Arsenal Thread

BobbyBox said:
Because they are morons! 'Uhh Duurrr Dey booo our player so we boo derss Ugghhhh' they felt like they have to boo, because we booed Shawcross. They don't seem to understand why we booed Shawcross and they don't realise that them booing Ramsey makes no sense and makes them look like fucking idiots.

Pulis and his fans moronic clapping and smiling when they thought refs decisions weren't going their way. They really are dicks, they give it hard and when our players do the same, they go all whiny and stupid.

They really are a team to easily dislike.
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They are a fucking twats mate. How can you boo a player who got his leg broken
 
Never before have I seen such a more disgusting bunch of inbred mouth breathing sacks of shite. It looks like being a scumbag is a rule in that place.

Booing a player who got his leg broken by one of theirs just makes them the most classless set of fans the Premier League has seen in a long time. This is why I hope every year they get relegated. No to mention that bloody abysmal "football" they play.

Their thuggish fans also seem to enjoy trolling Arsene Wenger, with the masks and mimicking, etc. It's funny we don't see it in any other fixture. This is the one where Wenger gets picked on the most. They might eagerly await "The Wenger Show" every season. Maybe they're just needy for entertainment there, because they're certainly not getting it from football.
 
Of course there has to be one smartass who disagrees and of course it's me.
I think you guys are over reacting concerning Stoke and their fans.

I agree that it's disgusting to abuse a player whose leg was broken by own of your own players. I don't like Stoke's football and Tony Pulis does not strike me as being the nicest guy.

And now comes the inevitable.

BUT.

Did all the Stoke fans abuse Ramsay (or formulated otherwise, are all of you scum because some Arsenal fans booed Eboue when he was playing for you? I don't think so).
Stoke play a very physical football that i don't like, but they get good results with it and this with a small budget. Give Stoke the financial cloud of Arsenal or Spurs and who knows what sort of sexy football they would play.
About Pulis: he's far from my favourite manager, but IMO he is a very clever manager who gets great results. He should be respected because he does a great job.

Now be honest, would all this have been an issue if Arsenal would have beaten Stoke? Maybe a litle bit, but not as much as now...

As for the trolling of Wenger: that is not a very classy thing to do, but not all people are as intelligent as me and Jonney (think about a smiley here) and on top of that in a way i can understand them.

Wenger and Stoke are on opposites sides of the football spectrum. Wenger stands for culturate, attractive short passing football with emphasis on skill over physical play. Stoke stands for the long ball and a way of playing where physicality is more important than skill...

Remember what is said about Messi. Can he do it a torrential thursday evening at the the Brittania? By lots of people Stoke are seen as the villains of football because of the way they play whereas Wenger is seens as the saviour of English footbal (also by me regarding Wenger by the way). So in a way i can understand the reaction of the Stoke fans although they could act with a lot more class...

There are 15 teams in the EPL that i prefer to Stoke, but in a way i admire them.
 
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gerd said:
Of course there has to be one smartass who disagrees and of course it's me.
I think you guys are over reacting concerning Stoke and their fans.

I agree that it's disgusting to abuse a player whose leg was broken by own of your own players. I don't like Stoke's football and Tony Pulis does not strike me as being the nicest guy.

And now comes the inevitable.

BUT.

Did all the Stoke fans abuse Ramsay (or formulated otherwise, are all of you scum because some Arsenal fans booed Eboue when he was playing for you? I don't think so).
Stoke play a very physical football that i don't like, but they get good results with it and this with a small budget. Give Stoke the financial cloud of Arsenal or Spurs and who knows what sort of sexy football they would play.
About Pulis: he's far from my favourite manager, but IMO he is a very clever manager who gets great results. He should be respected because he does a great job.

Now be honest, would all this have been an issue if Arsenal would have beaten Stoke? Maybe a litle bit, but not as much as now...

As for the trolling of Wenger: that is not a very classy thing to do, but not all people are as intelligent as me and Jonney (think about a smiley here) and on top of that in a way i can understand them.

Wenger and Stoke are on opposites sides of the football spectrum. Wenger stands for culturate, attractive short passing football with emphasis on skill over physical play. Stoke stands for the long ball and a way of playing where physicality is more important than skill...

Remember what is said about Messi. Can he do it a torrential thursday evening at the the Brittania? By lots of people Stoke are seen as the villains of football because of the way they play whereas Wenger is seens as the saviour of English footbal (also by me regarding Wenger by the way). So in a way i can understand the reaction of the Stoke fans although they could act with a lot more class...

There are 15 teams in the EPL that i prefer to Stoke, but in a way i admire them.
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We all knew you were going to disagree :PP

The booing about Ramsey is the major thing for me and it is a major thing.

Also it used to be Pulis saying/smirking/being smug that Arsenal didn't like it rough (Which is fair enough), but he used to make his teams come out too rough imo and not have any regard for the players on our team. Which I think is very wrong, when players think it is ok and are encouraged to do dangerous challenges.

But now we are fighting back and giving as good as we get, he starts calling us dirty and sarcastically clapping the ref and the linesmen if things don't go his way. He is a petty little man and not a man that can be respected in my eyes, his mannerisms and actions seem to be rubbing off on Stoke supporters, which is very bad for their reputation.

You can see when he does all this as well he keeps looking back at Wenger, I saw him do it a number of times during the game. It is if he wants to get a reaction out of Wenger, which also is scummy. Probably because the last time they clashed he got lots of column inches, it is probably the highlight of his season, which just sums up the sad little man.

He has done well with Stoke, with what he has, granted, but he can do it all with a lot more grace(not in a footballing way.) and humility.

We also have to put up with Sam Allardyce again this season, both from the same school of cuntiness :PP
 
If Stoke had the financial power of Arsenal or Tottenham they would sack Tony Penis in a heartbeat, get a decent manager in and start playing some football for a change.

It is very clear that he told the team to "rough Arsenal up", because it was even echoed by his players. That Fuller guy they had for striker before Crouch said on a number of times how Arsenal didn't like it if they got into their faces and roughed them up a bit.
They've always played physical but this statement reveals that against Arsenal they went overboard with it. Next thing you know, Aaron Ramsey has his leg broken by a reckless challenge.
This Saturday, Cazorla picked a pretty bad challenge on his ankle (fortunately it was a standing tackle and didn't do much damage) and the fans were booing Cazorla! How can you begin to even comprehend this behaviour?

As someone posted on Twitter: "When they start opening up schools there, they will learn the truth about the leg breaker" :LOL:

One thing is for sure though. Arsenal is learning how to cope better with this style and we saw how Stoke were pretty much denied most of the match. So much so, that they started doing the diving thing. It was Pennant, I think, who ridiculously went down in the box.

And also towards the end of the match, when they were too tired, they clearly wanted to slow down the tempo by diving in midfield a couple of times. At one point The Ox was even joking about the size of the guy who had just went down so easily. They are a very very cynical team, Stoke. Make no mistake.

These things their hypocrite fans will never see. And all that ironic clapping from their manager. Tony Penis is a cunt, that's all there is to it.
 
Although personally i don't like it, there is nothing wrong with "roughing up" the game. That is when you mean by it to make it a very physical match within the limits of acceptance.
If you mean that Pulis asked his players to injure other players, that is several bridges too far. But you don't have any proof about that. IMO one should not make those allegations that unless there is crystal clear proof.

Don't understand me wrong. I love the way Arsenal plays a million times more than what Stoke does. But Stoke are the underdogs and they have the right to make it a more physical game if that is a way to make it difficult for the favourites, unless they injure players on purpose. I know that football is a cynical world, but i can't believe players would do that with fellow professional players.

Oh and rentboy, i enjoy to discuss with you, but (with all respect) calling Pullis 'Tony Penis' is from a similar level of class as booing a player because he broke his leg. You are better than that, man. It's only football.
 
Good post gerd.

And this myth about Arsenal playing lovely football annoys me. They used to, many seasons ago. But their side-to-side football has been a bit boring last season or so. I have seen some very poor play from Arsenal in recent year.
 
Ok, it's Tony Pubis from now on then. Believe me Gerd, this is the sweetest thing you will hear about him from an Arsenal fan. If you think this was heavy, you would be surprised by what you'd hear at some football terraces. I can imagine the amount of abuse that will be hurled upon that guy when he and his Orcs come to North London.
And I don't see how making a joke about someone's name is as classless as booing a player who got a broken leg from one of your players? I really don't.

Football wise, teams are in their right to adopt their approach. But just being underdogs isn't enough for me to have any sympathy for them. I'd much prefer to see Swansea prosper than those neanderthals.

Swansea defeated Arsenal at their ground last season and I said hats off to them. And they're still reaping the rewards this season, they're doing fantastic.
It's nothing to do with the result we get there, it's the manner they play.
I'll support Swansea any day instead teams like Stoke, West Ham, etc.
 
Well Benni, i don't agree with you. To me Arsenal are still playing among the best football in the world. But that is subjective.

Rentboy, i never said i had sympathy for Pulis and Stoke, i was quite clear that i don't like them, but i think against big teams like Arsenal, teams like Stoke are allowed to be very pragmatic. Like i said, i draw the line at intentionally injuring opponents. If that would be true, Pulis should get a lifelong ban. But i don't believe this for a single instant.
 
Benni said:
Good post gerd.

And this myth about Arsenal playing lovely football annoys me. They used to, many seasons ago. But their side-to-side football has been a bit boring last season or so. I have seen some very poor play from Arsenal in recent year.
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I agree I don't think we play as good a football as we used to, we are sort of living off of our legend a bit. But we do still have glimpses, it hasn't gone completely and when we are playing well, the good football comes to the fore. But that hasn't happened too often recently.

I don' think the feeling towards Stoke is a superiority thing anymore anyway (It may have started that way, but not now) I just think Arsenal are pissed off of the way their manager acts and their fans, they are less 'violent' than they used to be (although there were a couple of challenges at the weekend that were like old times and were dangerous).

At Gerd, I don't think he goes out and says break legs! or anything like that, but he encourages his players to go in very hard. You can't encourage that type of play and then when your players do break legs, say how the players aren't those sort of players etc and they didn't mean it.

It's like a person that encourages drink driving, they are not going out to kill somebody, but because they drink and drive often, then just because they didn't mean to kill somebody, doesn't really mean much does it?

He encourages behaviour in his players that increases the chances of major harm coming to his opponents, he doesn't mean for them to get badly hurt, but it still happens. This means he should be held accountable for it and should be disliked imo :DD
 
There are no accusations from me implying that he tells his players to go break legs. I'm just saying that they fancy themselves as the bullies of the league and their favourite target is Arsenal, judging by declarations such as that from their striker.

Pretty much like Bobby said, when you throw caution to the wind then you're likely to see what we saw with Ramsey.
 
Dear oh dear, today I read that Theo Walcott is our latest contract rebel, as he's refusing to sign a new deal.
To which I say 'Really?!?'
It wouldn't take a genius to realise it would happen. If no agreement could be reached in July, he should have been put up for sale in August. But instead, they let things come to a head 72 hours from transfer deadline. Now Arsenal run the risk of seeing Walcott walk away on a Bosman and receive nothing for all the effort put into the player.
I really don't get this one. They even sorted out the Song situation, which wasn't a priority given his healthy contract situation. But in my mind it was always Van Persie and Walcott who should be sorted, with only 1 year left.

Just when I thought the club learned lessons from 1 year ago by making 3 early signings, then these late departures put us right back where we were.
Now we need a DM and a Winger as replacements. 72 hours!

As for Walcott, I have no issue with him leaving. I mean, if they player feels he can earn £100k a week, then fair enough, but not at Arsenal he won't. I'm just unhappy with the way he and his agents were stonewalling renewal talks, always postponing it. First they waited to see if we got a CL spot, which we did, then there was the Euros, then vacations, then he was mourning the death of his Chihuahua, then...?

I just hope Wenger has prepared for this situation, having lined up the right replacement and has his finger on the trigger now.
 
Yeah it is a big shame, I don't think he is a great player so not too fussed if he leaves and also getting 15mill for him would be good....BUT only if we sign a player to replace him. He is too inconsistant and obviously thinks he is a lot better than he is, which I think means he has lost some hunger/motivation for the game (Because if he feels he warrants 100k a week, then he must feel he is near the finished article, which he clearly isn't), which could explain his inconsistency?

72 hours doesn't sound like a lot but they would have known before this that there was a slim chance Walcott would agree to our contract offer, so I am hoping they are lining up a replacement.

I thought he did ok last season and was defending him, but he did just ok. It is a shame we invested so much time and effort in him and now he is off, but fuck it! he is part of the players that have been involved in us winning nothing, so our slate gets even cleaner :LOL:

Sounds like he has the choice of Liverpool or Man City (They are always after our players!) Liverpool will obviously be a step down, but they will probably be willing to pay his wages. Man City he will get the wages and will probably win things, but I doubt he will play very much.

Anyway, its fun being an Arsenal fan :SHOCK:
 
Theo is part of a English core, giving him 1st choice in the starting 11. He would sit where Johnson sat at City,but 3x richer?

Liverpool is the hype team for sure the talk is loud,but will their football be anything but that at the end of the season? They have no CL stage for the last few season, he will get plenty of playing time plus they pay top dollar. He will regret it once Alex OX ,Gibbs and Jack playing NT and their careers going further.
I have all the confidence in the world that Wenger has players n agents on the wing to bring in.
 
Theo has hit an age where he should be claiming a first XI spot. He should be stepping up to the plate by now. Unfortunately he hasn't been living up to the expectations and he cannot warrant a first XI spot, let alone a £100k a week salary.

His agents were saying they wanted to hold talks and see if Arsenal qualified to the CL. We got it, no playoffs required, so things should have gone smooth. But it seems to me that money is the sticking point here and he is just stringing the club along hoping to move on a free. With a Bosman move, surely he would find suitors willing to pay the money he wants. It's all part of the game. I've got no problems with that, this is just business, but Arsenal should have done something about it by now.

At the end of the day, if he signed for Liverpool, it would just make his requirements of CL football look ridiculous. Now that would be ironic.

And I'll tell you what, at Liverpool he will not be in the starting XI either, that's the tragic/comic part of it.

But to be honest, I've stopped caring whether the club gets money for him or not. In the end, the money will not be reinvested anyway.
As we speak, Tottenham are on the verge of signing Dembele with the money from Modric's transfer.
What are Arsenal doing with the £15m from Song and £22m from RvP?

I think Arsenal fans should make themselves heard. The most expensive ticket in the League, cashing in with sales of our best players. What else is needed to see groundbreaking signings?
This current team is not gonna challenge for the title, and it's really frustrating to realise that as early as August.
We will be left once again with that feeling that we were lacking only 2 or 3 experienced players to be able to mount a challenge for trophies, but we'll have no one to blame other than this Arsenal board.
 
Rentboy said:
Theo has hit an age where he should be claiming a first XI spot. He should be stepping up to the plate by now. Unfortunately he hasn't been living up to the expectations and he cannot warrant a first XI spot, let alone a £100k a week salary.

His agents were saying they wanted to hold talks and see if Arsenal qualified to the CL. We got it, no playoffs required, so things should have gone smooth. But it seems to me that money is the sticking point here and he is just stringing the club along hoping to move on a free. With a Bosman move, surely he would find suitors willing to pay the money he wants. It's all part of the game. I've got no problems with that, this is just business, but Arsenal should have done something about it by now.

At the end of the day, if he signed for Liverpool, it would just make his requirements of CL football look ridiculous. Now that would be ironic.

And I'll tell you what, at Liverpool he will not be in the starting XI either, that's the tragic/comic part of it.

But to be honest, I've stopped caring whether the club gets money for him or not. In the end, the money will not be reinvested anyway.
As we speak, Tottenham are on the verge of signing Dembele with the money from Modric's transfer.
What are Arsenal doing with the £15m from Song and £22m from RvP?

I think Arsenal fans should make themselves heard. The most expensive ticket in the League, cashing in with sales of our best players. What else is needed to see groundbreaking signings?
This current team is not gonna challenge for the title, and it's really frustrating to realise that as early as August.
We will be left once again with that feeling that we were lacking only 2 or 3 experienced players to be able to mount a challenge for trophies, but we'll have no one to blame other than this Arsenal board.
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Well that is a depressing post! This was brought on because we are selling Walcott?!

I don't think fans making themselves heard at the moment will do the club any favours as that usually means demonstrating etc and that will not help the club at the moment will it?

Lets wait until after the transfer deadline and then go crazy if he hasn't got in reinforcements. A post like yours seems a bit premature at the seeing as we haven't sold him yet and we don't know who Arsene is bringing in.

Again we have spent quite a lot of money over the last 2 seasons so I don't like us resorting back to the age old sayings that Arsenal aren't investing the money, because they obviously are.

Also what can Arsenal do in the Theo situation? They obviously wanted him to stay and Theo and his agent made it look like they wanted to and said that a deal could be struck. But it didn't work out, Theo and his agent has used Arsenals situation in selling Song and Van Persie to try and get the upper hand over Arsenal and squeeze out more money for him and they have put Arsenal in the shit because of it.

It really is suprising how players that spend so much time at a club can just piss all over it. Walcott could have signed a deal two years ago (Which is when Arsenal tried to do it) for 5 years got more money for it and then in 2 years time which would be now, he could have handed in a transfer request if he really wanted to leave and we could have got top dollar for him. But no he grinds down his contract and tries to hold us to ransom, which is just dispicable (Of course if true).

Anyway, we should wait and see what happens at 11pm on Friday before we start moaning it doesn't seem like a long time, but as we saw last year a lot can happen in that time.

Just hold your horses before you go all doom and gloomy :))
 
You don't need to replace Theo IMO, your wide options are still very good in Chamberlain/Podolski/Gervinho/Arshavin.

M'vila and another striker is the way to go.
 
BobbyBox said:
Well that is a depressing post! This was brought on because we are selling Walcott?!

I don't think fans making themselves heard at the moment will do the club any favours as that usually means demonstrating etc and that will not help the club at the moment will it?

Lets wait until after the transfer deadline and then go crazy if he hasn't got in reinforcements. A post like yours seems a bit premature at the seeing as we haven't sold him yet and we don't know who Arsene is bringing in.

Again we have spent quite a lot of money over the last 2 seasons so I don't like us resorting back to the age old sayings that Arsenal aren't investing the money, because they obviously are.

Also what can Arsenal do in the Theo situation? They obviously wanted him to stay and Theo and his agent made it look like they wanted to and said that a deal could be struck. But it didn't work out, Theo and his agent has used Arsenals situation in selling Song and Van Persie to try and get the upper hand over Arsenal and squeeze out more money for him and they have put Arsenal in the shit because of it.

It really is suprising how players that spend so much time at a club can just piss all over it. Walcott could have signed a deal two years ago (Which is when Arsenal tried to do it) for 5 years got more money for it and then in 2 years time which would be now, he could have handed in a transfer request if he really wanted to leave and we could have got top dollar for him. But no he grinds down his contract and tries to hold us to ransom, which is just dispicable (Of course if true).

Anyway, we should wait and see what happens at 11pm on Friday before we start moaning it doesn't seem like a long time, but as we saw last year a lot can happen in that time.

Just hold your horses before you go all doom and gloomy :))
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I know Bobby, this was a very negative post. Lately I've been posting some positive things here, backing the manager, but these last 2 weeks changed the way I feel.

It's not Walcott's possible departure that is making me feel down. Van Persie leaving was expected, Song's transfer caught us off guard, but ok we accept it. Even Walcott. It's perfectly understandable that if the player doesn't want to renew a contract, the club has to sell. But what the club can do is replace.

I was quiet about it before, but now here we are again starting a new season with a profit on transfers! In financial terms: Cazorla + Podolski + Giroud < RvP + Song. Even if Walcott stays, we're in profit. Well, great! The business is doing very well, but the football team isn't getting any better now, is it? As a fan who doesn't own a share at Arsenal (and occasionally goes to the Grove to see a match or two) I'm not happy with this current state of affairs.

The tone of voice in my post is more of resignation. We cannot do much except blame the club. The board. I don't think it's Wenger's fault, as it wouldn't make any sense to self-sabotage your performance like that. I still back the manager and think he made a miracle last season, but if things go on like this, his over achievement will not suffice anymore.

If Chelsea keeps up this pace, that makes it 3 teams out of our reach. Even with Wenger, we can't keep expecting a happy ending, with that CL spot that we've grown accustomed to consider a success. Other teams are getting really strong, while Arsenal keeps money in the bank.

It's saddening that the club refuses to actually invest, instead of reinvesting.
Some great players are out there, if the club was willing to spend. Adam Johnson who went to Sunderland! We missed out on Sahin. Llorente, Jovetic, Dembele, Tiote, etc. These players are feasible. I'm not asking for a landmark signing here.
 
bebo said:
Theo is part of a English core, giving him 1st choice in the starting 11. He would sit where Johnson sat at City,but 3x richer?

Liverpool is the hype team for sure the talk is loud,but will their football be anything but that at the end of the season? They have no CL stage for the last few season, he will get plenty of playing time plus they pay top dollar. He will regret it once Alex OX ,Gibbs and Jack playing NT and their careers going further.
I have all the confidence in the world that Wenger has players n agents on the wing to bring in.
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3x richer? Arsenal have offered him 75k a week, City wouldn't pay him 225k a week...
 
I think theo is on 55-60k....I said City because their Arsenal club card is still valid to the rest of the year :P 3x is just an example of their resources.
 
bebo said:
I think theo is on 55-60k....I said City because their Arsenal club card is still valid to the rest of the year :P 3x is just an example of their resources.
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Arsenal club card? Is there some kind of points reward system; if you buy X for £15million over the next 5 seasons we will give you 15 points?
 
Wenger should buy Fellaini or M'Villa. I know Fellaini is excellent, but I don't know much about M'Villa. In fact, I feel as if he is overhyped a bit?

Also, we definitely need a striker. Giroud can be an ok rotation player, but I don't think he is much better than Chamakh or Bendtner. Maybe Llorente. Similarly like M'Villa, I know he has made a reputation for himself, but I don't know much about his playing style. I'm a little reluctant with him as well and think his hype could be greater than his actual talent. But on the contrary, I think having this 'Spaniard Gang' could have a positive influence on the team with Cazorla and Arteta.

For this reason, I would like Navas as well. He's an excellent player. I've been folliwing him since 2005-06.
 
Now the papers are saying Walcott is staying. If a deal can't be done, then it looks like he will either go for half the price in January or for free next summer?

Unless he plays out of his skin in the next 4 months and he actually shows he deserves the money he is asking for?

Who knows, I've given up on second guessing now :ROLL:
 
According to the Guardian, Wenger is interested in Edin Dzeko. Would be prepared to pay 18 million for him. He's a good player, but i hope this does not mean that Giroud will be the next Park or Chamakh...
 
gerd said:
According to the Guardian, Wenger is interested in Edin Dzeko. Would be prepared to pay 18 million for him. He's a good player, but i hope this does not mean that Giroud will be the next Park or Chamakh...
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That would be great, but I think we have room for the two, plenty of games to go around :))

Van Persie was just ridiculous last season, but he played too many games. We need to be able to have players we can sub on, so Giroud can come on in games or vice versa and they can both be rested when needed.

I would be very happy with Dzeko, but would he come to us?
 
AK.Rabona said:
Wenger should buy Fellaini or M'Villa. I know Fellaini is excellent, but I don't know much about M'Villa. In fact, I feel as if he is overhyped a bit?
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I'm not sure on the M'Vila deal, as he and Giroud supposedly had a falling out at the Euro's and i'm not sure if Wenger would want to add that egotism to the team. God forbid we seem to have had our clutch of them over the years - Nasri, Fabregas, Gallas, Van Persie, Song.

AK.Rabona said:
Also, we definitely need a striker. Giroud can be an ok rotation player, but I don't think he is much better than Chamakh or Bendtner. Maybe Llorente. Similarly like M'Villa, I know he has made a reputation for himself, but I don't know much about his playing style. I'm a little reluctant with him as well and think his hype could be greater than his actual talent. But on the contrary, I think having this 'Spaniard Gang' could have a positive influence on the team with Cazorla and Arteta.
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Agreed on creating a winning team around a base of players from a winning international team.

I mean, our most recent success was based on a team of French champions - Henry, Pires, Wiltord, Vieira, Petit - Brazilian flair - Edu, Gilberto Silva, Silvinho - Dutch virtuosity - Bergkamp, Overmars - and English graft - Campbell, Cole, Parlour.

I would be interested to see a Llorente or Navas come in but not sure it will happen (i hope it will). With Martinez moving to Bayern in one of the most protracted transfers seen, will the Basque team play ball and allow smooth negotiations with one of their star players?

AK.Rabona said:
For this reason, I would like Navas as well. He's an excellent player. I've been folliwing him since 2005-06.
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I would love to see Navas in an Arsenal shirt, but i'm worried that keeping Walcott now has scuppered such a chance. Furthermore, Navas' recent mental health issues around travelling away from Seville have prevented him from being a mainstay in the Spanish national team. Would a move from comfortable Seville to London help? I can see another Reyes unfortunately.
 
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