Arsenal Thread

Duran Duran said:
But Arsenal are huge club only third to Liverpool and Man Utd in worldwide appeal.

But they not winning anything for a very long time.

The fans pay the most for a season ticket in the league I have read? I am not 100% on this so please correct me if I am wrong.

The supporters deserve better. Silverware is more important than anything in football.
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The only way to win a trophy is to beat the other teams. The only way to beat the other teams is to be better than them.

Arsenal cannot win the league with City as they are. Personally I think they have the potential to finish above all other teams if injuries and luck go their way, but City's squad is so much better than Arsenal's in every area, they will not win that.

Similarly the CL is probably out of their league.

They could and should try to win the FA Cup and Carling Cup though. But those are cup competitions - anything can happen. Portsmouth won a few seasons ago when every thing went their way.

Arsene has created a team that is competitive with teams that outspend Arsenal. And when the sugar daddy's get bored of losing money, and other clubs simply can't afford to do so, Arsenal will still be standing there, ready to be the best club in the prem. (Alongside United of course ;0)
 
When he says Arsene has created a team that is competitive with teams that outspend Arsenal.

Liverpool, Tottenham, Chelsea out spend us every season for about 7 years. I agree that winning is nearly impossible ,not because City have better players. They manage to weaken other clubs by taking everyone`s average players that are big for their club. It doesn`t even bother me with City. They win ,but no one has respect for them.

If they can win 12 titles and start to make it by 2018. Then, I would say otherwise, for me I love seeing their fans talking the talk 'bluemoon rising' :LOL: They will fade away , but for the next few seasons let them enjoy their moment :WORSHIP:
 
Duran Duran said:
But Arsenal are huge club only third to Liverpool and Man Utd in worldwide appeal.

But they not winning anything for a very long time.

The fans pay the most for a season ticket in the league I have read? I am not 100% on this so please correct me if I am wrong.

The supporters deserve better. Silverware is more important than anything in football.
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I strongly disagree that silverware is the most important thing in football. It is easy when you support a huge team like Inter to say things like that. But how many teams actually win Silverware in each league, the majority of teams don't, if silverware was the most important thing, then nobody would go and see the teams play that have no chance in winning the silverware.

The most important thing to most fans are that your team is trying their best to get to the stage of winning things and laying the foundations for the club.

In Arsenals case in the 90's and early 2000's we were very successful, but the only way to match the Sugar daddy clubs without being one ourselves we had to invest in the future, which was our stadium.

This meant that we had to go through some years of transition, a few steps backwards to have a great leap forward eventually. Rightly our transitional phase has been longer than what a lot of people expect, but at least in our transitional phase we are still able to maintain our status in the top competition in the world (Arguably) and get the revenue from it that is helping us (along with the stadium) slowly but surely build the club up again and be a force.

Over this transitional phase as well, we have come close to Silverware, it isn't as if we have been very far away, we have got to a Champs league final, FA cup final, League cup final and a couple of great league campaigns that fell apart for whatever reasons.

I think Malaga has woken everybody up a bit with Sugar Daddy teams. the clubs are on such a tight rope, if they don't want to invest anymore, then the club will suffer greatly and they will have a big fall. Hopefully by that time, the teams will have built up a big enough fan base to sustain them to some degree, but even so, they still won't be able to afford 250k a week for all of their players and if they are on 5 year deals, when the sugar daddy wants to leave, what happens then?

You said that that Wenger sees making a profit as a trophy, it isn't quite true, but you seem to dismiss the fact that, that is what all clubs should be doing. In the real world if teams don't make a profit, where the hell are they getting their money to spend on players?! So to use that as a negative against Arsenal is not very good either.

I think Arsenal have set themselves up very well, it has taken alot longer than people would have liked sure, but hopefully one day soon, they will be proven right :DD
 
How come we came 3rd ahead of Liverpool and spurs who had a far better squad of players then arsenal? O and ahead of chelsea too
 
Duran Duran said:
But Arsenal are huge club only third to Liverpool and Man Utd in worldwide appeal.

But they not winning anything for a very long time.

The fans pay the most for a season ticket in the league I have read? I am not 100% on this so please correct me if I am wrong.

The supporters deserve better. Silverware is more important than anything in football.
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Sums it up.
 
BobbyBox said:
Good post, I agree :))

The bit at the end as well, if Wenger ever does leave I wouldn't mind seeing him come to us. But to get rid of Wenger and replace him with Moyes (as joeryan wants) that is silly imo.
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Give us some reasons why Wenger should be the manager. I hear all this 'In Arsene We Trust' bollocks all the time, but no one ever seems to give a sound reason why they trust in him. It's usually just blind loyalty, and usually from supporters who came on board after Wenger did.

You don't believe silverware is the most important thing in football. You need to lose this mentality that it's Arsenal v the sugar daddies, we're a rich club, we have the resources to win the title in any given season. It doesn't happen because the owners are concerned with business and not football.
 
Nuri Sahin loan deal looks as good as done.

Word is Jesus Navas is coming in for 15m (according to AS) - if true, Walcott's all but gone.
 
joeryan said:
Give us some reasons why Wenger should be the manager. I hear all this 'In Arsene We Trust' bollocks all the time, but no one ever seems to give a sound reason why they trust in him. It's usually just blind loyalty, and usually from supporters who came on board after Wenger did.

You don't believe silverware is the most important thing in football. You need to lose this mentality that it's Arsenal v the sugar daddies, we're a rich club, we have the resources to win the title in any given season. It doesn't happen because the owners are concerned with business and not football.
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The main reason is I think he is the best man for the Job. I think he has developed a legacy for the club that will keep Arsenal at the top long after Wenger is around and I am around etc.

I think he has done a good job if I look at all of the circumstances, then imo he has done a good job, obviously not great but he has done well, to still be up there with teams that have much more money....which is a major factor in winning things these days, if it wasn't then Chelsea and Man City would not be successful.

We do have money and we are a wealthy club, but we have at least 2 teams in our league that can blow us out of the water with both transfer fees and wages. This heavily effects us winning things.

Imo I think if Wenger goes, then Arsenal will do a lot worse and I would rather we kept him than me say I told you so and we be mid table.

Your views are just highlighted by your attitude to Arsenal concentrating on them being a business. They have to be, your comment makes no sense, all clubs have to and should be doing the same. I have mentioned this all in my post above anyway so you can re read that. People invest millions of their money, they are entitled to see a return on that, also when we make profit, it means we can buy other things, like players and pay their wages. If businesses don't make a profit, they will go bust, it is a simple concept. If you don't follow that concept, then your business will probably fail eventually (Unless you are getting ridiculous money given to you from nowhere, like the sugar daddy clubs).

I don't know if your 'usually said by people that came on board after Arsene Wenger did' comment, was directed at me? but I can assure you I was supporting Arsenal quite a while before Wenger came on board :DD

My loyalty isn't blind to Wenger, I think he has made a lot of mistakes, but I think that the positives he has done totally outweigh the negatives and I can see a positive future for Arsenal with him still as our manager.

And to go against your point, I think most people that have your point of view have only supported Arsenal since they have been winning things and therefore do not realise how lucky we are to have been in that position originally and to be in the position we have been in and hopefully will be in the future.
 
joeryan said:
Give us some reasons why Wenger should be the manager. I hear all this 'In Arsene We Trust' bollocks all the time, but no one ever seems to give a sound reason why they trust in him. It's usually just blind loyalty, and usually from supporters who came on board after Wenger did.

You don't believe silverware is the most important thing in football. You need to lose this mentality that it's Arsenal v the sugar daddies, we're a rich club, we have the resources to win the title in any given season. It doesn't happen because the owners are concerned with business and not football.
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Name me a manager who would have finished top 3 last year against the shit team we had last year with only one or two world class players in it.
 
BobbyBox said:
The main reason is I think he is the best man for the Job. I think he has developed a legacy for the club that will keep Arsenal at the top long after Wenger is around and I am around etc.
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This.
How many managers leave such a legacy behind? During his time, Arsene Wenger transformed the club. You can't name anyone after Herbert Chapman who has done so much for Arsenal. The stadium probably wouldn't have been possible without Wenger at the helm.
Not only that, but he is loyal to Arsenal. You have managers today like Mourinho who are much like whores - they might win stuff at the clubs, but just look at the budget he has worked with at Chelsea, Inter and Real Madrid. And then they leave after 2 or 3 seasons. And then what did he leave behind??
When Wenger renewed his contract with Arsenal, with the stadium being built and the debt and difficulties that would inevitably arise, he stuck by our side. He is now getting all the stick that he probably knew he would get. Many others, like Mourinho, would have preferred to leave while at the top and say "my job is done here". But Wenger is with us through thick and thin. And very thin indeed, I can't think of any other manager who would have given us Champions League football for 7 consecutive seasons with such financial constrictions.
And after this period of difficulties, he will leave the club in a very healthy state for his successor. As I said, this is very unselfish from him and the next man to get the job will have a much easier life. Wenger is standing up to it and facing the fire right now and hats off to him for that.

There's a lot of stuff we don't know that's going on behind the curtains, but Wenger is the one sticking his neck out.
Fans are in their right to be angry for paying for the most expensive ticket in the Premier League while the quality doesn't reflect those prices. But they should be angry at Silent Stan, Ivan Gazidis and the board members. Pinning it on Wenger is unfair IMO. He's doing really good with what we've got.

What I love about Wenger is that he is a man of principle, he wants to do things the right way, even if against all odds in this crooked football business of today. It gets to the point where he's naive at times, but you can't fault him for his character and integrity.

People who are not happy about Arsenal not competing for Prem and CL titles should be wishing for something else other than sacking Wenger. People better hope then for a Sheikh to take over the club, because that's the only way the club would be spending on par with City and Chelsea. The problem is clearly not the manager and sacking Wenger is not the answer.
 
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BobbyBox said:
I strongly disagree that silverware is the most important thing in football. It is easy when you support a huge team like Inter to say things like that.
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When you have Arsenals pedigree, history and tradition of winning silverware, the big stadium and the mega expensive season tickets, you need to be winning trophies.

Same goes for all big clubs like mine, the Madrids of this world, the Man Utds of this world, the Bayern Munichs of this world...we need to be winning silverware, end of story.

No-one expects the like of Port Vale or Willem II to win silverware because they dont have infrastructure or expensive season ticket.

the most famous teams with biggest followings in England are:

1. Man Utd
2. Liverpool
3. Arsenal


You really need to be winning stuff as do Man Utd and Liverpool. Fans demand this when you are one of 'big boys'

:))
 
Duran Duran said:
When you have Arsenals pedigree, history and tradition of winning silverware, the big stadium and the mega expensive season tickets, you need to be winning trophies.

Same goes for all big clubs like mine, the Madrids of this world, the Man Utds of this world, the Bayern Munichs of this world...we need to be winning silverware, end of story.

No-one expects the like of Port Vale or Willem II to win silverware because they dont have infrastructure or expensive season ticket.

the most famous teams with biggest followings in England are:

1. Man Utd
2. Liverpool
3. Arsenal


You really need to be winning stuff as do Man Utd and Liverpool. Fans demand this when you are one of 'big boys'

:))
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Same could be said about Inter until Calciopoli happened.. you guys only really emerged after that and from there you dominated. You cannot expect a club to win all the time, I don't support Juventus because we just win. I think Wenger is the perfect man for the job as well, he has created a work culture, a tradition for Arsenal and I think when Arsenal do bring home that trophy it will mean so much more to their fans because they actually did it without spending chunks of money.
 
Duran Duran said:
When you have Arsenals pedigree, history and tradition of winning silverware, the big stadium and the mega expensive season tickets, you need to be winning trophies.

Same goes for all big clubs like mine, the Madrids of this world, the Man Utds of this world, the Bayern Munichs of this world...we need to be winning silverware, end of story.

No-one expects the like of Port Vale or Willem II to win silverware because they dont have infrastructure or expensive season ticket.

the most famous teams with biggest followings in England are:

1. Man Utd
2. Liverpool
3. Arsenal


You really need to be winning stuff as do Man Utd and Liverpool. Fans demand this when you are one of 'big boys'

:))
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I think at most other clubs if a manager doesn't win things for a couple of years, then they will get the boot (clubs as big as Arsenal and above, even clubs that aren't as 'big')

This shows that there is much more to football than Silverware and why Arsenal supporters are not protesting and wanting Wenger out. Because they see the bigger picture, they are not as narrow minded as to think we should be winning things every year, there are too many teams out there to think that will happen.

We need to be in the champions league to demand those season ticket prices and playing the best teams in the world and still have a competitive teamalong with being enjoyable to watch (Hopefully). Spurs most expensive season ticket is only £100 less than ours and what have they done? they have a shitter stadium, less success, they aren't in the champions League etc

I think Arsenal did take things for granted when we were winning things on a consistant basis and as matt said when we do win something now, it will mean so much more.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to be winning and have won stuff for the last 7 years, but I don't just expect it because we are a 'big' club and I can understand the reasons we haven't and I don't think they are necessarily Wengers fault and I feel he can get us back to winning ways.
 
So if it's not Wenger's fault, who does the buck stop with?

Wenger to me seems to be living in his own little bubble where a top 4 finish is 'success'

Half of Arsenal supporter now accept this whilst other half want the old days back....the glory days where you challenge for league title and FA Cup every season.
 
Duran Duran said:
So if it's not Wenger's fault, who does the buck stop with?

Wenger to me seems to be living in his own little bubble where a top 4 finish is 'success'

Half of Arsenal supporter now accept this whilst other half want the old days back....the glory days where you challenge for league title and FA Cup every season.
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The stadium, the sugar daddies, bad luck, lots of injuries, recession all along with bad decisions by Wenger that we can all criticize with hindsight.

It is a mixture of things that have meant we haven't won anything for the past 7 years.

Anyway, I have said my piece these conversations go around in circles all of the time.
 
Fair enough Bobby....I respect your opinion as its your club after all what do I know ;)

But I personally feel that Wenger has outstayed his position and its getting stale now....his infamous '10 year plan' hasnt come to fruitition

Money has ruined the game of course....Man City, Chelsea, Anzhi and PSG were nothing before one man came along and threw a lot of cash at the clubs. It is all meaningless though they didnt earn their success IMO - it was bought but this is Arsenal thread so not the place for that chat.
 
Duran Duran said:
So if it's not Wenger's fault, who does the buck stop with?

Wenger to me seems to be living in his own little bubble where a top 4 finish is 'success'

Half of Arsenal supporter now accept this whilst other half want the old days back....the glory days where you challenge for league title and FA Cup every season.
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Arsenal's dominance ended when Abramovich completely fubar'd the league. City doing the same thing a few years later just compounded the issue.

I don't understand what you don't understand. City and Chelsea operate in a completely different reality from Arsenal.

United are only up there because Ferguson is a f*cking genuis, and Arsenal are next in line - because of Wenger.

It's really simple.
 
I understand perfectly thanks Beachryan. We all know money is ruining the game....but Wenger should have gone a season ago IMO.

Obviously just my opinion. But manager has to take most the blame for failings, surely?
 
Duran Duran said:
I understand perfectly thanks Beachryan. We all know money is ruining the game....but Wenger should have gone a season ago IMO.

Obviously just my opinion. But manager has to take most the blame for failings, surely?
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What failings? That's my point. Wenger got Arsenal to 3rd last season. He was only beaten by Mancini and Ferguson.

What else do you expect from the man?
 
To win trophies. Arsenal are 3rd biggest club in English football.

Am I really having to repeat myself here??
 
Duran Duran said:
I understand perfectly thanks Beachryan. We all know money is ruining the game....but Wenger should have gone a season ago IMO.

Obviously just my opinion. But manager has to take most the blame for failings, surely?
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Again I will ask. Who would do a better job then wenger with this current arsenal side and money restrictions?
 
Duran, you're contradicting yourself. Arsenal are unable to win a trophy (in England) because of the imbalance created by Chelsea and Manchester City. So that is a failure to you? Wenger has to take the blame for the impossibly high standards set by the financial doping of Chelsea and City?
 
jonneymendoza said:
Again I will ask. Who would do a better job then wenger with this current arsenal side and money restrictions?
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I don't know Jonny. You tell us as you were asking for Wengers head a hell of a lot last season! Saying he had to go etc. The above statement sounds as though you are backing him now. Fickle?
 
Very well lads it seems we well and trully fucked up the Sahin deal. He's bound to be announced by Liverpool.

Word on Twatter is that Sahin earns 120k Euros a week and Arsenal were willing to pay 60% of that. Liverpool apparently offered to pay for 70%.

Well if all of this is true, we have to rethink a lot of things.

Firstly, if we just sold Song Billabong for 15m and still think can play hardball and refuse to pay 12k a week more to a player we badly need, with 1 week to go till the transfer deadline... then we're in a very bad place indeed.

Secondly, when you want to sign on loan a player who only makes the bench in Real Madrid, yet he earns more than our top earners at Arsenal, it gives you an idea of the problem.

Arsenal has to join the madness a bit, at least on salaries. It's bad, I know, but there's no other way. We cannot have that £90k a week ceiling anymore. Players are leaving because of money firstly, then the lack of trophies. We need to pay more to attract better players and start winning something again.

So that's that. This Sahin deal has gone down the shitter, and maybe it wasn't because we refused to pay more after all... Maybe the player or Mourinho (or both) acted like twats and Wenger was put off. Who knows.
 
Liverpool pays their players alot I`m not sure why. Anyways ,I can only assume Wenger maybe pulled out to get a player that will stay. Good for Liverpool, they need all the help.
 
I was under the impression that Arsenal actually had a relatively high wage bill? Obviously not up there with City/Chelsea, but higher than Liverpool and Tottenham.

Anywho, missing out. Great player that should never have gone to Madrid. I hate these loan scenarios, personally.
 
Arsenal's quite strange with their wages, I think their low earners get in the region of 25 to 50K and the top earners in a 70 to 90K. The bottom of the barrel earn too much with the top players not being anywhere near what the rest of Europe give.
 
YoungGun_UK said:
Arsenal's quite strange with their wages, I think their low earners get in the region of 25 to 50K and the top earners in a 70 to 90K. The bottom of the barrel earn too much with the top players not being anywhere near what the rest of Europe give.
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That's about right. Some players like Denilson are on £35-40k, Diaby on £40-45k, Bendtner must be on about, £50k, and Squilaci on £60k! :SHOCK:
A player like Arshavin, for example, who came with a high profile (and already earned a lot before at Zenit) had to be "accommodated" at £80k a week... and now we're trying to get rid of him.
I think only Van Persie and Fabregas reached the £90k a week mark, that being our ceiling.
This is already crazy money if you ask me, but unfortunately football is too much out of touch with reality, and comparing with other top teams in Europe this is far from enough.

I'd rather have a "Zidanes and Pavons" policy at Arsenal, whereas Wenger could quickly sort out the salaries of players who show something special.

What he did though, was keeping a "low" ceiling for top earners and putting almost everybody else above £40k. Wage structure is flat, maybe in an attempt to create a better environment, less intrigue and egos clashing... but whatever it is, it didn't work and needs to be changed.
 
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