Arsenal Thread

Rentboy said:
Ramsey is repaying Wenger's trust and belief in him. Also not playing him right winger helps a lot :P

Excellent performances by Rambo lately, and the way things are going (who would've thought) Arteta will find it hard to get back into the first 11.

Özil is a wizard with his passes in the final third. Walcott could have scored twice with his assists and once more with an awesome Giroud assist.

We rave about Ramsey and our new signing Özil - and rightly so in both cases - but for me Giroud has been instrumental not only grabbing the goals but setting them up as well. He provided the assist for Rambo's 2nd and gave a fantastic assist to Walcott in the 1st half, when he missed (again).

Vermaelen made an appearance after recovering from injury, and if we think we have Arteta, Ox, Podolski, Rosicky, Cazorla and Mertesacker all to recover from injuries here and there, we have a pretty good squad. With the exception of the CF position.
Should Giroud miss games, we have only Bendtner, Sanogo and Akpom to rely upon - and that's nowhere good enough.

Apart from that, our squad is nicely built.

PS: at the final whistle yesterday, our team had all 4 full backs in it!! Sagna and Gibbs, and Jenkinson and Monreal as improvised wingers!
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Every time you mention Ramsey doing well you have to add in that Wenger tried him out in the wrong place before :LOL:

I agree Giroud has been great, his all round game up front is great and he gets back and defends aswell. Lon may it continue and with Ramsey aswell :))
 
I've always thought he had it in him after seeing the first season with him and jack. I was hoping he would come good and he has now. It's quite a long period aswell as it started at the end of last season his form and has carried it on.

I really hope he can continue and hope Jack can start producing this season aswell.
 
Im a little disappointed w/ Jack this season. He seems to hold the ball too long and make these runs into narrow places. 'Look at me dribbling into nowhere'. I saw Ozil create space and rarely hold the ball (hopefully it wasn`t due to sickness) He moves gracefully and I can`t wait to see him and Cazorla in action.


I like and agree what Wenger is doing in the final 10 minutes. To have all 4 fullbacks on the pitch, is correcting our past mistakes. AVB thought it was due to his team`s efforts. Now, he knows its part of the plan \0/ !
 
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Yep jack hasn't been great this season, but I expect him to pick it up, still early days.

He has got a lot of competition now when arteta and rosicky come back aswell, he needs to start otherwise he might find himself szczesny'ed for a while.
 
were doing great going forward and holding the possession, but without the ball, WOW we are shocking! We look like a team with no desire to win balls back and that how we will loose points all year long if we continue to defend like this and to leave space for the opposition to put ball in dangerous area.
 
I kinda agree with this, but with Flamini things are changing. It was a very low profile signing, Flamini, for being on a free and all that. But I'll tell you, this signing will be instrumental for us. He fit like a glove in our midfield protecting our back four and providing cover and he's also aggressive when trying to nick the ball back - him and Koscielny are the most aggressive ones in this respect (Koscielny has to knock it off when he's inside our bloody penalty area though).

Our squad as a whole is looking pretty good at the moment. Of course you can always improve, and I'd personally like to see an up and coming don't-mind-being-a-sub CB as a 4th option added to the squad so we don't have to use Sagna improvised there too often;
Also a new striker to be in contention/cover for Giroud - which is our most obvious need at the moment;
And finally, goal keeper - I'm still not convinced by Szczesny and think he's an accident just waiting to happen at the next corner. I still find it strange we got a new goalkeeper to provide cover for him. This Viviano guy either should be starting matches or he's not better than Szczesny (in which case his signing is more or less of pointless).
If Szczesny dips in performance or does "a Szczesny" as usual, then Wenger would drop him and give Viviano a chance - and that would crush Szczesny's confidence. I reckon it would have been much much better to get an obvious first team choice in the shape of a top class keeper (could have been even Julio Cesar), then Szczesny wouldn't feel as bad if he got behind in the pecking order.

Let's see what Wenger does in January. Out of these options, I'd wager he will go for a striker, as this is our most pressing issue.
If I were Wenger I'd send a neat suitcase full of unmarked bills in the amount of £30m to Dortmund and persuade them to sell Lewandowski for that handsome price instead of letting him go on a free to their biggest local rivals Bayern Munich. I think this would be pretty reasonable, wouldn't it?


BobbyBox said:
Every time you mention Ramsey doing well you have to add in that Wenger tried him out in the wrong place before :LOL:

I agree Giroud has been great, his all round game up front is great and he gets back and defends aswell. Lon may it continue and with Ramsey aswell :))
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Yeah, that's more of a dig at Wenger and an apologetic nod at Ramsey, for all my impatience with him :)
But it does make a lot of difference to some players, to be played in their optimal position. Ramsey had no business in the attacking flanks!
I was talking to a few Arsenal fans lately who used to criticise Arshavin heavily, and they admitted that seeing Ramsey's improvement, they feel a bit for the Russian.
 
Rentboy said:
Yeah, that's more of a dig at Wenger and an apologetic nod at Ramsey, for all my impatience with him :)
But it does make a lot of difference to some players, to be played in their optimal position. Ramsey had no business in the attacking flanks!
I was talking to a few Arsenal fans lately who used to criticise Arshavin heavily, and they admitted that seeing Ramsey's improvement, they feel a bit for the Russian.
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and you bring up Arshavin again :LOL: you can't help yourself!

He played a handful of games In that attacking wing position and you won't let it lie. Some could argue that Ramsey's new found goal scoring form could be because of that stint in a more attacking role? You never know.

Even when Ramsey was back in the centre everyone picked up on his mistakes like he was the worst player in the world and was saying he should leave at the very least be dropped etc

Wenger kept his faith with him and I think that shows much more of what Wenger is like than keep mentioning the few games where he tried Ramsey in a different position.
 
Well Bobby, i've also been thinking about Arshavin. I can't understand why Wenger barely used him at this best position...
Such a fantastic player....
 
gerd said:
Well Bobby, i've also been thinking about Arshavin. I can't understand why Wenger barely used him at this best position...
Such a fantastic player....
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The thing is Gerd We have had the conversation in this thread a million times. My point is whenever rent boy mentions anything it is usually followed by a negative and bringing up something that happened a while ago.

Why can't you just say Wenger did well sticking with Ramsey? Instead of bringing up the time he tried something different for a few games with Ramsey that didn't turn out that great?

The whole Arshavin thing has been done to death but Rentboy will bring it up every time for some reason, it's tiresome.

Maybe Wenger should have played him in his favored position more maybe Arshavin could have been more motivated? Maybe maybe maybe maybe. Nobody knows and why go on about it? Let's move on and talk about the current team and how the players Wenger has bought in seem to be doing quite well at the moment.

Or here is a negative, Wenger should have bought a striker, I think our team still needs a couple of players of real quality to really be contenders for more trophies. That is in the here and now.

Wenger has done lots of things wrong, he has done lots I things right.

I've said this before but it won't change anything :LOL: I think Rentboy will bring up Ramsey and Arshavin when he is an old man ;))

I don't know why it annoys me so much but it does :))
 
It does seems to annoy you, that was never my intention.
To me what happened to Arshavin at Arsena is a waste of talent. If such a talented player never plays, we all loose. Football looses.

But yes maybe, nobody is to blame...maybe Arshavin (like Reyes) was just homesick (oh and wasn't there a story about Arshavin at the beginning of the season, something completely bonkers ?).
 
gerd said:
It does seems to annoy you, that was never my intention.
To me what happened to Arshavin at Arsena is a waste of talent. If such a talented player never plays, we all loose. Football looses.

But yes maybe, nobody is to blame...maybe Arshavin (like Reyes) was just homesick (oh and wasn't there a story about Arshavin at the beginning of the season, something completely bonkers ?).
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You don't annoy me Gerd :)) (nor does Rentboy.....only when he brings up Ramsey and Arshavin :PP)

I didnt hear the story at the beginning of the season?

I'm just hoping we dont all have another debate about Arshavin, I feel like it crops up every other month and the same conversation happens about him again, it's like groundhog day (groundhog every other month).
 
I'm with Gerd on this one, it was a loss to football and a player doesn't just "forgets how to play" overnight like that. Looking at his first year and a half compared to the 2009-10 season when Wenger changed systems, he looked like a completely different player. Of course, like you say, other things could have played a part too, but I clearly remember that was the time when things started to go pear shaped.

I defend Arsh because he's got what I like to see in a player, he's got pure raw talent and I've always thought he is a joy to watch and got the wrong end of the stick both at Arsenal and at the Russian National Team.

But mind you, I bring this up because I'd like to draw a parallel between what happen to him and what could happen to players like Ramsey and Cazorla. And I hope Wenger doesn't mismanage these men like what happened in the past.
Cazorla was my favourite player last season, and many people (fans, experts and pundits alike) thought the same. The fact it was his 1st season in the Premiership speaks volumes.

Now Özil playing for us is a wonderful thing, but I'm a bit concerned about where it will leave Cazorla and where he will be playing. I hope not as a winger, being burdened with the duties to track back and cover for our somewhat maverick fullbacks.

I just don't want to see history repeating itself with another of my favourite players, that's all.
Hopefuly Wenger will find a way to use both players in a comfortable position and that will be mouth watering!

As for the extra striker, I don't know what Wenger was thinking, but he definitely shouldn't have placed all his eggs in the Mourinho-controlled basket when he tried to signed Demba Ba on deadline day.

I had very little hopes our new kid Sanogo could somehow step up and make an impact when we need him - echoing what a young 18 year old Anelka did many years ago. But I don't know about that anymore, when Giroud was subbed Wenger used Chuba Akpom! So, is Sanogo falling in the pecking order or is there some fitness problem with him?

For the record Bobby, I certainly will be talking about Arshavin's 4 goal masterclass at Anfield when I'm old! :LOL:
And hopefully I'll be talking about Ramsey too, as the boy who had a bad leg break, got over it and became one of the world's best players. That's what I wish for the lad anyway ;)
 
It's weird because I saw a fat, unmotivated player that was let down by his own mental fragility as the reason he didn't fulfill his huge potential, a player happy to collect his wages than move on when it was clear his time was up at Arsenal. I look at these things more than getting played a bit to the left of where he usually played. It's not as if he was playing as a central defender.

As we all know (because we have had this conversation at least 1 million times) I blame Arshavin much more for the way his career went at Arsenal, more than I blame Wenger :-)

As I have said its the way you always go back to negatives, it's annoying. I don't even think Arshavin is all Wengers fault as I said and with Ramsey he was played in that position for a few games and it didn work out. Sometimes it doesn't, but if Wenger never tried things out or took risks, we probably would never have bought in half of our legendary players, played Thierry Henry upfront, play the football we have become known for (although lost over the last couple of years) etc etc

To dwell on two players and their respective situations every time! Is just crazy IMO.

'we won the league, but do you remember that time when Wenger sharted? That was bad' (I hope we can say that first part of the sentence soon :)), the second part not so much )

You act like Arshavin was a little baby and had no bearing on his own career and you act like Wenger played Ramsey in the 'wrong position' for a whole season ignoring that he isn't performing there. He played him for a few games there initially because of injury and then because he saw something there that might be worked on, seeing his finishing now and the position he picked the ball up in for his second goal this weekend, Wengers decision doesn't seem so crazy and as I said Ramseys new found form and his eye for goal could be attributed to his little stint in the 'wrong' position. But he saw it wasn't working and then stopped playing him there, it was a handful of games.......but you keep beating Wenger with it, I just don't understand it?

Anyway same discussion over and over again :))
 
Hahahha You're one funny dude Bobby, you say you get annoyed discussing those things but you're the one not letting it go now, aren't ya? :P

I merely justified why I brought that stuff up from time to time, and the reason is because it could apply to some of our players in the future.

I'm not interested in discussing the ins and outs of that anymore. That's now in the past and we should look at the players who are at the club and what will happen next.
I really don't wanna see "fans" giving grief to Cazorla when he comes play for us as a right winger after a 20 hour flight coming from a pointless international friendly in Panama or something... cause you know, that's exactly what happened in the opening match of the season, sections of fans booing Santiago fucking Cazorla, for fuck sakes. It was right after he got disposessed and Villa scored a third goal.
Wenger should've known better instead of playing a knackered player improvised in unfamiliar roles.

If I want to remember more absurd stuff I don't have to think too much, just remember Gervinho as our sole target man, for instance. That's the stuff that does my head in, really.

Ramsey now is scoring because he's playing in his position, yes, he's more confident, comfortable, composed and (what's most importantly) he comes from behind and appears as a surprise factor. I doubt he'd perform the same way if he gets deployed again as a winger or a striker.

One thing you have to give credit to Ramsey is that he'll work his socks off for the team, he even played a half as right back last season and finished the Villa game as centre half. I'm glad he didn't let his head down during the tough times and now he's collecting the rewards. But not all players are like this. Not all people are like this, in all walks of life. It's something I can't put my finger on, it's in their nature and personality. You can sense that in people and it's down to the manager to... manage those things and make his choices.

I don't even know why we're talking right now about the bad stuff that went on because the team is in great form, got momentum, high in the league table, etc.

But one thing I do know: when you complain that I always counterbalance my comments on good things with negativity, it isn't because I'm a grumpy fucker :LOL: We can't be exactly over the moon here because at the end of the day we're still 8 years trophyless, Arsenal is a big and rich club and Wenger will only shut my mouth when we start winning things again.

Let's hope for an era of prosperity from here on out, marked by this great signing that is Özil, by more truly big signings like this and by not selling our best players at discount prices for rivals within our own league! (talk about slipping in some negativity huh?) :P But hey, this is true, I mean it and it's of the utmost importance, because no one does this in this League. At least not the truly ambitious clubs. Chelsea didn't let us have Ba (who will rot in the bench way behind the pecking order but no matter, uncle Roman will keep paying his wages just so we can't have him), and Liverpool won't let us have Suarez, especially not after that infamous bid. We've looked like lonely practitioners of the art of selling our talent to internal competitors (namely City and United) and we'll have to stop doing this. Wenger has also to protect his back so it won't be stabbed by a Van Persie again. So I think (not only Wenger's fault here) we will have to improve the way we do things when renegotiating contracts. Right now Sagna is my concern. He's been fantastic for us, both as fullback or centre half, really dependable. But they're letting him enter a final year of contract now - what are they gonna do about it?? I hope they sort this out and he stays.

I also maintain that Arsenal shouldn't renew Wenger's contract right now. I'd rather wait and see how we do til the winter break and beyond. And how he deals with this January transfer window too. For the brilliant coach and leader he is, he has to show he will be comfortable dealing with these modern football's figures that are the norm in the market now. Özil's signing simply can't be a one-off, it has to be a shift in the way the club does things.
For all the great things Wenger did and no matter how much we love the man, I'd like to see these things changing first!
 
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BobbyBox said:
It's weird because I saw a fat, unmotivated player that was let down by his own mental fragility as the reason he didn't fulfill his huge potential, a player happy to collect his wages than move on when it was clear his time was up at Arsenal.
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Doesn't really tally with what Wenger saw week in, week out in training even in Arshavin's last year, when it was obvious he wouldnt remain at the Emirates.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-don-t-question-arshavin-desire
 
Personally i don't doubt Wenger here, but sometimes coaches don't tell the truth in media like this to give a hidden message to players.

It is very well conceivable that the opposite was true and that Wenger somehow wanted to give Arshavin some sort of hidden warning...

As much as i want to believe this, it isn't conclusive IMO.


PS: who is he doing with Zenith (he did went back to Zenith, didn't he or have i dreamed that ?).
 
cfdh_edmundo said:
Doesn't really tally with what Wenger saw week in, week out in training even in Arshavin's last year, when it was obvious he wouldnt remain at the Emirates.

http://www.arsenal.com/news/news-archive/wenger-don-t-question-arshavin-desire
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He has a player that he hardly plays and wants to move on. Is he really going to say that he is lazy and unmotivated?

Its like somebody trying to sell a car and saying how shit it is.

I could see it on the pitch when he played and so could many others.

I think Wenger could have played him more in the center, but as I have said before I see this as about 15% of why Arshavin didn't fulfil his potential the other 85% falls at Arshavins feet imo.
 
The facts are Wenger will always maintain good standing with players.I would expect Arshavin coming to train w Arsenal in the winter break if he fancy it.
 
Wenger didn't have to move him on, his contract was ending anyway. You could say Wenger wanted to do him a favour, or whatever you like.

Wenger also had been lauding Aaron Ramsey's talent all the way through, so would you say he was talking shit there too?

The truth is, he works with those men every day and he obviously knows them better than us. Whatever we say here is conjecture and guessing.

Even Diaby, if you look at a few performances he had 1 year ago, imagine what that guy could have been if it wasn't for all the injuries.
 
Rentboy said:
Wenger didn't have to move him on, his contract was ending anyway. You could say Wenger wanted to do him a favour, or whatever you like.

Wenger also had been lauding Aaron Ramsey's talent all the way through, so would you say he was talking shit there too?

The truth is, he works with those men every day and he obviously knows them better than us. Whatever we say here is conjecture and guessing.

Even Diaby, if you look at a few performances he had 1 year ago, imagine what that guy could have been if it wasn't for all the injuries.
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I did say whatever I like, thank you :))

Just because somebody talks shit on certain situations doesn't mean he talks it on everything. If Wengers wife asks if her arse looks big he probably says no, it's a way of life.

But you see with Arshavin without Wenger saying anything you could see Arshavin was holding a few extra pounds and wasn't giving his all in matches and didn't seem motivated.

With Ramsey you could see the great potential and what a good player he was before his injury and glimpses after. It's a great thing about having your own eyes and opinion, you don't need to rely on everything everybody else says and you can call bullshit on things or think there is a hidden agenda for people sayin things.

Just because we have fickle impatient fans that wished Ramsey died when he wasn't playin well doesn't take away from the fact that Actual rational people/fans could see his potential and think he could come good again and progress as a player.

So Wenger saying that Ramsey has been good player all along, I think he as right from what I have seen.

From Wenger saying the stuff about Arshavin and comparing it to what I have seen and the situation, then I smell some bullshit there.

I agree with the conjecture thing and it is very true most of football fans discussions are based on it probably 95% because we never truly know what happened in any given situation.

I don't get your point with Diaby?
 
Why would he say it though? Arshavin was out of the door for free by that stage - his contract was up. Wenger could have just said nothing (did he say a lot about Campbell leaving (1st time) or Pires leaving in similar circumstances?), or damned him with faint praise, said something like, "Yeah he's good in training like all the players all the players". But the praise was gushing, "he is working absolutely every session at 100 per cent commitment", "He is an example to everybody", "He is absolutely fantastic".
 
My point is that Diaby is a player Wenger is always waxing lyrical about, and that he's probably right - however we don't see it because the man is always on the treatment table.

Arshavin has had that physique ever since he joined, except when he was banging in the goals I bet he looked like Mo Farah in the eyes of the same Arsenal fans that booed him later :LOL:

As edmundo said, Wenger didn't need to "sell a shitty car" as you put it. The player was practically out the door already. Wenger could've just said "he's a good player but it didn't work for us, but we wish him the best" or something along these lines, but he went out of his way to say the player was alright, he was professional, etc.

So yeah, I'd take Wenger's words at face value, whereas your opinion represents that of a portion of fickle fans who have a simplistic view of the matter and describe the player as a pie eating, money grabbing lazy bastard. It's much easier to divide the world into villains and heroes, isn't it?
 
I know you respect Arseblogger and we have had an argument before about how in the know he is etc and hat he really knows his stuff and has connections related to Arsenal, he wrote this about Arshavin

http://arseblog.com/2013/04/the-sad-decline-of-andrei-arshavin/

I agree wholeheartedly with him in this subject.

As for what Arsene said you are right it was just before he was leaving, but if everything he said was true and everything you are saying is true about his ability, then why wasn Arsene playin him at all? Why did no major club come in for him after he was loaned to Zenit? If you Rentboy can see that it was glaringly obvious that Arshavin was played out of position and he was motivated and gave 100% whenever he was on the pitch, then surely all of the top managers around the world would see this and snap him up for a bargain price?

You see Wenger could have said it for a number of reasons. To let him leave on a good note because he liked him (as I think all Arsenal fans did, I really liked him) why didn't he say it at the beginning of last season if it was true, that would have been the best time to say it? But at the end it's a throw away comment where he wishes Arshavin well and try's to increase the guys confidence and his reputation before he leaves. I really don't know, all I know Wengers actions, the actions of other big teams not showing an interest for a couple of seasons and he was on the shop floor speaks volumes to me, no matter what Wenger said.
 
It's not only me who sees he's been played out of position, mind you. I don't want to go in circles with this, but you make me look like I'm alone in this when it isn't true, plenty of others come in here with the same opinion.

What really went on we will never know, maybe Wenger will include a mention to this in his book I'm so eager to read one day.

This article by Arseblog is based on his opinion, not so much in cold hard facts. The fact is that Arshavin lost space in the squad and fell back in the pecking order - but the real reasons for this will remain unknown to us for a while.

But there's a very serious omission by Arseblog in his article when he says that stuff about a forward being deployed in a forward position. He totally ignored the fact that wide attacking players in England are expected to do much more defending than in Spain, since he insists on drawing that comparison with Ronaldo and Messi - you don't see Ronaldo and Messi helping their fullbacks or even doing much defending in their defensive half for that matter. Arseblog sounded biased as hell there.
And let's face it, especially before Bould, our defence was much easier to beat and our fullbacks ventured forward without a care. Without a true DMF our team was never balanced as it should IMO. Now with Flamini back and a more solid back four, it's a different story.

Even at the worst period of his career (when he was loaned back to Zenit) Arshavin looked like a whole different player in the Euro 2012. Still not busting his guts to go back and defend, but dangerous and creative in Russia's offensive play.

Like all my opinions here, I don't pretend there was nothing wrong with Arshavin, I don't like to simplify things like that. And, like on many occasions, I agree that he shouldn't have stayed at Arsenal just collecting his pay checks. If you are a football player and you care about your career, you should be playing - and with salaries paid nowadays, he probably has enough money for his next 2 generations or more. So in my opinion he should have let go this lucrative contract at Arsenal and go play first team football elsewhere even if for less money.

We've had problems offloading some players now and in recent past - Bendtner is one we couldn't offload because he won't accept a smaller salary.

At the end, as much as the Arshavin move proved ill fated in the end, I still think it was more worth a try then putting the likes of Bendtner and Denilson on that kind of money because out of those, at least Arshavin was an international star, unlike the others.

At 32 unfortunately it is very unlikely for us to see the Russian getting back to his best, but I'm curious as to how he will fare with Zenit in the Champions League.
 
It's going to be a tough match tonight, they have some really good players and came second in the league last season and doing ok this season.

Some people are talking like it will be easy, but I think it will be a difficult one. Hopefully we can keep our away record going and get the 3 points.
 
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