eFootball (All Platforms)

[Bravez]

I think this is the first year I've ever been meh about PES. I think I and Konami have accepted it'll never be where it was. New engine should be a chance to showcase something game changing but sadly I think this talk of mobile/console alignment makes too much sense to not be true. Makes no sense to me, but to Konami and for where they are with PES.

Guess we'll see very soon.

 

[pacpes]

Trust me that I am, you'll wait and see

Are you the same guy that was posting the exact same stuff on the FIFA thread, until its reveal? Trying your luck in this thread now?

 

[Emroth]

Suppose you're aiming at a 26 degree angle, if the game makes it a 30 degree angle because "stats" then it's not "full manual"

Ok, but Full Manual is not supposed to be The Outcome. It's only direction and power. It's more of an Attempt.

He wants to hit it at 26degree angle, but his body position, ballance, technique and strong Vs weak foot will ultimately decide whether he succeeds or not.

Full Manual supposed to just give you more freedom to attempt passes into spaces otherwise impossible on assisted, as it will correct your trajectory to the nearest player.

He didnt mean to break the window. His attempt was to shoot in the top corner. Which doesnt mean that he didnt have "full manual control" of his shot. Its just that "God" did not correct his trajectory.

 

[Peter Withe]

I wonder who's gonna be next pes cover after cr7 or messi retired 🤔

Darren Ambrose.

 

[manmachine]

He wants to hit it at 26degree angle, but his body position, ballance, technique and strong Vs weak foot will ultimately decide whether he succeeds or not.

Oh, totally agree, didn't read the whole conversation, which I probably should have before typing pretty much the same, but that's what I would expect too. And I'm just guessing that accounting for all of these things makes it "less manual" for some. I don't know. 😅

 

[Emroth]

Oh, totally agree, didn't read the whole conversation, which I probably should have before typing pretty much the same, but that's what I would expect too. And I'm just guessing that accounting for all of these things makes it "less manual" for some. I don't know. 😅

100%. If anything - it should be much more stats driven than it currently is.

Regardless whether you are on manual or assisted - you can barely see the differences between players these days and weaker teams play like Barcelona.
This is my biggest gripe with Pes these days.
Playing Fifa16 recently made me realise that its not me, controlling the ball, that makes the game fun and long-term playable.
Its the AI. AI forcing me to think. AI being unpredictable. AI being random. And cheeky. Its the AI that makes the football game fun.
Recent Pes games might be the best football games ever created when you are on the ball. But AI ruins it. Long term it becomes stale, boring and frustrating. Because AI is so shallow.
This is why people are still talking about old Pes games. Controls had 8 directions, ball physics wasnt the best, but AI was top notch. Before the match even started we were afraid seeing some AI players on the pitch. Nowadays we see Messi and all we think is - "wow, cool beard..."

 

[h3li0]

Of course FUMA can still have difference between players, your input just sends the intention of where you want to hit the ball, how consistently the ball ends up where you aimed is down to player attributes. That isn't making it somehow "less manual", it's just the same error that exists on assistance being applied to manual.

An example of something that has always been "full manual" on PES with this kind of stats influence would be free kicks. Even on PES6 you basically decided where you're aiming down to the millimetre, yet with a player with a poor FK accuracy stat then even with identical inputs, loads of the shots will not end up exactly where you aimed and will go into the wall, off target or to the GK. With Juninho or Beckham they would be very consistent and you could score a high percentage with identical inputs.

Both are full manual but the players with higher stats are more effective, the same can be true of anything with manual input... Whether each game has done this properly is it's own discussion but saying manual must mean no stats influence is completely wrong. Error/inconsistency is nothing to do with assistance.

When you mention PES 6 free-kicks being "full manual" they are not, you point were you want but then stats have effect and your cursor have effect even after you shoot it, if you want to bend it. the thing is that for players with better FK accuracy stats the strenght bar was less sensitive and you had a bigger range were you could hit so that the ball goes through the wall and goes on goal, and like you said, if you manage to aim to and give the stregnth consistently it will go more times were its intended. I could do that with ML player as long i got used to the player and that player had a arrow form in max. It was the same with shooting, you try 10 shoots with shevchenko on that game or adriano and 8 or 9 go well placed and with power, even if they were in bad form, and that felt much more free than it is now, because i think that we had so much more determined outcomes coded, even with just 8 directions available, that it felt always different and new, even after 100 games. Today everytime i take a shoot it seems dull, like the outcome is just predetermined, before i even choose the side or strength of my shoot, and the keeper is already well positioned to make one of that stop in the air defenses.

I really trying here, but cant understand your logic at all..

Its like you and your friend go to a football pitch. Your friend is good at shooting, you are shite. Both of ye are trying to shoot into top corner.
Your friend hits it, while you break somebodys window.

Going by your logic - its not really full manual on the real pitch then..?

What i means its If stat have heavy impact on it, than, for me, it should not be called FUMA. The other PA levels only differs from it because you have probably less pre-determined outcomes, when you shoot pointing the right side of the goal as an example., as you would have with "FUMA".

Since they started copying FIFA on PA levels the game just got worse and worse in my opinion, and despite being better in differentiating players compared to FIFA, we are going on a route were its more and more like FIFA. Lets just hope that in 6 days we have good news.

 

[PRO_TOO]

When you mention PES 6 free-kicks being "full manual" they are not, you point were you want but then stats have effect and your cursor have effect even after you shoot it, if you want to bend it. the thing is that for players with better FK accuracy stats the strenght bar was less sensitive and you had a bigger range were you could hit so that the ball goes through the wall and goes on goal, and like you said, if you manage to aim to and give the stregnth consistently it will go more times were its intended. I could do that with ML player as long i got used to the player and that player had a arrow form in max. It was the same with shooting, you try 10 shoots with shevchenko on that game or adriano and 8 or 9 go well placed and with power, even if they were in bad form, and that felt much more free than it is now, because i think that we had so much more determined outcomes coded, even with just 8 directions available, that it felt always different and new, even after 100 games. Today everytime i take a shoot it seems dull, like the outcome is just predetermined, before i even choose the side or strength of my shoot, and the keeper is already well positioned to make one of that stop in the air defenses.



What i means its If stat have heavy impact on it, than, for me, it should not be called FUMA. The other PA levels only differs from it because you have probably less pre-determined outcomes, when you shoot pointing the right side of the goal as an example., as you would have with "FUMA".

Since they started copying FIFA on PA levels the game just got worse and worse in my opinion, and despite being better in differentiating players compared to FIFA, we are going on a route were its more and more like FIFA. Lets just hope that in 6 days we have good news.

take a guy like de Bruyne, for example.
on a wonderful sunny afternoon, he is all alone on the training pitch, a ball laying in front of him (birds in the tees singing, a lonely fan at the gate): with a swing of this leg (carried out by himself), he kicks the ball forward 10 meter.
now i step onto the pitch next to de Bruyne (he looks confused but says nothing). this time he does nothing but standing in the exact same position (looking a bit suspicious at me) with the same goal of hitting the ball forward 10 meter. i now grab his stronger leg like a golf club and swing it gently with both of my hands. the result is the same but one situation is full manual, the other is assisted!

edit: seconds later, de Bruyne still standing on the pitch looking at me a bit stunned, while i am leaving the pitch and shouting one last sentence... "its for educational purposes"!

 

[Emroth]

What i means its If stat have heavy impact on it, than, for me, it should not be called FUMA

Its not. Its called - Pass Assist 0.
Its not called "Pass Assist 0 with no body position, ballance, pressure, or stats impact".
People are just calling it FUMA. So are you not happy with people calling it Full Manual, or the outcome still affected by stats?

 

[h3li0]

I agree with you that it should be Stat based, because as you said earlier, nowadays its becoming more and more difficult to differentiate players.

What i´m not happy is having tons of PA levels, and for me, I just think that when you play in FUMA/PA0, the stats have even less impact. I tried yesterday on training mode once again on PES 21 and despite power difference in shoots, i could place the ball in same places with Cristiano Ronaldo and with Bonucci, with the only difference being Bonucci shots going slower, same in passes. But this is what i felt and what i can see when playing, and this is what i dont like about PA0, probably you and other people that play on PA0 have different experiences, since it feels much more free, hence the reason you play on PA0, but for me it takes out even more of what PES was all about, a Stats outcome based game, like it was on PS2 times. I would ratther have just one PA level where they coded 200 different outcomes for the same action, depending on Player Stats/form, balance.

For me, this 4 or 5 PA assistence levels its ruining the game more than giving options. A decent AI, it´s already extremelly difficult to code with just a default PA, and as you said it was really good in PS2 times, in my opinion because we didnt had this necessity to please everyone like today, and giving toons of options, so coding the AI for 4 or 5 PA levels just make its even worse.

As i already referred i felt more freedom in shooting when playing on PS2, than i feel in PES 21 playing PA0, or any other PA level.

@PRO_TOO so in that analogy there is no diferrence since the ball still goes 10 meter .

This all started because i said that when playing in "FUMA" the only difference between players was physicall atributes like speed, strenght and height, and i maintain that opinion, as my playing experience shows me that.

 

[chiefrocka4real]

I think, manual passing along with stats is quite difficult to implement perfectly.
But what I know is, that for example body positioning takes an effect on your pass.
If your player stands with the back to the passing direction, the performance of the pass won´t be how it should be even you might think "Hey...I aimed correctly".
Where I notice stats on full manual is with shooting.
I had two situations on volley shots.
The first one was a nice lofted pass to my left wing attacker who took the shot volley with his weaker leg. The aiming was quite correct as I was aiming for the goal of course, but the shot went too high over the goal. It made sense because it was his weaker foot.
Second situation, a corner and the ball was cleared by the AI high up in the air and came to my player who was about to take it volley on his strong foot with good kicking stats. Shot came hard, but my aiming wasn´t accurate so I missed the goal.
It´s not only on volley shots, but I literally feel stats when I play FUMA.
Sometimes more, sometimes less...it´s not always there, but it´s not like that stats don´t matter at all on FUMA.

 

[Emroth]

This all started because i said that when playing in "FUMA" the only difference between players was physicall atributes like speed, strenght and height, and i maintain that opinion, as my playing experience shows me that.

And in most cases - I agree with you on that. In most cases - us, just playing a game, we dont see subtle stats influence there. Every time we miss a pass or shot - we just assume its because we aimed it wrong or put too much/not enough power.
But watch this clip.


There are clear examples how stats are impacting the outcome. Which does not mean that you are not in control there either.
Full Manual, or should I say, No Pass Assist just gives you more freedom in creating chances, as the ball is not automatically being pulled towards certain player.

 

[DuduBR9]

Just to remind You guys that this might be an annoucement of an annoucement. Its Konami, so dont expect they Will show much.

 

[h3li0]

And in most cases - I agree with you on that. In most cases - us, just playing a game, we dont see subtle stats influence there. Every time we miss a pass or shot - we just assume its because we aimed it wrong or put too much/not enough power.
But watch this clip.


There are clear examples how stats are impacting the outcome. Which does not mean that you are not in control there either.
Full Manual, or should I say, No Pass Assist just gives you more freedom in creating chances, as the ball is not automatically being pulled towards certain player.

Yes i fully agree with you, and based on that video the chances possible and even the different animations are better. And based on the player traits part of the video surelly stats have some influence, i give you that. I just might not see that, since to be honest i played few games on this new PES games since 2018 iteration, because somehow despite the gameplay being miles better than FIFA ( which i cannot like) it simply lost the soul of PES for me and it´s way boring for me to play more that 2 or 3 games in a row. Maybe i should give a bigger try to the game in PA0, to see if i can check everything mentioned on that Video.

But nonetheless, like i said i fell that stats count less and less, and the awfull shooting which was deffinitly the thing i liked most about PES games on the past, now feels so dull that scoring a goal gives me no satisfaction at all.

 

[-Panos-]

I've been doing some thinking these past few days.

Evo Web is a great community, and really passionate about the game. Mods, patches, discussions over and over again about the game.
Does it matter though?
Each year there is a thread about the upcoming game and people are writing about what should KONAMI do differently, and then eventually there are many things that didn't go as the community wanted, not even close. And most likely, there are stuff that are being discussed here since some older iterations of the game, and they are still being ignored.
You would think, "but why don't they listen to the community, don't they want to make us happy, we are the ones giving them money after all". You could say the same thing goes for FIFA too.
Well, guess what. They don't want to make you happy, they don't consider you important, and they don't consider this community important. We are just a very tiny percentage of people that plays their game, and most importantly, we are not the ones that generate profit.
You see, long gone are the times when huge companies listened to their hardcore communities like some indie studio or something. Everything now is business.
Look at this thread, 3K replies. 3K replies, about stuff that should be fixed, added, removed etc. Imagine if every reply was from a different person (which isn't, but I'm trying to create a "good" scenario). What is 3000 people for KONAMI? It's absolutely nothing! If every one in this thread stopped buying PES forever, KONAMI wouldn't care because this hardcore community is very tiny in front of the millions of people that download the game for free on mobile (check out those stats), and only care about the latest Iconic Moment MESSI or whatever trend there is. Those are the people that KONAMI cares about, because they generate profit. Not us!
What do we do here, really? We buy the game once a year, and that's it! By reading most of the posts here, one can easily understand that this hardcore community cares too much about only the offline aspect of the game, Master League, and how to make it realistic using mods and patches. However, buying the game once a year and staying offline trying to have a "realistic" experience, is SO not profitable for KONAMI. For the scenario that each of the 3K replies was unique, imagine, 50 euros per year * 3000 people = 150000. You think KONAMI cares about 150000? KONAMI is a huge business, 150000 isnt enough for the electricity of their buildings each year.
Moan all you want here, you are shouting at a dead end. The present (not even the future) is the millions of people that play online and spend billions on microtransactions on the most absurd stuff like skins, faces, cards etc. and don't even care how the game plays, as long as they spend as much as they can in order for their brain to produce dopamine and make them think they feel happy. That's why there is a LITE version, that's why probably this LITE version is going to become the next original version + DLCs.
Am I angry/disappointed that my favourite game has come to this state/mess? Yes. Are we all? Yes. Do they care even a 0.00001%. Absolutely not.

All this, has reminded me a great video from Brian Firenzi released in 2012 about MTV.

Instead of MTV and music videos you can put KONAMI and PES with focus on gameplay and stuff that really matters, and instead of silly tv shows you can put microtransactions and fancy graphics/faces etc. His response is what we actually get.
Not. Their. F***ing. Demo.

 

[rojofa]

I think current FUMA, in PES at least, doesn't have enough stats influence with the biggest differences between players being in power/spin/trajectory rather than quality/consistency.

I think it's done on purpose so that manual remains more playable/accessible with current input devices (gamepad).

On top of any potential stat-based error, you would also have the double whammy of any user-based error in stick position. If it were full manual + realistic stats based error, it may be deemed too punishing/random and look more like Sunday League than professional football for most people. I think current PES both has too little stats impact, and also regularly "autocorrects" manual passes (possibly even shots) onto rails.

Also some FUMA users seem to enjoy the challenge of testing how accurately they can twiddle their thumbs and want this user-based stick error to be the main gameplay factor anyway. For me this is the worst thing about manual...

I only want the extra freedom to play the ball into areas not possible on the assisted settings, I don't want the added cock-ups because my thumb was a few degrees off with the left stick. Manual shooting is even more stupid for this reason imo, I don't want Ronaldo putting the ball wide because my thumb was at 123 degrees instead of 118 degrees...

Having the "freedom" to shoot off target is such a stupid idea which makes no sense in a football simulation - the only time a player would intentionally aim off target with a shot is if they were match fixing, yet this essentially what you're instructing the player to do when you send a manual shot with stick inputs aiming off target.

Maybe in the future some new way to control the game will be possible, where you have the freedom to visualise/attempt whatever you want without the error added by how well you aim analog sticks. Maybe some VR/mind reading tech .

 

[CastoloMessias]

We wait to see.

For me, it has always been about GAMEPLAY, that's what made PES - PES 5 absolutely amazing games. The balance in midfield, the enjoyment of defending and the thrill of scoring a goal, even against AI.

Everything about that BETA TEST felt off, it felt clunky, unresponsive, a different game. I'm not sure I expect anything any more from Konami. It would need a near miracle to turn me around. The animations and player models would have to be amazing.

Under the hood and the marketing hype, I'd need a game that plays and looks better than Fifa. I won't hold my breath.




*I still play PES 2021 Season Update which I find a decent football game. I don't play online, only Master League atm. I can control the pace of the game, the ball physics are good and it feels fair when I miss a goal or when I concede. I play as Rennes in France and my squad is fun to develop and I'm enjoying revitalising the career of Phil Coutinho. Everything around the game of course looks terrible and it is clear it is a PS4 game, which looks old hat now. Give an upgraded version of that game with more sophisticated player movement and new animations and I would be happy....

 

[janguv]

This all started because i said that when playing in "FUMA" the only difference between players was physicall atributes like speed, strenght and height, and i maintain that opinion, as my playing experience shows me that.

You're contradicting yourself here lol...

i could place the ball in same places with Cristiano Ronaldo and with Bonucci, with the only difference being Bonucci shots going slower, same in passes.

Clearly you already noticed that shots and passes were slower with Bonucci vs Ronaldo. For more pronounced differences, you should be using lower rated players anyway. And always check out their skill traits – do they have one-touch pass, first-time shot, etc? Those will make a difference.

I don't know why you expect that after 2 or 3 games you will have discovered something (that "stats don't matter" on FUMA setting) which people who have played thousands of games – all of these people – are saying isn't the case lol.

Again: FUMA doesn't mean "free of stats" it means "not assisted". That is at least the idea. And assistance does not mean "driven by the stats". Assistance most often actually overrides stats. That's why people online, who all play PA2 or PA3, are all able to play ping-pong or route-one perfect pitch length balls, regardless of which player they're using.

On manual, stats matter. In the FUMA leagues I play in, the football on the pitch is far more realistic than literally any game you will ever see in myClub.

 

[Emroth]

somehow despite the gameplay being miles better than FIFA ( which i cannot like) it simply lost the soul of PES for me and it´s way boring for me to play more that 2 or 3 games in a row. Maybe i should give a bigger try to the game in PA0, to see if i can check everything mentioned on that Video

See, here's the thing - you shouldnt.
I wasnt trying to defend the game in my posts. I was just trying to explain how "Full Manual" works. Coz it works how it should work.
As for the game - I barely played it since 2018 myself and I fully agree with you that it lost its "soul".
All matches do, indeed, feel boring after a while, but this is down to AI being that shallow. AI individuality is long gone from the series and this is what made it so bad in recent years.
Last glimpses of AI individuality were in Pes18, where certain players still stood out on the pitch. After that AI was just a blob moving along the pitch. And its been like this ever since.
No-Pass-Assist might make it more fun when you are on the ball. It can even make the goals more rewarding, since you can create all sorts of situations there.
But it will not take away the feeling of boredom after few matches. Coz every AI team plays the same..

 

[janguv]

I think I understand the logic. Suppose you're aiming at a 26 degree angle, if the game makes it a 30 degree angle because "stats" then it's not "full manual".

Personally I don't care for full manual. Suppose your virtual player is under pressure from all directions and off balance, should the pass be executed perfectly because "full manual"? But you're not off balance sitting on your couch, the game has to somehow simulate some things virtually. Like pressing, vision, passing stats, errors.

Also, once it's competitive and people care about winning more than having fun, it can still look like shit, even if passing is full manual. Some years ago I watched two guys play competitively with full manual. They didn't attempt to pass the ball unless they had absolutely no better choice. Why pass it when now just keeping it and dribbling is the safer option. It looked just as laughable (perhaps even more so), as a football game with over the top ping pong passing assistance.

Just play full manual with like minded friends if you just want to have a fun game that feels like football, but it's not the solution to any other problem.

Edit: Obviously, I also think that ping pong style assisted passing as seen in recent years is dogshit. There just has to be much less passing assistance by default. Ideally for me a pass should be 50% manual aim, 50% assistance/stats & other context variables, like body position, pressure, etc.

I'm unsure if this is your view or if you're just speaking for the view, trying to flesh it out.

But either way, I'd say you've made the same error (or error on behalf of this view that "on manual stats don't matter") of assuming that manual = stats don't matter as a starting point.

Take this:

Suppose your virtual player is under pressure from all directions and off balance, should the pass be executed perfectly because "full manual"?

The answer is "no". That's not what it means for passing input to be manual. That's an invention of what it means by people who play assisted. Assistance works primarily by compensating for user input error, and adjusting output to where it has determined input was "meant" to go, given the relevant factors: user input (strength, direction) and on-pitch player options. All that's removed when removing assistance is just this.

Just like real life, I can intend to pass in X direction, and wind my leg up to put Y amount of power in, but the ball goes off because I lost my balance, used my weak foot, rushed the ball strike – all these things affect the output, and they do so on FUMA too.

Some years ago I watched two guys play competitively with full manual. They didn't attempt to pass the ball unless they had absolutely no better choice. Why pass it when now just keeping it and dribbling is the safer option. It looked just as laughable (perhaps even more so), as a football game with over the top ping pong passing assistance.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but these guys you were watching just sound shit at playing FUMA, competitively or otherwise. It's really not that difficult after you get over the initial hump – which is basically just unlearning all these weird tricks you used to pull off playing assisted. E.g., lightly tapping the button for a through ball even though the player is 20 yards off – with assistance, it's all you need, so you stop wasting time by inputting more power. On manual you realise oh shit, I barely press the button normally!

If two players are so concerned with losing the ball because they can't play risky passes, it indicates a lack of confidence. One of the greatest things about FUMA is that you can play beautiful defence splitting balls, reverse passes into space, sideways passes that pull defenders out of position etc. All of these things you can do because there aren't fixed tracks like with assisted passes. There's often risk involved here, but you go for it because it's so good when it works, and because you can actually pull it off if you're not new to FUMA.

 

[JosePedroFan]

Are you the same guy that was posting the exact same stuff on the FIFA thread, until its reveal? Trying your luck in this thread now?

Nope, I've never posted anything in the FIFA thread

 

[rockstrongo]

"PaO Is NoT sTaTs dRiVEn"
Every year ,same old story.

 

[raul_ole]

I Hope we will all be impressed on thursday

 

[PRO_TOO]

I Hope we will all be impressed on thursday

we will be! thats for sure!

positive or negative is another story!

 

[h3li0]

You're contradicting yourself here lol...

Clearly you already noticed that shots and passes were slower with Bonucci vs Ronaldo. For more pronounced differences, you should be using lower rated players anyway. And always check out their skill traits – do they have one-touch pass, first-time shot, etc? Those will make a difference.

I don't know why you expect that after 2 or 3 games you will have discovered something (that "stats don't matter" on FUMA setting) which people who have played thousands of games – all of these people – are saying isn't the case lol.

Again: FUMA doesn't mean "free of stats" it means "not assisted". That is at least the idea. And assistance does not mean "driven by the stats". Assistance most often actually overrides stats. That's why people online, who all play PA2 or PA3, are all able to play ping-pong or route-one perfect pitch length balls, regardless of which player they're using.

On manual, stats matter. In the FUMA leagues I play in, the football on the pitch is far more realistic than literally any game you will ever see in myClub.

I´m not contradicting, since i mention strenght, which afects the shoot strenght but as you could read for me placemente was the same, and i cannot feel the importance of stats that much. With PA in other levels you can fell more of it because AI will misguide your passes on purpose, or your shoots acording to the form, and stat, but the outcomes coded are sow few that the game seems dumb and dull, so i can not have a good experience in either of them.

I already explained on the post fo Emroth whats my view of it, regarding stats mattering. On the time i have played i didn´t noticed stats other than the ones i mentioned. I didn´t play only 2 or 3 games, i tried for long on past PES, but i couldn´t like what i felt ( i guess i can not state this as a true because peeople like you have a completly different experience and can see the stats effect).
Maybe it´s because since the game lost it´s soul a long time agoo, and that stats are loosing its predominance on the game since long, that i couldn´t feel or see what you see while playing FUMA. And like me i know a lot of people in the same situation , so i could say the same thing to you, that people i know who still play thousands of games, and all say that Stats on FUMA does not matter "that much". Now which ones are right? the Ones that take FUMA side or the ones that take the other way round? Probably both depending on the experience they had.

I already stated that games feel more realistic when playing FUMA, so the ping pong thing you are saying in other PA levels it´s, completly normal, it always been like that since PS1 games. Try and play a PES 5 or 6 and just press X, and you will see that you can ping pong with whoever player have the ball even without moving on the directional button, and that didn´t make those games less realistic or fun than these new ones, on the contrary. I Had a friend that loved to play PES but he was just not good at it, so to not loose the ball he just keep spamming X button and he could make 10 or 20 passes in a row,.

As for your comparisson of FUMA games in a league with people with the same football mind, it will be always different from a mode that its made as P2W, and where kids just want to win at all costs. Even in FIFA if i play with a friend that has the same mentality of playing football, circulating the ball around without making silly skills, i can play a match that resembles actual football, and i´m talking about FIFA that compared to PES its not reallistic at all.

I get it, you guys have a different experience playing FUMA than i did, and i´m happy for you that at least you could enjoy a football game, thing i cannot for a few years now. For people that used to like PS2 PES games i cannot understand how can this new games be enjoyable.

But PES always provided different experiences to people, even if it´s the same game ( the called Placebo effect). We all know from every single iteration of PES in PS4 that when a patch comes out, some people jump in saying that gameplay is miles better, that shooting is different, that the games feels slower, or more respondive, whereas other have different oppinions, and say that they the patch has broken the game, that it feels more sluggish, or that shooting is more scripted.

 

[fregen]

We are 100 pages in and the best thing that has happened in regards to PES 2022 since that Messi teaser was released is that we now have the same teaser but with Shrek instead.

I'll have a beer now.

 

[Walker™]

Which version of Unreal will they use? UE4 and then upgrade to UE5? Or maybe UE5 from day one? Maybe this is one of the reasons why they've kept everything so secret so far

 

[Skylark1952]

Which version of Unreal will they use? UE4 and then upgrade to UE5? Or maybe UE5 from day one? Maybe this is one of the reasons why they've kept everything so secret so far

They didn’t keep anything secret intentionally...either they are not confident with there product or they just don’t know how marketing works 😆

 

[andyaim]

I've been doing some thinking these past few days.

Evo Web is a great community, and really passionate about the game. Mods, patches, discussions over and over again about the game.
Does it matter though?
Each year there is a thread about the upcoming game and people are writing about what should KONAMI do differently, and then eventually there are many things that didn't go as the community wanted, not even close. And most likely, there are stuff that are being discussed here since some older iterations of the game, and they are still being ignored.
You would think, "but why don't they listen to the community, don't they want to make us happy, we are the ones giving them money after all". You could say the same thing goes for FIFA too.
Well, guess what. They don't want to make you happy, they don't consider you important, and they don't consider this community important. We are just a very tiny percentage of people that plays their game, and most importantly, we are not the ones that generate profit.
You see, long gone are the times when huge companies listened to their hardcore communities like some indie studio or something. Everything now is business.
Look at this thread, 3K replies. 3K replies, about stuff that should be fixed, added, removed etc. Imagine if every reply was from a different person (which isn't, but I'm trying to create a "good" scenario). What is 3000 people for KONAMI? It's absolutely nothing! If every one in this thread stopped buying PES forever, KONAMI wouldn't care because this hardcore community is very tiny in front of the millions of people that download the game for free on mobile (check out those stats), and only care about the latest Iconic Moment MESSI or whatever trend there is. Those are the people that KONAMI cares about, because they generate profit. Not us!
What do we do here, really? We buy the game once a year, and that's it! By reading most of the posts here, one can easily understand that this hardcore community cares too much about only the offline aspect of the game, Master League, and how to make it realistic using mods and patches. However, buying the game once a year and staying offline trying to have a "realistic" experience, is SO not profitable for KONAMI. For the scenario that each of the 3K replies was unique, imagine, 50 euros per year * 3000 people = 150000. You think KONAMI cares about 150000? KONAMI is a huge business, 150000 isnt enough for the electricity of their buildings each year.
Moan all you want here, you are shouting at a dead end. The present (not even the future) is the millions of people that play online and spend billions on microtransactions on the most absurd stuff like skins, faces, cards etc. and don't even care how the game plays, as long as they spend as much as they can in order for their brain to produce dopamine and make them think they feel happy. That's why there is a LITE version, that's why probably this LITE version is going to become the next original version + DLCs.
Am I angry/disappointed that my favourite game has come to this state/mess? Yes. Are we all? Yes. Do they care even a 0.00001%. Absolutely not.

All this, has reminded me a great video from Brian Firenzi released in 2012 about MTV.

Instead of MTV and music videos you can put KONAMI and PES with focus on gameplay and stuff that really matters, and instead of silly tv shows you can put microtransactions and fancy graphics/faces etc. His response is what we actually get.
Not. Their. F***ing. Demo.

There's a lot in what you say. I think that many people have come round to this opinion. I suspect that this is why we don't hear much from fans like Charles and Brian (PES United?) these days. They often previewed more realistic early builds, only to be abused later when the final release proved to be a dumbed down version.

I think after a few years of this happening, the realised that the realistic game they wanted wasn't a top priority for many players (and hence Konami).
Likewise, what happened to the Russians that kept proposing so many ways in which the game could be improved?

But PES sold reasonably well before online gaming, and Master League was big, so I only hope that there's a big enough base of fans to make it worthwhile for Konami to cater for them.
Any corporation is out to make money, and to do well you have to keep your customers happy. The question is, are there enough of us that would like a realistic offline game to make it worthwhile for a developer to produce it?

 

[Ameppe]

We are 100 pages in and the best thing that has happened in regards to PES 2022 since that Messi teaser was released is that we now have the same teaser but with Shrek instead.

I'll have a beer now.

Best Pes meme since a long time.

I've been doing some thinking these past few days.

Evo Web is a great community, and really passionate about the game. Mods, patches, discussions over and over again about the game.
Does it matter though?
Each year there is a thread about the upcoming game and people are writing about what should KONAMI do differently, and then eventually there are many things that didn't go as the community wanted, not even close. And most likely, there are stuff that are being discussed here since some older iterations of the game, and they are still being ignored.
You would think, "but why don't they listen to the community, don't they want to make us happy, we are the ones giving them money after all". You could say the same thing goes for FIFA too.
Well, guess what. They don't want to make you happy, they don't consider you important, and they don't consider this community important. We are just a very tiny percentage of people that plays their game, and most importantly, we are not the ones that generate profit.
You see, long gone are the times when huge companies listened to their hardcore communities like some indie studio or something. Everything now is business.
Look at this thread, 3K replies. 3K replies, about stuff that should be fixed, added, removed etc. Imagine if every reply was from a different person (which isn't, but I'm trying to create a "good" scenario). What is 3000 people for KONAMI? It's absolutely nothing! If every one in this thread stopped buying PES forever, KONAMI wouldn't care because this hardcore community is very tiny in front of the millions of people that download the game for free on mobile (check out those stats), and only care about the latest Iconic Moment MESSI or whatever trend there is. Those are the people that KONAMI cares about, because they generate profit. Not us!
What do we do here, really? We buy the game once a year, and that's it! By reading most of the posts here, one can easily understand that this hardcore community cares too much about only the offline aspect of the game, Master League, and how to make it realistic using mods and patches. However, buying the game once a year and staying offline trying to have a "realistic" experience, is SO not profitable for KONAMI. For the scenario that each of the 3K replies was unique, imagine, 50 euros per year * 3000 people = 150000. You think KONAMI cares about 150000? KONAMI is a huge business, 150000 isnt enough for the electricity of their buildings each year.
Moan all you want here, you are shouting at a dead end. The present (not even the future) is the millions of people that play online and spend billions on microtransactions on the most absurd stuff like skins, faces, cards etc. and don't even care how the game plays, as long as they spend as much as they can in order for their brain to produce dopamine and make them think they feel happy. That's why there is a LITE version, that's why probably this LITE version is going to become the next original version + DLCs.
Am I angry/disappointed that my favourite game has come to this state/mess? Yes. Are we all? Yes. Do they care even a 0.00001%. Absolutely not.

All this, has reminded me a great video from Brian Firenzi released in 2012 about MTV.

Instead of MTV and music videos you can put KONAMI and PES with focus on gameplay and stuff that really matters, and instead of silly tv shows you can put microtransactions and fancy graphics/faces etc. His response is what we actually get.
Not. Their. F***ing. Demo.

It's as you say, Konami doesn't want to please its hardcore community because most of the sales come from casual gamers. It's the same as Fifa really.

I bet Konami makes a lot more money from Pes Lite than the sales of the full game. That's why every year it's sooner and sooner that Konami releases Pes lite. I wouldn't be surprised if this year Pes will go completely free to play, with offline mode and competitions mode being sold as dlcs.

The only way they will go back to listen us is if somehow microtrnsactions would become completely illegal and Myclub would become useless, but until that happens don't expect an enjoyable offline football gaming experience both from Fifa and Pes.