Bundesliga Thread 2012/13

Congrats. Brilliant team and can now rest players for the CL. I'm never one to kick utd fans whilst they're down ;) but I'm going for 8-2 on agg

Don't want to rain on Bayern's parade but the Bundesliga is abit of a joke this year.

It basically goes:

1. Champions
2. Mid table
3. Mid table
4. Mid table
and so on...

I know Dortmund have had injury problems but it's still funny :LOL:
 
jihado86 said:
it's easy to be the coach of Bayern.
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One would think that Bayern's coach used to be a Barcelona coach, judged by your reaction.

As a matter of fact those clubs like Bayern are the most difficult to coach, at those really big clubs players have huge ego's...ask Mourinho who coacheda certain Spanish team and thatwasn't the big success he expected it to be...
 
it's a different case, Heynckes left a perfect TEAM, and I insist in the word TEAM, a perfect collective and flawless system.
Mourinho took a squad of great players, and he failed to build a team.

besides, it's easier for any coach to have players who reached to ultimate level of proffessionalism (Bayern case) and who are tactically mature.
also the German mentality always makes it easier, they are fast learners, hard workers.
 
mourinho imo still built a great team in madrid bringing some then not so fashionable players like khedira, ozil, di maria, coentrao (compared to what real did in 2009 summer) but he lacked the needed luck. in his first attempt to win la decima, pepe was controversially sent off. in the second one he lost by penalties. in the third one, his team could've turned the things around after the 4-1, but they wasted so many chances in the second leg. maybe he wasn't really a huge success at a club like real but neither a failure at all. imho, he should've never gone to there but this is hindsight of course. he never gets along with superstars.

back on topic, if dortmund didn't have such a crazy injury blighted season or lets say win just 2 games more bayern couldn't have broken the record again. winning bundesliga with such a team is a success, but just technically. what baffles me more, when heynckes was winning the treble he never had such a fuss around him, let alone comparing guardiola has now, the man's retirement was even more highlighted than his successes.
 
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jihado86 said:
it's a different case, Heynckes left a perfect TEAM, and I insist in the word TEAM, a perfect collective and flawless system.
Mourinho took a squad of great players, and he failed to build a team.

besides, it's easier for any coach to have players who reached to ultimate level of proffessionalism (Bayern case) and who are tactically mature.
also the German mentality always makes it easier, they are fast learners, hard workers.
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That's very flattering of you to say, however, I would argue that, after the amazing success all those players had last year, it's quite a remarkable achievement to maintain that level of lust for winning. Guardiola sure took over a brilliant team, but he has also managed to inject quite a big dose of his own, very different approach to the game into said team. He does not strike me as someone who would just tell his players "go do what you did last year" and then sent them out onto the pitch.
Heynckes achievements are tough to outdo in any scenario, since he's won it all. But in the end he also only added the (big) finishing touches on the real change that Louis Van Gaal instigated years ago after the Klinsmann-fiasco. LvG is the often unsung hero in the bigger picture for me. And I couldn't stand the guy. :P
 
yep, van gaal often goes uncredited especially about promoting young talents. maybe it's because of his character, I don't know. as far as I know, he was the coach who promoted puyol, xavi, iniesta and valdes to first team at barcelona. at bayern, he gave müller, kroos, badstuber, alaba, contento their debuts. he also brought robben in and made schweinsteiger a holding midfielder, alaba a full-back (thus switched lahm to the right side).

imo, manchester united should only part ways with moyes if they'd try to bring a coach like van gaal.
 
Rentalkid said:
That's very flattering of you to say, however, I would argue that, after the amazing success all those players had last year, it's quite a remarkable achievement to maintain that level of lust for winning. Guardiola sure took over a brilliant team, but he has also managed to inject quite a big dose of his own, very different approach to the game into said team. He does not strike me as someone who would just tell his players "go do what you did last year" and then sent them out onto the pitch.
Heynckes achievements are tough to outdo in any scenario, since he's won it all. But in the end he also only added the (big) finishing touches on the real change that Louis Van Gaal instigated years ago after the Klinsmann-fiasco. LvG is the often unsung hero in the bigger picture for me. And I couldn't stand the guy. :P
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Good post.
Van Gaal also had a huge influence on Barcelona in the long term even if during his actual period as coach Barcelona were not very successfull.
 
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Rentalkid said:
That's very flattering of you to say, however, I would argue that, after the amazing success all those players had last year, it's quite a remarkable achievement to maintain that level of lust for winning. Guardiola sure took over a brilliant team, but he has also managed to inject quite a big dose of his own, very different approach to the game into said team. He does not strike me as someone who would just tell his players "go do what you did last year" and then sent them out onto the pitch.
Heynckes achievements are tough to outdo in any scenario, since he's won it all. But in the end he also only added the (big) finishing touches on the real change that Louis Van Gaal instigated years ago after the Klinsmann-fiasco. LvG is the often unsung hero in the bigger picture for me. And I couldn't stand the guy. :P
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I agree with everything you posted, except for the Klinsmann part. Though I agree with Lahm that I don't think Klinsmann is a tactical genius, I think he is an excellent motivator and extremely organized in how he carries out his duties (e.g., training sessions, youth national team setup, development academies, etc.). And to be fair to him regarding the Bayern job, he was fired after his team lost to FC Barcelona in the Champions League -- the very same Barcelona side that won a record 6 trophies that season, went on to become the greatest club side in history, and featured current Bayern manager Pep Guardiola. Also, Klinsmann was only three points off the top at that point in the Bundesliga title race when that happened. How ridiculous is that?! So, I'm sorry for the OT, but I just wanted to state that while I don't think Klinsmann is a great manager, I do think he is a good one.

Regarding van Gaal, I know that Pep has immense respect for him as a manager. It was van Gaal that made Pep captain when Pep was just starting to find his place in the side. This may be an interesting read for some of you: http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2013/jan/17/football-tactics-pep-guardiola.
 
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Kanouté said:
yep, van gaal often goes uncredited especially about promoting young talents. maybe it's because of his character, I don't know. as far as I know, he was the coach who promoted puyol, xavi, iniesta and valdes to first team at barcelona. at bayern, he gave müller, kroos, badstuber, alaba, contento their debuts. he also brought robben in and made schweinsteiger a holding midfielder, alaba a full-back (thus switched lahm to the right side).

imo, manchester united should only part ways with moyes if they'd try to bring a coach like van gaal.
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Almost everything is correct, but Kroos was promoted by Ottmar Hitzfeld back in 2007. ;)
 
Van Gaal may be one of the most underrated team builders in the history of football. Look how Gerd says his Barcelona era wasn't that successful (and it is really the feelings most of Barcelona fans have...).

Well, he won 2 consecutive leagues and reached 2 Champions League semifinals. In the history of Barcelona at that time, it was indeed very succesful! He was the one who put Xavi as a deep midfielder, Puyol as a CB (he used to play right back before) and promoted Valdes.

The work he did at Ajax and Bayern is outstanding as well, as many of you note down. The problem: he has 0 charisma. Or less than that.

Mourinho coached the most expensive squad ever assembled for 3 years and won a lot less than expected. He had one of the best teams in front of them (and his personal Nemesis), I too think he should have never gone to Madrid. On the other side, Pepe sending off was controversial, but for the first time in history Real Madrid spent 90 minutes of an european semifinal at home with 0 shots on goal. I think he never understood where he was putting himself into.

About this Guardiola's Bayern, I've watched several matches and it reminds me a lot to the best Barcelona, totally dominating the play from possession and positioning. Cutting the opponent play from root and being efficient. It's very hard to defeat them. Only this time he doesn't need Messi. I wonder how many big coaches in history have been able to chain succesful teams like that.
 
Very good post Alex.
I dion't realise Van Gaal did that well with Barcelona.

Besides that he proved with AZ that he can do splendid things with clubs below the very best, to win the league with Az was a very big achievement.

I have the impression that Van Gaal is a good coach for 2 or 3 years, afterwards it all goes downhill...might be because of his negative charisma...(he has charisma, but the wrong one).
 
I heard about that when Toni made it public (also I posted it here in the Bayern thread then), never really thought it would be true but yesterday I read the full story here(with van gaal and van bommel confirming). some classic quotes from van gaal here also.
 
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Steve-O21 said:
I agree with everything you posted, except for the Klinsmann part. Though I agree with Lahm that I don't think Klinsmann is a tactical genius, I think he is an excellent motivator and extremely organized in how he carries out his duties (e.g., training sessions, youth national team setup, development academies, etc.). And to be fair to him regarding the Bayern job, he was fired after his team lost to FC Barcelona in the Champions League -- the very same Barcelona side that won a record 6 trophies that season, went on to become the greatest club side in history, and featured current Bayern manager Pep Guardiola. Also, Klinsmann was only three points off the top at that point in the Bundesliga title race when that happened. How ridiculous is that?! So, I'm sorry for the OT, but I just wanted to state that while I don't think Klinsmann is a great manager, I do think he is a good one.

Regarding van Gaal, I know that Pep has immense respect for him as a manager. It was van Gaal that made Pep captain when Pep was just starting to find his place in the side. This may be an interesting read for some of you: http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2013/jan/17/football-tactics-pep-guardiola.
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I should define what I really meant by "Klinsmann-fiasco" - because I do not blame him for most of what has gone wrong back then. In retrospect, he just never had the amount of trust a coach who does so many things so radically different would need in any club to ever really have a chance to make it in Munich. Also, the chemistry between him and the club's higher ups was never the best.
It was the wrong move at the wrong time, but in general I think Klinsmann could've been very successful at Bayern, he certainly didn't have quite the pool of players to choose from back in the day.
I won't forget how amazed I was with the football the team played nearing and coming from the winter-break. A high point was a 5:1 against a very strong Stuttgart side in the DFB Pokal and, of course, the games against Sporting in the Champions League. Also, Barcelona wasn't yet "figured out" as the nearly unbeatable team they got to be known as in the years to follow, so our officials took great shame in the 0:4 defeat at Camp Nou in the quarter finals of the CL - just a year or two later, even the biggest spenders (including their domestic rivals Real) kinda always feared results like that, often getting downright thrashed. Bayern simply didn't have the player material to withstand a Barcelona-onslaught back then, which was only partially to blame on Klinsmann.
In conclusion, the "fiasco" part only really accurately describes the outcome of the whole situation and wasn't meant to put the blame solely on him.

gerd said:
I have the impression that Van Gaal is a good coach for 2 or 3 years, afterwards it all goes downhill...might be because of his negative charisma...(he has charisma, but the wrong one).
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It didn't take a week of him working in Germany before that was the most blown up topic in all football-related media. Basically every second question revolved around his strict character, traditional upbringing and conservative attitude.
He is the very definition of "old school" when it comes to social interactions, I guess, but, boy, does he know how his ways in modern football.
 
18 months after his horror car accident Boris Vukcevic visited the Hoffenheim training centre for the first time :)

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That's a great news! Good to see him back, his story will be a true inspiration for millions of young footballers (people) that went/are going through the same things.
 
I just heard he has broken a leg. Our second player in a few days that is out for the WC (although Casteels is only our third GK).
 
Ah, that's sucks. Wish him a quick recovery, he's still young and hopefully he'll be back with the same level he was at.
 
Well, this was a boring match day today. Really hoped, something would happen, my wish was Braunschweig to win and enter the play-offs and Hamburg to be relegated, but like in the last few weeks, all three teams down there seemed to had different plans.

Official result after the final match day is a following:

u6d2q39u.png

Explanation:
CL: Bayern, Dortmund, Schalke
CL qualification: Leverkusen
EL: Wolfsburg
EL qualification: Mönchengladbach, Mainz
Play-offs: Hamburg
Relegated: Nürnberg, Braunschweig
 
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