EA SPORTS FC 25

[subtra3t]

You can actually change a lot of things with mods. Including ball friction, weight, air density and TONS of things more. The problem is not that. The problem is defence logic and certain things that I am sure they are hardcoded in the game and if they could be changed, it'd be through locale.ini. I don't have any doubt that EA FC has the TOOLS to be a good sim. Is simply that they chose not to be such a thing. You can see even defenders getting out of the way. That's something terrible.

Dunno, IMHO, you gotta mix both the modding of EBX and locale.ini to get something decent, but at this rate I don't know what you could even change to make those games decent.

FIFA 16/17 are the best IMHO, or the ones that need less changes. 18-20/21 are let's say decent, but already too accelerated, more each year. From 22 onwards is just nosense. Players are fucking faster than usain bolt, the ball goes from one side of the pitch to the other... Just horrible. If it wasn't because CB Jockey and the poor defensive reaction of my players at times, I'd say FIFA 17 is just a great game.

I am still looking for a game where I can feel football is well depicted. For example, PES, has players not being reactive enough. PES 21 has a lot of potential, but players feel simply dull and not willing to respond to your command at times. And if you try to make players more reactive, passthroughs will happen, which is something really frustrating. This doesn't mean PES doesn't have it's ups. The dribbling system with the right stick is way more logical and intuitive than the one from FIFA, and the way players are built, with the whole set of dribbling skills instead of having just stars, I feel is way more interesting, along certain other things, yet I like for example that players in FIFA have Vision as a parameter, something that can be used (and I think FIFA does this way) to see how fast your character calculates certain pass, and if you do it before the player has calculated it, then there's more chance of failing that pass, etc.

Dunno, I feel that each game has some really good things, also in the strategies, but the problem is how they move it to the pitch. In the pitch, FIFA is way to arcade in certain things, yet PES ain't much better, for more than PES fans want to convince you from the opposite. Without mods, there's not a single game I can say it convinces me, cause they are made to play 20 min matches maximum, and I want the complexity of real football. I want to play up to 45 minutes and having to think how to pass or break the enemy defence, having slow tempo, having players moving and creating new passing lines, having to actually look actively for those pass lines and moving the ball around. Having tools to sort the pressure, and also pressure being logical, not the players running like mad all the time, etc.

Again, in my experience, the closest things for me have been FIFA 16 and 17, but the fact that my players tend to be so passive in defence, and even let pass the enemy if I am moving another player to position, or don't run back properly to cover if I am pressing the man with the ball, just throw out the experience out of the window for me. You simply have too much to manage in defence because of the manual defence crap.

I can't remember how PES 2013 and previous felt, but if I already felt 2014 too clunky in movement (and not only because of the long animations) like still evolving from the 8 direction movement, I don't think that previous games are much better.

I'd highly recommend you try out either SP Football Life 25 with the eSim next gen gameplay or the Fanurex Overhaul mod. I think that they are the most realistic football games you can play right now.

Also I remember FIFA 18 pre patch being very similar to FIFA 17, almost like a more polished version of it with some bugs removed and more animations.

 

[Hels The Ronin]

I'd highly recommend you try out either SP Football Life 25 with the eSim next gen gameplay or the Fanurex Overhaul mod. I think that they are the most realistic football games you can play right now.

Also I remember FIFA 18 pre patch being very similar to FIFA 17, almost like a more polished version of it with some bugs removed and more animations.

I already tried both, and players still feel a bit slow and clunky. It is a PES problem.

 

[Chris Davies]

In the gameplay videos you spoiler tagged, were you using any sliders? What was the difficulty? And how did you obtain the v1.0 pre patch version?

The video was v1.0 (which is available in the editing forum, in the FIFA 16 editing thread - some kind soul uploaded the files you need to downgrade your install, but any further questions relating to this should be posted there). I also used Anth James' physics mod for it. I think the difficulty was World Class.

 

[Hels The Ronin]

The video was v1.0 (which is available in the editing forum, in the FIFA 16 editing thread - some kind soul uploaded the files you need to downgrade your install, but any further questions relating to this should be posted there). I also used Anth James' physics mod for it. I think the difficulty was World Class.

Did you use papinho's attribdb mod? It was said that it also helped relieve some of the issues the game had like hyper precise passes and such. And I also made a FIFA 16 mod that put emphasis on defense and team play.

Still, the problem that game had, I repeat again, is that in counters, players wouldn't run back, so the game felt quite unbalanced in favor of counters, and you couldn't play possession with high lanes, happens same in FIFA 17 (yet not so noticeable)

 

[rockstrongo]

I don'g know how much mods do change the game. I have a mod for FIFA 17 that would work pretty good if it wasn't because my defenders DON'T RUN BACK WHEN THE ENEMY COUNTERS. It's a pitty because out of that, the game is just amazing, and I've only installed Doctor Fidel mod (essentially a locale.ini) and changed some things inside it, then fiddled a bit with the game sliders and some settings, and I've got a very good gamepla. Responsive dribbling, good passing, and defenders are way better than recent entries. And yes, still really bad at defending but is kinda ok. If they only tracked back properly both marks or ball carrier, it would be a 100% game.

Still think vanilla 17 is q very good game, though running down/trying to defend the wings was a weak point of Fifa between 15-18 (19 is better at it)
Still a very good game, one if the games i return too when not playing pes

 

[rockstrongo]

What FIFA 16/17 was, bears no relation to what FC is. It's so sad. Expecting any future FC game to "feel" like football is like expecting Mario Kart to become an F1 simulator. What currently exists doesn't support it.

Mods shouldn't enter the conversation - they shouldn't have to exist. It's great that they do, but if the game doesn't already have something - or if something is deleted from it, such as the AI's brains - it can't be added.

I'm starting to feel the same way about sliders. Everyone has different preferences, yes - and (before the last patch totally killed the game IMO) sliders were the key to getting any enjoyment out of the game for some people. So I'm not saying they're useless.

But then again... they ARE useless when the core game is pretty much unenjoyable (like right now) aren't they? I've felt about FC25 from day one how a lot of Career players now feel about it since the last patch - sliders unable to fix anything, i.e. they can't make the AI do basic things all footballers do.

The fundamentals are the problem.

Who cares about making pass speed 10% slower when the ball has no friction and moves like an orb of light? When the contact made with the ball represents nothing about how it then moves?

Well written Chris, I stopped buying FIFA after 20, and shouldn't really have an opinion on FC 25 besides the videos I've seen here and it fucking looks as mario kart trying to dress up as an F1 SIM.
It's quite astonishing how rapid things went downhill.
FIFA 19 was a brilliant game, now 6 games later (started the year after tbh) it's all down the toilet.
Made my peace with it and rather play the good pes/fifaa instead of this, and we all know its going to get even worse right?

 

[NeoRetro]

I don't remember that well about Fifa 19 (i sold my PS4 for a pro and the guy wanted that game for the story) just a bit that the game wasn't to me as good as the 17-18 but still playable.
Now here we talks about mods and other gameplay adjustement we shouldn't even mention.

But there's another problem before it and not only in Fifa but all VS games (even Fighting) is the tons of "corrective" patch that who can destroy a playable game in something.... Weird and with less logic just for the sake of having a small bit of reactivity or success rate, often.
When it correct bugs it's okay, but some of those micro patches may transform a good base version in a not so good one.

 

[fifaccitiu.com]

The game is totally scripted. Setting attributes to 10 for every player (see this squad: https://www.mediafire.com/file/razphbcokntwl0b/AllTen.zip/file) make nearly no difference at all. Around 90% pass and dribbling.

 

[simogto90]

All fifas from 09 to 19, some more than others, are good games.
My favorites are 16,14,11 and 19.
I think 11 is the most balanced,but 16 the better

 

[Matt10]

Those of us still working through FC25's issues are lately really talking about more recent ones like FC24 and even 23. FC25 really messed up with the rigid positioning and now the lack of defensive awareness or effort. It's a shame because there were some promising signs early on. CPU Behavior sliders alone was expected to be the additional quality feature - but like @Chris Davies said, the core of the game is useless at the moment. The fundamentals just aren't there the way they were multiple title updates ago.

This is why I always say you have to know the game you are choosing to play. Trying to dream up what you want with FIFA is just dangerous. Come in with low expectations so the accomplishment of the basics are exciting enough to keep playing. Once the basics are out the window, it's just a matter of time the enjoyment evaporates and we're left waiting for another title update to hopefully reset things. Another dream though.

 

[Hels The Ronin]

Those of us still working through FC25's issues are lately really talking about more recent ones like FC24 and even 23. FC25 really messed up with the rigid positioning and now the lack of defensive awareness or effort. It's a shame because there were some promising signs early on. CPU Behavior sliders alone was expected to be the additional quality feature - but like @Chris Davies said, the core of the game is useless at the moment. The fundamentals just aren't there the way they were multiple title updates ago.

This is why I always say you have to know the game you are choosing to play. Trying to dream up what you want with FIFA is just dangerous. Come in with low expectations so the accomplishment of the basics are exciting enough to keep playing. Once the basics are out the window, it's just a matter of time the enjoyment evaporates and we're left waiting for another title update to hopefully reset things. Another dream though.

We already know how EA works with TU. When UT casuals that don't like and will never like football, start crying, they will make an update that will put things back to their previous state. They could make an actual good game. But they chose not to. Is just a matter of design and the public they want to appeal.

 

[SmichiW]

Does anyone know why the champions league is just one whole league and no groups?

 

[Nisoley]

Does anyone know why the champions league is just one whole league and no groups?

Are you serious? That's the official mode since this season.

 

[SmichiW]

Are you serious? That's the official mode since this season.

really? 🙃 didnt heard about that. Dont looking football in TV or interested in Football, only playing FC25 :-D

 

[SP83]

I believe if Social Media didn't exist, we'd have several very good football games available.

These FUT Youtubers who get tons of views etc... wouldn't get them if the footage they were uploading was a scrappy 0-0 draw.

That's why this game gets updates that basically gets rid of defending, allowing stupid scorelines, stupid unrealistic goals and people lap it up.

It's retro or nothing as far as I can see. I bet most games generate the bulk of their revenue through loot boxes or buying cards these days and no way will a company big enough to make a footy game go down a total opposite route.

The only hope is there is a huge clampdown on gambling. Dress FUT up as much as you like, it's a football casino. You pay money & buy something you have no idea what it's going to give you. No difference from walking into a pub and sticking £30 in a fruit machine.

 

[HeWillKnockFourTimes]

I believe if Social Media didn't exist, we'd have several very good football games available.

These FUT Youtubers who get tons of views etc... wouldn't get them if the footage they were uploading was a scrappy 0-0 draw.

That's why this game gets updates that basically gets rid of defending, allowing stupid scorelines, stupid unrealistic goals and people lap it up.

It's retro or nothing as far as I can see. I bet most games generate the bulk of their revenue through loot boxes or buying cards these days and no way will a company big enough to make a footy game go down a total opposite route.

The only hope is there is a huge clampdown on gambling. Dress FUT up as much as you like, it's a football casino. You pay money & buy something you have no idea what it's going to give you. No difference from walking into a pub and sticking £30 in a fruit machine.

Did seem at some point, there was a real possibility of a clampdown on purchases in games at least marketed at kids (Remember FC is a 3+ age rated game despite the gambling) but it doesn't seem like there's been any news on that for a while.

 

[Hels The Ronin]

I believe if Social Media didn't exist, we'd have several very good football games available.

These FUT Youtubers who get tons of views etc... wouldn't get them if the footage they were uploading was a scrappy 0-0 draw.

That's why this game gets updates that basically gets rid of defending, allowing stupid scorelines, stupid unrealistic goals and people lap it up.

It's retro or nothing as far as I can see. I bet most games generate the bulk of their revenue through loot boxes or buying cards these days and no way will a company big enough to make a footy game go down a total opposite route.

The only hope is there is a huge clampdown on gambling. Dress FUT up as much as you like, it's a football casino. You pay money & buy something you have no idea what it's going to give you. No difference from walking into a pub and sticking £30 in a fruit machine.

Retro is the way to go. Got my best results on FIFA 17 with a mod and a slider setting. The result is just incredible.

 

[Chris Davies]

If it's possible to do this in your football game - it's not a football game.

I'm not posting this to troll, more to make the point that all headers are like this in terms of their mechanics - there's no physics to them, they just have a target to reach and they fly to their target no matter the momentum on the ball. It just so happens in this instance that the target is far enough away that the lack of physics becomes obvious.

This is why FC isn't for me and probably won't be again.

 

[HeWillKnockFourTimes]

If it's possible to do this in your football game - it's not a football game.

I'm not posting this to troll, more to make the point that all headers are like this in terms of their mechanics - there's no physics to them, they just have a target to reach and they fly to their target no matter the momentum on the ball. It just so happens in this instance that the target is far enough away that the lack of physics becomes obvious.

This is why FC isn't for me and probably won't be again.

OMG, even by their standards, that's just terrible. Never played UT but damn

 

[rockstrongo]

If it's possible to do this in your football game - it's not a football game.

I'm not posting this to troll, more to make the point that all headers are like this in terms of their mechanics - there's no physics to them, they just have a target to reach and they fly to their target no matter the momentum on the ball. It just so happens in this instance that the target is far enough away that the lack of physics becomes obvious.

This is why FC isn't for me and probably won't be again.

I'm pumped for FC 26, swear...it's going to be great, track record from Fifa 20 and fw says so.

 

[SP83]

To be fair, I think I once saw John Carew at Villa Park header the ball that far.

 

[Chris Davies]

To be fair, I think I once saw John Carew at Villa Park header the ball that far.

I know (well, I think) you're joking - but if you're not...

You won't have seen any human being head a ball bouncing that softly more than 50% of that distance. It's physically impossible to head something with that much power unless the ball has enough momentum.

This is my point - we have the most powerful hardware ever created, and yet the most "streamlined" (physically impossible) physics and outcomes.

All physics calculations have been replaced with "user wants to pass/score, user can't be frustrated or they'll call our game shit and scripted, send ball to target". It's not a football game, it's a feel-good button-masher (except it feels baaaaad).

 

[Paul-v]

If it's possible to do this in your football game - it's not a football game.

I'm not posting this to troll, more to make the point that all headers are like this in terms of their mechanics - there's no physics to them, they just have a target to reach and they fly to their target no matter the momentum on the ball. It just so happens in this instance that the target is far enough away that the lack of physics becomes obvious.

This is why FC isn't for me and probably won't be again.

I think I've posted about this in the past.

EA has coded the game so that all actions have have a perfect trajectory to a target unless a very rare random chance thing clicks in and it does something else slightly to extreme off from that trajectory. This is why in my mods I've always tried to make it so the "error" version always kicks in instead. Then people bitch and moan because it does that. You can't win with this community. They want perfection but "rEaLiSm" as well. You should've seen the rant I got from someone on Nexus for making the game this way haha.

Unless EA create a brand new proper physics system, it will always be "on rails". I understand from a technical standpoint why its on rails but its too OP for sure.

All physics calculations have been replaced with "user wants to pass/score, user can't be frustrated or they'll call our game shit and scripted, send ball to target". It's not a football game, it's a feel-good button-masher (except it feels baaaaad).

I've been creating a comparison video of my mod versus vanilla. Going back to vanilla is fricken hilarious. I can just keep clicking the pass button and I will easily score. I wouldnt play this game on vanilla. Sliders aren't bad but its not the same as full modding IMO.

 

[Chris Davies]

Unless EA create a brand new proper physics system, it will always be "on rails". I understand from a technical standpoint why its on rails but its too OP for sure.

Completely agree - a fully fleshed-out physics system would be a start, buried in the "sim" switch maybe (which, as it stands, is far too basic to help). But even then...

1) Can you realistically make it into a football game with AI that's allowed to think (crucial for a manager mode - why buy a £100m defender if he watches clouds when you don't hold his hand), AND calculate much more realistic physics for every scenario (no more glue boots, no more pin-to-magnet passing) - without launching two separate games, ran by two separate teams?

2) What reason do EA have to change the game's direction, or change anything at all, considering sales - and considering that every streamer/FUTter who screams about how much they hate the game, buys it and plays it anyway (and always will)?

Yes, they added a "sim switch" and that's the most love we've ever got - but in terms of the impact, it just can't make a non-sim barebones gameplay experience into a sim... And on top of that, the last patch made it much less effective anyway, which brings me to,

3) If the game was ever playable to us, how long would it be until a patch destroyed it?

I don't think FC can ever be the answer for us, I don't see it ever being a football-based football game. But I don't see any competitor coming along either, because they only exist to clone FUT and make some small percentage of its money - and I'm also personally sick of playing the "classics" on repeat when they're predictable after a while. Which is a crap situation when the only games you truly love are football games...

 

[hitmanuk]

View attachment 333129

Before the patch, manual defending was already effective for experienced players, while auto-defense helped less skilled players maintain defensive shape without overcommitting. The AI defense was solid, staying compact and covering zones, but it was still inferior to a human player who could be more proactive in winning the ball back.

After the patch, auto-defense was nerfed to the point where defenders became static and disorganized, requiring constant manual marking. The defensive line now endlessly backs up against attacking runs without proper man-marking or lane coverage. Pressing is ineffective because defenders don’t step up on attackers, and midfielders don’t contribute defensively, making it easy for opponents to play out of pressure.

Now, even well-executed defense can be easily broken down by a competent opponent since the AI fails to react properly. Attempting to press often just opens up spaces, which can be exploited with simple passes, making defending feel frustrating and ineffective.

This sounds super realistic if you are a Man U fan

 

[Hels The Ronin]

I think I've posted about this in the past.

EA has coded the game so that all actions have have a perfect trajectory to a target unless a very rare random chance thing clicks in and it does something else slightly to extreme off from that trajectory. This is why in my mods I've always tried to make it so the "error" version always kicks in instead. Then people bitch and moan because it does that. You can't win with this community. They want perfection but "rEaLiSm" as well. You should've seen the rant I got from someone on Nexus for making the game this way haha.

Unless EA create a brand new proper physics system, it will always be "on rails". I understand from a technical standpoint why its on rails but its too OP for sure.


I've been creating a comparison video of my mod versus vanilla. Going back to vanilla is fricken hilarious. I can just keep clicking the pass button and I will easily score. I wouldnt play this game on vanilla. Sliders aren't bad but its not the same as full modding IMO.

Paul. Does locale.ini still have some use this days? Cause I know it used to unlock some shit and take away some script, activate certain physic based shit, and such. If it does maybe something can be done to actually make the game playable through it aswell.

I think we're more or less talking about the same thing - it's nothing about believing or having to know how videogames work or not. I hope this doesn't come off as combative, it's just a good discussion. No I'm not an animator or gameplay developer. I am a software tester so the UI/UX approach supports content/context is where my line of thinking is relative to gaming. I'm also a licensed footy coach, so proper technique and base fundamentals in the logic have to be supported by what I see on the field - the animations.

I am addressing animations within the context of the logic they need to perform. Animations also play out for the CPU player the user is facing. For example the defensive angle animation (DAA) is one that fights both logic and animation. It forces the defending player to half-sprint out of position for no rhyme or reason. The same thing happened in NCAA 13 and 14 where the safeties would all of a sudden sprint to the sidelines before the ball was thrown - leaving a wide open pass every time. Those animations exist - should they? Not within the context of what I'm doing - no thank you.

Back to footy, in FIFA 16 when a shot was too powerful, the goalkeeper would dive backwards to save it rather than cut it off in the air. In FIFA 17, 18 and 19, the goalkeeper would also dive below the ball's path in the air. In all four of those iterations, the defenders would rarely reach the attackers in the back. FIFA 17 got the closest with the Ibrahimovic shield/post up animation with his back to goal.

I agree with you about the CB Jockey, in the slider world we've discussed that quite a bit, along with the multiple other issues you mentioned. A big one right now, for FC25, is the desire of the backline to sprint back towards their preset defensive line, an issue we saw a lot in FIFA 21. What's worse about this iteration is the rigidness in tactics causes any team with a low-block to perform this way. Pair that up with 1v1 defending for both User and CPU and it's a bit of a pain.

Long story short, yes game focus is of course the issue as it's been all the years - but in year's past they have been made to work through customization, whether that be sliders, game mods, etc. The problem is fighting an uphill battle this year with rigid tactics that prevent animations to remain contextual, which defies football logic. I don't want less animations, I want the right animations to appear at the right time.

Exactly. Problem is not the ammount of animation but how and when they are triggered. They do not follow any kind of logic.

I don't know, at the rate we are going, football games are condemned for sure. We do need some new game to come out and bring something fresh into the genre. Something very simulative, if you ask me, that can be later compacted in less time than a real match. But focus has to be realism and simulation. We DO NEED players to behave logically. Being covering, marking, defending, passing, shooting or any action they perform. And follow physical rules, and not this shitshow we are seeing.