eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

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PES Revolution said:
I really love PES 2020 gameplay. I guess I will put my money on it. Can't wait!

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gosh!!! they put in another information screen (min 6:36) with an advise to use 60-70% power when doing free kicks! :TD:
first they added that stupid "what formation is played" info when a match starts, now this...
btw: what about stats matter when doing free kicks!?!?!? ^^

2021 will give you advices (in percentages) what to do in every situation! ^^
2022 you will just watch a match. only you can say (press a button) "shoot" and "pass" when you want them to do it. ^^
2023 you will just watch an automated match! ^^

;) kidding here! but really! let the people play! let there be a learning curve! thats a HUGE part of the fun while playing video games! at least i think so! :)
 
Chris Davies said:
He's played two matches as Barcelona and says it's gone from arcade to sim. That's a pretty big claim off the back of two matches as the best team in the game.
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I wouldn't trust Eurogamer with any review on PES ever, but this was actually a quite nice read (that included a lot of general criticism in the first paragraph.

When he says: "It all means you're thinking about space and players and tempo and movement, all the things you imagine a coach shouting at you in the dugout, instead of about exploiting systems in the game itself. It's about working space for a shot, instead of working space for a certain mechanic you know to be overpowered." it tickles all my sweet spots.

Let's hope he is right.
 
Rodchenko said:
Oh my, you are a dribble master! Amazing moves, especially the one from 0:37 secs. What difficulty level is this on?
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Ha! Steady now, I wouldn't go that far!! :LOL: I always play on Superstar. I do try Legend pretty regularly but it's ridiculous trying to go past multiple players.

@PRO_TOO
Is it really that bad? You only see it once.
 
Although the limited directions were awkward, 2013's dribbling had great variety in terms of pace and close control. As well as your usual left stick dribbling, R2 dribbling and R1 dribbling, you also had x2 R1(or x3 I can't remember) which knocked the ball slightly ahead of you when sprinting and also R1+R2 which knocked the ball a long way ahead whilst sprinting. Finally there was the 'burst' (R1 and R2 from slow dribble) which was a great tool to make a bit of space. I'm hoping pes 2020 returns with the big knock on whilst dribbling (and as a first touch) that we used to have in previous iterations.
 
Dribbling in Pes 2013 was a joke. Just to prove my point back in the day, I created this "dribbling 50 something" CF and scored a huge amount of this kind of goals on superstar.
 
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OBH said:
@Chuny
So I wanted to go back to dribbling quickly if I may.

You mentioned earlier that you have no interest in using the skill stick, and that dribbling by just changing your speed isn't as good as it has been (which is fair enough! Plenty of people seem to agree with you), so I've very, very quickly cut up a video of Messi from both the 2013 video you posted, and me playing two quick games on 2019. (I had to reduce the resolution as it's not fair comparing 4k videos to 720p!). I've not touched the skill stick, the only thing I've used is the dummy shot as it's also used in the 2013 video.

All I wanted to ask was two things: The first is; unless I'm totally missing the point, what exactly is taking place in the 2013 clips that cannot be done in this year's PES? (@Chris Davies may be able to point it out too as you've also made a similar comment). And the second is; looking specifically at the last 2013 video where he's moving all over the place - do we really think that looks more genuine than how dribbling looks now? And would it really be a step forwards if PES 2020 was to go back to this style of player movement?

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First of all :WORSHIP: Great video, great skills!

Second of all :WORSHIP: Thank you very much for taking the time to think about what I said and care enough to do this!

Now, your PES 2019 dribbling is undoubtedly the best anyone can do with the current mechanics. I'm 100% certain about that. There are some small animations there that are very natural and, if they happened more often, or if there was a way to manually trigger them, it would make the whole system soooo much better. For example, at exactly 0:37, that animation looked so lifelike. A different one, but still very nice, at 0:54. Nice and smooth. And, at 1:28... GREAT ONE!

I dislike animations and moves like the ones that can be seen at: 0:24 and 0:29.
Unfortunately, for me anyways, those kind of animations are the ones I see happen the most when I'm holding the controller myself. Those weird moves. I don't know it feels weird to me, the way the legs move and the way Messi's torso is facing the other way.

Oddly enough, I found a great new patch for PES 2013 yesterday, very up-to-date, and fired it up. So I have been playing PES 2013 myself just yesterday, so I everything is pretty fresh in my mind right now.

As you can see from your own video, it's very hard to leave a defender behind after you've successfully dribbled past him. It's like, you never really beat him. They recover way too quickly and catch up again, so you can hardly ever take on 1, 2 or 3 defenders and really leave them for dead. Like Messi does in real life. Because in real life, it is not hard to recover that quickly and catch up with the same player that has just skinned you and be right there with him again to take the ball from him.

In PES 2013, the extension of moves (the radius) is a little shorter, a player like Messi or Hazard, seem to keep the ball closer to their feet and when you dribble a rival, but there's another one close enough, you can beat the next one too if you time it right because of that close control (which doesn't require to press any other button, just by using the left stick). And, of course, when necessary you can sprint so that you can actually leave behind both of the defenders you've just dribbled away from.

After watching your video a couple more times, I can see that even though you know exactly what are the right combinations and how to time it right (and you get a lot of realistic animations out of that), you (and me, and everybody else) are always moving in what I can only describe as "L-shapes". It's very hard to run in a straight line, or in a diagonal line and wrong-foot a defender, leave him behind, then another one... and, obviously don't even think about a 3rd one.

Am I explaining it right? Does it make sense?.
 
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@Rodchenko
Didn’t touch R2. Just dummy shots and double tapping sprint. It was suggested earlier that dribbling without using skills isn’t as good as it has been. Which is cool, everyone has their own preferences, so to argue my point I wanted to make a comparison video without using any skills and ask what do people believe is missing in regards to dribbling in the newer games? Because personally I just don’t see it.

@PRO_TOO
Sorry mate, what I meant was, is it bad that information screens pop up? They only pop up once. Plus people play these games for years without realising certain co trolls are even in the game :D
 
I agree with @PRO_TOO on some of the dribbling.
Not disagreeing with @OBH on the beauty of Pes dribbling (for me Pes 18)

We're not really being able to do a defender in properly,they recover way to fast imo.
This is what I want,if I'm controlling a too three player
 
OBH said:
@Rodchenko
Didn’t touch R2. Just dummy shots and double tapping sprint. It was suggested earlier that dribbling without using skills isn’t as good as it has been. Which is cool, everyone has their own preferences, so to argue my point I wanted to make a comparison video without using any skills and ask what do people believe is missing in regards to dribbling in the newer games? Because personally I just don’t see it.

@PRO_TOO
Sorry mate, what I meant was, is it bad that information screens pop up? They only pop up once. Plus people play these games for years without realising certain co trolls are even in the game :D
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Alright. Got It.

Well, it starts here!
Tell me please, what could be the incentive to give users that kind of information?
Controls layout is in the games menu/flyer inside the box. It should be to the player to find out how long you press a button, what button combos do what and what’s the outcome of all that, imo!!

Imagine a battlefield (or whatever shooter) where you are giving instructions like what’s the best rhythm/timing for burst fire or how many degrees you have to tilt your stick to compensate recoil (next to the regular control layout menu)!

You get my thought?!

Edit:
Tmw is a holiday here in GER. So, cheers for the beers, big ears!!! :BYE: :BEER:

DRINK RESPONSIBLY!!!
 
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@OBH, or anyone else for that matter. Anyone who likes to dribble and got his head around it.
From all the clips I see - speed bursts, dummy shots and R2 can give you more or less complete dribbling.

Off topic idiot question - whats L1 (close dribbling) used for?
Like I said before - im spending most of my time on improving dribbling recently and Im yet to find a proper use, or combo with L1.

When (and are you) using it?
 
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Chuny said:
There are some small animations there that are very natural and, if they happened more often, or if there was a way to manually trigger them, it would make the whole system soooo much better.

For example, at exactly 0:37, that animation looked so lifelike. A different one, but still very nice, at 0:54. Nice and smooth. And, at 1:28... GREAT ONE!

I dislike animations and moves like the ones that can be seen at: 0:24 and 0:29.
Unfortunately, for me anyways, those kind of animations are the ones I see happen the most when I'm holding the controller myself. Those weird moves. I don't know it feels weird to me, the way the legs move and the way Messi's torso is facing the other way.

As you can see from your own video, it's very hard to leave a defender behind after you've successfully dribbled past him. It's like, you never really beat him. They recover way too quickly and catch up again, so you can hardly ever take on 1, 2 or 3 defenders and really leave them for dead. Like Messi does in real life. Because in real life, it is not hard to recover that quickly and catch up with the same player that has just skinned you and be right there with him again to take the ball from him.

In PES 2013, the extension of moves (the radius) is a little shorter, a player like Messi or Hazard, seem to keep the ball closer to their feet and when you dribble a rival, but there's another one close enough, you can beat the next one too if you time it right because of that close control (which doesn't require to press any other button, just by using the left stick). And, of course, when necessary you can sprint so that you can actually leave behind both of the defenders you've just dribbled away from.

After watching your video a couple more times, I can see that even though you know exactly what are the right combinations and how to time it right (and you get a lot of realistic animations out of that), you (and me, and everybody else) are always moving in what I can only describe as "L-shapes". It's very hard to run in a straight line, or in a diagonal line and wrong-foot a defender, leave him behind, then another one... and, obviously don't even think about a 3rd one.

Am I explaining it right? Does it make sense?.
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You make perfect sense mate. And no problem making this, it's easier to explain things visually anyway!

So, firstly, you mentioned the animations at 0:37, 0:54 & 1:28 saying they look nice, but it would be better if they were manually triggered - but they're all manually triggered :)) The first two are done by simply double tapping sprint. The animation changes depending on various things; how far away you are from the defender, your dribbling stat, and the direction you aim (if you aim for the defender directly the player will attempt to nutmeg them). The last one is just a dummy shot, but as it's Messi he does a rapid 180-degree turn animation. I don't think there's as much 'randomness' to the animations as is perceived.

I'll be honest, I'm surprised you don't like the animation at 0:24, because isn't that same animation what the entire of 2013's dribbling in this video is? Just that over and over again but closer to the body?

I don't disagree that the defenders do recover very, very quickly. Though, personally, I believe this is due to the defending mechanics more so than the dribbling. Pressuring the ball is far more effective at winning the ball than actually sticking a foot out to make a tackle. If this was tweaked, then the defenders would stick their leg out more and be caught wrong-footed and off balance far more often.

Lastly (and I know you won't like this one), but whether you want to use skills or not, the fact remains that you a seriously limiting yourself by not using them. Even just the basic 'press left to drop a shoulder' can create a lot of room for yourself. It's not even just the tall players either; Messi, Hazard, etc all create huge amounts of space by little drops of the shoulder - which can be done by doing something as simple as tapping left on the right analog stick :)

@Emroth
L1 isn't close dribble. That's a FIFA thing :)) I've just looked at all the commands in case I've been missing something all this time! (though I do think PES could do with it, I don't like how R2 makes you face the goal whereas on FIFA you can walk slowly facing any direction)
 
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@OBH I've just slowed the video down to 0.5 and played that bit at 0:24 back again and yeah, definitely looks strange to me! I can't really find any resemblance with PES 2013 dribbling, bud!

I think it would be fantastic if those little shoulder drop moves introduced in PES 2018 were performed by holding L2 or something from a stading still position or while jogging or running. I don't feel I have a lot of control about when it gets triggered. I have been trying though for the past couple of days, but it seems to depend far too much on specific scenarios, circumstances and situations (such as the ones you mentioned above).

When I was playing PES 2013 yesterday, it was surprising for me to see that even playing against the AI on Professional was pretty hard for me. And dribbling past them wasn't that easy at all. Somehow the memory of it being a lot easier got stuck in the back of my mind for so long. It was still great as I remembered it, but not as easy.

Oh and it's not that I'm against performing or seeing skill moves. I appreciate 2 or 3 of them throughout a match. It's just that I don't think it should be the way to go in order to fool defenders. Those should be used more for cosmetic or aesthetics than to get results.
 
OBH said:
L1 isn't close dribble. That's a FIFA thing :)) I've just looked at all the commands in case I've been missing something all this time! (though I do think PES could do with it, I don't like how R2 makes you face the goal whereas on FIFA you can walk slowly facing any direction)
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Well that fucking explains it... :LOL:
Good thing that I called it idiot question from the get go, haha!
I could swear that players were changing the pace and moving slower, with the ball closer to their feet when I was pressing it..
You saved me few more days of trying to crack something uncrackable.. :LOL:
Thank you!
 
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Emroth said:
Well that fucking explains it... :LOL:
Good thing that I called it idiot question from the get go, haha!
I could swear that players were changing the pace and moving slower, with the ball closer to their feet when I was pressing it..
You saved me few more days of trying to crack something uncrackable.. :LOL:
Thank you!
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Don't give up so quickly. I also always had the feeling that L1 does something to the players while dribbling. Can't put my finger on it and perhaps it's placebo but I've used it in one or the other situation where I want a tight turn and it seems to make a difference.

Then again, OBH is the expert. The things he does with the left stick...;)
 
I only wanted to show differences between two PES games and this chat has taken a different turn than I'd planned :JAY:

For all it's faults in the way the game plays, I think some of the actual controls are better in FIFA. Being able to select an option that meant you sprinted at different speeds dependant on how long you held the button, while weird as hell at first, was amazing once you got used to it. I'd be all for PES trying something similar.

On the other hand, I think 'auto feint' absolutely has to go. Locking out skills depending on whether you have that selected or not is just stupid.
 
Watching USMNT last night and it reminded me of how players in PES can all glide/dribble just like Pulisic. The turning is super tight, and somehow the ball stays with them perfectly. Incredibly annoying. Judging from the videos of PES 2020, this seems to be the same case. Hopefully not, but I'm just not sure.
 
PRO_TOO said:
I’m not into player faces but I could get lost the first 50 seconds!!
Man, i’m so into replays and slo-mos!!

That ball, Regista, is growing on me!!

Btw: have the grass blades ever moved so well?!
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About Registas, Pirlo has to be there, He is the only one who can walk more meters than Messi does.
 
Emroth said:
Well that fucking explains it... :LOL:
Good thing that I called it idiot question from the get go, haha!
I could swear that players were changing the pace and moving slower, with the ball closer to their feet when I was pressing it..
You saved me few more days of trying to crack something uncrackable.. :LOL:
Thank you!
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Rodchenko said:
Don't give up so quickly. I also always had the feeling that L1 does something to the players while dribbling. Can't put my finger on it and perhaps it's placebo but I've used it in one or the other situation where I want a tight turn and it seems to make a difference.

Then again, OBH is the expert. The things he does with the left stick...;)
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There's a debate over on reddit right now about how holding the manual modifier (L2 by default) with Sprint (R1) makes dribbling smoother and closer. I'm undecided.

Incidentally, with this talk of 2013, one thing I would definitely like to see come back is the link feints from that game. I've never been any good at doing quarter circles of the right stick in the heat of battle, I'd love to set a few primed skills to the right stick directions (U,D,L,R).
 
Chuny said:
As you can see from your own video, it's very hard to leave a defender behind after you've successfully dribbled past him. It's like, you never really beat him. They recover way too quickly and catch up again, so you can hardly ever take on 1, 2 or 3 defenders and really leave them for dead. Like Messi does in real life. Because in real life, it is not hard to recover that quickly and catch up with the same player that has just skinned you and be right there with him again to take the ball from him.

In PES 2013, the extension of moves (the radius) is a little shorter, a player like Messi or Hazard, seem to keep the ball closer to their feet and when you dribble a rival, but there's another one close enough, you can beat the next one too if you time it right because of that close control (which doesn't require to press any other button, just by using the left stick). And, of course, when necessary you can sprint so that you can actually leave behind both of the defenders you've just dribbled away from.
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These points are absolutely spot on and is exactly how I feel about both Fifa and Pes. You are never really able to wrong foot someone while running in a straight/diagonal line because momentum and body weight are never represented well enough.

Defenders recover too well in these scenarios which is why "L shaped" dribbling or skill moves are the only real way to beat defenders
 
orangebard said:
There's a debate over on reddit right now about how holding the manual modifier (L2 by default) with Sprint (R1) makes dribbling smoother and closer. I'm undecided.

Incidentally, with this talk of 2013, one thing I would definitely like to see come back is the link feints from that game. I've never been any good at doing quarter circles of the right stick in the heat of battle, I'd love to set a few primed skills to the right stick directions (U,D,L,R).
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I felt the same way throughout the entire year! I'm glad more people are noticing the same thing, I thought I was just trying too hard to see things that aren't there.
L2 does something to the player with the ball.

P.S: Who else is going to watch Messi getting kicked out of the Copa America in just group stage tonight? I know y'all want that!

:BYE:
 
rockstrongo said:
We're not really being able to do a defender in properly,they recover way to fast imo.
This is what I want,if I'm controlling a too three player
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Yes. Also many of those moments would benefit from a momentum shift depending on the situation.

This is yet to be well represented in football videogames in my opinion: how a close control (demoralizing or deconcentrating the opposition) or a killer ball can shift the whole direction of a match, even when both teams are seemingly going through the motions.


 
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