Arsenal Thread

"As a manager, he soon established himself as a man of strong principles. Van Basten famously dropped regulars like Clarence Seedorf, Patrick Kluivert, Edgar Davids and Roy Makaay and benched Mark van Bommel, because he believed that they were either past their prime or constantly underachieving.

There were also calls for van Basten to call up Dennis Bergkamp, who had retired from the national team six years earlier for a final "hurrah" as he was retiring that season. Van Basten then revealed to the media that he never intended to do so despite Bergkamp's own willingness."
 
Come on, jonney...Van Basten as an alternative for Wenger...i'm sorry but: LOL.
Is that seriously the only alternative you can come with. Van Basten is a big joke as a coach. In Holland alone there must be thousand better coaches than him...Good lord, i'm a coach myself and i'm pretty sure i'm as good as he is...

Guardiola: i'm not convinced about him.

I agree with you that Wenger should stop blaming the refs for defeats, but i think one of his basic policies is never to criticize his players in the media. Maybe he should do that. Maybe Wenger is too much of a father figure for his players.

I'm not saying that Wenger makes no mistakes and that he should alter a few things, but Arsenal will never have a better coach than Wenger...never ever.
 
jonneymendoza said:
Hi.

6 years without a trophy. 6 years of Wenger having no plan B, 6 years without a world class GK and CB's, 6 years without a "Leader" on the field in the same mould as Viera and Tony Adams

6 years of relying on below average players like denilson and diaby, 6 years of trying to pass the ball to the back of the net, 6 years of conceding the exact same goals via set pieces and long hoofed balls, and finally 6 years of Wenger making a joke of himself infront of the media with remarks such as "i didn't see it?, I wont spend, my team is perfect, my team is the best, the ref cost us the game, the sun was too bright etc etc.

So the simple question is, why should he stay at arsenal?
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The bold part f'n made me fall off my seat!! :D :LOL:

:LMAO:
 
The thing is mate, Wenger doesnt NEED to go and spend 100m like city. all he needs is 50m minimum to buy 2 world class proven players and get rid of denilson, diaby and eboue to generate 20m more minimum for those two players and buy another world class/proven player for 20m.

Wenger will also need to somehow convince Fabregas to stay one more season as well as Ashavin, RVP, etc etc. Because, if Fabregas goes, we HAVE to replace him with someone equally as good as him. We cant just promote ramsey/wilshere into fabregas's is role as they do not have that experience yet to step up!

This is why Wenger should go, because i can guarantee you now, he wont do the above and instead buy some unkown unproven player in the summer and replace Fabregas with Ramsey :(

We are only 2-3 players away from dominating the premiership IMO and i really would love Wenger to aknowledge this and still be a arsenal manager for a long time to come but i just cant stand his unwillingness to listen and adapt.

He is a great person. he has done wonders for arsenal and i am really grateful for that, but for me its not all about trophies as it may appear to most here, its about progression and willingness to improve and learn from mistakes. i do not enjoy watching arsenal get beat by the exact same tactics/ways for the past 6 years.

If wenger does the above and buy 2-3 players this summer and keeping everyone in the team bar denilson, almunia,diaby, possibly eboue, then i want him to stay at arsenal next season. But he has to man up. Like i said above, he doesnt need to spend 100m , only 50m and he will be flying next season.
 
Well they keep conceding the same goals from set pieces so it may have a mote of truth that statement.

All they need is a competent pair of centrebacks and a real striker.

They could have signed di Maria and Wenger passed and I always said Cavenaghi was better than Chamakh in terms of intelligent play which suits them and converting chances.

Arsenal de Sarandi have won more than Arsenal in recent years...... :P

I'm not even sure Barca would want to sign Cesc at the moment as Thiago keeps progressing or dependent on ructions at Palermo caused by the president if Pastore decides to leave.
 
ALBICELESTE2010 said:
Well they keep conceding the same goals from set pieces so it may have a mote of truth that statement.

All they need is a competent pair of centrebacks and a real striker.

They could have signed di Maria and Wenger passed and I always said Cavenaghi was better than Chamakh in terms of intelligent play which suits them and converting chances.

Arsenal de Sarandi have won more than Arsenal in recent years...... :P

I'm not even sure Barca would want to sign Cesc at the moment as Thiago keeps progressing or dependent on ructions at Palermo caused by the president if Pastore decides to leave.
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I want to see a couple of defenders a defensive midfielder and a forward player/attacking winger.

I would get rid of Clichy, Denilson, Eboue, Scillachi, Bendtner and Diaby.

The only problem with this, is that it will take some time for alot of players to bed in at once. But We definately need some fresh, hungry experienced players in the team.

New players definately need to come in now though, I don't think there is any doubt in that.

Barcelona will offer a ridiculously low price for Fab again, Which I really hope they won't concisder. But one year less on his contract and he will want to leave.

I also think it might be best to get rid of Fab sooner, I think knowing that he may leave at any season might be a reason why we are not doing so well (Not a major reason, but still one that adds up with the others). Not good for the players to know that Fab might not be there for seasons to come and that brings in alot of doubt.

Wenger looks shot though at the moment and I really think he will make positive changes in the summer. He looks just as fed up with the team as everybody else. Although alot of it is his fault, the team really have let us all down aswell.
 
Biggest let down was not getting players in the January window. I remember Arsene said "Finding players wasnt the problem ,but having too many is". Chels might just edge it too by bring players in the window. David has brought in new life to them and Torres getting a goal might be the cherry on top.

I hope we play smart in the next few weeks ... here`s to belief
 
United practice set pieces. Why don't we? Silly Wenger, week after week he looks more and more frustrated, but how much of it is down to himself?
 
The best time to sign players is in the summer but the problem is prices.

Wenger seems to baulk and his stand is admirable at paying over the top prices for what in many cases are not more than slightly above average players.

But unfortunately in this over inflated transfer market he will have to pay the going rate.

I like Pat Rice seeing as he also used to play for Watford as well before my time but an admirable servant.

However Wenger could do with additional or new coaches to take some of the pressure off him and his micro management style.

With Kroenke at the helm who knows what pressures that will bring to bear on him as well.

The club have already moved their pre season apparently from Austria to the US under Kroenkes instructions.
 
I think Pat Rice is Retiring at the end of the season? So there will be a new coach coming in if that is correct.

January is the worst time to get players as teams know that your team is desperate and will ask for way over inflated prices.
 
Wenger is safe in his position certainly for now PIPA.

If he did leave then Arsenal would probably bring in a manager who plays a similar style of football.

Bobby I agree that it is madness to panic buy in January but even so Wenger just has a problem in paying high transfer prices per se summer or winter.

However the pressure from supporters may well mean this summer sees some high priced arrivals.
 
The problem...is WHO wanna play for Arsenal nowadays? With the team perspective and how things as come...I cant see any BIG profile player wanting a move to Arsenal...maybe good players from the midtable side like Parkers or cahil will move but I cant see a real big profile player wanting a move to arsenal...
 
What Arsenal and Wenger have tried to accomplish is to become an alternative model of success for the whole world. This is an honorable mission, one that is important enough to not abandon for the sake of temporary success.

We all complain about the growing gap between the select few top clubs in the world and the others. We all complain about the increasing concentration of talent in fewer and fewer clubs. It's become harder day after day for non-giant clubs to hold on to their players in the face of uncompetable wages and promises of success. We all complain about the bloated transfer market prices. The ratio of the quality of the players to their transfer fees is becoming ridicilously large as Clubs get desperate for talent. We all complain about the reckless financial spendings of clubs thinning out their financial potential to the limit without consideration for the future for investments that are very questionable.

But when it comes to supporting a model of football that is almost a rebellion against these seemingly unstoppable trends, we readily abandon them for the promise of the same short-term successes at the sake of true football. We always criticise Wenger for being hard-headed and selfish, but how sacrificing and unselfish are we when we demean the ideals and principles of the club for a couple of trophies?

It is significant to note that Wenger's success is not only his footballing results. Its his results, despite not caving in to the pressures of the unfair playing field of football today. So, if we're not satisfied with being consistently in the top 4 and the CL play-offs, being one of the most respectable clubs in the world, and a top candidate for ANY competition we practicipate in consistently for YEARS on end, then next time think of this. These accomplishments aren't bare naked, but accompanied by the principles which Wenger has refused to cave into. He accomplished this with the Flamini's and Hleb's while Chelsea was forking millions on Shevchenko, and Real Madrid on Robben, Sneijder, and Kaka. Now imagine how that makes Wenger feel like, when he is nourishing his players from the ground up and other clubs are using funds that appear magically to skip all these steps Wenger suffers through. And on top he is criticised for not being MORE and MORE succesful.

Guardiola may not be tolerated for so long because he has the luxury to spend €21 million on a Mascherano who ends up as a rotation player and €40 million on David Villa because he didn't like Ibrahimovic. On top, he is at the most infrastructured club in the world with one of the best youth academies.

However, Wenger doesn't have any of these luxuries. If Arsenal is known for its young players, it's mainly due to the efforts of Wenger to cultivate and utilize them. In spite of being called a pedophile, mind you.

I am not saying Wenger doesn't make mistakes. But in Turkey there is a saying called 'burning the blanket because of the flea'. I think not only is it irresponsible and unrealistic to blame Wenger for not being 'succesful', but it is also highly unfair.

So if you think Wenger is a failure/past his prime, please don't applaud players like De Rossi or Totti. Because obviously Darren Fletcher or Bojan Krkic have won far more trophies than any of these two, and therefore are much superior and succesful players.

Also, enjoy football in 20 years where any slightly non-mediocre player is stocked by the leading 5 clubs in the world and the rest are stuck to Conferenfe National quality players. And of course, amongst them, any one who shows any slight sign of potential will be immideadtly swooped up, and those clubs are stuck with semi-proffesional smokers with beer guts.
 
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the overal reason why many want wenger gone is because he hasnt addressed the same issues that we have had 6 years ago. that is an awful lot of patience and time for Wenger to learn from mistakes.

i mean come on, does it take more than 6 years to teach Almunia how to deal with crosses better? Or to teach all our defenders how to deal with them?

And are you telling me these players earning above 50k cant shoot outside the box either?

Many of us love what wenger has done. no if's or buts, but the constant mistakes all boils down to Wenger and the prime reason why people want him to go, not because of being trophyless for 6 years as we do not have a divine right to win it every year. BUT, if you taste success, you get spoiled and you want it most of the time so anything less then a trophy is a failure and thats the human way really whether we like it or not.
 
Fantastic post AK Rabona. I couldn't agree more with you...those are the reasons whi (as a Spurs fan) i really love Arsenal.

And if a player does not want to go to Arsenal, to which club does he aspire? Not all players can go to Real Madrid, Barcelona, Man Utd and City...I'm pretty sure not all players want to go to those club, not even all the best players want to play for them...

Eden Hazard is seen by many as one of the best young players in the world, he wants to go to Real Madrid and...Arsenal...

I'm pretty confident clubs like Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs can still attract top class players.
 
Great post AK Rabona - am pretty much in total agreement as have said before on here. The only thing I'd add is that, perhaps due to choice, perhaps due to circumstance, Fergie has become a pretty big believer in the Wenger model over the past 6 years.

Neither have spent loads on established players (except the Berb/ Arshavin) both have nourished their youth programs and given chances in the first team and both have produced a whole slew of players not quite good enough, who are now playing at various levels at other teams.

That United have had some success over the same time is partly residual, and partly just good fortune. Who could have guessed Ronaldo would become a one-man wrecking-ball, and also stay fit for 3 years? If United win this season it will only be because the points total is so low. United and Arsenal both have the means to produce squads that can manage c. 80-85 points in my opinion. If you want to get above that, you need to be the biggest spenders, and neither club will be able to hold a candle to City or Chelsea in the upcoming years.

Maybe that's what makes it so sad for Arsenal this year, and puts so much pressure on United to make it over the finish line. The future isn't looking any brighter. There was a time when you could blood 4 or 5 youngsters in the first eleven and still compete, but when City can literally buy 25 established, quality internationals in just 2-3 years, it's almost impossible to do that anymore.
 
AK.Rabona,

Well said you put it nicely. I do feel Arsene Wenger is a manager that practice what he preaches. Many manager have the utmost respect on what he does by means of staying to the script/principles. He is imo the last samurai whose days are being counted. It became a cut-throat business where substance means ALL! Wenger will most likely turn away from his ways and fold into the pressure it might not be the same for him if he wins a trophy . Like introducing the microwave to my grandmother in the late 80`s that was hard to see my grams using a micro-wave for a digital clock :COAT:
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Beachryan,

How you can compare Mutd w/ Arsenal.... Berb £30 vs Arshavin £16 you lots spend £7 on homeless player :SHOCK: . I have NO sympathy when I see Mutd supporters aving a go on City`s spending . You lots been spending maybe not as much ,But more than any clubs for DECADES mate! PLZ, Mutd success on Luck! Now, I`ve seen it all :LOL:
Mutd will win the title and that is a good achievement in terms of not spending ,but don`t talk like this is Mutd`s business as usual practice . I have NO PROBLEM with City spending on 25 top class players ,because I lived through MUTD n Chelsea spending for a few years 1 more team won`t do me in. I pray ManCity gets in the 4th , not the 3rd obviously I will love it! bring some flair and stronger players the league needs it and I want it.
 
Players would come to Arsenal.

However most players and in particular their agents are pecuniary to the extreme and nothing more than mercenaries.

The wage structure at Arsenal is pretty fixed and tightly controlled so they are less likely to pull in a big fish than say Chelsea where the mafioso is willing to fork out extra money to land his man ie Torres.

Unless Arsene opens the purse strings the status quo will remain the same.

It will be interesting to see if Kroenke pressurizes Wenger to splash out or maintain his current policy.

The previous experience with American owners in England has not exactly filled most football fans with joy whether it is Manchester United, Aston Villa or certainly at Liverpool.
 
beboq said:
AK.Rabona,

Well said you put it nicely. I do feel Arsene Wenger is a manager that practice what he preaches. Many manager have the utmost respect on what he does by means of staying to the script/principles. He is imo the last samurai whose days are being counted. It became a cut-throat business where substance means ALL! Wenger will most likely turn away from his ways and fold into the pressure it might not be the same for him if he wins a trophy . Like introducing the microwave to my grandmother in the late 80`s that was hard to see my grams using a micro-wave for a digital clock :COAT:
---------------------------------------------------------------

Beachryan,

How you can compare Mutd w/ Arsenal.... Berb £30 vs Arshavin £16 you lots spend £7 on homeless player :SHOCK: . I have NO sympathy when I see Mutd supporters aving a go on City`s spending . You lots been spending maybe not as much ,But more than any clubs for DECADES mate! PLZ, Mutd success on Luck! Now, I`ve seen it all :LOL:
Mutd will win the title and that is a good achievement in terms of not spending ,but don`t talk like this is Mutd`s business as usual practice . I have NO PROBLEM with City spending on 25 top class players ,because I lived through MUTD n Chelsea spending for a few years 1 more team won`t do me in. I pray ManCity gets in the 4th , not the 3rd obviously I will love it! bring some flair and stronger players the league needs it and I want it.
Click to expand...

Again, the usual stick to beat United with. As I tried to articulate, in the past 6 years both United and Arsenal have not spent nearly as much as their opponents, indeed both are near or in the bottom half of the net transfer spend table.

As I've said before, City have already spent more in the last 3 years than United have cumulatively spent since the premier league started. There's a big difference between buying 1 or 2 players to augment a squad, and buying a squad.
 
It does come down to luck in alot of ways, but then you have to make decisions to make you more lucky.

Theres so many ifs and buts that obviously sound like moaning/bitterness etc, but I just dream of what could have been.

Imagine if Adebayor wasn't a dick? Imagine if players like Hleb and Flamini wanted to stay with us? imagine if Arshavin wasn't such a soppy sod and actually played to his ability on regular occasions? imagine if Walcott didn't get injured so much? imagine if Van Persie was fit for the last 3 seasons? imagine if our young players actually lived up to their potential?

These are the sort of things that you can't predict as a manager and you can only go on what you have at that time. Wenger wasn't the only person to think that alot of our youngsters were going to come good, maybe he waited longer than he should of to realse they were not going to be as good as first promised. But there have been quite a few occasions when they have looked bad and then they have a great game that makes you think, look they can play that way, the potential is still there. So it is hard to get rid of them. Diaby is a great example of that.

If Adebayor, Flamini and Hleb had not left then I think that we would have a very strong team....all ifs and buts.

But a team like Man Utd keep these players, because of prestige etc but they keep them. It's a problem Arsenal have as a team, Players think they are better than Arsenal and want to move on. This is something Arsene can't stop and I think is one of the big reasons why we are where we are at the moment.

Imagine if Adebayor's head didn't become as big as the sun? and Van persie was fit like he is now? we would have one of the best strike partnerships in the league, if not the best?

We have been on the brink of another great team for a while now, but just as you think we are getting there, a player leaves etc and we go backwards.

I do think top players will want to move to Arsenal, but only the ones that can't won't go to Real, Barca, Chelsea, Man United etc and that leaves us with less to choose from. So I do think fans have to be realistic, just because we have 40-50mill to spend doesn't mean a player worth lots of money will want to come to us?

I hope and pray we get experienced players in the team, that will compliment the team as a whole and that will appreciate being at Arsenal...we will see.
 
Well, the whole thing about Mutd is that they revenue so much money from different outlet it`s unreal. Mutd doesn`t need a star player there like a McDonaldo they can sell worms as french fries and ppl will buy it.

On commercial brand alone (getting ppl to support their brand)a year figures:
Arsenal 40 mil :COAT:
Mutd 100 mil :CONFUSE:

Imagine when they get their Tv rights, hence why so many foreigner owners dipping into PL Clubs.Mutd will be like Michael Jackson in popularity :LOL:
 
Yeah, but despite our obscene revenues, we piss it straight back out again to the Glazers.

The league is somewhat fortunate those lot took over, otherwise United would literally have about £75m an off season to spend which they made themselves.

Sigh.
 
Nasri isn't signing his contract at the moment, but they said they are waiting until the summer. But it does look ominous.

If he does leave though it will be the same thing that happened with so many others. They have a good/great season and then as soon as other 'better' teams might come in for them they leave.

There is not much you can do about that unless you throw money at them, but in alot of cases if a 'big' team is after them then it doesn't matter how much money we give to them.

The same happened with Adebayor, Hleb, Flamini, Anelka etc.

So you can say what you want about Wenger, but he is getting the right players in, it's just keeping them that is the problem and I don't think that is Wengers fault as much as it is the stature of our club.

Unless a player has grown up with us eg Fabregas, then it is very hard to keep a player that has had a great season and the worlds big club,s with great histories and where money isn't a question are after them.

Nasri is a great player on his day, but is another that seems to be to inconsistant. Great first part of the season and then not so great second? I'm sure if we kept him though he would get better and more consistant, but now other clubs are sitting up and noticing, then it is going to be hard to keep him.
 
He's been brilliant Bobby to be fair, he's only 21 so this was his first year were hes turned potential into being a top player. That consistency will get tuned and he'll become even better.

15 goals and 4 assists with a 3-4 to is a very good season.
 
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