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eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

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Chuny said:
I am yet to see a player dribble another one without the use of the trick stick.
I mean a basic, normal, dribble situation either running or sprinting with the ball.
It's been going on forever. How can they not represent one of the most basic things in football and one of the fundamentally great things PES used to have until 2014.
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Ah, the art of wrong-footing and outsmarting players.
 
@Chuny

Just saw your video and that's different to what I posted, so I definately misunderstood your first post.
What I meant was Suarez bursting away from the defender with a little speed burst on his first touch at around 23.13.

I guess this with Messi from 2018 is closer to what you mean?:
 
Lons said:
Mr. Bhatti said that they listen community and we have in Pes 2020 realistic angele camera. Its not true because community wanted full customize camera in Pes 2020.
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I think that MidniteKid said that you can change zoom and height of the new camera in his 20-something minute video.
 
Chuny said:
Exactly!
I'm talking about something so simple and yet important, overlooked for 6 years in a row.

This:




Click to expand...

I’m really confused sorry.
What’s going on in these clips that has been overlooked for 6 years since?

We’re talking about dribbling past players without skills? I thought the whole point in changing skills this year is because they were almost completely redundant previously, and it was far easier to dribble past players without them?
 
Bonano said:
@Chuny

Just saw your video and that's different to what I posted, so I definately misunderstood your first post.
What I meant was Suarez bursting away from the defender with a little speed burst on his first touch at around 23.13.

I guess this with Messi from 2018 is closer to what you mean?:
Click to expand...



Yes, something like that is closer. But in 2018 I never quite felt in control of the dribbling "animation" or moves my players performed. Whilst in PES 2013 I knew exactly how to take full advantage of a good dribbler. It was just perfect.
I guess I sound like a broken record saying this over and over every year but I just can't come to grips with the fact I'll probably never get to see a game with such amazing dribbling in the modern era.
 
OBH said:
I’m really confused sorry.
What’s going on in these clips that has been overlooked for 6 years since?

We’re talking about dribbling past players without skills? I thought the whole point in changing skills this year is because they were almost completely redundant previously, and it was far easier to dribble past players without them?
Click to expand...

Hmm. Well, I thought the whole point was very very different from what you understood mate.
I think they decided to redesign the skill moves that you can perform using the TRICKS STICK (right stick). Not the dribbling mechanics, contextual dribbling, etc.
 
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I hear you Chuny but personally I think the dribbling is actually better now (espacially how it was in 2018) because I feel there's more inertia and contextuality to the dribbling, particularely with the left stick dribbling where you can do little body feints to wrong foot defenders.

To me, the video you posted, and the way I remember it from PES 2-6, it was a bit too arcadey for my liking (loved the games in general though).
 
Bonano said:
I hear you Chuny but personally I think the dribbling is actually better now (espacially how it was in 2018) because I feel there's more inertia and contextuality to the dribbling, particularely with the left stick dribbling where you can do little body feints to wrong foot defenders.

To me, the video you posted, and the way I remember it from PES 2-6, it was a bit too arcadey for my liking (loved the games in general though).
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Oh well...
Then it might just be my inability to learn how to do it.
But I've tried to find PES 2019 footage on Youtube to see if it was even possible, and I haven't been able to find anything remotely similar to what I posted above from PES 2013.

In PES 2019 I can't seem to be able to dribble past 1, 2 and even 3 defender with any player the way I could do it in PES 2013 (and I couldn't get away with it EVERY time, but when I timed it right, it felt awesome).
 
Chuny said:
Hmm. Well, I thought the whole point was very very different from what you understood mate.
I think they decided to redesign the skill moves that you can perform using the TRICKS STICK (right stick). Not the dribbling mechanics, contextual dribbling, etc.
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My mistake. Misunderstood :))

So regarding just the mechanics then, I've not seen anyone even attempt a dribble like that in these E3 clips? Not properly anyway. So couldn't that just be the guy with the controller more than anything?

Plus there are very, very few players besides Messi capable of such close dribbling anyway? Bar Robben I can't think of anyone who gets by 4/5 players without so much as a step over.

Recently it's been all about timing the triple tap. By far the most effective way to dribble past anyone.
 
Chuny said:
Hmm. Well, I thought the whole point was very very different from what you understood mate.
I think they decided to redesign the skill moves that you can perform using the TRICKS STICK (right stick). Not the dribbling mechanics, contextual dribbling, etc.
Click to expand...
I've been playing a lot of PES 2017 this week, really enjoying it - but this is one area that definitely sticks out like a sore thumb. You have to pass around players to beat them - I can't recall (possibly ever in a modern PES game) dribbling past a defender and getting through to a 1-on-1 with the goalkeeper.

Saying that, A) I'm trying to do this just with the left stick, and B) the Premier League defender stats I saw a while ago suggest that defenders very rarely get beaten by a dribble (lots of sports presenters over here keep repeating that not a single player dribbled past Van Dijk all season). So perhaps it's a good balance (even though I don't feel it is, just playing devil's advocate really)!
 
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Chris Davies said:
I saw a while ago suggest that defenders very rarely get beaten by a dribble (lots of sports presenters over here keep repeating that not a single player dribbled past Van Dijk all season). So perhaps it's a good balance (even though I don't feel it is, just playing devil's advocate really)!
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64 games :SHOCK: Only ONE player has dribbled past him since he went to Liverpool.

I'm still trying to think of anyone else besides Messi who can beat so many players without needing to do any skills...
 
OBH said:
My mistake. Misunderstood :))

So regarding just the mechanics then, I've not seen anyone even attempt a dribble like that in these E3 clips? Not properly anyway. So couldn't that just be the guy with the controller more than anything?

Plus there are very, very few players besides Messi capable of such close dribbling anyway? Bar Robben I can't think of anyone who gets by 4/5 players without so much as a step over.

Recently it's been all about timing the triple tap. By far the most effective way to dribble past anyone.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I mean it could be just that.
But considering I tried to do it myself a thousand times in PES 2019, without any success, I think it's not about the guys holding the controller at E3 but in fact the non-existent way to do it. If I couldn't do it in PES 2019 and no one has done it at E3 when trying PES 2020, it must be because they haven't even worked in that area.
I couldn't care less about the new skill moves they shows in the Iniesta trailer. I don't use that. I want to be able to do what you see Hazard, Messi, Sterling, David Silva, Bernardo Silva, Sane, etc do on a regular basis. Which is nothing but simple "snake-like" type of moves to dribbling, zigzag, using different pace and speed, adjusting to tight spaces, depending on the distance to the next defender.

Chris Davies said:
I've been playing a lot of PES 2017 this week, really enjoying it - but this is one area that definitely sticks out like a sore thumb. You have to pass around players to beat them - I can't recall (possibly ever in a modern PES game) dribbling past a defender and getting through to a 1-on-1 with the goalkeeper.

Saying that, A) I'm trying to do this just with the left stick, and B) the Premier League defender stats I saw a while ago suggest that defenders very rarely get beaten by a dribble (lots of sports presenters over here keep repeating that not a single player dribbled past Van Dijk all season). So perhaps it's a good balance (even though I don't feel it is, just playing devil's advocate really)!
Click to expand...

Exactly that, Chris.
 
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Chuny said:
Yes, something like that is closer. But in 2018 I never quite felt in control of the dribbling "animation" or moves my players performed. Whilst in PES 2013 I knew exactly how to take full advantage of a good dribbler. It was just perfect.
I guess I sound like a broken record saying this over and over every year but I just can't come to grips with the fact I'll probably never get to see a game with such amazing dribbling in the modern era.
Click to expand...
Same here,but moving down to Reg difficulty I've found dribbling really good in 18,you'll get space for it,plus no laser guided defenders.
I find dribbling really good in 18 (finally)
 
OBH said:
64 games :SHOCK: Only ONE player has dribbled past him since he went to Liverpool.

I'm still trying to think of anyone else besides Messi who can beat so many players without needing to do any skills...
Click to expand...

Hazard.
Neymar.
Sterling.
Sane.
Both Manchester City's Silvas.
Park Ji Sung (great dribbler!)
Lucas Moura!
Salah!

Damn... I could go on and on...

Even from South America. Just yesterday, when watching the first Copa America game (Brasil - Bolvia), I saw many many plays in which Brasilian players got away by dribbling and using different pace. Richarlison, Neres, Everton...
 
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Chuny said:
Oh well...
Then it might just be my inability to learn how to do it.
But I've tried to find PES 2019 footage on Youtube to see if it was even possible, and I haven't been able to find anything remotely similar to what I posted above from PES 2013.

In PES 2019 I can't seem to be able to dribble past 1, 2 and even 3 defender with any player the way I could do it in PES 2013 (and I couldn't get away with it EVERY time, but when I timed it right, it felt awesome).
Click to expand...
My cousin always beat my defenders with left stick dribblingw with Messi moslty but he can do it with slower players too. I suck at defense tbh so it might be one reason. . I can do it to him too but it's very rare. i feel like I'm just lucky if I'm able to do it to him. There's a certain kind of timing you need to pull it off.


Now that we are using 3 star teams, It's ery rare that he's able to do it to me.

The last time that I can remember that I'm decent at left stick driblling is pes15, I'm still using keyboard at that time. hehe
 
Elanimator said:
My cousin always beat my defenders with left stick dribblingw with Messi moslty but he can do it with slower players too. I suck at defense tbh so it might be one reason. . I can do it to him too but it's very rare. i feel like I'm just lucky if I'm able to do it to him. There's a certain kind of timing you need to pull it off.


Now that we are using 3 star teams, It's ery rare that he's able to do it to me.

The last time that I can remember that I'm decent at left stick driblling is pes15, I'm still using keyboard at that time. hehe
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Are you talking about Human VS Human?
Because if you are, then that's a totally different story.
 
Chuny said:
Are you talking about Human VS Human?
Because if you are, then that's a totally different story.
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yes. sorry i didn't understood your post properly as I'm on mobile. Yes Ai is very hard to beat with dribble. They know your moves.
 
Chris Davies said:
I've been playing a lot of PES 2017 this week, really enjoying it - but this is one area that definitely sticks out like a sore thumb. You have to pass around players to beat them - I can't recall (possibly ever in a modern PES game) dribbling past a defender and getting through to a 1-on-1 with the goalkeeper.
Click to expand...
I have to jump in here, as I have the opposite experience. The only problem is - i dont know how Im doing it...

Most recent was only the other day. I was playing Pes17 and I absolutely love speed bursts in it. Out of all 3 recent games - only 17 gives me some sort of "speed satisfaction". So quite often Im using double sprint tap and enjoying the show.
Sometimes, somehow, Im able to "close dribble" on a full speed-whack.
I honestly dont know how am I doing it and what triggers it, cant crack it.. is it some player skill, or am I pressing something in the heart of battle? Dont know.
Next time it happens ill try to record it.
 
gabe.paul.logan said:
What wasnt really clear for me about the new dribbling system

- is it became more manual right with the right stick? less contextual. thats reasonable so you can dribble in an esport game. thats fair
- but still the better dribblers dribble better they say? only the control scheme changed?

Thats just doesnt add up to me. I would like to know if we lost more player inertia again to appeal to the efootball/manual stuff.


@as for Matchday. I think its pretty cool stuff, just hope that minor derbies gets into Matchday. That would help to vary the opponents monthly/weekly not to play v Barca/Real all the time.

@efootball title hints at better servers through sponsorship?
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About the new finesse dribbling:
I can imagine how it will work after viewing some moves in gameplays.
Pushing the right stick the player will do a small instant touch to the direction you've marked.
The move will be instantly because the player will remain facing the same direction, and he won't loose time turning his body.

In combination with left stick touches and sprint button, you will be able to dribble like this video:


About inertia:
PR and playtesters said that there is a huge sense of weight in PES 2020, I think we don't have to worry about that, at least, until demo. Maybe after it, a crying casual wave could change some things.
 
Elanimator said:
yes. sorry i didn't understood your post properly as I'm on mobile. Yes Ai is very hard to beat with dribble. They know your moves.
Click to expand...

Yeah, and that's when the dribbling mechanics come into play. Because they don't help at all.
Eversince PES 2014, the haven't changed this big area of the game much or at all. So, the AI can predict your moves most of the time, and since there's no weapon against it and the whole dribbling system is rudimentary and resource-less, all you can do is turn around and try to go the other way, or use the double-tap on the sprint button to try to get the ball away from the defender, or....... use the tricks stick, which is not my thing.
 
People saying you can't dribble past players in PES 2019, using only the left stick – two questions:
  • Are you excluding R1 and R2 from this?
  • Are you allowing the left-stick flicks they introduced a couple games back now, or do you just mean holding the left stick in a direction and moving it to another direction, with the ball?
On the latter point, I love the flick effects. It allows you to ever so slightly shift your weight and sell a defender. If you don't use it, try it out: on the ball, quickly flick left or right, let the stick settle in the middle and from there hold it out to the opposite direction, or at an angle. You'll get used to how it works. But it's like a tiny gambetta feint.

When you mix in well-timed bursts of pace and R2 dragbacks (or drags across, if they've got the step-on skill card), you can boss whole defences without using the right stick. Though, I do love a few right-stick skills thrown into the mix as well.
 
amartingil said:
About the new finesse dribbling:
I can imagine how it will work after viewing some moves in gameplays.
Pushing the right stick the player will do a small instant touch to the direction you've marked.
The move will be instantly because the player will remain facing the same direction, and he won't loose time turning his body.

In combination with left stick touches and sprint button, you will be able to dribble like this video:


About inertia:
PR and playtesters said that there is a huge sense of weight in PES 2020, I think we don't have to worry about that, at least, until demo. Maybe after it, a crying casual wave could change some things.
Click to expand...


Yeah sure, but what you're showing me in that video are skill moves. Not dribbling, mate.
Sorry, but it still doesn't come close or relates to the videos I posted!
 
janguv said:
People saying you can't dribble past players in PES 2019, using only the left stick – two questions:

  • Are you excluding R1 and R2 from this?
    Are you allowing the left-stick flicks they introduced a couple games back now, or do you just mean holding the left stick in a direction and moving it to another direction, with the ball?
On the latter point, I love the flick effects. It allows you to ever so slightly shift your weight and sell a defender. If you don't use it, try it out: on the ball, quickly flick left or right, let the stick settle in the middle and from there hold it out to the opposite direction, or at an angle. You'll get used to how it works. But it's like a tiny gambetta feint.

When you mix in well-timed bursts of pace and R2 dragbacks (or drags across, if they've got the step-on skill card), you can boss whole defences without using the right stick. Though, I do love a few right-stick skills thrown into the mix as well.
Click to expand...

Please, pretty-please, can you record a video of you doing what you describe a couple of times in a game?
I would really love to see that and maybe learn from you.

Like I said, it might just be down to me being really bad at PES after PES 2013?...
 
Chuny said:
Yeah sure, but what you're showing me in that video are skill moves. Not dribbling, mate.
Sorry, but it still doesn't come close or relates to the videos I posted!
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Isn't the line between a skill move and a piece of dribbling somewhat blurry though? We're inclined to sharpen it because there are clearer cases of complex/flashy skills and more basic ones, and computer games have solidified that separation artificially. When you break down dribbling in real life, it's a series of basic skills compiled into a seamless movement. It doesn't stop becoming dribbling when more complex components are thrown into that stream.

So the idea of the new finesse system – from what I understand of it – looks to be bridging the artificial distinction that gaming has formerly encouraged, between "skills" and "dribbling". There's a huge grey area where deft touches, subtle drags of the ball, shifting of weight, use of momentum, etc. all combine to create the effect of a dribble past a player. I'm ecstatic at the possibility of PES incorporating a realistic recreation of that – if it pans out!
 
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