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Bundesliga Thread 2012/13

S-NipE said:
Hoeness did more for football in Germany than anybody else, without him teams like St. Pauli, Alemannia Aachen, Dortmund (YES!) and many others would have been gone into insolvency and Hoeness helped them every time. And he did more to charity than 99% of the rest of the Bundesliga.

And just left aside how steep Bayern developed since he is in this club and lead it. The fact that Bayern is the world's healthiest club in economical terms is nearly completely his work.
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yeah I hear he gave some money to Dortmund (maybe 88 milions) when Dortmund was about to bancrot some years ago !

anyway I don't really like that man , it looks like thief to me.
 
S-NipE said:
Hoeness did more for football in Germany than anybody else, without him teams like St. Pauli, Alemannia Aachen, Dortmund (YES!) and many others would have been gone into insolvency and Hoeness helped them every time. And he did more to charity than 99% of the rest of the Bundesliga.

And just left aside how steep Bayern developed since he is in this club and lead it. The fact that Bayern is the world's healthiest club in economical terms is nearly completely his work.
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Then why did he cheat the government then? How global is Bayern anyways? Bayern according to Forbes is 5th richest behind Arsenal.
 
He's always moaning about City and pushing for us to feel the full force of FFP so let's hope he feels the full force of the German government. Cunt.
 
Godotelli said:
He's always moaning about City and pushing for us to feel the full force of FFP so let's hope he feels the full force of the German government. Cunt.
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SO? Bayern money is ok, problem is with his private acc in suisse bank. Every rich man have acc there because there are no tax (like all tennis players live in monte carlo) and money is from him son private factory. This problem havno nothing ith Bayern and Bayern get that money from FP no Sheik oil...
 
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CroCHEF said:
SO? Bayern money is ok, problem is with his private acc in suisse bank. Every rich man have acc there because there are no tax (like all tennis players live in monte carlo) and money is from him son private factory. This problem havno nothing ith Bayern and Bayern get that money from FP no Sheik oil...
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Did I mention Bayern? No. (but let's not pretend that Bayern hasn't benefited from external money)

I'm glad that you edited out the part where you accused the sheikh of going around murdering poor people for their oil. Some sense in the end.
 
bebo said:
Then why did he cheat the government then? How global is Bayern anyways? Bayern according to Forbes is 5th richest behind Arsenal.
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Yes, but Bayern do have much less debts in contrast do the other four clubs in front of them. Therefore they are more healthy than Man Utd, which should be infront of them in that ranking.
 
S-NipE said:
Yes, but Bayern do have much less debts in contrast do the other four clubs in front of them. Therefore they are more healthy than Man Utd, which should be infront of them in that ranking.
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In fact, Bayern Munich has no debts at all if you count out the stadium debt which is lowered on a regular basis and will be paid off in ~5 years. An additional guaranteed 25 million € yearly as soon as that's done.
Economically healthiest isn't a stretch at all, even though Real, ManU and Barca are more valuable (Arsenal on par).
 
This cannot be true. Hoffenheim was directly relegated until the 78th minute as they wer 0-1 down in Dortmund. And then they scored 2 penalties, to make it 2-1 against the CL final participant....

So these are the current results of the 50th Bundesliga season:

Relegated:
- Fortuna Düsseldorf
- SpVgg Greuther Fürth

Promoted(from the 2. Bundesliga):
- Hertha BSC Berlin
- Eintracht Braunschweig

Relegation, winner will play in the Bundesliga next year:

1. FC Kaiserslautern (3rd, 2. Bundesliga) - TSG 1899 Hoffenheim (16th, 1. Bundesliga)

Great, releagtion with two teams that should be in the second league.

Edit: YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES, goal for Dortmund, Hoffenheim will be directly relegated and Düsseldorf will play the relegation!

Edit2: NOOOOOOOOOOO, this is just not true: Dortmund's goal was disallowed due to an offside decision, everything written above is correct again....

Edit3: Game in Dortmund is over, everything written above is the final result.
 
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Incredible ending of the Dortmund game! Heartbroken for Fortuna!
 
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so badstuber is out again?!?! shit, how unlucky is this guy! my favourite german cb. people go bananas over hummels theese days (who is indeed a great player, but nowhere near as good as people and media seem to believe), but given the choice between the two, i'd pick badstuber for my team with no hesitation at all.
 
Yes, he got the same injury in his knee again and will probably be missing until October or November...:(
 
lo zio, I'll be honest with you here, I've watched many games he played in Bayern or German NT and I can't recall one single game he impressed me in. speaking for myself, he's a pretty average defender I wouldn't even compare with players like Hummels, Varane, Thiago Silva. I'm really shocked to hear that you rate him that highly. but still, I reckon that you must really have seen something in him, something maybe I'll see later.

anyway, I do feel sorry for the guy. The knee injuries are like curse. Wish he can recover quicker than ever. He deserves it.
 
Kanouté said:
lo zio, I'll be honest with you here, I've watched many games he played in Bayern or German NT and I can't recall one single game he impressed me in. speaking for myself, he's a pretty average defender I wouldn't even compare with players like Hummels, Varane, Thiago Silva. I'm really shocked to hear that you rate him that highly. but still, I reckon that you must really have seen something in him, something maybe I'll see later.

anyway, I do feel sorry for the guy. The knee injuries are like curse. Wish he can recover quicker than ever. He deserves it.
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LOL, 4 good games and he is already world class level :CONFUSE:
 
Badstuber is at least on the same level as Hummels, if not better. To say he's average isn't much better than CroCHEF's post.
 
it was only my two bits. I may sound so but I'm not biased against Badstuber at all. maybe I'll be hugely impressed by him one day and he'll be my favorite defender, who knows.
 
Kanouté said:
lo zio, I'll be honest with you here, I've watched many games he played in Bayern or German NT and I can't recall one single game he impressed me in.
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that's because badstuber rarely impresses (unlike hummels). but (unlike hummels) he also never disappoints (wich is much more important for a cb).

hummels is a fantastic player, who, under several aspects, surpasses badstuber. but hummels will also cost u a bunch of games throughout the season, with his occasional lapses. badstuber instead rarely makes a mistake (at least when he's lined up as a cb)

hummels and badstuber kinda remind me of bonucci and barzagli. bonucci is the impressive one, the one who catches the eye.... but if u're building up your team, barzagli is your 1st pick, while bonucci comes 2nd.
that's just my personal opinion anyway.
 
totally agree with your observation on these players' styles and I think it's also where our personal choices differ. also, I admit that I actually sound quite harsh about Badstuber. e.g. Löw always picked him as the first choice defender ahead of Mertesacker, Hummels and Höwedes, I think that also should tell something about his grade.
 
After his transfer to Dortmund Hummels epitomized what I understand under the term "reliable, modern CB" for 2 years straight. It was then his partnership with Subotic, whom he slowly but surely began to outshine and sort of replace in his job as the defensive leader really was at its best level. Mistakes he made were so scarce I couldn't recall a significant blunder during that period if I tried - and even for the very best an occasional hiccup is quite common.
So Hummels only started to become quite a bit more unreliable after fully acclimating in Dortmund, and I really believe that has a lot to do with him getting more and more integrated into the team's offensive build up. Talent-wise, no other German CB (and there are a couple very good ones) comes close to Mats - only oftentimes his skills and efforts as "the first playmaker", if you will, come at the cost of less compact/organized last line of defense. His attacks often remind me of Lucio, who was also an absolute class act in defense, but much more aggressive about his goal-scoring ambitions. Compared to him (again: I loved Lucio back in his Bundesliga day) Hummels is really calm and concerned whenever he takes the reigns and tries to open up the game.
Stuff like the crippled pass against Real in the first leg are still an absolute rarity. He hasn't had a lucky year concerning his health, too. Little injuries often kept him from regaining full fitness and strength. I don't think the current season is the best showcase of his abilities, even though he still had plenty of great matches (The BVB-Real matches were particularly impressive; minus the blunder).

Badstuber only recently surpassed Hummels as a rock-solid CB. Prior to his injury (even earlier than that in the national team) he developed into a true defensive leader. That was mostly to his immaculate defending, though, less about his skills as a footballer. He does strike one as rather old-fashioned and a little stiff here and there. Nothing to be upset about as a supporter, since he's proven time and time again he'll get the job done.
You can't compare the Badstuber of now with the guy who didn't even play on the right position most times back when van Gaal was in charge. Pitting him against fast dribblers out on the sides was pure desperation. The team was lacking options. I believe many critical opinions are still influenced by some horrendous performances back in 2010.
It's much harder for guys like him to impress, simply because of their no-bullshit attitude. Negative impressions, however, are quite easy to leave behind and a real bitch to erase from people's minds - especially for defenders. Badstuber needed lots of picture perfect matches to finally gain acceptance; and to this day many of the more vocal supporters of Hummels, Höwedes, Merte (yeah, there are a few ;)), Boateng and co. just can't quite see "it". It seems Mats Hummels has a much bigger lobby within the ranks of the fans.

It's unfortunate that, yet again, this duo of fantastic CB's won't be able to step up their game in the national team any time soon. Combine them and you absolutely SHOULD have the basis for a world-class defense; only it seems that whenever Löw calls at least one of the two misses the trip. One day ... hopefully.
First and foremost Badstuber needs to heal - for real this time. The same knee-injury back to back cost Mathias Sammer the last couple of years of his great career. But that was over a decade ago and he was past the thirty-year-mark; so I'm not really trying to imply Badstuber might never come back. But it'll take time for him to regain confidence and strength until he can play at the highest level again.

(Jerome Boateng has also developed a lot this past year. He has become far more than just a placeholder for Holger or Mats. He's physically the most impressive of the three and not prone to blackouts anymore, it seems. And this guy is a real alternative for the wings.)
 
Well said.

Badstuber and Hummels are both great. Not sure why anyone would think any less of either one. Shame about Holger's injury. :( This will be a set-back!

Howedes #3 and Boateng #4 are also pretty good and more versatile. Mertesacker is the most experienced obviously but #5 for me.
 
Rentalkid said:
After his transfer to Dortmund Hummels epitomized what I understand under the term "reliable, modern CB" for 2 years straight. It was then his partnership with Subotic, whom he slowly but surely began to outshine and sort of replace in his job as the defensive leader really was at its best level. Mistakes he made were so scarce I couldn't recall a significant blunder during that period if I tried - and even for the very best an occasional hiccup is quite common.
So Hummels only started to become quite a bit more unreliable after fully acclimating in Dortmund, and I really believe that has a lot to do with him getting more and more integrated into the team's offensive build up. Talent-wise, no other German CB (and there are a couple very good ones) comes close to Mats - only oftentimes his skills and efforts as "the first playmaker", if you will, come at the cost of less compact/organized last line of defense. His attacks often remind me of Lucio, who was also an absolute class act in defense, but much more aggressive about his goal-scoring ambitions. Compared to him (again: I loved Lucio back in his Bundesliga day) Hummels is really calm and concerned whenever he takes the reigns and tries to open up the game.
Stuff like the crippled pass against Real in the first leg are still an absolute rarity. He hasn't had a lucky year concerning his health, too. Little injuries often kept him from regaining full fitness and strength. I don't think the current season is the best showcase of his abilities, even though he still had plenty of great matches (The BVB-Real matches were particularly impressive; minus the blunder).
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don't get me wrong mate, i never implied hummels is an unreliable cb. that would be preposterous. an unreliable cb has a lapse in concentration about every other match (or every 3 matches): mexes is unreliable, david luiz is unreliable. mats is on a completely different category. i only mentioned his (relatively rare) lapses, to exalt badtuber, whose lapses are even less frequent.
and of course u're right when u say that this particular aspect of hummels' game is probably tied to the fact that he has a bigger contribution to the development of the plays than other cbs (like badstuber).
anyway, what i'm trying to say is that i didn't mean to diminish hummels value. on the contrary, i meant to highlight badstuber value (whose qualities might appear less evident, as kanoute's post suggested), by mentioning hummels (infrequent) blunders.

having said that, yeah, i do believe hummels is a bit overhyped right now, but that has nothing to do with hummels (who is definitely one of the best out there), but with the approach media and fans usually have to theese situations (they always pick one player and make him a god, while forgetting about other players, like badstuber, who actually deserve the same recognition).

btw is it the same ligament of the same knee or a different one? coz if it's the same ligament that really can't be a good sign for his carreer.
 
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more news on badstuber's injury (from bayern's website)

On Monday 20 May 2013, Dr. Richard Steadman performed surgery on Holger Badstuber in Vail, Colorado. Due to extensive ruptures, the player’s cruciate ligament is no longer functional and was removed. Before the cruciate can be reconstructed using a surgical tissue graft replacement, the incisions and holes from the original op must heal completely.

Until then, Holger Badstuber will maintain his physical fitness in sports rehab. The doctors in charge of the case estimate the player will be fit again in around ten months. The injury is not career-threatening.
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