eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

[klashman69]

That's absolutely true. But don't you think this is a shortcoming, and a lack of innovation from the devs? It's coincided with a change toward possession play and pressing in real life football, where the very best teams are incredibly effective at doing this. But in real life, we've had those same teams lose occasionally to different strategies. Surprising draws and upsets, e.g., when teams like Burnley beat teams like Manchester City. How do they do it? Not by outpassing the opposition, but by executing an effective gameplan that works with the strengths they do have.

Surely that's the scale up in difficulty a lot of people (myself included) want, and think is possible, not just more pass efficiency. Wouldn't it be amazing to play a Master League campaign that was genuinely immersive, because you went into a cup game at Stoke, and you were genuinely nervous because last time you played them in the league, they bullied your deft CBs off the ball and created poaching chances?

It would be nice if Dev's actually setup teams like they are in real life, no even need for the fluid formation i do, just a decent representation of real life. I get this experience usually with PES because i change the tactics but it should really come with the box.

 

[TheGoodOldDays]

Yes and no. I mean, sometimes I think they're just being polite especially when they're still at E3, appearing on the streams, etc. Barry from PES Universe, in his recent first impressions video, was mostly pretty positive, but he did mention there's still not enough fouls from the AI – I guess that would fall into your "but I was quite disappointed to still see X happening" category of statement.

I also think it's less a strategy to be invited back than just often having a very different set of priorities. Almost always the guys they invite to these events are online players, and the experience they get is LAN. So it will feel smoother, and they're excited about that. I expect they are in general not especially observant about AI issues. So they generally won't point them out as much, or if they notice them, won't think of them as that important.

Strategy was probably the wrong word, I'm talking more about unconscious bias, peer pressure, that kind of area. You could call it politeness, or diplomacy, but I'll always view people like that with more scepticism than someone who just gives it to me straight and simple. [Especially when they have such flaky track records.] Admittedly it's probably really hard when you are in that situation, I'm sure I'd struggle myself when you have to face and sit with the people you are criticising.

 

[Chuny]

They need a new engine, FOX isn't cutting it. the body's banging into each other and collision system just doesn't look right, outdated to Fifa in this part. How easy it is to pass though defenses when AI just moves around but makes no attempt to cut off passes. i think the pitch is to big, wish we could compare PES5 pitch size to 2020.

I don't think the Engine is the issue.
FOX, much like UNREAL, are rendering engines. What makes graphics look like they do.
It's like the link between the textures, the lighting and the animations.

A new engine wouldn't make up for the lack of developer's creativity or abilities.

 

[OBH]

They need a new engine, FOX isn't cutting it. the body's banging into each other and collision system just doesn't look right, outdated to Fifa in this part. How easy it is to pass though defenses when AI just moves around but makes no attempt to cut off passes. i think the pitch is to big, wish we could compare PES5 pitch size to 2020.

The pitch is too big????
You can already run the length of the pitch in about 4 seconds. Any smaller and it be like playing inside a matchbox.

 

[Chuny]

The pitch is too big????
You can already run the length of the pitch in about 4 seconds. Any smaller and it be like playing inside a matchbox.

Agreed.
In fact, I think the space between the sidelines and the box should be even wider.
From the corner flag to where the box line begins, it takes the player about 10 steps. I think it should be double that.

 

[Peter Withe]

@klashman69 @janguv

I don’t mean any offence I promise.

I’m talking about the faces of PES Universe, the sales men - Midnite Kid and True Brits. They’re shills and they’re out to make a dime.

 

[Jake87]

Pes universe impressions

Also true brits is not a shill. He does criticize the game

 

[klashman69]

@klashman69 @janguv

I don’t mean any offence I promise.

I’m talking about the faces of PES Universe, the sales men - Midnite Kid and True Brits. They’re shills and they’re out to make a dime.

I talk to these guys regularly, why do you keep insulting them as if they are just out for the money and nothing else, your way off man!

There is NO MONEY in PES right now, its simply not big enough for people to make anything, not even close we want to change that. Third rate FIFA youtubers with 10k plus make more than we do! I have seen PES Universe when it was nothing, simply a dream! Look at it now.. all a shared desire to make PES the best it can be.

 

[amartingil]

Guys watch at 5:44 the ultra realistic ball behavior (spin) after the control from Iniesta and right after the that how the ball behaves and spins after ronaldinho's touch. That's pure realism.
Pes 2020 ball is the best ball ever implemented in a soccer game.

This is the video with best quality i've seen so far. Nice to dive into ball physics. It seems it will be amazing...

 

[ezosk]

Personally, I cannot watch more than 20 seconds of gameplay because there are some issues that once I observe, I cannot ignore.
The first one is the visible lack of foot planting, the players slide and shift their bodies unnaturally.
The second one is the lack of 360 degrees movement. I believe there are maximum 8-16 directions in which the player with the ball can move, those are predefined lanes. The animation when changing lanes is the opposite of smooth, it basically looks like the player is locked into it.
It's easy to test this in pes 2018 and 2019, just try to walk the center field circle with the player that has the ball. You cannot. Once you observe this, the game is pretty much ruined. The same issue is clearly visible in pes 2020 videos.
Third issue, keepers animations, you already know about them.
Those things are so fundamental that I cannot accept the claim that pes has good gameplay. It gets the most basic mechanics wrong, and this is a conscious choice the developers have made in the last years. Clearly, it is not a technical limitation, pes 2014 had all those mechanics spot on at its time.
Honestly, I don't trust Konami's vision of football, regardless of the engine used for development.

 

[Chris Davies]

I talk to these guys regularly, why do you keep insulting them as if they are just out for the money and nothing else, your way off man!

There is NO MONEY in PES right now, its simply not big enough for people to make anything, not even close we want to change that. Third rate FIFA youtubers with 10k plus make more than we do! I have seen PES Universe when it was nothing, simply a dream! Look at it now.. all a shared desire to make PES the best it can be.

This is from the horse's mouth guys - let this be the last post on the subject.

Anything else that is about PES Universe or a post that mentions the word "shill", I'm just going to delete.

Let's get back to PES 2020 please.

The second one is the lack of 360 degrees movement. I believe there are maximum 8-16 directions in which the player with the ball can move, those are predefined lanes [and] it's easy to test this in pes 2018 and 2019, just try to walk the center field circle with the player that has the ball. You cannot. Once you observe this, the game is pretty much ruined.

That's really interesting. I've always assumed that as PES breaks away from those rails in terms of movement, the AI has more variables to consider than before and that's why it has become more generic and familiar, to cope with the human player's extra movement - I hadn't noticed it was still as "locked down" as this.

Frankly, if full 360 movement *did* mean the AI took a step backwards because of how many millions more calculations and predictions would have to be done, I wouldn't be too disappointed if it never happened...

But it must be a lynchpin of the engine they use. Once the switch to Unreal happens I imagine this might change.

 

[OBH]

That's really interesting. I've always assumed that as PES breaks away from those rails in terms of movement, the AI has more variables to consider than before and that's why it has become more generic and familiar, to cope with the human player's extra movement - I hadn't noticed it was still as "locked down" as this.

It is still 'on rails' but there's not a chance in hell it's only 8 directions as suggested. You'd know immediately if that was the case because it would still feel like PES 5 if it was.

Personally, I cannot watch more than 20 seconds of gameplay because there are some issues that once I observe, I cannot ignore.
The first one is the visible lack of foot planting, the players slide and shift their bodies unnaturally.

Really???? You can’t watch more than 20 seconds because of that??

Oh my god, next you’ll be unhappy Messi’s bollocks aren’t flapping in the wind correctly.

 

[Chris Davies]

Really???? You can’t watch more than 20 seconds because of that??

Oh my god, next you’ll be unhappy Messi’s bollocks aren’t flapping in the wind correctly.

Let's not start trolling, I don't think that's a fair comparison - it's a bit shit watching a replay and realising (for example) a defender slid / *warped* into the perfect place to block your shot.

 

[loco]

It seems the game will be going the "2K" way, with new abilities and special abilities that will activate in certain situations giving players stats boosts.

 

[OBH]

Let's not start trolling, I don't think that's a fair comparison - it's a bit shit watching a replay and realising (for example) a defender slid / *warped* into the perfect place to block your shot.

Fair one, sorry about the trolling.

I'd love to see a 2020 clip where the defender has full on warped though.

It seems the game will be going the "2K" way, with new abilities and special abilities that will activate in certain situations giving players stats boosts.

Out of interest mate, do you think that's a good thing?
I like it personally, the aggression one anyway. If it means Ramos has more chance of getting red cards then I'm all for it.

 

[Chris Davies]

It seems the game will be going the "2K" way, with new abilities and special abilities that will activate in certain situations giving players stats boosts.

Jesus, as it stands I don't see how those boosts would matter! If you have an attribute of e.g. 90 for through-balls, what's a "through-ball boost" going to do?

 

[OBH]

Jesus, as it stands I don't see how those boosts would matter! If you have an attribute of e.g. 90 for through-balls, what's a "through-ball boost" going to do?

As a guess it would probably be situational - less errors if off balance / not looking etc.

I swear Fifa did the same thing once upon a time.

 

[Ameppe]

Frankly, if full 360 movement *did* mean the AI took a step backwards because of how many millions more calculations and predictions would have to be done, I wouldn't be too disappointed if it never happened...

Isn't Fifa full 360° too? And how come AI in Fifa is actually competent?

 

[Chris Davies]

It seems the game will be going the "2K" way, with new abilities and special abilities that will activate in certain situations giving players stats boosts.

I don't play any 2K games so I don't think I know enough about this actually - is the 2K stuff online only?

Isn't Fifa full 360° too? And how come AI in Fifa is actually competent?

Not the thread for it but just briefly, most on here (including myself) would say it's far too easy, and I think that's because there's just too much for the AI to "think" about - even when it cheats (although nowhere near PES-scale IMO) it doesn't help it out enough.

 

[Bond!JamesBond!]

Well, I didnt say nothing because some fellas was saying that we are haters and trolls and stuff but, I dont like what I saw as well.

Goalkeeper diving beyond the goal post was a bucket of cold water on my head.

They really dont understand how a goakeeper can guard a goal that size. They dont understand why a pro football player miss the target many times. They cant figure why football matches dont end with large score lines all the time. Thats why they made goakeepers diving like this and shots tragetories so limited .

They dont know the sport basics.

this is another thing old PES does better, the goalie. It's 2019 and there is no excuse for a unrealistic diving range from the goalie. Being kind, it's shitty work.

 

[Alx1234]

It seems the game will be going the "2K" way, with new abilities and special abilities that will activate in certain situations giving players stats boosts.

Situation : PES 2020 release

Abilities activated :

Aggression - high if you buy; low if you don't

Tight possession - of past PES versions

Through ball - more real-life throughballs [ instead of efootball throughballs ]

Long shot - that PES 2021 will be special

 

[Alx1234]

Hilarious man but kabaddi is a very tough game, no room for fatigue.
Pure greediness from konami about the price. As an Asian neighbour and business tie ups they fully know India and its economy here 40:60 rich is to poor. If they are catering those 40 then they are really poor in maths because mainly they like cricket so chances are 5 out of 40 and if they buy then it will be fifa( personally I know many ). As football is a game for poor and average in India the price 1999 was enough so that one can save there pocket money for whole year and it can be done. India nowadays is a huge platform if used wisely for marketing even EA sports have distributers here. Blunders from konami Rs.3902 on a 2019 V2. Pure greediness, many guys would have loved to buy it but will restrain from it. Shame.

imagine if all of india played MyClub.

pretty sure all the ice caps would melt before the first weekly agent was released.


on a serious note though - even if the proportions of rich to poor were as you say, 1. the population numbers are large (hence the numbers of wealthy is large) and 2. the rich tend to be mega-rich (and the poor are mega-poor)

I'm not sure how much konami make from the eastern countries but their direction to include leagues from that side of the world makes me think it could be heftier than we think. Hence, PES 2020's price tag.

 

[loco]

Fair one, sorry about the trolling.

I'd love to see a 2020 clip where the defender has full on warped though.


Out of interest mate, do you think that's a good thing?
I like it personally, the aggression one anyway. If it means Ramos has more chance of getting red cards then I'm all for it.

The aggression one and tight dribbling one make sense, as for the others the question is: to what degree will human and CPU players will be able to exploit these? It all comes down at how the game will balance out these boost with other abilities (speed, dribbling, physical contact, body control, etc.)

Like someone mentioned over at the forums, if you assign "The destroyer" playstyle to a CF, he will automatically be a master at tackles...hope this is not a similar case.

 

[loco]

I don't play any 2K games so I don't think I know enough about this actually - is the 2K stuff online only?

Speaking from my NBA 2K experience, it's online and offline. They are called player badges.

 

[janguv]

I'd love to see a 2020 clip where the defender has full on warped though.

Perhaps my PES 2019 demo clip can suffice?


I've never seen that in the full game though. And I think it shows that there were bugs back in the demo build they were still ironing out for release (and plenty that never got ironed out...). That brings me onto what I think about some of the sliding we're seeing now – I think it's an alpha, early build. Couple of months old, I reckon. It's why they've been so hesitant to show full footage, and we've barely seen anything outside of the E3 streams.

 

[Chuny]

I just hope we can play real sportsmanlike football in PES 2020.....

 

[Chilleverest]

Ehh ! I don't get the fuss about the ball physics. Except for few occasions (which do look brilliant), the way they ping pass with accurate drive even 15-20 yards is ridiculous. I'm sure most of you have played football seriously once in your life and know already how hard it is to keep the ball down on long grounded passes, especially when passing first time. Mainly, this video being the culprit.

I have only seen handful of players (Erikesen, Kroos, Özil) pull off such pass with precise weight without the ball leaving the ground, and that too happens handful of times per match. Not saying the ball doesnt bobble at all, but as of now, everyone can pull of such world class pass, almost all of the players. It still looks like bowling ball rolling along the grass pitch and its just offputting.

 

[PES94]

Ehh ! I don't get the fuss about the ball physics. Except for few occasions (which do look brilliant), the way they ping pass with accurate drive even 15-20 yards is ridiculous. I'm sure most of you have played football seriously once in your life and know already how hard it is to keep the ball down on long grounded passes, especially when passing first time. Mainly, this video being the culprit.

I have only seen handful of players (Erikesen, Kroos, Özil) pull off such pass with precise weight without the ball leaving the ground, and that too happens handful of times per match. Not saying the ball doesnt bobble at all, but as of now, everyone can pull of such world class pass, almost all of the players. It still looks like bowling ball rolling along the grass pitch and its just offputting.

Wow the graphics looks so clean in that video. Honestly good job on their part.

 

[Emroth]

Those "special abilities" were there for a while now, they are just adding more.
You had all them in skill training. Some of them were passive and just activated in certain situations, for example - player was more likely to get fouled when on the ball.

Aggression must be there as a result of this new deliberate fouls system.
This and the rest is probably an attempt to get some AI player ID. Im all for it.
Anything that adds some sort of individuality is a plus.

 

[loco]

Aggression must be there as a result of this new deliberate fouls system.

Hopefully that also means more fouls by the CPU.