eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

[Lobbedball]

PES 2019 isn't perfect but it is a very good football game i have enjoyed when i have played it this year although work and career has come first for me.

As for the place being toxic, i think the biggest problem here is the discussions here are very much being left in the past. I honestly think many old timers here don't know what they want anymore. I think someone mentioned PES 2008 again, that game is almost 12 years ago, that game came about before online was even a substantial thing, before online went mainstream. Back then gameplay was king and its why PES was the king, now gameplay isn't even a 2nd or 3rd factor no more. Licences and online modes come first and second! The world has changed and moved on and this place the discussion is very, very much still stuck in the past. This place has gone from a influential group to a minority and now it's literally a handful of people.

Back then was twitter even online? Now sadly twitter is the home for PES feedback and discussion, not here sadly, we need to wake up and realise that. I mean in terms of discussions you have reddit also.

I spoke to Lami about this years ago and he was concerned that Evo Web wasn't what it could be and his concerns are being realised here i feel, Evo web is good for our patching and modding section and this discussion forum has completely lost any weight or influence whatsoever on PES itself. This place has a mentallity where one person is unhappy and makes constant noise about the game being bad and gets really annoyed if someone disagrees with him.

People 10-15 years ago used to have to come to great forums like this to discuss PES, uploading anything was a pain 10-15 years ago hence why discussion forums were so big. Now this place is to find patches really and the discussion holds little to no water. since you have twitter and streamers where people can see things for themselves with ease and discuss things on live chats.

Football also like i have said is a totally different game compared to anything pre 2006-07. PES 2019 represents the modern game so well. The game is fast now and sadly sanitised to the point you cant tackle like before. Sadly we are in an era of athletes over artists like before.

These days even if the gameplay was perfection and all the modes where staked i'd still have issues picking teams to use becuase i find modern football rubbish. The world of football is not the same anymore and i feel that people here doesn't seem to get that.

basically what does your whole comment help with?, we are trying hard to make the game better, to ask the people at the helm to fix the issues with the game? if u are happy with what u have as an AI to play against and the no variation in shooting then good for you, but this is not the game we want , most of the PES community that knows how PES was and how it should be , they won t accept the game as it is now, we are in 2019 and still the engine has limitations that are hampering the game from progressing, so i don t think ur comment helped much

 

[Chris Davies]

Peeps,those were the past which were brilliant old days and we do cherish them but they are gone how much we try they will not come back simple days were over. Nowadays, all are complicated technology advanced

"Complicated" and "advanced" implies better, and more - not "worse in many ways".

In my opinion (and that's all it is), that's where we are. A worse simulation (with, in PES 2019, Fulham playing like Barcelona, stringing first-time pass after first-time pass together and moving like the best team in the world - and so does every other team).

You don't even have to compare PES 2019 to the older games to make that point.

That's why I will keep debating this point - and all of this is a discussion. Nobody is trolling anyone. But this opinion is as valid as any other opinion based on their experience, and thankfully (for my sanity) it seems I'm not alone in this opinion.

basically what does your whole comment help with?, we are trying hard to make the game better, to ask the people at the helm to fix the issues with the game?

Klash has said himself that he thinks PES 2019 is an amazing football game, and when I've posted videos of Fulham playing to a level of technical perfection they have never played to in their history, his response is that I wasn't pressing hard enough and leaving too much space. At that point, I realised we will just never see the same things.

That makes discussion very difficult - you're both looking at the same video and seeing an entirely different picture. But he is entitled to love the game, and to reject my opinion. Klash has done a lot for the PES community - his tactics files are a brilliant edition to the game.

I reject the old "this place is toxic" thing, though. Factually, it isn't. There are no trolls, no insults. We just critique here, and other places don't - you could say we hold the game to too high a standard, sure. But that's not the same thing.

 

[medhatithi]

Those who comment that it's a toxic place I beg to differ, absolutely not. It's the love for football and pes one shares and that person have full right if it's done within decorum. Yes some point I do think myself too the A.i. is one dimensional, player Id and team id they should be looked upon in 2020 and ml and no lie from konami like in 2019.

 

[Ameppe]

As for the place being toxic, i think the biggest problem here is the discussions here are very much being left in the past. I honestly think many old timers here don't know what they want anymore.

Actually, no. Many, included me, posted examples of what was good in past Pes and is missing in modern Pes. Many said that modes are completely neglected, many said that Master League needs to be improved a lot, many said AI need to be so much better.

This place has gone from a influential group to a minority and now it's literally a handful of people.

This is because Konami's idea of a football game completely changed, following the Fifa trends, instead of trying to be Pes.
The problem is here everyone doesn't want that. So, the fault this forum is not influential is entirely on Konami, we are the same as we were at Ps2 games.

Back then was twitter even online? Now sadly twitter is the home for PES feedback and discussion, not here sadly, we need to wake up and realise that. I mean in terms of discussions you have reddit also.

Another mistake by Pes communication team. There are plenty of other developers that directly respond to their fanbase on forums like these, because forums are still the best way to communicate with someone. So much more space to express our own opinions, so much more direct contact with the other members, and most important, forums are moderated and stupid people tend to be banned.

Twitter is totally inappropriate to gather feedback and discuss issues. Again, people here that are discussing the flaws of the game are doing the right thing, Konami trying to create hype with teasing tweets without ever engaging with discussions whenever there are very clear issues is wrong.

Football also like i have said is a totally different game compared to anything pre 2006-07. PES 2019 represents the modern game so well.

I didn't know that in 2019 football players are all AI robots controlling, shooting and passing like they are all Messi or Cristiano Ronaldo in their best days.
Pes never represented football very realistically, but you have to admit now, despite being closer than ever visually to the real thing, it's so far from reality that in comparison even Ps2 games were more grounded in football reality with misplaced passes, shots, random mistakes, unpredictability.

These days even if the gameplay was perfection and all the modes where staked i'd still have issues picking teams to use becuase i find modern football rubbish. The world of football is not the same anymore and i feel that people here doesn't seem to get that.

I think you are wrong with this mentality that "sadly football has changed, we can't have something better than what is in Pes 2019". The problem is not that football has changed, the problem is that Pes 2019 represents no kind of football, neither the one of the past, nor actual football.

It's a game with so much flaws it's an incoherent mess, it doesn't even follows its rules. Script, limitations, cheating AI, rules everything in Pes 2019. We should ask so much more than that in 2019.

So, in conclusion, it's not us that are wrong, it's them, Konami, who has lost its way, developing a mess of a game year after year.

 

[PESBUL]

Guys.. finally i found maybe REAL 60 fps and FULL HD gameplay video :

Blatant handball in there by Ronaldinho that goes unmentioned.

Yes, was a bit embarrassing to watch because they stop the match to show it closer " look look " and was looking bit buggy, but hey.. there is plenty of time for polishes.

 

[Madmac79]

Yes some point I do think myself too the A.i. is one dimensional, player Id and team id they should be looked upon in 2020 and ml and no lie from konami like in 2019.

Which is just what the majority of us are asking. Features that helps resemble the sport we are seeing.

As you said, team ID, player ID, a plausible AI, stats that truly matter. Variety. All stuff missing from 2019.

That's why I really can't understand how this whole "you live in another era" discussion or whatever equal one is still going on. We want a game with good fundamentals. It's purely coincidental that PS2 games, with the technology at hand, represented them in a much faithful way. What some of you are missing, is that the point still aren't PS2 (God bless them) games, the point are still the fundamentals.

And I'm sorry but I'll fight this point forever and ever. I'll never feel like I live in the past for wanting a game faithful to the field.

p.s. this place is as far from toxic as it can be, at least compared to the 99% of other discussion formats I know about football gaming.

 

[*aLe]

In the stream they said that you can also make that desperate attempt to hold the player from the back with pressing x two times.Like the Vidal gif we saw.But obviously the ref gonna punish you.

Aaaand this is something that could be done like 10 years ago.
Was it PES 2008 (sorry Klash for bringing it back into discussion) that had the "pull shirt" feature along with the "dive" one?
The "dive" one has stayed (probably in and out from one game to another) to the extent that I saw a couple of players booked for diving in PES 2017 (I think I've also uploaded a video here because I was kinda stunned) but the pulling thing has disappeared (along with many, many other things like alternate kits for goalkeepers).

OK, sorry if I'm being this disenchanted but that's how I feel now.
All these little details they're showcasing (shirts being able to move as they're a different entity from the body, shirt pulling, snow that was re-introduced last year, Italian and Spanish D2's) are things that we used to have and that have been taken away from us somewhere in the past.
And they're now trying to sell them as new features.

 

[Ameppe]

When i say Pes doesn't follows its rules i want to say that they establish players attributes, that's good, but those most of the time don't count at all.

When i played Pes 2019 demo i checked player attributes to see if they reflected what was happening on the pitch and i was always disappointed.

Players not reaching 80 shooting power scoring rockets, players with low rated attributes in short and long passing making passes like they have 85+.

Only attribute that is well represented is speed, but even then, most of the time there is the catch up bug and your attackers speed means nothing when CPU decides that defenders can catch you and stop you, even defenders that have no more than 70 top speed.

It's too unreliable as a system to enjoy it. Also, this reflect on Master League, since buying a player lately only reduces to buy a fast player. That's all. Passing stats, shooting stats, heading stats, body balance stats, those don't count as they are subject to the moments the game decides AI can ovveride them.

 

[*aLe]

I've never seen a goalkeeper jumping beyond the goal post...

In PES 2018 keepeers usually jump like half a metre above the bar, for that matter.
That's equally weird (if not even more). Quooting a thing I posted in the PES 2018 thread here:

you see better here what I mean, look at Romero jumping too high and with the "wrong" hand, you see it best at around the minute mark

He should've really used the other hand and should have jumped wider and lower IMO.

 

[Chris Davies]

When i played Pes 2019 demo i checked player attributes to see if they reflected what was happening on the pitch and i was always disappointed.

Players not reaching 80 shooting power scoring rockets, players with low rated attributes in short and long passing making passes like they have 85+.

This is why I was so sad to see:

I understand that, but where do you draw the line?

Because at the moment, there is no line, because there is no individuality whatsoever (other than through "player instructions" or whatever they're called).

In the PES 2018 video review I did, I edited Man City to have all 40 attributes and it made literally no difference - the game flowed in the same manner, the same tactics had the same success, the pass accuracy was still ~90% and the end-of-game stats were the same.

So implement a line, sure - even reduce down the attribute numbers, instead of 40-99 I wouldn't care if it was 1-20 - if it means they actually mean something.

 

[OBH]

In my opinion (and that's all it is), that's where we are. A worse simulation (with, in PES 2019, Fulham playing like Barcelona, stringing first-time pass after first-time pass together and moving like the best team in the world - and so does every other team).

I've just had a thought: what difficulty to you play PES on?

You can probably guess where I'm going to go with this, but for anyone who plays the game on Superstar/Legend, what do you expect the AI behavior to be like if not better in all things?

If I play Doom on hard, I expect to get shot and die a lot. A racing game and I expect the AI to be faster. When playing PES, what specific changes do you expect to see on the pitch?

This isn't a dig at anyone at all but a genuine question, because you can bet your house on that it won't be the same answer for everyone.

Then there you have it. Passing accuracy isn't as flawed as much as the ai defending. Bottom line, passing end to end in PES is to easy, that defender doesn't make the intelligent decision to slow up and pick off that ball. That's not what real footballers do.

But what about the rest of what I said?
I just broke it down for you why Rakitic making 10/10 passes is perfectly realistic and exactly what he does in real life and you chose to ignore that and focus entirely on the fact that the defender was a measly 2" away from intercepting the ball? Hell, it wasn't even the AI that failed to intercept it, but the player, so he probably didn't hold sprint and it was his own fault he didn't get it anyway.

Plus you say that isn't what defenders do? Have you ever seen Trippier try to defend?

I swear people see things through tinted glasses. I'm not discounting anyone's opinion, far from it. It's these differing opinions that create these discussions, but sometimes perspective is completely lost.

 

[Ameppe]

p.s. this place is as far from toxic as it can be, at least compared to the 99% of other discussion formats I know about football gaming.

Twitter is far more toxic, totally unrestrained toxicity and someone calls evo web toxic. At least here mods actually do something to keep the place as friendly as possible. I wish Konami's community manager would engage in discussions on here.
EA has an official forum and community managers close to developers actively try to answer to the community.

So implement a line, sure - even reduce down the attribute numbers, instead of 40-99 I wouldn't care if it was 1-20 - if it means they actually mean something.

Indeed, Iss Pro evolution had 1-20 stats but those stats were much more apparent ingame than the 40-99 stats in modern Pes.

 

[Chris Davies]

I've just had a thought: what difficulty to you play PES on? [...] This isn't a dig at anyone at all but a genuine question, because you can bet your house on that it won't be the same answer for everyone.

No that's fair enough, nobody's having digs at anyone, it's all good.

The problem with difficulty levels is that, in both football games at the moment, you end up "playing the difficulty level, not the team". If I play on Regular on PES 2019 - and my wider point is, it didn't used to be like this (even PES 2017, which is running on the same engine!) - every team plays to the same level. Fulham and Man City are an equal challenge.

Bump it to Superstar, and - actually, they're not an equal challenge, Fulham are the more difficult team because the engine balancing seems to go "poor teams will pass the ball around more", but there is no drop in pass success based on attributes, so suddenly Fulham are passing like Gods and they're unstoppable. Whereas Man City will leave many more open spaces as they bomb forward (but not in a realistic fashion) - but still, you stand no chance (which is what I want, of course - alongside poor teams playing like poor teams).

In PES 2017 (for all its faults, and yes, I can't play it now because of how much better 2019 feels on-the-ball), my ML matches really do vary dependent on the team I'm playing.

 

[manmachine]

Which is just what the majority of us are asking. Features that helps resemble the sport we are seeing.

As you said, team ID, player ID, a plausible AI, stats that truly matter. Variety. All stuff missing from 2019.

That's why I really can't understand how this whole "you live in another era" discussion or whatever equal one is still going on. We want a game with good fundamentals. It's purely coincidental that PS2 games, with the technology at hand, represented them in a much faithful way. What some of you are missing, is that the point still aren't PS2 (God bless them) games, the point are still the fundamentals.

I know, let me make a car analogy!
Formula 1 GP developed by Geoff Crammond in 1992 is a better racing sim than the most recent and flashy Need for Speed game. For the simple reason that it tried to be one, primitive graphics and all. We live in an age where EA/Konami are making the need for speed of footy games. Of course there's gonna be a divide. There are people who confuse primitive graphics and animations with arcade, but that's wrong IMHO. What is a sim if not simulating stuff/numbers under the hood? If team/player stats were better simulated in the past then it was a much better sim, regardless of the dated visual representation.

There is nothing wrong with people liking need for speed of course, but there is also nothing wrong with people wanting a more serious game. They are not stuck in the past, they just want a different game.

 

[*aLe]

EA has an official forum and community managers close to developers actively try to answer to the community.

Yeah. Chances are that if your complaint/concern isn't FUT related it doesn't even get looked into.

I mean, I opened a complaint during the FIFA 16 days because a strange thing would happen while playing against the AI in Career Mode and in friendly: if an AI-controlled player crossed, a defender of yours deflected it with his foot and your keeper tipped it over the bar there wouldn't be a corner but a PENALTY.
The deflection would count as a backpass and the keeper tipping it over the bar would then count as a handball.

It went unfixed for all the bloody lifecycle of FIFA 16, you know why? Because in FUT handballs weren't active if I recall correctly so FUT wasn't hit by that immersion-breaking bug.

I resorted to turning handballs off in the box, but I really feel I shouldn't have had to.

 

[FShas]

I dont post here very often but felt the need to support those being accused of creating a toxic environment.

Toxic was wenb in its final days. What I've read here since E3 has been by and large measured yet incisive criticism.

I can see some promise in pes 2020 videos, and I say that as someone who stopped playing pes 2019 on November (I've tried subsequent patches) and found it to be the most stale, lifeless pes game I can remember. It's better than pes 2016, but it's more bland in my opinion.

I played fifa 19 u till about December. It was enjoyable, far in advance of pes in virtually every aspect except that feel or immediacy that pes gives. Yet I still found it lacking by xmas.

As someone who played pes since pes 1 on ps2 and have never, ever thought fifa represented a better recreation of football, this was a salutary year for me.

Pes is stale, in virtually every respect. Even the animations, which are smooth and lifelike in appearence, feel lifeless under control.
The physics whilst appearing to approximate football give the impression when playing of being a series of animations, rather than independent physics. It's a trick. So much of this pes code is smoke and mirrors. After a few weeks, you can see the essential lie behind its construction. And it begins to feel stale buy October.
The shooting is lifeless and dull, there is zero sense of danger or risk to pressing shoot.
The absence of any error in pa1 is unforgivable. I believe it's to do with AI and physics limitations, another example of the smoke and mirrors behind this game (all games are smoke and mirrors but the best are based to some extent on something real. It feels like nothing is real in the pes coding base. You can see the seams in every part of it, especially when they add new features like the finesse dribble, you can see the engine straining to cope with a feature that it simply cannot accommodate).

I've seen it written often that people here dont know what they want. In fact, they know exactly what they want. It's what weve all wanted since pes 6. It's patently obvious. The idea that the community here has somehow argued itself over years into the past or indecision is nonsense.

We know what we want. We know the basic ingredients of what we want. Its self evident. The real of game of football is there as a constant reference. We understand technological limitations.

The idea that pes is catering to a different audience is also misguided. They're not catering to anyone much at all. Theess almost zero simulation of real physics, player abilities, limitations, team tactics, randomness. But then, theres also very little in that way of explosive, balls to walls fun either. Because the game is ponderous, on rails and predictable in the final third.

In any event, pes 2020 was always likely to be a stop gap. If theres a new engine next year and the game is still as mediocre as it is now (it's a decent football game, it just bears none of the DNA of pes, which even games like pes 2010-14 retained), then we'll know its time to go home.

 

[Peter Withe]

Griezmann face (new hair cut, face need scan)

Source : Adam Bhatti Twitter


Manchester and Juventus kits on France formation, now I understand why Konami don't show France during the live

Mbappé has a gray jersey but Adam confirm Ligue 1 are fully licenced in PES 2020 and for the future.

Ah good, the important stuff. Griezmann’s face and Pogba’s shoulders.

 

[Ameppe]

If anyone wants to see a fair and balanced high difficulty level, again, just go back playing Ps2 Pes.

With those games even at the highest level you had teams that were much more tactically intelligent, you couldn't find spaces at all,it was really an accomplishment to score against them.

That was not perfect either, but at least it was far more believable than 60 overall rated teams being boosted to 90+ to have artificial difficulty.

Yeah. Chances are that if your complaint/concern isn't FUT related it doesn't even get looked into.

You are probably right, but better than the one way communication coming from Konami, with fans raging at them and a wall at the other end that rebounds all the feedback with the usual "we'll let the team know your feedback".

 

[medhatithi]

El Diego the boss⚽️⚽️⚽️⚽️⚽️⚽️

All that glitter is not gold but please God this year be it the gold.

 

[PES94]

Some really cool stuff:

 

[Chris Davies]

Excuse my cynicism for a minute but players being able to communicate with us and vice versa in Master League is going to be full of LOL because...Konami.

You were so right:

What a response that first one is.

Imagine a manager saying "I want to see clean, sportsmanlike football".

The info panel on the left makes it sound like they really don't mean a lot. They keep talking about "YOUR story progression", which seems to suggest it doesn't affect the TEAM in any way.

The repeated use of "STORY" is also giving me nightmares that enabling this option turns the ML into The Journey (a non-unique set story)...

 

[medhatithi]

I think he got some point. It's like nowadays movie trailer to much exposure, where some part should be left secret, to catch the fans off guard.

 

[OBH]

No that's fair enough, nobody's having digs at anyone, it's all good.

Bump it to Superstar, and - actually, they're not an equal challenge, Fulham are the more difficult team because the engine balancing seems to go "poor teams will pass the ball around more", but there is no drop in pass success based on attributes, so suddenly Fulham are passing like Gods and they're unstoppable. Whereas Man City will leave many more open spaces as they bomb forward (but not in a realistic fashion) - but still, you stand no chance (which is what I want, of course - alongside poor teams playing like poor teams).

Have you played PES 2017 recently? I'll be honest, I can't remember ML that year. I ask because is this a definite fact that difficulty scaled better? Or just how you remember it? Again, I'm not doubting you in the slightest mate just wondering if you played it recently.

If you look at difficulty though you have to imagine it as various difficulty sliders, because really that's all that's really going on under the hood - AI passes will now be, I don't know, let's say 60% more success on Legend (well, more like 99% ).

So when you increase De Bruyne's pass rate by 60%, that's going to make very little noticeable difference as it was already so high to begin with, whereas someone like Phil Jones, who may as well pass the ball with his face for how well he can do it with his feet, will play like a totally different player.

@Ameppe has mentioned difficulty scaled better on the PS2, but wasn't that more to do with how the players moved? Using 70 rated players today is totally fine due to the increased field of movement, but back in the day it was more like controlling a fat bloke driving a bus than a professional athlete.

 

[Ameppe]

You were so right:

What a response that first one is.

Imagine a manager saying "I want to see clean, sportsmanlike football".

The info panel on the left makes it sound like they really don't mean a lot.

During one of the livestreams they said they influence the mood of the players. Idea is good, let's see how it's actually used and if it really does what they say. It wouldn't be the first time they give false informations (dynamic lighting comes to mind)

@Ameppe has mentioned difficulty scaled better on the PS2, but wasn't that more to do with how the players moved? Using 70 rated players today is totally fine due to the increased field of movement, but back in the day it was more like controlling a fat bloke driving a bus than a professional athlete.

I was saying that in Ps2 games at highest difficulty you didn't see very weak players controlled by CPU suddenly becoming top players, controlling, dribbling, shooting and passing like Messi or Iniesta. They were just a lot more tactically intelligent. If there was script, it was far less apparent and natural than it is now.

 

[mattmid]

I didn't bother watching any more but watch from 50 seconds when the highlights start until about 2:20. This is 'highlights' and check out just how many misplaced passes there are and these are the two stand out teams from the Premier League last season. This is the problem. It's not the 5-10yd midfield passes in space that of course are 90%+ completion for most players, it's the 90% completion in the final third for average Joe, that's the real problem.

 

[Chris Davies]

Have you played PES 2017 recently? I'll be honest, I can't remember ML that year. I ask because is this a definite fact that difficulty scaled better? Or just how you remember it?

I literally scored this goal and uploaded it to YouTube last week.

Yes, I've been hammering it recently after taking a break from football games and finding it to be the most modern package that retains the most core values of what I would call the original PES' vision. But because of how good 2019 feels on the ball, I just can't enjoy it long-term. It just doesn't "handle" as well.

This is what I mean when I say the technology and "advancements" just mean "taking stuff away", to me. The PES 2019 on-the-ball feel is amazing, but that's the only actual "advancement" in my opinion. If I could take that and put it in PES 2017, without doing anything else... I would be here bitching about the Master League and not the gameplay.

[...]So when you increase De Bruyne's pass rate by 60%, that's going to make very little noticeable difference as it was already so high to begin with, whereas someone like Phil Jones, who may as well pass the ball with his face for how well he can do it with his feet, will play like a totally different player.

That's fair enough, but that difference doesn't exist on Regular difficulty even. If it did, and Fulham finished a match with 70% pass accuracy but Man City finished a match with 90% pass accuracy - I'd play it and love it.

But that doesn't happen on any difficulty now (in 2019), in my experience. It's just consistently 90%, and all teams play the same first-time-pass perfecto-football. So it's not even just "this isn't realistic", it's "there is zero variation here between matches".

I've got a save going on PES 2019 and I've replayed a game against Spartak Moscow about ten times - NOT because of the result, but because on Regular, Top Player and Superstar, I just cannot accept how they regularly string 4-5 first-time passes together, for one player to take a touch, and then string another 4-5 first-time passes together, over and over.

In a nutshell - the worst teams play the best football of modern times (the Barcelona and Man City ways of playing). That - in my view - is really fucked up.

 

[OBH]

I didn't bother watching any more but watch from 50 seconds when the highlights start until about 2:20. This is 'highlights' and check out just how many misplaced passes there are and these are the two stand out teams from the Premier League last season. This is the problem. It's not the 5-10yd midfield passes in space that of course are 90%+ completion for most players, it's the 90% completion in the final third for average Joe, that's the real problem.

That is true, but you have to look at the context of the game.

It was MASSIVELY important, it was on the 3rd January, City's 9th or 10th game in less than a month, they'd recently lost to both Leicester and Crystal Palace so nerves were bound to be up. Your point is perfectly valid, but you can't take the human element out of it, as that's the important part that a video game could never, ever capture.

I could just as easily go grab the highlight of City vs Spurs in the CL and you'll see 4 goals in 9 minutes, including 2 horrible deflections which if it happens on PES people shout 'scripting'.

 

[medhatithi]

If this is really true I hope everybody will be happy until 2021⚽️
But one thing that is disturbing the emphasize only build up, why everything counter attack, long ball various tactics should be involved. Not only build up or may be I misunderstood something.☹

 

[Goldstone]

If this is really true I hope everybody will be happy until 2021⚽️

I hope it's true too but we hear the exact same thing every year at E3, "slower pace" "more error" "more emphasis on build up play" yadda yadda yadda...
It's like groundhog Day with PES this time of year and I've learned to ignore it now. By the the time we get our hands on retail code the game is often far removed from the version shown at E3 or was never actually 'as stated' in the first place.

 

[Flipper the Priest]

"Complicated" and "advanced" implies better, and more - not "worse in many ways".

In my opinion (and that's all it is), that's where we are. A worse simulation (with, in PES 2019, Fulham playing like Barcelona, stringing first-time pass after first-time pass together and moving like the best team in the world - and so does every other team).

You don't even have to compare PES 2019 to the older games to make that point.

That's why I will keep debating this point - and all of this is a discussion. Nobody is trolling anyone. But this opinion is as valid as any other opinion based on their experience, and thankfully (for my sanity) it seems I'm not alone in this opinion.


Klash has said himself that he thinks PES 2019 is an amazing football game, and when I've posted videos of Fulham playing to a level of technical perfection they have never played to in their history, his response is that I wasn't pressing hard enough and leaving too much space. At that point, I realised we will just never see the same things.

That makes discussion very difficult - you're both looking at the same video and seeing an entirely different picture. But he is entitled to love the game, and to reject my opinion. Klash has done a lot for the PES community - his tactics files are a brilliant edition to the game.

I reject the old "this place is toxic" thing, though. Factually, it isn't. There are no trolls, no insults. We just critique here, and other places don't - you could say we hold the game to too high a standard, sure. But that's not the same thing.

You use Fulham as an example. I raise you Aberdeen.

No-one who's played PES 2019 offline, with and against Scottish Premiership teams, can rate PES 2019 as a good game, let alone a good sim.

Six ground passes, resulting in a goal, is gold dust. Duncan Shearer vs Rangers, 1993, is what we're looking at.

There's no scrap in PES, no physicality. All slick passing and all the difficulty levels do it make the CPU defending less calamitous. Scottish football can be ugly but competitive and I want a game to reflect that. I'm old school, but it's not unreasonable to wish for realism, which we were closer to, arguably, 20 years ago.