eFootball PES 2020 Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox One)

slamsoze said:
How im the name of god AI defending is noob friendly and AI auto attacking homing-missiles proves "skill-gap"@@!!??? (I hate this word really) :)
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Me too. Anybody talking about the "skill gap" will immediately prioritise eSports elements (i.e. the difference between non-football elements between the two human players) and give less than a damn about the actual recreation of football.

Over the past ten years, we've seen microtransactions try to ruin football games, and now it's eSports too. Insane competitiveness leading to, especially in the other game, complaints about the game ever showing realism (e.g. when a striker misses a shot due to spin on the ball or the balance of the player - "BUT I PRESSED SHOOT AND I WAS IN FRONT OF GOAL SO I SHOULD HAVE SCORED AARRGGHH THIS IS SHIT" - and the games are moulded by these people because their stupid complaints go viral).

Really scares me for the future of football games, because neither of these things are going away any time soon.
 
slamsoze said:
Let me tell a story here:
First of all, although i hate labels and stereotypes, the average MyClub player, almost 7/10 is a guy playing PA3, full assisted , stringing square one-touch passes, until they come up in point-blank spot with Sane,Mane,Salah,Mbappe,Cronaldo,Messi etc....
Taking those as given, when it comes to Myclub and even specific Muclub Challenge Cups, where there is not sny filter, you will most often meet someone playing to win by any means, combined with the toxicity existing in most online "competitive" games, and you end up playing against a person, who if it was possible would break through the TV screen to cause you food poisoning and win ( i don't even include the lag-cheaters) .
This combined with script/handicap/ boosting results to a mixee situation, which if you want you have to accept. It is type of license agreement! If you are a FuMa guys hoping that you will jump in MC and make a better world, you just live in an illusion. (You general, not personal). It is like you go in a battlefield against enemies with nuclear weapons and you carry a wooden sword.

This is the prelude. On top of this some FuMa people tend to have a funtamentalistic mentality .Last year i was playing a Myclub challenge cup, can't remember what i wanted to achieve, a trophy? Somecoins to spin for Adriano. I just wanted a win in pvp. I am always playing PA1, semi cursor,basic all rest, manual teamate off the ball.I was against a FuMA guy from UK. In a competition!In MC, cause there are no filters in Cups. My only minus was i had a 2* team by accident, while he had a 4*.
It was obvious that if we were playing both FuMA i would have lost for sure, he was leagues better than me. But me on PA1 was almost unfair, it was almost pointless to compete. Out of fair play mentality, i tried to make many passes with L2, to keep things more "balanced". We ended up 1-1, in my defense, i could win 3-1 but i wasted two shoots in empty goalpost, as a kind of fairplay too. I told myself that as FuMa guys arrle men of honor, i will try to respect it.
I won him in Penalty Kick process and for my surprise he ragequited the match, instantly after i saved the last penalty.
The aftermath of all these was 2-3 days after, i saw a post of him on reddit, i remembered his nickname which was the same with in-game and he was cursing me and flaming me , i assume it was me (not sure 1000% but the description matched our game), saying that he played in MC against a PA3- full assisted whor€ (me?) , and that i was so arrogant kiddo that i mocked him, trying some FuMa passes with L2, which i failed all hard, and that it was a blasphemy that i touched the L2 trigger, cause i am a little PA3-wh0r€. While on the opposite side i tried to play many manual passes as an act of Fairplay. He also wished me death,cancer, fire on my house and my family and many other best wishes like KONaMI and SoNY ban my console etc,etc...
And all these from a guy playing FuMa, which i thought would have a honor code, since he choose to play Fuma, you know the stereotype here, FuMa guys are more sophisticated, more elité etc, etc....
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You've met an asshole, that's for sure. It doesn't matter if he's fuma or non-fuma, that's just his character.
There's no excuse for that kind of behaviour.

As a fuma(90% only, using some assistance.lol) player, I understand the frustrations of playing against non-fuma.
Last year on PC, I've played tons of friendly matches against strangers(non-fuma).
It sucks that I have to exert more effort but can't score and the opponent can just score without much effort(especially if they are using big teams).
It's just not fair but I also don't have choice but to play with them because I can't find some other fuma players on PC, so I have to accept that that is the nature of it.

OFFLINE, being fuma or non-fuma player will not matter much since it's just a matter of preference. You play what settings you enjoy.
ONLINE is totally different since most people wants to play "FAIR" and wants to play against people with similar settings or team strength.
I don't mind "winning or losing" as long the match is "FAIR".

I guess there should be a proper or more filters online. That way, the game is more fair for everyone.
 
Elanimator said:
You've met an asshole, that's for sure. It doesn't matter if he's fuma or non-fuma, that's just his character.
There's no excuse for that kind of behaviour.

As a fuma(90% only, using some assistance.lol) player, I understand the frustrations of playing against non-fuma.
Last year on PC, I've played tons of friendly matches against strangers(non-fuma).
It sucks that I have to exert more effort but can't score and the opponent can just score without much effort(especially if they are using big teams).
It's just not fair but I also don't have choice but to play with them because I can't find some other fuma players on PC, so I have to accept that that is the nature of it.

OFFLINE, being fuma or non-fuma player will not matter much since it's just a matter of preference. You play what settings you enjoy.
ONLINE is totally different since most people wants to play "FAIR" and wants to play against people with similar settings or team strength.
I don't mind "winning or losing" as long the match is "FAIR".

I guess there should be a proper or more filters online. That way, the game is more fair for everyone.
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This makes me wish I could get used to FUMA, but I've tried playing a few people online using FUMA controls (in this game and the other game too actually) and been absolutely destroyed. :LOL: But the fact that there's nobody else out there to get matched with is really depressing. I remember having a few games on an old FIFA with both players using semi-controls and thinking "this is just brilliant", then spending the next 45 minutes trying to find someone else and giving up.

Everyone wants to win and it's ruining games. (See my previous post...)
 
Chris Davies said:
Really scares me for the future of football games, because neither of these things are going away any time soon.
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My hope is that some truly great indie designers take up the mantle of a 'proper*' football simulation. They've mostly ended up as mild novelties so far (Like New Star Soccer). Online MMO football games in the past promised much, but delivered very little. I'd like to think most of us here would be happy with stick-men on a 2d view if the actual AI and physics felt accurate and the game played 'properly*'.

* Obviously this differs form person to person
 
Chris Davies said:
This makes me wish I could get used to FUMA, but I've tried playing a few people online using FUMA controls (in this game and the other game too actually) and been absolutely destroyed. :LOL: But the fact that there's nobody else out there to get matched with is really depressing. I remember having a few games on an old FIFA with both players using semi-controls and thinking "this is just brilliant", then spending the next 45 minutes trying to find someone else and giving up.

Everyone wants to win and it's ruining games. (See my previous post...)
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Insane tangent, but I promise it'll make sense!
My primary hobby is as a board gamer (used to be a video gamer, only really PES that keeps me in it). When playing a new game, you are all learning together and you tend to just do whatever you like. However, often I will have played a game before and be teaching a new player. In these situations, I won't handicap myself by playing poorly (that doesn't really work) but I will try a brand new tactic that I don't know if it could be successful. I in-fact enjoy this in games more than the pure winning. The discover of new successful (or very unsuccessful!) strategies is the joy of the game for me. If a game only has one surefire way to win, that doesn't necessarily mean it's broken. But it does mean I'm likely to stop playing it. Luckily with PES offline, there are many ways to find success in the ML. Online it does seem that there are very few ways.
If I just thrashed everyone each time I taught them a new game that I've played before, I'd soon end up with people not wanting to try new games. Truly my joy is in playing the games; yes I play to win, but that's not my primary goal. My primary goal is to have fun first and foremost. I think that a lot of online competitive play (this is not aimed at any individual, or all online gamers) forgot the 'have fun first' part and it's why PES is my only real video-gaming these days :(
 
Don't want to sound pessimistic but in my opinion the situation isn't going to change.

There will be one game with budget but limited by their own fans, Fifa, forced to follow a spectacular representation of football while being realistic enough, but not as realistic as hardcore simulation fans want

and another one, Pes, that will always feel incomplete, with plenty of great elements to make it a great football simulation, but in the end limited by budget, incomplete development, half-assed features and modes.

I can't see how a third football game can establish itself. Considering that the software house everyone considered as the saviour of realistic gameplay (2K) is now fully committed to scummy lootboxes and casino trailers.
Dark times await.

I don't have a doubt in my mind that Konami is closer to what i want from a football simulation and will support them whenever they make efforts to improve on Pes gameplay but i really hope Konami will finally give Pes team all the support they need to improve it so much more. Problem is i can't see that happening anytime soon.
 
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Chris Davies said:
This makes me wish I could get used to FUMA, but I've tried playing a few people online using FUMA controls (in this game and the other game too actually) and been absolutely destroyed. :LOL: But the fact that there's nobody else out there to get matched with is really depressing. I remember having a few games on an old FIFA with both players using semi-controls and thinking "this is just brilliant", then spending the next 45 minutes trying to find someone else and giving up.

Everyone wants to win and it's ruining games. (See my previous post...)
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I understand what you're saying regarding "winning".
First week of playing "online divisions", I got sucked into winning too but realized I'm not enjoying much. During this time, I'm already contemplating selling my PS4 because I'm not having as much fun compare to the demo where people are playing more to experiment and not really to win.

To be honest, I didn't know I'm playing that way until someone post in "discord" that: "online division even in fuma sucks, manual players are just passing the ball to the forwards, 1-2 and shoot".
Oh no! That includes me. I want to win and I'm doing this types of plays again and again. Before this I'm only playing PES to make plays I've enjoyed but now I'm playing to win and the quality of plays doesn't matter much to me anymore.
Started to play the way I used to again and got back enjoying the game. I'm not winning much but enjoying so that is good.

Anyways, I sold my ps4 already. Just playing one session per week against a cousin online, we're still playing demo and don't plan to buy the full game until the demo servers are out by December. We're just using south american team anyways and don't play offline mode aside from exhibition. We are not missing much with the full game.
 
fregen said:
Have you tried PA0 and similar settings in Online Divisions, I think you would find it a quite different experience. :)
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PA0 games are a bit more tolerable because of the lack of ping pong, but still a mess.

It's still a 100mph pressure fest all over the pitch, maybe even more so than PA3 because it's easier to pressure a manual player into mistakes.

You still don't have good enough dribbling/shielding to evade them and/or protect the ball from mindless pressure, the auto tackles have massive reach, and the referees barely exist. All contributes to having to play the most vanilla simple football with the odd long ball or cross.

It seems most people in PA0 still just use Liverpool and basic shooting as well. You get the odd one who uses another team and thinks they are "playing football", but their version of that is to just try keeping the ball the entire half doing nothing with it at 0-0.
 
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rojofa said:
PA0 games are a bit more tolerable because of the lack of ping pong, but still a mess.

It's still a 100mph pressure fest all over the pitch, maybe even more so than PA3 because it's easier to pressure a manual player into mistakes.

You still don't have good enough dribbling/shielding to evade and/or protect the ball from mindless pressure, the auto tackles have massive reach, and the referees barely exist. All contributes to having to play the most vanilla simple football with the odd long ball or cross.

It seems most people in PA0 still just use Liverpool and basic shooting as well. You get the odd one who uses another team and thinks they are "playing football", but their version of that is to just try keeping the ball the entire half doing nothing with it at 0-0.
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I suggest you join FUMA discord group. Lot's of good manual players there who plays well and realistic.
I'm the most jealous against my opponent when they're good and play realistic at the same time. But it's a good jealousy because I'm striving to be like them :)) but have to admit I stopped aiming to improve on this game.
Sold my PS4 and realized it's not practical to play online fuma being from Asia, Timezone and connection issue.
 
My Club is football for the insane.
Having played a handful of games last weekend it has just confirmed my views on it from previous years.

1. Any attempt to play Football properly will be sorely punished , that means no dribbling, no tackling, get rid of the ball instantley . Pass pass pass pass as quick ass you can press that button.

2. Tackling is a waste of time, i played one match where the opponents stats were Tackles 0. WTF is that all about.

3. Its massively handicapped/scripted . I have about 6or7 stars in my team through starting bonuses (messi,kroos etc) but when i played against a team with mostly 60s rated players it was harder than when i played a team full of Stars like Ronaldo, Sane, Sala, Aguero .

Whats the point of having a team of top players, getting coins and Gps to spend if it makes you worse or handicaps you .

Why cant we have a mode thats 100% level, no scripting, and you get say 200M to build a team so that everyone is equal. Then you can have a Fuma League, Semi-Manual League(PA1) or Assisted league(PA3).
 
chickenhawk said:
Why cant we have a mode thats 100% level, no scripting, and you get say 200M to build a team so that everyone is equal. Then you can have a Fuma League, Semi-Manual League(PA1) or Assisted league(PA3).
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That´s actually a cool idea.
They could name it SIM mode or something like that.
 
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rojofa said:
PA0 games are a bit more tolerable because of the lack of ping pong, but still a mess.

It's still a 100mph pressure fest all over the pitch, maybe even more so than PA3 because it's easier to pressure a manual player into mistakes.

You still don't have good enough dribbling/shielding to evade them and/or protect the ball from mindless pressure, the auto tackles have massive reach, and the referees barely exist. All contributes to having to play the most vanilla simple football with the odd long ball or cross.

It seems most people in PA0 still just use Liverpool and basic shooting as well. You get the odd one who uses another team and thinks they are "playing football", but their version of that is to just try keeping the ball the entire half doing nothing with it at 0-0.
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I agree with your first two arguments (although I don't find it THAT bad) but the last one isn't true at all in my experience. I rarely come up against Liverpool and other bigger clubs, it happens but imo it's much more often smaller or mid- level teams. And I have NEVER met someone who just want to keep the ball and do nothing with it (?!). But I understand you don't like it if that's the case for you.
 
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hitmanuk said:
nah disagree, there could be more fouls and definitely more penalties but there's plenty of evidence of people having 5,6 fouls per game - my last broadcast had 5 from yesterday. No one is saying anyone is playing it wrong there's no such thing, but different approaches alter the AI approach. If you cut passing lanes they will go long, if you cut passing lanes near the area they will shoot from distance - if you give them space they will exploit it. Thats not playing it wrong or right thats just tactics and defending
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Concur with this. I have no issue with getting free kicks. Usually get between 5-8 per game without issue.Its definitely to do with playing style and match length. I think a lot of depends on how often you sprint. I find if I press sprint only when i'm changing direction in tight spaces, I tend to tempt the AI into tripping me up.

That said, the refereeing isn't great. Advantage is rarely played. Penalties are hard to come by, regardless of how obvious the foul is. The AI is overly aggressive and seems capable of reading your mind when you are dribbling. It feels like as soon as a flick the direction stick, the AI teleports to whatever space I am moving into. Like the button press triggers the response, as opposed to the AI reacting to my players actual movement.
 
wow - commentary. I just cant believe. Its so shity! (somebody say its a good emotional commentary? fuck its too emotional, you can scary somethimes).
also animation of players - more than shity.
maybe gameplay is worth to leave pes6 but summary is for me clear - cant stand commentary (which is so important for me) + these animations (which ruin the overal game look) + players movement (similar like in fifa, when they change direction or just run, in some part of their move - they look like robots or non-humans).
My opinion is 6/10 and another year of lost time in football gaming.

PES and FIFA 2010+ still for money, PES6 for real gaming love and good gameplay and big influance from people who love to edit.
 
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michael4321 said:
wow - commentary. I just cant believe. Its so shity!
also animation of players - more than shity.
maybe gameplay is worth to leave pes6 but summary is for me clear - cant stand commentary (which is so important for me) + these animations (which ruin the overal game look) + players movement (similar like in fifa, when they change direction or just run, in some part of their move - they look like robots or non-humans).
My opinion is 6/10 and another year of lost time in football gaming.
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Out of curiosity, what particular animations don't you like? They're something I really like in PES in general.
 
Chris Davies said:
Just had a few games online, and I honestly don't think I've ever wasted my free time on something as pointless. Pressure whores everywhere you look, nowhere to pass the ball without being pressured and dispossessed because response times are so piss poor. You have to play their brand of football (ping-pong passing) to stand a chance.

If I only played football games online (I include the other one here), this would be up there with the worst year for football games ever, for me. Seriously.

Makes you realise when you talk to a "normal" gamer, you're both talking about completely different experiences, even if you're talking about the same game. I won't be playing online again against randoms any time soon. Fucking dreadful.
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Online feels like a totally different game to me. Feels more like Codemasters Club Football. It's like 2/3rds of the game have been stripped away to make it a simplified version of the offline game for whatever reason.
 
chickenhawk said:
My Club is football for the insane.
Having played a handful of games last weekend it has just confirmed my views on it from previous years.

1. Any attempt to play Football properly will be sorely punished , that means no dribbling, no tackling, get rid of the ball instantley . Pass pass pass pass as quick ass you can press that button.

2. Tackling is a waste of time, i played one match where the opponents stats were Tackles 0. WTF is that all about.

3. Its massively handicapped/scripted . I have about 6or7 stars in my team through starting bonuses (messi,kroos etc) but when i played against a team with mostly 60s rated players it was harder than when i played a team full of Stars like Ronaldo, Sane, Sala, Aguero .

Whats the point of having a team of top players, getting coins and Gps to spend if it makes you worse or handicaps you .

Why cant we have a mode thats 100% level, no scripting, and you get say 200M to build a team so that everyone is equal. Then you can have a Fuma League, Semi-Manual League(PA1) or Assisted league(PA3).
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i'll keep saying this, and i've been saying this since 2016 when we discovered the 2 year server shut off.

you guys who want a good online game just aren't seeing it or aren't prepare to change your ways.

year 1 : build your team.
year 2 : take your team online.

yeh i haven't played a single myclub game but when 2021 releases i'll be giving it a try to see if things have changed.
 
fregen said:
I agree with your first two arguments (although I don't find it THAT bad) but the last one isn't true at all in my experience. I rarely come up against Liverpool and other bigger clubs, it happens but imo it's much more often smaller or mid- level teams. And I have NEVER met someone who just want to keep the ball and do nothing with it (?!). But I understand you don't like it if that's the case for you.
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Maybe not literally nothing, but they'll pointlessly recycle the ball about 5 times every possession and then just try the same thing they could have done 5 ingame minutes ago... All the while probably thinking they are some sophisticated simulation FUMA player for playing the game "slowly".

I rarely see people in PA0 that play impressive pinpoint passes/crosses or have great vision/timing... It's pretty much always just simple passes to players your defensive AI doesn't mark properly (even if you set man marking) then try to sprint and bundle the ball through with fast/strong players and maybe a pass across for an empty net.
 
rojofa said:
Maybe not literally nothing, but they'll pointlessly recycle the ball about 5 times every possession and then just try the same thing they could have done 5 ingame minutes ago... All the while probably thinking they are some sophisticated simulation FUMA player for playing the game "slowly".

I rarely see people in PA0 that play impressive pinpoint passes/crosses or have great vision/timing... It's pretty much always just simple passes to players your defensive AI doesn't mark properly (even if you set man marking) then try to sprint and bundle the ball through with fast/strong players and maybe a pass across for an empty net.
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yea

FUMA is poor game to watch quality wise compared to PA1
 
fefepes said:
yea

FUMA is poor game to watch quality wise compared to PA1
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To watch yes. But not to play. Breaking down defenses with assisted one-two passes will get boring much quicker than trying to break the defense on manual, where you can pass into space and create situations that would NEVER happen on assisted.
Some missed opportunities on FUMA are way more rewarding than goals scored on assisted.
 
I am done with 1.3 .. i will hate game if i play more so i quit till 1.4 ..
Laser guiding missile defenders super tacklings..
First touch responsiveness (player freeze bug)
No effects of body feints skill moves finese dribbling fake shots (cpu doesnt respond any of them)
Players not to know where to ball is (loose ball reactions)

I hope those are issued for the new patch.. if not it will be a pity... pes 2020 will remain as the highest potential avarage game imo
 
rojofa said:
Maybe not literally nothing, but they'll pointlessly recycle the ball about 5 times every possession and then just try the same thing they could have done 5 ingame minutes ago... All the while probably thinking they are some sophisticated simulation FUMA player for playing the game "slowly".

I rarely see people in PA0 that play impressive pinpoint passes/crosses or have great vision/timing... It's pretty much always just simple passes to players your defensive AI doesn't mark properly (even if you set man marking) then try to sprint and bundle the ball through with fast/strong players and maybe a pass across for an empty net.
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I don't really get the problem, I mostly care about how I play and I try to play as unpredictable as possible. Not because it might the best way to win but because I get most out of the game doing that. If others play in a different way I don't care that much, it's quite easy to defend those guys just trying to play the simple, straight ball to their attackers. Especially on PA0.

At least PA0 gives you the chance to defend things like that in contrast to PA1 and above.

Anyway, I'm not trying to start something here. I have many issues with the game...;)

Atm I found it slightly better than PES 19, hopefully the patch will making a tad bit better.
 
michael4321 said:
wow - commentary. I just cant believe. Its so shity! (somebody say its a good emotional commentary? fuck its too emotional, you can scary somethimes).
also animation of players - more than shity.
maybe gameplay is worth to leave pes6 but summary is for me clear - cant stand commentary (which is so important for me) + these animations (which ruin the overal game look) + players movement (similar like in fifa, when they change direction or just run, in some part of their move - they look like robots or non-humans).
My opinion is 6/10 and another year of lost time in football gaming.

PES and FIFA 2010+ still for money, PES6 for real gaming love and good gameplay and big influance from people who love to edit.
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I’m back on PES 2013. I played my ML save for a few hours today and it’s still such a better game than PES 2020. It’s deeper, it’s fairer, it’s more fun and the pitches aren’t bright yellow. And FOULS! There are fouls!

So, here I am, in 2019. Playing a 7 year old game. Again.
 
fefepes said:
yea

FUMA is poor game to watch quality wise compared to PA1
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It is?! Hm... depends on what you like to see.
It’s all down to what you prefer. I like it to be slow and with a rush or counter attack in between. Ain’t nobody rushing all the time in real life. That’s not real football.
Just saying. :)

Edit: I’ll be putting up a live steam in a few minutes. Watch it. Practice is key! ;)
Anyway... If you don’t like it, cool!
I just can show what I like. Have a look. :)
 
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Actually guys, a thought just crossed my mind. I said manual is boring to watch. I might have to disagree with myself there. :LOL:
I remember I was watching TTB master league in the past, when he played on manual. It was fun, it was unpredictable and there were some really funny moments together with his commentary.
The minute he moved to assisted (saying it will be much better to watch) I stopped watching it. To me that was the moment his ML series instantly lost all the magic.
Now its like any other ML series, where I cant see the point of watching it, when I can play it myself.
 
Flipper the Priest said:
General gripe: camera settings that move like they're controlled by humans. Just keep up with the play and let me see the pitch and play my video game.
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Is that an advice to the devs?!

I wish the stadium cam could focus on where the ball is some more!! Sometimes it just get lost. But i don’t wanna miss that cam anymore. Same with the game. Besides it’s flaws, it can be brilliant!

Shines so much sometimes!!

If you (not @Flipper the Priest in particular )can overlock those flaws, that is another story.

Edit: good night y’all. Take care. :BEER:
 
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