FUMA most of the year. i think thi sis back to early patch stage - really enjoying it could do with a few more fouls and pens are non existent
 
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