eFootball PES 2020 Demo Discussion Thread (PS4/Xbox)

[Goldstone]

Example of unresponsive shooting, not a perfect example but i've experienced many such similar situations in the demo (and for like the past 5 years now in pes games..). could have been a nice goal too:


2 nice goals i scored (full manual controls, online 1v1):

The first video doesn't make any sense to me. You're pressing the shoot button way before the ball is anywhere near you for a start & the ball never actually reaches your foot because the Keeper gets there first. Judging by the trajectory of your run and the angle the ball is coming in at, I don't really know what you expect to happen here? When you press the shoot button the ball is yards away and is behind you, if you feel the striker should shoot at that very instance then he'd have to warp backwards & do some very weird looking animation to attempt on goal.

It's the weight & momentum carrying you forward with your run & the keeper comes out & meets the ball first. If anything, the game is just trying to stick to the law of physics which is actually a really good thing IMO.

 

[Elanimator]

Example of unresponsive shooting, not a perfect example but i've experienced many such similar situations in the demo (and for like the past 5 years now in pes games..). could have been a nice goal too:

What I noticed is that this happens a lot when:
As a passer, you applied more power than it should be.
As a receiver, when you pressed shoot/pass early and/or applied too much power to those things.

I think It's because of the rails.
Sometimes the pass receiver just don't want to touch/get the ball even though it's already close to him because he is waiting for the "right spot" to receive it (based on the power you applied to the pass).
If you applied just a little bit less power, then the striker could have met the ball in the perfect spot you want it to.
On manual, we have bit more control on this. On assisted, I'm not sure how this applies.

Something like this.

The contact point(red dot) is where the pass receiver and ball meets.
The green line is the ball path of the pass.
The light green line is the receivers running path.

So in your situation, I think you applied a little bit more power(can be you or the game decided to do that) on the pass and since your pass contact point is further, then you pressed shoot to early or applied too much power.

If the applied power on your pass is correct then I think the power you applied to the shot and timing is okay because he is meant to meet the ball on an earlier time.

This is just my theory. I might be completely wrong.

 

[Madmac79]

By the way, if I had to say something I don't go crazy for, are GKs. Sometimes they feel wonderful and sometimes I think they are too OP indeed.

On the other hand I still have the 2016 ones in my eyes, so I'd say in this case it's always better to have them more OP than bugged in the other opposite way, where every ball in their direction is a chance, as in my vision is better to have a bit few but more fullfilling goals. Plus I'm seeing way more goals from outside compared to 2019 so it should be kinda fine.

Still hope they'll find a better balance in the future tho.

 

[JUNELELE]

What I noticed is that this happens a lot when:
As a passer, you applied more power than it should be.
As a receiver, when you pressed shoot/pass early and/or applied too much power to those things.

I think It's because of the rails.
Sometimes the pass receiver just don't want to touch/get the ball even though it's already close to him because he is waiting for the "right spot" to receive it (based on the power you applied to the pass).
If you applied just a little bit less power, then the striker could have met the ball in the perfect spot you want it to.
On manual, we have bit more control on this. On assisted, I'm not sure how this applies.

Something like this.

The contact point(red dot) is where the pass receiver and ball meets.
The green line is the ball path of the pass.
The light green line is the receivers running path.

So in your situation, I think you applied a little bit more power on the pass and since your pass contact point is further, then you pressed shoot to early or applied too much power.

If the applied power on your pass is correct then I think the power you applied to the shot and timing is okay because he is meant to meet the ball on an earlier time.

This is just my theory. I might be completely wrong.

the power on the pass is fine in actuality, because the striker could easily touch that ball much earlier. the problem as you mentioned is that the player is on rails and wont change from his pre-determined path regardless of shot input. additionally he has zero awareness/reaction/urgency to the existance of the keeper. both these things add to up this piece of play feeling unresponsive and undynamic.

 

[DigitalByDesign]

That has nothing to do with responsiveness of controller inputs. You're just described realistic physics and proper football fundamentals, which is all excellent in this game.

I’m a offline player so haven’t had response issues..I do play more on the XboxOne X though..Which IMO is more polished..

Certainly experienced more bugs and glitches on the PS4 pro then I have on the X..although I do play both.I believe it’s more a optimisation issue then any power disparity although it’s clear from texture quality and controller response the X takes advantage of the greater GPU overhead.

I haven’t had issues where the game is ignoring my commands though..

 

[Ameppe]

the problem as you mentioned is that the player is on rails and wont budge from his pre-determined path regardless of shot input .

Problem is the player is at full speed and it's extremely difficult to stop spriting in a split second even in real life. He doesn't have enough time to do that and adapt to the pass trajectory, so he continues going into his predetermined path.

additionally he has zero awareness or reaction to the existance of the keeper

Actually the player has awareness of the keeper, he knows there is an obstacle facing him. If the player thought there was no obstacle he would have attempted to shoot. Imagine the same situation without the keeper rushing out, do you think you would have the same outcome?

 

[Elanimator]

the power on the pass is fine in actuality, because the striker could easily touch that ball much earlier. the problem as you mentioned is that the player is on rails and wont change from his pre-determined path regardless of shot input. additionally he has zero awareness or reaction to the existance of the keeper. both these things add to up this piece of play feeling unresponsive and undynamic.

I understand what you mean. Let's just say PES is weird sometimes.
When weird things happen in the game, I always try to find an explanation. Just hard to play/enjoy/improve-on a game when you don't know why certain things happen.

 

[Aribo n Ojo]

Example of unresponsive shooting, not a perfect example but i've experienced many such similar situations in the demo (and for like the past 5 years now in pes games..). could have been a nice goal too:


2 nice goals i scored (full manual controls, online 1v1):

So are the people saying it's unresponsive online players only? I have zero issues with offline responsiveness and couldnt understand all the complaints.

 

[Elanimator]

Actually the player has awareness of the keeper, he knows there is an obstacle facing him. If the player thought there was no obstacle he would have attempted to shoot. Imagine the same situation without the keeper rushing out, do you think you would have the same outcome?

I agree to most of your points regarding this issue but not this one(awareness to the GK), because this issue happens a lot on occasions that the pass receiver is alone.

 

[orangebard]

Re: keeper/striker awareness - I've noticed that AI strikers, put through to be 1 on 1, will only lob you once they reach a certain point on the pitch, from a few yards outside the box. If you get out to them with your GK () before they reach this mark then you will tackle them with ease (unless your keeper does a crazy slide tackle and gets sent off, which has happened once!). This is on 2019 by the way but wouldn't be surprised if it's the same on 2020.

 

[OBH]

the power on the pass is fine in actuality, because the striker could easily touch that ball much earlier. the problem as you mentioned is that the player is on rails and wont change from his pre-determined path regardless of shot input. additionally he has zero awareness/reaction/urgency to the existance of the keeper. both these things add to up this piece of play feeling unresponsive and undynamic.

This is completely true. If you press through ball for example, the player receiving the ball let’s the ball travel to the passes intended point and doesn’t accommodate for what’s around him.

The thing is though by making players show ‘more urgency’ you’d likely run the risk of players accidentally showing more urgency in other areas of the pitch where it isn’t needed.

On top of this you’d also need to create potentially hundreds of new animations because you’d be interrupting existing animations at all sorts of different times.

Let’s be honest though, this is one of those things where you need to take a step back and remind yourself that it’s a video game. To expect the players to have the same range of movement as humans do in real life is absurd. In fact has anyone programmed that into any game?? Let alone Konami.

Responsiveness isn’t the right word for this. The game isn’t ignoring your command, it just doesn’t have an animation to do what you want it to do.

 

[orangebard]

Responsiveness isn’t the right word for this. The game isn’t ignoring your command, it just doesn’t have an animation to do what you want it to do.

This is a really important point I think. There would need to be thousands more animations in order to react realistically to our inputs at any given millisecond.

 

[Emroth]

Let’s be honest though, this is one of those things where you need to take a step back and remind yourself that it’s a video game.

Besides - we do have a tool at our disposal to combat those situations, dont we?
Super Cancel is not only there to be used when you are adjusting your position for a header. Its also there for defence and offence.
If he cut the player run with super cancel to get to the ball quicker - he wouldnt have the issue to kick it (obviously he would also had to input kick power again as it would cancel his previous one)

 

[Elanimator]

Besides - we do have a tool at our disposal to combat those situations, dont we?
Super Cancel is not only there to be used when you are adjusting your position for a header. Its also there for defence and offence.
If he cut the player run with super cancel to get to the ball quicker - he wouldnt have the issue to kick it (obviously he would also had to input kick power again as it would cancel his previous one)

We are all already good at super-canceling now but it is still considered an advanced move... but why do we need to use it for basic defending and attacking.
I don't have a problem with it and I love using it, just wondering why we need to use it for basic things.

EDIT: Nevermind, just thought maybe Supercancel is just a basic move, and I'm just thinking it's advanced.

 

[Emroth]

We are all already good at super-canceling now but it is still considered an advanced move... but why do we need to use it for basic defending and attacking.
I don't have a problem with it and I love using it, just wondering why we need to use it for basic things.

Well.. we dont..
But we shouldnt come in complaining about pre-determined player paths then..
If we want basic football experience - lets just have it and enjoy it as much as we can.
I wasnt using super cancel up until pes19 and I was ok with players being pulled the wrong way every now and again.
Once you start digging deep into details, player paths, animations and all that - IMO you should also start digging deeper into your own game style as well to see is there a way to prevent/fix it.
With the ball physics and freedom, they had to implement some sort of pre-determined paths for players, otherwise we would end up with an absolute mess on the pitch and bunch of headless chickens.
More often than not pre-determined paths are helping to keep the gameplay in some sort of a shape.
Once it starts annoying you, it means to me that you got to the point, where you should start using advanced methods to control the ball.

 

[Elanimator]

Well.. we dont..
But we shouldnt come in complaining about pre-determined player paths then..
If we want basic football experience - lets just have it and enjoy it as much as we can.
I wasnt using super cancel up until pes19 and I was ok with players being pulled the wrong way every now and again.
Once you start digging deep into details, player paths, animations and all that - IMO you should also start digging deeper into your own game style as well to see is there a way to prevent/fix it.
With the ball physics and freedom, they had to implement some sort of pre-determined paths for players, otherwise we would end up with an absolute mess on the pitch and bunch of headless chickens.
More often than not pre-determined paths are helping to keep the gameplay in some sort of a shape.
Once it starts annoying you, it means to me that you got to the point, where you should start using advanced methods to control the ball.

Just thought Supercancel is supposed to be more of a game enhancer than a game-fixer.
But I get your point.

 

[JUNELELE]

I understand what you mean. Let's just say PES is weird sometimes.
When weird things happen in the game, I always try to find an explanation. Just hard to play/enjoy/improve-on a game when you don't know why certain things happen.

I know why it happens - not specfically, mind - but its because the game is not designed greatly. That's why I haven't bought a PES game since 2013.

On top of this you’d also need to create potentially hundreds of new animations because you’d be interrupting existing animations at all sorts of different times.

Let’s be honest though, this is one of those things where you need to take a step back and remind yourself that it’s a video game. To expect the players to have the same range of movement as humans do in real life is absurd. In fact has anyone programmed that into any game?? Let alone Konami.

FIFA16. It's much more fluid of a game. More fluid than PES and even the newer fifas.

An example of the top of my head is this:


Marcelo could have passed that ball normally. He could positioned himself closer to the ball and made a cleaner contact. But instead he stretches and gets in a quick toe poke. Why he did this I don't know. Maybe it was the speed I pressed the button, maybe it was the defender closing in on him. Whatever the reason, the game read the situation well enough and produced a satifysing result along with a rare animation.

But to be honest, I'm not sure lack of animations is even the problem here. It seems more an on rails problem. The striker in my original video didn't nessescarily need more animations, he just needed to run toward the ball with a sense of urgency rather than wait and wait and wait until the ball was almost at the feet of the keeper to finally kick it.

Responsiveness isn’t the right word for this. The game isn’t ignoring your command, it just doesn’t have an animation to do what you want it to do.

Whether the game ignores your command or simply cannot respond properly is irrelevant - the means is irrelvant - when the end result is that the game doesn't obey your command to a satisfying degree. It's still unresponsive. Or laggy. Or delayed. Whatever you want to call it.

 

[Damjan]

um.....is this the soundtrack besides whats in the demo?

That ''Anderlecht Champion'' song being in that list is a big hint that Anderlecht's stadium (Constant vanden Stock Stadion) will be in the game. In the demo there's already evidence that they've added authentic goal tunes and walk-up anthems. I can't imagine they would add that Anderlecht song if it had nothing to do with them getting their stadium.

Perhaps this could also be a further hint that they're trying to put some more detail into the smaller licensed leagues they recently acquired. I fully expect at least one Russian stadium being added. I think it would be a great tactic to gain more sales in those countries. Even if they took ages to add them, last year their promise of adding Celtic Park and Ibrox surely managed to sway a decent amount of Scottish gamers.

On an other note, has there been any news about Schalke's license? Would be a shame to lose their stadium like we did Dortmund's.

 

[Elanimator]

I know why it happens - not specfically, mind - but its because the game is not designed greatly. That's why I haven't bought a PES game since 2013.

I agree to some extent.
I guess, I still love the game because it still gives me enough enjoyment to play it.
This year, I almost quit because of the new controls. I just can't invest my time adjusting the new controls but I quickly overcame that issue.
Pes2020 is just another PES for me. There's good and there's bad. There are improvements and there are issues that are still there from years ago.
The bad isn't game-breaking for me yet so I'm still enjoying it.

Whether the game ignores your command or simply cannot respond properly is irrelevant - the means is irrelvant - when the end result is that the game doesn't obey your command to a satisfying degree. It's still unresponsive. Or laggy. Or delayed. Whatever you want to call it.

I personally didn't find PES games since 2015 unresponsive, generally.
Of course, once the bugs/scripting/bad game-design kicks in, you might feel it as unresponsive.

 

[JUNELELE]

I agree to some extent.
I guess, I still love the game because it still gives me enough enjoyment to play it.
This year, I almost quit because of the new controls. I just can't invest my time adjusting the new controls but I quickly overcame that issue.
Pes2020 is just another PES for me. There's good and there's bad. There are improvements and there are issues that are still there from years ago.
The bad isn't game-breaking for me yet so I'm still enjoying it.

Personally I don't buy pes for reasons that preceed gameplay issues. They can't even get the basics right like half decent camera angles or playing full manual matches online, what an absolute joke if you're an online full manual player like me.

(if you didn't know, you can only search to play people who use manual passing, but the game doesn't account for manual shooting. So you frequently play people who use assisted shooting. I've had it happen multiple times in the demo already so nothings changed this year either).

I personally didn't find PES games since 2015 unresponsive, generally.
Of course, once the bugs/scripting/bad game-design kicks in, you might feel it as unresponsive.

I dunno. PES has had unresponsiveness goalkeepers, collisons, player reactions, and shooting for like 5-6 years now. They are fairly signifcant parts of the game so, for me, I think it's fair to say the game is generally unresponsive.

 

[NIK778899]

has there been any news about Schalke's license

Wondered the same myself. Nowhere to be seen in promo material or the demo.

 

[Chuny]

Wondered the same myself. Nowhere to be seen in promo material or the demo.

I did see it.
There was an event in Germany a few weeks ago in which you could play as Bayern Munich and as Shalke.
I am 99% sure I saw pictures of that on Twitter.

 

[Chuny]

Here:

 

[its999maggle]

um.....is this the soundtrack besides whats in the demo?

Forever Number 1, Carnival de Paris, nice.

 

[Elanimator]

Personally I don't buy pes for reasons that preceed gameplay issues. They can't even get the basics right like half decent camera angles or playing full manual matches online, what an absolute joke if you're an online full manual player like me.

(if you didn't know, you can only search to play people who use manual passing, but the game doesn't account for manual shooting. So you frequently play people who use assisted shooting. I've had it happen multiple times in the demo already so nothings changed this year either).

I mostly play FUMA online against a cousin(2 race-to-4-wins session per week) on Pes2018 and pes2019, on Steam.
Aside from my cousin, I only played with 3 other fuma players on Steam with less than 15 games in total. haha

Since my cousin is busy on his studies this semester and I don't have someone to play with on a regular basis anymore, I bought a PS4 last week.
So far, I think I have played against more than 25 different FUMA players(some of them multiple times) and plan to play FUMA divisions(or just friendly lobby with some fuma guys) when the game is released.
Yah, it's weird that there's no filter for shot type... because manual vs basic/advance shooting is totally different in terms of efforts/skills needed to score.

I've played with a few PA0 who uses basic and advanced shooting so it's not fair but I still enjoyed it very much!
Why? Because last year, I've been playing against non-fuma players who uses 5-star teams via online friendly. It's so stressful because they don't need to put a lot of effort and they can score easily. It's also stressful because I need to double or triple your efforts when defending. I have no choice, as I don't want to play with AI sometimes. I don't play offline modes aside from exhibition.

Of course, I'm hoping to find opponent who also uses 4 star(or less) teams and uses manual shooting but playing against PA0 + basic/advanced shooting is still a significant step up(in terms of enjoyment) for me so I can't complain.

I dunno. PES has had unresponsiveness goalkeepers, collisons, player reactions, and shooting for like 5-6 years now. They are fairly signifcant parts of the game so, for me, I think it's fair to say the game is generally unresponsive.

If it's generally unresponsive, I wouldn't play it, no one will play it.
I can't blame you if you think it's unresponsive, I just really don't find it unresponsive at all except for those things I've mentioned in my previous post. There's still a lot of unresponsive moments resulting from those per game but I can still tolerate it and doesn't hinder my overall enjoyment.

 

[Schwarzenbeck]

I know why it happens - not specfically, mind - but its because the game is not designed greatly. That's why I haven't bought a PES game since 2013.



FIFA16. It's much more fluid of a game. More fluid than PES and even the newer fifas.

An example of the top of my head is this:


Marcelo could have passed that ball normally. He could positioned himself closer to the ball and made a cleaner contact. But instead he stretches and gets in a quick toe poke. Why he did this I don't know. Maybe it was the speed I pressed the button, maybe it was the defender closing in on him. Whatever the reason, the game read the situation well enough and produced a satifysing result along with a rare animation.

But to be honest, I'm not sure lack of animations is even the problem here. It seems more an on rails problem. The striker in my original video didn't nessescarily need more animations, he just needed to run toward the ball with a sense of urgency rather than wait and wait and wait until the ball was almost at the feet of the keeper to finally kick it.




Whether the game ignores your command or simply cannot respond properly is irrelevant - the means is irrelvant - when the end result is that the game doesn't obey your command to a satisfying degree. It's still unresponsive. Or laggy. Or delayed. Whatever you want to call it.

I agree that there are still some frustrating moments in PES having to do with unresponsiveness, lacking urgency, input lag, rails or whatever you want to call it.

For me Lewandowski (the one in the game, not the real one) is notorious for never running towards a pass that has been slightly under-hit. Instead he is waiting like a princess for the ball to roll to his position. And sometimes, when you play a diagonal through ball, the receiver will continue to run towards the mathematical point where ball trajectory and running vector intersect, even though it is very clear that an AI-player will intercept the ball long before (super cancel aficionados, hold your breath and see below*). Another example is when a striker takes ages to wind up a shot so that an AI defender has that extra split second he needs to throw his body in and block it. I think the latter is one of those conscious design choices to reduce the likelihood of unrealistically high scoring games.

Anyway, there does seem to be a lack of positional checks when the ball is loose, aka between sender and receiver. Of course, *someone will tell me to use super cancel, but to be honest – and I might get flak for this – that's a quite outdated concept in my opinion. I am expecting from a modern AI – with emphasis on the "I" – that they can figure these things out without me having to steer them off their rails, at least on the more assisted levels. Which doesn't mean, btw, that super cancel needs to be removed altogether.

Then again, there is also a difference between fluidity and realism. That FIFA clip is arguably quite fluid. But these are outtakes of how many dozens (hundreds?) of games? I could probably compile a similar movie with PES after a good number of matches, demonstrating how nice it flows. And I personally find the dribbling animations to be too hectic, particularly the ones with Neymar. They are almost like from a Keystone Cops movie. Prefer the pace and "feel" of PES, with all the aforementioned niggles. Horses for courses, as always.

 

[JUNELELE]

So far, I think I have played against more than 25 different FUMA players(some of them multiple times) and plan to play FUMA divisions(or just friendly lobby with some fuma some other fuma guys)when the game is released.
Yah, it's weird that there's no filter for shot type... because manual vs basic/advance shooting is totally different in terms of efforts/skills needed to score.

I've played with a few PA0 who uses basic and advanced shooting so it's not fair but I still enjoyed it very much!
Why? Because last year, I've been playing against non-fuma players via online friendly. It's so stressful because they don't need to put a lot of effort and they can score easily. It's also stressful because you need to double or triple your efforts when defending. I have no choice, as I don't want to play with AI sometimes. I don't play offline modes aside from exhibition.

Of course, I'm hoping to find opponent who also uses 4 star(or less) teams and uses manual shooting but playing against PA0 + basic/advanced shooting is still a significant step up(in terms of enjoyment) for me so I can't complain.

Yeah, me too. I'm surprised how easy it is to find PA0 players online in the demo. Not sure if that would carry on to the full game or if it's just cause everyone is trying the demo though.
I'm on ps4 too btw, i wonder if I've played you lol.

PA0 is obviously a big improvement over PA1/2/3... but why not just have a full manual filter? FIFA has it. It's so basic.

If it's generally unresponsive, I wouldn't play it, no one will play it.
I can't blame you if you think it's unresponsive, I just really don't find it unresponsive at all except for those things I've mentioned in my previous post.

I Disagree. RDR2 was unresponsive and people still the loved the game for things beside the character control. People still love playing games like Destiny on PS4 when it's a choppy 30fps (Really bad for fast paced first person shooters).

People will put up the bad stuff to enjoy the good stuff.

 

[PRO_TOO]

um.....is this the soundtrack besides whats in the demo?

My guts tell me “pop goes the world” is kicking that “football... soccer...” song from its throne!
Could be wrong though.

 

[PRO_TOO]

What I noticed is that this happens a lot when:
As a passer, you applied more power than it should be.
As a receiver, when you pressed shoot/pass early and/or applied too much power to those things.

I think It's because of the rails.
Sometimes the pass receiver just don't want to touch/get the ball even though it's already close to him because he is waiting for the "right spot" to receive it (based on the power you applied to the pass).
If you applied just a little bit less power, then the striker could have met the ball in the perfect spot you want it to.
On manual, we have bit more control on this. On assisted, I'm not sure how this applies.

Something like this.

The contact point(red dot) is where the pass receiver and ball meets.
The green line is the ball path of the pass.
The light green line is the receivers running path.

So in your situation, I think you applied a little bit more power(can be you or the game decided to do that) on the pass and since your pass contact point is further, then you pressed shoot to early or applied too much power.

If the applied power on your pass is correct then I think the power you applied to the shot and timing is okay because he is meant to meet the ball on an earlier time.

This is just my theory. I might be completely wrong.

Just adding to your comment here...: that’s why it is so important to use super cancel and get the player of the rail!
It creates the best moments in PES, I swear! 2 player running for the ball: don’t just run! use super cancel to get an advantage.
Long high ball from the keeper into the field: you don’t wanna get stucked behind the opponent? User super cancel!
You are going for one of these awesome looking bouncy balls deflected by someone and your player is running the wrong way? Use super cancel!

Have a good day y’all. I’ll be having dinner and then it’s demo time!

 

[OBH]

Whether the game ignores your command or simply cannot respond properly is irrelevant - the means is irrelvant - when the end result is that the game doesn't obey your command to a satisfying degree. It's still unresponsive. Or laggy. Or delayed. Whatever you want to call it.

Of course it's relevant.

If you're playing an FPS that has no 'jump' button you don't start complaining that it's 'unresponsive', you complain that there's an action you want to do that isn't built into the game. Now, if you tried moving but it always took 2 seconds to do something that is designed to happen instantly, THAT is unresponsive. We're not talking about pes taking an extra second to pass the ball every time we press the button, we're talking about people wanting the game to do something that doesn't physically exist.

And for every positive video you'd like to share about Fifa I could dig out 10 of these beauties


That's some solid, fluid gameplay right there